We all know changes are going to be made. But where?

[engie]

A coach would have to lose his freaking mind to sign on with JoMo now. He will be one and done.

Correct. We're going to lose the guys good enough to have other options and replace them with guys with no other options. The only exception being the MS guys/recruiters who have a pretty good shot of being retained by the next staff possibly staying.

 

[tatedog]

Remember the cast of characters Jackie assembled for his last season? A bunch of retread, wash out, ex-head coaches. And that was the rebuild staff an established coach was able to get.

 

[Shamoan]

i get why folks are leery of that hire, but at the same time, he helped produce some tremendous athletes as individuals and he is definitely Power 5 quality. we let him walk because we are scared on his association with the enemy and seeing him for years on the sidelines being an OM douche. i get it, but shame on us for our lack of action.

 

[travis.sixpack]

His act doesn’t work at any P5 school.

 

[Seinfeld]

Yeah, I get that we brought Joe here to accomplish a very specific task, but he’s failed miserably at that task, and he hasn’t recruited the required ingredients for his recipe to be a success in 2020 either.

I keep wanting to believe that our administration isn’t so unbelievably incompetent that they’d think this formula would miraculously work given another year, but I’m losing faith by the day

 

[Ibdancin]

I've never seen the program this difficult to pull for. It's at the most frustrating level it has ever been for me.

I know the football program has been at much lower points in terms of year to year results. But this year, it's frustrating because we've seen this program build the last decade. And in two short years, it is at risk. We play below our talent level and light up a statistical chart as an extreme outlier in terrible ways. We gave up 8 touchdowns in 11 games last year and lost 3 (exclude bama). Has that happened since 1970?

The basketball program is still recovering from apathy. Don't let it happen to football.

The issue is reality. Some fans want to rewrite the history. Some want to live in the distant path. Reality is we are in between those.

Despite what some of the extremes want to say, when facts are talked about we have truth. No matter what, we will never rewrite the fact that Mullen had horrible years. You just can't. If we are going to make excuses for him, then you have to allow them for Moorhead. Truth is truth.

Mullen had 2009, 2011, 2013, 2016 all were bad years. That's 4 out of the 9 years he was here. Either those years are facts, or they are not. Every excuse or reality offered is one that has to be allowed for Moorhead. You simply can not have it both ways.

The only difference in this is that Moorhead has not had the opportunity for a 7th and 8th year to have a losing regular season like Mullen.

Let's just be honest.

There is no denying that Mullen had to implement his offense. Equally, there is no denying that Moorhead has to implement his. A major difference was the defense. Mullen left a defense in year 1 that was good! Moorhead's staff took them to great. It's just as true that under Mullen, Dak had the WRs and Tes to make him the best MSU has had. It's also true that Fitz, under Mullen, did not.

Had Fitz had those guys, then maybe he would have been a better passer. But he didn't. That's under Mullen. Why would anybody expect it to be better under Moorhead's first year? It's not like he had a massive influence on recruiting and was able to bring in game changers at the WR position.

On the extreme opposite side, some people think we are the pre Jackie era dawgs. We are not. We should not accept a losing regular season, and truthfully we should expect and demand wins over Ole Miss, Ark, Tamu, UK, and Vandy. That is where we are when a coach has been in position long enough that the roster is his.

I come from that middle ground. I know what Mullen left us because it is recorded. I'm not going to rewrite history for Moorhead either. I know what he has recruited and it's time to see what our money has purchased. Either prove it, or lose it.

 

[Ibdancin]

Yeah, I get that we brought Joe here to accomplish a very specific task, but he’s failed miserably at that task, and he hasn’t recruited the required ingredients for his recipe to be a success in 2020 either.

I keep wanting to believe that our administration isn’t so unbelievably incompetent that they’d think this formula would miraculously work given another year, but I’m losing faith by the day

I can't disagree or agree. Only time will will tell. But on paper, it should be and is why I am saying this is it:
- QB that's a 4 star who got a lot of experience.
- 5 star OT
- 4 star OT
- returning WR Mitchell
- 2 x 4 star Wrs
- 4 star RBs and what was the top RB in the nation

There is a lot of inexperience there, but the offense has to move forward. If not, 3 years is enough.

The defense should be a top 30. They were 60ish and that is with all of the suspensions and injuries.

BTW.. Who is the girl in the avatar?

 

[engie]

When Mullen got here we had a $30mil athletics dept. JoeMo will have 4x that next year. Let's not compare those two as apples to apples. We are no longer what our history previously defined us as.

The issue is reality. Some fans want to rewrite the history. Some want to live in the distant path. Reality is we are in between those.

Despite what some of the extremes want to say, when facts are talked about we have truth. No matter what, we will never rewrite the fact that Mullen had horrible years. You just can't. If we are going to make excuses for him, then you have to allow them for Moorhead. Truth is truth.

Mullen had 2009, 2011, 2013, 2016 all were bad years. That's 4 out of the 9 years he was here. Either those years are facts, or they are not. Every excuse or reality offered is one that has to be allowed for Moorhead. You simply can not have it both ways.

The only difference in this is that Moorhead has not had the opportunity for a 7th and 8th year to have a losing regular season like Mullen.

Let's just be honest.

There is no denying that Mullen had to implement his offense. Equally, there is no denying that Moorhead has to implement his. A major difference was the defense. Mullen left a defense in year 1 that was good! Moorhead's staff took them to great. It's just as true that under Mullen, Dak had the WRs and Tes to make him the best MSU has had. It's also true that Fitz, under Mullen, did not.

Had Fitz had those guys, then maybe he would have been a better passer. But he didn't. That's under Mullen. Why would anybody expect it to be better under Moorhead's first year? It's not like he had a massive influence on recruiting and was able to bring in game changers at the WR position.

On the extreme opposite side, some people think we are the pre Jackie era dawgs. We are not. We should not accept a losing regular season, and truthfully we should expect and demand wins over Ole Miss, Ark, Tamu, UK, and Vandy. That is where we are when a coach has been in position long enough that the roster is his.

I come from that middle ground. I know what Mullen left us because it is recorded. I'm not going to rewrite history for Moorhead either. I know what he has recruited and it's time to see what our money has purchased. Either prove it, or lose it.

 

[Carbaryl]

There's some truth to that. Some non truths.

We hired him to move the offense to an RPO and to open things up more. He's not going to do anything other than transition to that. At the same time, he is the head coach. He is responsible for his product on the field. So as a HC, you do what's required.

If not............... bye

Thomas are you okay?You had a meltdown on 247.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Hopefully Moorhead and quickly. If he is still here next season, it will be sad.

 

[josebrown]

I can't believe I'm actually going to say this, but Ron Polk did warn us.

No you didn't! Yes he did!.....17! 17! 17!

 

[josebrown]

It was epic too...

 

[WutheringDawg]

Even in Mullen’s down years you could point to aspects of the team and see demonstrable improvement. There is not one single position group or phase of the game that feels like it’s getting better. And Mullen never had a sustained offensive drought like the beginning of Moorhead’s tenure. In down years it felt like we were building and the following season usually bore that out.

Moorhead has been going in one direction. And that is down (with a swiftness).

 

[olblue.sixpack]

I was watching some post game interviews and listening to some talking heads last night and today. We have known that Moorhead will make changes to his staff within the next 3 weeks. There's some chatter and some people excited about it. Me, I'm a wait and see kinda guy.

Here is the staff:

- Moorhead
- Hughes
- Richardson
- Deke
- Buckley
- Johnson
- Johnson
- Briener
- Shoop
- Jones
- Marve (already gone)

Let's despense with the "moorhead is gone... needs to be gone... must go.... it don't matter as long as". He is here. There are changes being made. The question is who is leaving and who are we getting?

- Jones... I would love to see him gone. But who do we replace him with? We have to find somebody. Nothing worse than watching a DII program have better ST play.

- Marve. He's gone. So who do you put in his place?

- Breiner. With the talent we have at that position, we need a guy that can excel here.

- OC.... I believe this will be added. I hope it's somebody from a passing background. I like Brian Smith, Mike Bobo...etc Bobo took over a passing game that was 50-60 and in 2 years had a passing offense ranked #15, 13, 20 and has ties to Georgia.

Anyway, let's hear it. Who you got in and out?

I’ll take who is Thomas 1096 on Sixpack for $500, Alex.

 

[Todd4State]

The issue is reality. Some fans want to rewrite the history. Some want to live in the distant path. Reality is we are in between those.

Despite what some of the extremes want to say, when facts are talked about we have truth. No matter what, we will never rewrite the fact that Mullen had horrible years. You just can't. If we are going to make excuses for him, then you have to allow them for Moorhead. Truth is truth.

Mullen had 2009, 2011, 2013, 2016 all were bad years. That's 4 out of the 9 years he was here. Either those years are facts, or they are not. Every excuse or reality offered is one that has to be allowed for Moorhead. You simply can not have it both ways.

The only difference in this is that Moorhead has not had the opportunity for a 7th and 8th year to have a losing regular season like Mullen.

Let's just be honest.

There is no denying that Mullen had to implement his offense. Equally, there is no denying that Moorhead has to implement his. A major difference was the defense. Mullen left a defense in year 1 that was good! Moorhead's staff took them to great. It's just as true that under Mullen, Dak had the WRs and Tes to make him the best MSU has had. It's also true that Fitz, under Mullen, did not.

Had Fitz had those guys, then maybe he would have been a better passer. But he didn't. That's under Mullen. Why would anybody expect it to be better under Moorhead's first year? It's not like he had a massive influence on recruiting and was able to bring in game changers at the WR position.

On the extreme opposite side, some people think we are the pre Jackie era dawgs. We are not. We should not accept a losing regular season, and truthfully we should expect and demand wins over Ole Miss, Ark, Tamu, UK, and Vandy. That is where we are when a coach has been in position long enough that the roster is his.

I come from that middle ground. I know what Mullen left us because it is recorded. I'm not going to rewrite history for Moorhead either. I know what he has recruited and it's time to see what our money has purchased. Either prove it, or lose it.

The biggest difference is our team culture is pitiful under Joe. I just paid a lot of hard earned money and bent backwards to get off work to watch a bunch of guys that were fighting each other in bowl prep and several more who were suspended for who knows what not to mention going to watch a team that had 10 players suspended for cheating on freshman chemistry.

And then those 17ers have the gall to get on Twitter and call fans out for being upset with them over their foolishness?

If our team could have acted halfway like a decent team and played hard and with effort I could stomach 6-7 a LOT better than I can with this coaching staff. Like Dan in 2013 went 7-6 and there were issues with special teams that year and other things but they played reasonably hard and with effort that was respectable. Heck- Dak played like a day after his mother passed away. And then the Egg Bowl- Dak came in off the bench even though he's hurt. Most of our current players would sit out because "I gotta business decision".

That's my biggest frustration and why I don't think Joe will turn it around. He allows way too much and doesn't have control of the team. It's really hard to get that back- and pretty close to impossible. Most of us know that- which is why we're all frustrated that he's staying because we all know from experience in our lives- probably leading people in whatever it is we do- that it's NOT going to work. Changing assistant coaches is only going to improve things marginally.

This year we have had someone suspended at EVERY position group for at least a quarter except for TE. Yep- our kicker was suspended for the first game.

If Joe would have done what Dan did in 2013 and 2016 by showing our fans what the future holds with our QB showing out in the bowl game which is what SHOULD have happened this year except for our dumbass LB broke the guys orbital bone- we have this to sit with all offseason.

And IF it was ever like that under Dan our fans would be reacting the same way. Ask Rick Stansbury after the Hawaii fight.