This has to STOP

[Budgripe86]

What happened to Trump is awful, but let’s not forget about the thousands of innocents dying at the hands of the Israeli and American governments.

Let’s hope and pray whoever the next prez is will condemn this violence, not just with words, but with action.

https://news.antiwar.com/2024/07/22...ered-in-gaza-says-idf-snipers-shoot-toddlers/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...oned-palestinian-down-syndrome-treat-soldiers

 

[dpic73]

What happened to Trump is awful, but let’s not forget about the thousands of innocents dying at the hands of the Israeli and American governments.

Let’s hope and pray whoever the next prez is will condemn this violence, not just with words, but with action.

https://news.antiwar.com/2024/07/22...ered-in-gaza-says-idf-snipers-shoot-toddlers/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...oned-palestinian-down-syndrome-treat-soldiers

I saw this doctor's interview on tv and they even showed a clip of a toddler being shot in the middle of the road. It's soul-crushing.

I support Israel and want Hamas to be eliminated but damn, it's gotten way too out of hand.

 

[hopefultiger13]

What happened to Trump is awful, but let’s not forget about the thousands of innocents dying at the hands of the Israeli and American governments.

Let’s hope and pray whoever the next prez is will condemn this violence, not just with words, but with action.

https://news.antiwar.com/2024/07/22...ered-in-gaza-says-idf-snipers-shoot-toddlers/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...oned-palestinian-down-syndrome-treat-soldiers

I agree. But WE can't stop it. The folks over there have to decide to stop. HAMAS has the stated goal to destroy Israel and kill Jews around the world. They have a lot of support. The IDF is hardly a group of saints and regularly kill civilians. Sunni and Shite Muslims are regularly killing each other and anyone else who runs afoul of their religious beliefs. The Muslims and Hindus were killing each other so much that India split into India and Pakistan. Folks in the middle east have been merrily killing each other for all of recorded history. That doesn't look to be stopping any time soon and I've yet to see any plan that has a hope of success.

Trump was right on this... We don't belong there.

 

[Budgripe86]

I saw this doctor's interview on tv and they even showed a clip of a toddler being shot in the middle of the road. It's soul-crushing.

I support Israel and want Hamas to be eliminated but damn, it's gotten way too out of hand.

Soul-crushing is the perfect description. It’s a shame that it’ll be all but forgotten with the craziness going on in our country between now and November.

 

[Budgripe86]

I agree. But WE can't stop it. The folks over there have to decide to stop. HAMAS has the stated goal to destroy Israel and kill Jews around the world. They have a lot of support. The IDF is hardly a group of saints and regularly kill civilians. Sunni and Shite Muslims are regularly killing each other and anyone else who runs afoul of their religious beliefs. The Muslims and Hindus were killing each other so much that India split into India and Pakistan. Folks in the middle east have been merrily killing each other for all of recorded history. That doesn't look to be stopping any time soon and I've yet to see any plan that has a hope of success.

Trump was right on this... We don't belong there.

We can definitely stop supplying them with offensive weapons that are regularly used on the civilian population. We can definitely hold the Israeli gov’t accountable. Make no mistake, there are factions of the Israeli gov’t who made the attack possible and who regularly block any chance of a compromise.

I’ve got zero issue supplying them with iron dome type defensive weapons.

The craziest part of this is the overwhelming Christian support.

 

[dpic73]

We can definitely stop supplying them with offensive weapons that are regularly used on the civilian population. We can definitely hold the Israeli gov’t accountable. Make no mistake, there are factions of the Israeli gov’t who made the attack possible and who regularly block any chance of a compromise.

I’ve got zero issue supplying them with iron dome type defensive weapons.

The craziest part of this is the overwhelming Christian support.

Here's the segment that aired on CBS Sunday Morning if you're interested. I can't watch it again.

 

[Budgripe86]

Here's the segment that aired on CBS Sunday Morning if you're interested. I can't watch it again.

WTF

 

[PAWrocka]

Well the first step would be for the Palestinians to root out and turnover Hamas terrorists, errrrrrrrr actually the first step would be for Hamas to release the hostages they have held since October 7…….. actually the first step would be for Hamas to NOT start a war then hide like roaches under/within civilian targets ….. ACTUALLY I suppose the first step would be for the Palestinians to NOT vote for a terrorist organization to their Government.

War is hell. Would be nice if Hamas leaders were actually in Gaza versus living lives of luxury in Qatar and the UAE while they use “their people” as meat shields.

 

[dpic73]

Well the first step would be for the Palestinians to root out and turnover Hamas terrorists, errrrrrrrr actually the first step would be for Hamas to release the hostages they have held since October 7…….. actually the first step would be for Hamas to NOT start a war then hide like roaches under/within civilian targets ….. ACTUALLY I suppose the first step would be for the Palestinians to NOT vote for a terrorist organization to their Government.

War is hell. Would be nice if Hamas leaders were actually in Gaza versus living lives of luxury in Qatar and the UAE while they use “their people” as meat shields.

I agree with everything you said here. The OP was specifically referring to the doctors reporting toddlers being shot by snipers. You can watch the segment in the clip I added above. This is in no way, shape or form a reason for anti-semitism which I firmly reject, but there are some things happening there that are beyond the pale.

 

[Willence]

This is what happens when the world stands by and allows (and even pays) for a terrorist group to imbed themselves among a civilian population. The UN and US among others have literally financed this. If we don't stop this now, it'll be like this always going forward. It's horrible and as someone said, sould crushing that this was allowed to happen. But it is also a price that the innocent will pay because of the corruption of those in power over many many years. There is no excuse for killing civilians and specifically children. Does anyone have a better way?

 

[PAWrocka]

I agree with everything you said here. The OP was specifically referring to the doctors reporting toddlers being shot by snipers. You can watch the segment in the clip I added above. This is in no way, shape or form a reason for anti-semitism which I firmly reject, but there are some things happening there that are beyond the pale.

I’ll take your word for it on the video, as ya … I’m not watching that, Not because I’m closing my mind off to truth but rather …. I’ve seen too much F’d up sh*t from over there.

but again … not a excuse, not dismissive, but … war is hell.

 

[PAWrocka]

This is what happens when the world stands by and allows and even pays for a terrorist group to imbed themselves among a civilian population. The UN and US among others have literally financed this. If we don't stop this now, it'll be like this always going forward. It's horrible and as someone said, sould crushing that this was allowed to happen. But it is also a price that the innocent will pay because of the corruption of those in power over many many years. There is no excuse for killing civilians and specifically children. Does anyone have a better way?

A way that achieves the objective? No … at least not a way that wouldn’t also increase risk to Israelis significantly.

In every conflict, in human history, civilians have been killed and targeted. If the allies had lost WW2 Truman/Rosevelt, Churchhil, their generals and others would’ve been tried for war crimes. By the end of the War, there weren’t many buildings left standing in Germany.

This doesn’t make it ok …. it’s just truth.

Hamas and the Palestians could end this conflict now, today, but …… NOPE.

 

[purenonsense]

I saw this doctor's interview on tv and they even showed a clip of a toddler being shot in the middle of the road. It's soul-crushing.

I support Israel and want Hamas to be eliminated but damn, it's gotten way too out of hand.

I am afraid this is the way it will be as long as Nutty Yoo Hoo is in command.

 

[Willence]

A way that achieves the objective? No … at least not a way that wouldn’t also increase risk to Israelis significantly.

In every conflict, in human history, civilians have been killed and targeted. If the allies had lost WW2 Truman/Rosevelt, Churchhil, their generals and others would’ve been tried for war crimes. By the end of the War, there weren’t many buildings left standing in Germany.

This doesn’t make it ok …. it’s just truth.

Hamas and the Palestians could end this conflict now, today, but …… NOPE.

If the world was more resolute about not tolerating terrorism, it would all end so much faster and with so many less casualties. Just as the world looks the other way to the fact there is more slave labor now than there has ever been on this planet. Our morality is so circumstantial and that's why evil flourishes everywhere.

 

[Budgripe86]

A way that achieves the objective? No … at least not a way that wouldn’t also increase risk to Israelis significantly.

In every conflict, in human history, civilians have been killed and targeted. If the allies had lost WW2 Truman/Rosevelt, Churchhil, their generals and others would’ve been tried for war crimes. By the end of the War, there weren’t many buildings left standing in Germany.

This doesn’t make it ok …. it’s just truth.

Hamas and the Palestians could end this conflict now, today, but …… NOPE.

I completely understand what you’re saying, this is a terribly complicated situation.

To be clear- I am NOT antisemitic. I am anti- innocent civilians and children being purposefully targeted, especially by a nation we prop up.

If I were alive in the 1940’s I hope I’d being saying the same things about our bombing campaigns in Europe and the Pacific.

Let’s be clear there’s a huge difference between accidental civilian casualties (War is Hell) and purposefully targeting civilians. (War Crimes)

There are also those who claim that these stories and pictures are Hamas propaganda to give Israel a black eye. (This is the current belief of many evangelicals). Truly frightening.

 

[Budgripe86]

If the world was more resolute about not tolerating terrorism, it would all end so much faster and with so many less casualties. Just as the world looks the other way to the fact there is more slave labor now than there has ever been on this planet. Our morality is so circumstantial and that's why evil flourishes everywhere.

Ever wonder who laid the groundwork, funded and supported the militia’s that led to our current terrorist problem?

 

[Willence]

Ever wonder who laid the groundwork, funded and supported the militia’s that led to our current terrorist problem?

I know our hands are dirty in all of this. The policy of supporting the enemy of my enemy has led us down a lot of dark paths. The more I know about the USSR and our corresponding willingness to work with such a brutal government, the more conflicted I become. The USSR was every bit as bad as the Nazis (in some ways, worse) and history has just covered up the extent of this. We funded their survival in WW2 in so many ways. There are so many examples like this throughout history. It's why I believe in certain moral absolutes with the understanding the support of those views can come with a very high cost.

 

[Willence]

I completely understand what you’re saying, this is a terribly complicated situation.

To be clear- I am NOT antisemitic. I am anti- innocent civilians and children being purposefully targeted, especially by a nation we prop up.

If I were alive in the 1940’s I hope I’d being saying the same things about our bombing campaigns in Europe and the Pacific.

Let’s be clear there’s a huge difference between accidental civilian casualties (War is Hell) and purposefully targeting civilians. (War Crimes)

There are also those who claim that these stories and pictures are Hamas propaganda to give Israel a black eye. (This is the current belief of many evangelicals). Truly frightening.

I think the part you're not addressing is civilians produce the materials used to make war. Civilians also become soldiers as the fighting forces don't just spawn out of no where. There's no way around this. One of the primary things about waging war is stopping the opposition's ability to make war. What we did in WW2 saved millions of American and British lives. It doesn't mean it was a good thing. It's just what had to happen after this terrible thing was unleashed on all people.

 

[acwill07]

I know our hands are dirty in all of this. The policy of supporting the enemy of my enemy has led us down a lot of dark paths. The more I know about the USSR and our corresponding willingness to work with such a brutal government, the more conflicted I become. The USSR was every bit as bad as the Nazis (in some ways, worse) and history has just covered up the extent of this. We funded their survival in WW2 in so many ways. There are so many examples like this throughout history. It's why I believe in certain moral absolutes with the understanding the support of those views can come with a very high cost.

We had to fund the USSR's survival because we needed them. We don't win WW2 without them and an argument can be made they won the European theater .

 

[Willence]

We had to fund the USSR's survival because we needed them. We don't win WW2 without them and an argument can be made they won the European theater .

They certainly depleted the German army. It's just a tough sell for me given the atrocities they committed and the fact that so many millions died because of our bargain with the bad guy!

 

[PawsFan]

I've watched Lebanese children shows, geared for kids 6 and under, teaching the child to hate Israelis and Jews. The characters are all puppets. The "hero" in the show is a martyr that killed jews with a bomb vest.

So tell me again how America is at fault here? Who's perpetuates the violence?

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Just to put my 2 cents into this

Not that what I think matters

Number one Stop killing Jews and threatening them

Number 2 Lay down your weapons all haters of Jews and stop killing Jews


Number 3 I blame Radical Muslims and Arabs for 99 per cent of this mess

Number 4 See 1 through 3

 

[Budgripe86]

I've watched Lebanese children shows, geared for kids 6 and under, teaching the child to hate Israelis and Jews. The characters are all puppets. The "hero" in the show is a martyr that killed jews with a bomb vest.

So tell me again how America is at fault here? Who's perpetuates the violence?

I’m not adjudicating Muslim terrorist of personal responsibility. Brainwashing children to hate someone is horrible. Killing the innocent is horrible. All terrorist are completely evil, with the exception of the children they use for their purposes.

But… let’s not pretend our hands are clean and we have some sort of moral high ground to stand on. To be clear- I don’t mean you @PawsFan_ as an individual. I’m referring to our gov’t and what they have done over the last 50 years as it pertains to Muslim extremist.

The US govt convinced the American public, and millions of young service members that we were fighting a jihad that hated us for our freedoms… ********

 

[PawsFan]

I’m not adjudicating Muslim terrorist of personal responsibility. Brainwashing children to hate someone is horrible. Killing the innocent is horrible. All terrorist are completely evil, with the exception of the children they use for their purposes.

But… let’s not pretend our hands are clean and we have some sort of moral high ground to stand on. To be clear- I don’t mean you @PawsFan_ as an individual. I’m referring to our gov’t and what they have done over the last 50 years as it pertains to Muslim extremist.

The US govt convinced the American public, and millions of young service members that we were fighting a jihad that hated us for our freedoms… ********

No. They hate us because we aren't Muslims. That's not ********. That's fact. To suggest otherwise is supreme ignorance of the Radical Muslim Ideology.

That's not the US's doing. That's the countless Iman that preach their version of the Koran to the ignorant youth of the Middle East.

 

[Budgripe86]

No. They hate us because we aren't Muslims. That's not ********. That's fact. To suggest otherwise is supreme ignorance of the Radical Muslim Ideology.

That's not the US's doing. That's the countless Iman that preach their version of the Koran to the ignorant youth of the Middle East.

I’m not disputing what the current radical Islamist are putting out when it comes to propaganda, misinterpretations of the Koran, etc. For them it’s all about power and control. The Imams could care less if you’re Christian or otherwise. Look at what they do to fellow Muslims. WE turned their barrel towards us and made it a global jihad.

 

[PAWrocka]

I completely understand what you’re saying, this is a terribly complicated situation.

To be clear- I am NOT antisemitic. I am anti- innocent civilians and children being purposefully targeted, especially by a nation we prop up.

If I were alive in the 1940’s I hope I’d being saying the same things about our bombing campaigns in Europe and the Pacific.

Let’s be clear there’s a huge difference between accidental civilian casualties (War is Hell) and purposefully targeting civilians. (War Crimes)

There are also those who claim that these stories and pictures are Hamas propaganda to give Israel a black eye. (This is the current belief of many evangelicals). Truly frightening.

…. Let me be absolutely clear, I’m in no way defending the Axis powers, but ….

You think all the Axis Powers civilian casualties were accidental? There is a reason why the air campaign turned so drastically once the Americans got involved and instituted day time bombing, because the Brits were indiscriminately bombing neighborhoods instead of factories that were actual targets.

We can let Hiroshima go, but Nagasaki? Really?

War is Hell and you’re fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

…. as far as what is going on now in Gaza. I hate it, but Hamas and the Palestinians could end the conflict today. I’ll just leave it there

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I’m not adjudicating Muslim terrorist of personal responsibility. Brainwashing children to hate someone is horrible. Killing the innocent is horrible. All terrorist are completely evil, with the exception of the children they use for their purposes.

But… let’s not pretend our hands are clean and we have some sort of moral high ground to stand on. To be clear- I don’t mean you @PawsFan_ as an individual. I’m referring to our gov’t and what they have done over the last 50 years as it pertains toMuslim extremist.

The US govt convinced the American public, and millions of young service members that we were fighting a jihad that hated us for our freedoms… ********

The US and our country has no moral high ground as well as the rest of the world

We kill for resources

Ask the millions of dead NATIVE AMERICANS who died so someone could have their land

I believe in America and its vision but also know we are stained with lots of blood

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

…. Let me be absolutely clear, I’m in no way defending the Axis powers, but ….

You think all the Axis Powers civilian casualties were accidental? There is a reason why the air campaign turned so drastically once the Americans got involved and instituted day time bombing, because the Brits were indiscriminately bombing neighborhoods instead of factories that were actual targets.

We can let Hiroshima go, but Nagasaki? Really?

War is Hell and you’re fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

…. as far as what is going on now in Gaza. I hate it, but Hamas and the Palestinians could end the conflict today. I’ll just leave it there

War is all about killing

HAMAS started it and IDF will end it

Until they start again

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I know our hands are dirty in all of this. The policy of supporting the enemy of my enemy has led us down a lot of dark paths. The more I know about the USSR and our corresponding willingness to work with such a brutal government, the more conflicted I become. The USSR was every bit as bad as the Nazis (in some ways, worse) and history has just covered up the extent of this. We funded their survival in WW2 in so many ways. There are so many examples like this throughout history. It's why I believe in certain moral absolutes with the understanding the support of those views can come with a very high cost.

Add China against Japan

How the cookie crumbles

 

[PAWrocka]

Add China against Japan

How the cookie crumbles

Well … China against Japan is a little different than supporting the Russians. The Chinese Government that we allied with in WW2 is now … well … they are now Taiwan.

but ya … to your point about Russia, I always side eye any WW2 documentary that provides the number of Russian casualties as a way to say that the Eastern front was more deadly … a lot of those casualties were the Russians murdering their own people. That’s just the Russian strategy…. keep throwing meat at your enemy and until they run out of bullets and if the meat complains shoot it yourself. Not much has changed for Russia since WW2 … apparently not even their Tech.

 

[Budgripe86]

…. Let me be absolutely clear, I’m in no way defending the Axis powers, but ….

You think all the Axis Powers civilian casualties were accidental? There is a reason why the air campaign turned so drastically once the Americans got involved and instituted day time bombing, because the Brits were indiscriminately bombing neighborhoods instead of factories that were actual targets.

We can let Hiroshima go, but Nagasaki? Really?

War is Hell and you’re fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

…. as far as what is going on now in Gaza. I hate it, but Hamas and the Palestinians could end the conflict today. I’ll just leave it there

but Hamas and the Palestinians could end the conflict today.

I just don’t think some people are getting my point. Could Hamas lay down their arms in this current iteration of the conflict and end the fighting, probably yes.

Are there certain factions of the Israeli gov’t that want sustained conflict with the Palestinians and Hamas? Yes. And we are propping them up.

 

[Budgripe86]

War is all about killing

HAMAS started it and IDF will end it

Until they start again

HAMAS started it and IDF will end it

Wrong

 

[Willence]

I just don’t think some people are getting my point. Could Hamas lay down their arms in this current iteration of the conflict and end the fighting, probably yes.

Are there certain factions of the Israeli gov’t that want sustained conflict with the Palestinians and Hamas? Yes. And we are propping them up.

Very few of this type you alleged. And they don't hold power. It could all be over today if Hamas surrendered. That tells all we need to know. We are not propping them up.

 

[PAWrocka]

I just don’t think some people are getting my point. Could Hamas lay down their arms in this current iteration of the conflict and end the fighting, probably yes.

Are there certain factions of the Israeli gov’t that want sustained conflict with the Palestinians and Hamas? Yes. And we are propping them up.

Once Hamas surrenders and releases any hostages they have left and then if the Israelis continue clearly targeting Palestinian civilian Then and only then will we talk.


In the meantime, this is going on in DC today.

https://nypost.com/2024/07/24/us-ne...nNHDbxWXz94w8zrQ1g_aem_X7ELm2g4xjOTghPEAHNxSA

 

[Budgripe86]

Very few of this type you alleged. And they don't hold power. It could all be over today if Hamas surrendered. That tells all we need to know. We are not propping them up.

The man who spoke in front of Congress today is one of them.

 

[Budgripe86]

Once Hamas surrenders and releases any hostages they have left and then if the Israelis continue clearly targeting Palestinian civilian Then and only then will we talk.


In the meantime, this is going on in DC today.

https://nypost.com/2024/07/24/us-ne...nNHDbxWXz94w8zrQ1g_aem_X7ELm2g4xjOTghPEAHNxSA

So you’re telling me you’re ok with the Israeli armed forces continuing to shoot children, on purpose, until Hamas surrenders?

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Well … China against Japan is a little different than supporting the Russians. The Chinese Government that we allied with in WW2 is now … well … they are now Taiwan.

but ya … to your point about Russia, I always side eye any WW2 documentary that provides the number of Russian casualties as a way to say that the Eastern front was more deadly … a lot of those casualties were the Russians murdering their own people. That’s just the Russian strategy…. keep throwing meat at your enemy and until they run out of bullets and if the meat complains shoot it yourself. Not much has changed for Russia since WW2 … apparently not even their Tech.

Stalin killed more Russians

than Germans killed Russians

Mao killed more Chinese

than Japan killed Chinese

Figure it out from those numbers

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

So you’re telling me you’re ok with the Israeli armed forces continuing to shoot children, on purpose, until Hamas surrenders?

In war you kill until the enemy stops killing or trying to kill you

Not to say that specific 6 year old was a threat

There are many dead soldiers from children including lits if 6 year old innocent murderers who will kill as for example Jihad

On the battlefield every warm body is a target

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

The man who spoke in front of Congress today is one of them.

He is doing what he takes for Israel to survive

I would NOT want you as my leader when people were wanting to kill my family and me

You would let my family and me die before killing the people wanting to kill my family and me

What does that say about you

Nothing good

 

[PAWrocka]

So you’re telling me you’re ok with the Israeli armed forces continuing to shoot children, on purpose, until Hamas surrenders?

I’m telling you war is hell and Hamas can end this now. I’m also telling you that if Hamas hadn’t pulled babies from their cribs, burned them alive or decapitated them all the while they butchered and raped their mothers on October 7th this whole thing wouldn’t be happening …

Civilian death is always terrible especially when it is children ….

Soooo unless you had the exact same response and words, dare I say a more visceral response, for what happened on Oct 7th spare me the virtue signaling and “moral outrage”.

All of this blood is 100% on Hamas …. Of course their leaders are partying it up in Qatar and UAE.