Three Thoughts for Ohio State

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

1. Douc has to start ... I cringe a bit at that but it’s clear to me now that Myles has to come off the bench for maximum effectiveness.
2. Jacob young is shooting 42.9 percent from three and has taken ten fewer three point shots than Montez Mathis. I’d like to see Montez shoot less and Jacob shoot a few more.
3. Finally, while I’m pleased as anyone at our start, it does seem our group of ballyhooed freshmen (save Cliff) are not ready for prime time at all. I love Pike and he might (deservedly) be coach of the year but that’s on him - he needed to bring in a grad transfer 4/5 who was solid defensively this year. We are skating on thin ice.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

1) No to Douc starting. Myles has to be out there and avoid bad fouls from tip-off to final buzzer with not a lot of rests-I think he will.
2) Yes.
3) Yes--we needed a transfer 4/5 in the offseason.

 

[kcg88]

Grad transfers aren't looking to become a depth piece, they want to go somewhere they can start or a top top program. Pikiell can be the best recruiter in the world and it doesn't matter as soon as the guy looks at our roster and sees Myles and a top-50 recruit at his position. Additionally, the grad transfer market is always guard and wing heavy.

 

[RUBOB72]

1. Douc has to start ... I cringe a bit at that but it’s clear to me now that Myles has to come off the bench for maximum effectiveness.
2. Jacob young is shooting 42.9 percent from three and has taken ten fewer three point shots than Montez Mathis. I’d like to see Montez shoot less and Jacob shoot a few more.
3. Finally, while I’m pleased as anyone at our start, it does seem our group of ballyhooed freshmen (save Cliff) are not ready for prime time at all. I love Pike and he might (deservedly) be coach of the year but that’s on him - he needed to bring in a grad transfer 4/5 who was solid defensively this year. We are skating on thin ice.

I always wait to see what negative type post you will inject into anything positive regarding Rutgers sports. You knock Pike ... now he’s still not at the top but the man has completely transformed this program... same as Schiano will do and several of our coaches have already done.The only thing you got correct is JY shooting ( and we have to be careful here) a few more 3’s... as far as the newbies Mag and Cliff have done “ pretty ok to”.... the others lack the OOC schedule which drastically elevated their understanding and play... Douc has to start ? In whose world does that work?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Young has been in good in his last 7 3 point attempts. Not sure about his last 200.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

1) No to Douc starting. Myles has to be out there and avoid bad fouls from tip-off to final buzzer with not a lot of rests-I think he will.
2) Yes.
3) Yes--we needed a transfer 4/5 in the offseason.

If Douc doesn’t start ohio state he will end up playing more minutes than we want him too because Myles will get into foul trouble quick.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

I always wait to see what negative type post you will inject into anything positive regarding Rutgers sports. You knock Pike ... now he’s still not at the top but the man has completely transformed this program... same as Schiano will do and several of our coaches have already done.The only thing you got correct is JY shooting ( and we have to be careful here) a few more 3’s... as far as the newbies Mag and Cliff have done “ pretty ok to”.... the others lack the OOC schedule which drastically elevated their understanding and play... Douc has to start ? In whose world does that work?

The newbies did not do pretty okay. There wasn’t one game that anyone did anything special or flashed Big Ten potential. That could change of course but to say they were okay is an exaggeration of exponential proportions.
I’m knocking pike for ONE THING. The front court depth is a concern. Douc hasn’t developed and Rieber isn’t ready. Maybe I will be surprised.

 

[RUBOB72]

The newbies did not do pretty okay. There wasn’t one game that anyone did anything special or flashed Big Ten potential. That could change of course but to say they were okay is an exaggeration of exponential proportions.
I’m knocking pike for ONE THING. The front court depth is a concern. Douc hasn’t developed and Rieber isn’t ready. Maybe I will be surprised.

Those two have played “pretty ok to” ... no you knock them... the new players... the coach... Douc was always going to be a project and sometime everybody realizes you take whatever positives than can contribute. If Caleb was good to go ... it’s not a true concern... Cliff will get back ...Mag will be back... it is what it is... life in sports.

 

[RU677381]

1. Douc has to start ... I cringe a bit at that but it’s clear to me now that Myles has to come off the bench for maximum effectiveness.
2. Jacob young is shooting 42.9 percent from three and has taken ten fewer three point shots than Montez Mathis. I’d like to see Montez shoot less and Jacob shoot a few more.
3. Finally, while I’m pleased as anyone at our start, it does seem our group of ballyhooed freshmen (save Cliff) are not ready for prime time at all. I love Pike and he might (deservedly) be coach of the year but that’s on him - he needed to bring in a grad transfer 4/5 who was solid defensively this year. We are skating on thin ice.

Agree with you about myle# not starting. Good post!

 

[kcg88]

Mag, Palmquist, and Reiber have demonstrated basically basketball competency. I don't think if we play Oskar for 7 minutes and Reiber for 4 against Ohio State it will impact our chance of winning that much. If we needed them for 10-15 each we'd have problems.

Palmquist had 3 rebounds and 2 assists in 11 minutes against Syracuse. That's all we need. Hoist up one or two open three pointers (not 4 like against Syracuse) and hope he hits one.

 

[RAC’emUp]

Myles must start and play as much as possible. I have no idea why Pike starts Cliff over Myles but it is most certainly not because Myles doesn’t know to watch the fouls. Starting Duke is a preposterous idea.

 

[red sail]

If Big Cliff is hurt or out for the game, I don’t mind Doucourre starting. He’s played for pike for 3 years now. I’d rather see Myles in the game down the stretch and not have to foul out early. Teams know by now to go right at Myles right away hoping for him to get into foul trouble early.

 

[RUBOB72]

Well with this I agree totally... it does Myles and us no good at all. It is time he learns as he will have to at the next level playing with fouls... This hide and protect thinking does not work .He could sit the first 3-5 minutes ... come in and get 2 fouls in the next 5 so where does it benefit the team... but hey that’s my belief ... Pike will have to decide and I believe we will learn to overcome some adversity early in the run to the NCAA tourney.

 

[bac2therac]

Myles must start period and he is very capable of playing without fouling as he has shown this year. Doucoure and Palmquist dont have to do much except give minutes and give some fouls here or there. What is disappointing is that Doucoure went from starting a good number of games his freshmen year to being an non entity on the court. He is a pretty big miss on the recruiting trail for Pike and thats why with a couple men down we find ourselves in this position. It happens at every program.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

Myles must start period and he is very capable of playing without fouling as he has shown this year. Doucoure and Palmquist dont have to do much except give minutes and give some fouls here or there. What is disappointing is that Doucoure went from starting a good number of games his freshmen year to being an non entity on the court. He is a pretty big miss on the recruiting trail for Pike and thats why with a couple men down we find ourselves in this position. It happens at every program.

Agree on Douc miss but still thinks he has to start. Would love to have low ceiling high floor kind of big man that would be serviceable in these situations.

 

[Rutgers25]

Starting Doucoure only makes sense if you buy into belief that refs are overzealous with calling fouls at the start of the game and then back down after a few minutes. No idea if this is true, but is a theory I’ve heard from somebody on this board.

 

[RUDead]

Myles will start and Douc will be fine. He will miss a couple defensive switches like he always does but will play hard and rebounded. He's good for a third string center.

Pike needs to get some other guys into the rotation or we are going to wear down quick.

 

[Eagleton95.99]

Sometimes the refs just have an early foul or two in them for the post play, just to establish themselves. Let someone else grab that foul and then bring in Myles.

 

[Rokodesh]

Myles must start and play as much as possible. I have no idea why Pike starts Cliff over Myles but it is most certainly not because Myles doesn’t know to watch the fouls. Starting Duke is a preposterous idea.

Starting Cliff helps him start off in the flow of the game versus coming cold off the bench. If you start Myles and he picks up two quick fouls it's a nightmare situation for us.
We can start the game running the offense through Young and Ron and just keep Cliff in to defend the paint in rebound. Most teams don't have a second wave coming in as good as Myles. So it creates a mismatch. He ends up playing most of the game anyway while speeding up Cliff's development.

 

[80RU]

Starting Douc will allow Johnson to see how the game is being called. He has become pretty good at adjusting his play in line with how much contact the refs are tolerating. This is a new skill for him this year.

 

[RUB1GTime]

The biggest concern for me in this game is fatigue. We beat a tough Illinois team while using seven players and only have two off days before traveling out to Columbus. Ohio State has an extra off day while also staying home. We are going to need more bench contributions in this game for sure.

 

[RUBOB72]

The biggest concern for me in this game is fatigue. We beat a tough Illinois team while using seven players and only have two off days before traveling out to Columbus. Ohio State has an extra off day while also staying home. We are going to need more bench contributions in this game for sure.

If it were mid season I would be more concerned about the fatigue factor... I see your concern but I think it’s unwarranted ... these are skilled athletes... highly conditioned ... and have only played 6 games so far...2 1/2 days should be enough rest early in the year... 7-8 in the rotation with some help from Oskar , Doucore and Reiber should help if only to give us a good 5-7 minutes each... Might as well start the process of B1G time BB.

 

[Scarlet Knut]

I have mixed feelings about Myles not starting. I was totally in favor of him starting at the beginning of the year, but 6 & 0 is hard to argue with.

 

[KingOfTheEast]

Ya know what...Douc has been around for the turn around...let him see some minutes and get involved...he signed on when we were a fraction of what we are now...let's reward him a bit

 

[Arizona Knight]

Myles is starting to (finally) get some respect from the refs. They are letting him play this year so far as opposed to what seemed like hazing by the refs in the last couple of years. He is a legit name in the league now so hopefully he can stay on the floor as long as his lungs allow.

 

[RU677381]

Myles must start period and he is very capable of playing without fouling as he has shown this year. Doucoure and Palmquist dont have to do much except give minutes and give some fouls here or there. What is disappointing is that Doucoure went from starting a good number of games his freshmen year to being an non entity on the court. He is a pretty big miss on the recruiting trail for Pike and thats why with a couple men down we find ourselves in this position. It happens at every program.

Disagree strongly. If Myles happens to pick up a foul in the first few minutes, it either forces the coach to take him out immediately or to take the chance that he will be able to withstand Ohio State's non stop attempts to give him a second foul before the half. Better to take chances with Doucoure and/or perhaps Rieber and see what happens. It cannot, hopefully, be much worse than Kofi taking Cliff to the cleaners in the first few minutes of the last game.

No one can argue about Doucoure not developing into the calibre of player we expected. That being said, my recollection is that he reclassified so he could start early, probably not helpful. Also, in the
first year he was thrust into the starter's role when he was in effect a high school senior. He really hasn't had a full chance to develop and not all his fault.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

3) most guys aren’t “B1G” game ready 4 or 6 games into their careers.

...injuries to Cliff and Mo should get one of them some VALUABLE PT, however, these next few games.

There are upperclassman on the roster right now who didn’t take the world by storm the first 10 to 15 games, or more, their freshman year.

 

[zebnatto]

I’d start Douc. Wonder if Pike will continue to have Geo come in off the bench. Geo and Myles are quite a pair to bring in at the 16 minute mark.

 

[RAC’emUp]

Starting Cliff helps him start off in the flow of the game versus coming cold off the bench. If you start Myles and he picks up two quick fouls it's a nightmare situation for us.
We can start the game running the offense through Young and Ron and just keep Cliff in to defend the paint in rebound. Most teams don't have a second wave coming in as good as Myles. So it creates a mismatch. He ends up playing most of the game anyway while speeding up Cliff's development.

Or we can fall way behind because Cliff can’t handle Kofi. Myles has gotten over the fouling problem. Time to start the best players and come out of the gate strong.

 

[RAC’emUp]

I’d start Douc. Wonder if Pike will continue to have Geo come in off the bench. Geo and Myles are quite a pair to bring in at the 16 minute mark.

Quite a pair to start too.

 

[RUich]

1. We have to worry about early fouls on Myles. if we lose him or he has to spend too much time on the bench, we will be giving up a lot. Rotate the other "bigs" within the game so he doesn't get tired. If we have a decent lead, let him get a breather while giving some needed minutes to the others. They will not get better any faster than having to play.
2, Love Young's motor and drive, but he still tries to go end to end too much I think. If he is hitting threes, let him lose.
3. Time for Baker to really make his presence known. His ankle is healed by the looks of it and it will take some of the focus off the others.

 

[RUHouston]

3) most guys aren’t “B1G” game ready 4 or 6 games into their careers.

...injuries to Cliff and Mo should get one of them some VALUABLE PT, however, these next few games.

There are upperclassman on the roster right now who didn’t take the world by storm the first 10 to 15 games, or more, their freshman year.

Great points! And don't forget the frosh are playing against some really, really good players on their own team...steel sharpens steel (or whatever the saying is...) Rieber and Oskar may have to get some minutes to help out...

As far as center, I think we have some talent to combat other bigs in the league...if Paul can do what he did for limited time against one of the best, physical centers in Kofi, then we're not as "sky is falling" as some may believe, or think, we are!

 

[wheezer]

3. Finally, while I’m pleased as anyone at our start, it does seem our group of ballyhooed freshmen (save Cliff) are not ready for prime time at all. I love Pike and he might (deservedly) be coach of the year but that’s on him - he needed to bring in a grad transfer 4/5 who was solid defensively this year. We are skating on thin ice.

1) we are currently the number 11 team in the country, coming from the depths of the division one bb

2) Pike has said that the current frosh class is the best class
he has brought in so far....If he is any judge of talent, the
problems you see for the future may not happen

3) in the past we were forced to play freshmen like a Reiber, Mags or Palmquist early on, major minutes due to the
lack of depth......this year we are settling in with a basic
seven for the tough games, and letting the youngsters
get a few minutes here and there....

again, he has said this is his best class...I trust that to mean
these three others will shine eventually

I’d start Douc. Wonder if Pike will continue to have Geo come in off the bench. Geo and Myles are quite a pair to bring in at the 16 minute mark.

in the end, Duke will probably play 7 or 8 minutes, Johnson the rest..... the coach could go either way as to the starter...it will be interesting to see which way he goes.

my guess is that he starts Johnson, but would pull him after the first early foul if it happens.....coach could gamble that
he doesn't foul at all in the first half, and we get off to a much better start in the game.

 

[RUBOB72]

Disagree strongly. If Myles happens to pick up a foul in the first few minutes, it either forces the coach to take him out immediately or to take the chance that he will be able to withstand Ohio State's non stop attempts to give him a second foul before the half. Better to take chances with Doucoure and/or perhaps Rieber and see what happens. It cannot, hopefully, be much worse than Kofi taking Cliff to the cleaners in the first few minutes of the last game.

No one can argue about Doucoure not developing into the calibre of player we expected. That being said, my recollection is that he reclassified so he could start early, probably not helpful. Also, in the
first year he was thrust into the starter's role when he was in effect a high school senior. He really hasn't had a full chance to develop and not all his fault.

Your thinking from the negative before anyone steps on the floor... all of us coaches need to remember Pike is going to be the guy to decide who starts and who comes off the bench...Just enjoy the game and root for the team in Red... oh wait they’re both Red...

 

[RUDieHard]

I think you stick with what's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Start Douc or Palmquist/Reiber and see what happens.

Also, matchups matter. I believe OSU plays Zed Key at center (he's only 6'8). We can get by with one of the above for 4 minutes until Myles checks in.

 

[kapyoche]

For Rutgers to win this one, they have to get ahead. I don't think we can come back and win when we are missing so many players. Without Cliff, Myles would not be that effective. So the main piece of our success puzzle is Cliff.

 

[Big boy stan]

I actually like the idea of Douc starting over Myles. Douc is an experienced player that has not lived up to his promise. Coach him up so he knows his role going into the game and so he knows he is starting. With that said, keep him on a short leash (much like CO was on Sunday). He may perform better then we expect and if not, MJ comes off the bench a bit with no fouls and has to redo what he did on Sunday.

 

[RUHouston]

For Rutgers to win this one, they have to get ahead. I don't think we can come back and win when we are missing so many players. Without Cliff, Myles would not be that effective. So the main piece of our success puzzle is Cliff.

Yet we beat the Illini with Cliff for only one half and two minutes of the second. Not to take away from Cliff but we didn’t win because of him.

 

[Scangg]

The newbies did not do pretty okay. There wasn’t one game that anyone did anything special or flashed Big Ten potential. That could change of course but to say they were okay is an exaggeration of exponential proportions.
I’m knocking pike for ONE THING. The front court depth is a concern. Douc hasn’t developed and Rieber isn’t ready. Maybe I will be surprised.

Just like Eugene Caleb Young didn't flash potential? They all did. People mistake stats for potential.

Myles must start period and he is very capable of playing without fouling as he has shown this year. Doucoure and Palmquist dont have to do much except give minutes and give some fouls here or there. What is disappointing is that Doucoure went from starting a good number of games his freshmen year to being an non entity on the court. He is a pretty big miss on the recruiting trail for Pike and thats why with a couple men down we find ourselves in this position. It happens at every program.

Doucoure was not a miss on the recruiting trail. Rutgers was the worst P5 team in the country and Doucoure was his first 4 star recruit. He came in and started as a freshman. That is not a miss at all. Pike then kept raising the level of talent on the team where he is the 3rd/4th string center. That is a smashing success on how to build a program not a recruiting miss.

 

[Scangg]

The Myles starting argument will be decided by hindsight bias.

If he starts and can play without fouling its a genius move by Pike to trust Myles as a seasoned upperclassmen to play smart. If Myles picks up 2 quick fouls, its a see this is why Myles should come off the bench now we are screwed still to what was working.

If he doesn't start and we get off to a slow start and the team is out of sync, its see the needed Myles in there from the tip. If he doesn't and we get off to a good start, its pike is smart sticking to the winning formula.

Is getting off to a quick start worth the risk of Myles early foul trouble? We didn't get off to one against Illinois and won... on the road it may be harder to come back but it also could mean a home whistle for OSU