Something to remember

[RU677381]

Several members of the team have not played against upperclassmen who have at least a couple of years of
experience plus a physical advantage in terms of strength. Certainly the difficulty in offensive rebounding and the turnovers at the end
could be attributed to those factors.

 

[zappaa]

Guaranteed to be an eye opening experience for both Harper and Bailey.
They will be initially shocked at the defensive game plans opposing coaches throw at them and the quality of defenders they will face night after night.

Neither of these guys realize yet how hard they will have to work, and neither of them realize how much energy they will expend on defense.

 

[bac2therac]

Several members of the team have not played against upperclassmen who have at least a couple of years of
experience plus a physical advantage in terms of strength. Certainly the difficulty in offensive rebounding and the turnovers at the end
could be attributed to those factors.

This is the biggest concern. Talent can only do so much. Experience matters and you saw the other night

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

This is the biggest concern. Talent can only do so much. Experience matters and you saw the other night

Jeremiah let us down there with that backcourt turnover. Can’t have that from him when he’s supposed to provide steady upper class leadership.

The good news at least is one of the problems down the stretch is instantly fixable. I can’t imagine we’ll see Dylan out there on D with 6 minutes to go and 4 fouls. Maybe we’ll sub offense / defense but that would be the extent. Dylan’s a much better defender than I expected but with 4 fouls he didn’t play D at all. That allowed SJU to get in a swag and make that come back.

 

[zappaa]

Jeremiah let us down there with that backcourt turnover. Can’t have that from him when he’s supposed to provide steady upper class leadership.

The good news at least is one of the problems down the stretch is instantly fixable. I can’t imagine we’ll see Dylan out there on D with 6 minutes to go and 4 fouls. Maybe we’ll sub offense / defense but that would be the extent. Dylan’s a much better defender than I expected but with 4 fouls he didn’t play D at all. That allowed SJU to get in a swag and make that come back.

Defense is exhausting and excruciating when you competently defend an entire shot clock only to allow an offensive rebound and be forced to reset. Neither of our two young studs are used to that

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Guaranteed to be an eye opening experience for both Harper and Bailey.
They will be initially shocked at the defensive game plans opposing coaches throw at them and the quality of defenders they will face night after night.

Neither of these guys realize yet how hard they will have to work, and neither of them realize how much energy they will expend on defense.

Let’s not go overboard, they just played one of the best teams they will see this season, one that is big, fast and athletic, and scored 45 points, and Dylan has only been on the court a few weeks after recovering from knee surgery. Both of these guys have scrimmaged multiple times with NBA players, so they have already experienced the highest level of competition. They have another couple weeks of practice and then a month to gel against cupcakes. They will be fine, it is the rest of the team you need to worry about.

 

[Scangg]

Let’s not go overboard, they just played one of the best teams they will see this season, one that is big, fast and athletic, and scored 45 points, and Dylan was only been on the court a few weeks after recovering from knee surgery. Both of these guys have scrimmaged multiple times with NBA players, so they have already experienced the highest level of competition. They have another couple weeks of practice and then a month to gel against cupcakes. They will be fine, it is the rest of the team you need to worry about.

Everyone should be more confident in the team after that scrimmage. We now have seen Ace and Dylan actually get it done against elite college opposition. They are only going to get better and already showed they can carry the team

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

Everyone should be more confident in the team after that scrimmage. We now have seen Ace and Dylan actually get it done against elite college opposition. They are only going to get better and already showed they can carry the team

Hayes too dude. Let that man shoot. Can Spencer shooting ability.

 

[RUDiddy777]

Let’s not go overboard, they just played one of the best teams they will see this season, one that is big, fast and athletic, and scored 45 points, and Dylan was only been on the court a few weeks after recovering from knee surgery. Both of these guys have scrimmaged multiple times with NBA players, so they have already experienced the highest level of competition. They have another couple weeks of practice and then a month to gel against cupcakes. They will be fine, it is the rest of the team you need to worry about.

Kind of came away impressed with how physically developed Dylan already is in person. He’s already in a man’s body.

 

[RUJMM78]

This will be a entertaining team to watch because of Bailey and Harper.Opponents know to defeat Rutgers they must limit the number of shots they take.There will be double teaming of them which means Rutgers offense must quickly react and pass the ball to a unguarded teammate.Short time on the bench must be factored in to give Bailey and Harper some rest.Playing some zone defense would also be less tiring.Pikiell has a great challenge with having two elite players for only one season.Players must understand their roles and not get upset regarding playing time.The goal should be to win at least 20 games, get a NCAA bid and win at least two tournament games.

 

[RUDiddy777]

This will be a entertaining team to watch because of Bailey and Harper.Opponents know to defeat Rutgers they must limit the number of shots they take.There will be double teaming of them which means Rutgers offense must quickly react and pass the ball to a unguarded teammate.Short time on the bench must be factored in to give Bailey and Harper some rest.Playing some zone defense would also be less tiring.Pikiell has a great challenge with having two elite players for only one season.Players must understand their roles and not get upset regarding playing time.The goal should be to win at least 20 games, get a NCAA bid and win at least two tournament games.

The other thing I noticed - not sure if by design, Harper was on the bench a bit over the last few minutes (think he subbed back in with 1 minute left). Not sure if that was Pike giving the other guys a test in a tight game because I doubt Harper sits a second of the last 5 mins of a close game.

 

[lion1983]

The other thing I noticed - not sure if by design, Harper was on the bench a bit over the last few minutes (think he subbed back in with 1 minute left). Not sure if that was Pike giving the other guys a test in a tight game because I doubt Harper sits a second of the last 5 mins of a close game.

He was sat down because with just under 6 minutes left he picked up his 4th foul. Pikiell kept him in and Harper immediately completely stopped playing defense for fear of picking up his 5th foul - and St. Johns took advantage of that. So Pikiell THEN sat him down for a couple of possessions.

In a real game, Harper is sat down immediately until the 4 minute time-out mark - for a couple of minutes. My guess is that Pikiell wanted to see how Harper would play with 4 fouls (he definitely talked to him after that 4th foul, during the FT stoppage, probably about how to play while avoiding the 5th foul). After he saw how he played, he sat him down to rest.

Harper will learn ... and this was a good lesson for him, and for Pikiell ... just what exhibitions are for, to try out different roles, different ways of playing, to test and put players into less comfortable situations to stress test situations ... and to learn from them.

 

[zappaa]

Let’s not go overboard, they just played one of the best teams they will see this season, one that is big, fast and athletic, and scored 45 points, and Dylan has only been on the court a few weeks after recovering from knee surgery. Both of these guys have scrimmaged multiple times with NBA players, so they have already experienced the highest level of competition. They have another couple weeks of practice and then a month to gel against cupcakes. They will be fine, it is the rest of the team you need to worry about.

Scrimmaging against NBA players isn’t remotely the same as playing in a game.
You may think it is, but it ain’t.
No pressure and playing with high level players offers no comparison

 

[MadRU]

Also remember we didn’t show everything. For instance no 1-3-1 zone either full court or half court. Full court pressure wasn’t used often, going 10-11-12 deep I fully expect a lot of full court pressure.

One of my yearly concerns is terrible inbound plays. Other than the Ace dunk, didn’t get much out of our inbound plays.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Scrimmaging against NBA players isn’t remotely the same as playing in a game.
You may think it is, but it ain’t.
No pressure and playing with high level players offers no comparison

You can google the film from the Stef Curry camp that Ace and Dylan attended. He and the others pros there worked these kids harder than anything they will ever see in college.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

You can google the film from the Stef Curry camp that Ace and Dylan attended. He and the others pros there worked these kids harder than anything they will ever see in college.

And btw, it was at this very camp that things got so heated between Bradley Beal and Cooper Flagg that they are to be separated.

 

[Scangg]

You can google the film from the Stef Curry camp that Ace and Dylan attended. He and the others pros there worked these kids harder than anything they will ever see in college.

When Dylan and Ace trained with Giannis they were both commenting on how hard and intense his work out was

 

[RUich]

Several members of the team have not played against upperclassmen who have at least a couple of years of
experience plus a physical advantage in terms of strength. Certainly the difficulty in offensive rebounding and the turnovers at the end
could be attributed to those factors.

wait until they enter the pros next year. they are pretty much used to beating up HS players with the same amount of experience but not as much latent talent. I never bough into the instant thought that they would be world beaters. I was actually more impressed with the bench players.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

wait until they enter the pros next year. they are pretty much used to beating up HS players with the same amount of experience but not as much latent talent. I never bough into the instant thought that they would be world beaters. I was actually more impressed with the bench players.

They scored 25 and 20 points in their first college competition. Were u expecting them to score 40 each?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

They scored 25 and 20 points in their first college competition. Were u expecting them to score 40 each?

They scored 25 and 20 points in their first college competition. Were u expecting them to score 40 each?

Like to see them score 35 and get 7 assists as opposed to 45 and 2 assists.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Like to see them score 35 and get 7 assists as opposed to 45 and 2 assists.

Dylan made several nice passes that should have led to points, but unfortunately our guys didn’t manage to convert. Ace was guarded super aggressively by Pitino, last year no one got attention like that. He could have passed out better and will during the season, but still scored 25 points.

 

[NBKnight]

Also remember we didn’t show everything. For instance no 1-3-1 zone either full court or half court. Full court pressure wasn’t used often, going 10-11-12 deep I fully expect a lot of full court pressure.

One of my yearly concerns is terrible inbound plays. Other than the Ace dunk, didn’t get much out of our inbound plays.

Davis got an open 3, which he made, on an inbounds play. Sometimes the goal is just to get the ball in play, and go from there.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Dylan made several nice passes that should have led to points, but unfortunately our guys didn’t manage to convert. Ace was guarded super aggressively by Pitino, last year no one got attention like that. He could have passed out better and will during the season, but still scored 25 points.

Just to expand on this, a Hall of Fame coach recognized in his first game that Ace Bailey was a major problem and that he had to double him basically whenever he touched the ball.

 

[jakeknight]

Both Ace and Dylan are superior talents, coming from HS programs where if they didn’t make the play, pass, or shot chances are it didn’t get done. Ace especially need to realize he is not a one man show, this will eliminate a lot of the double teams and hedges, they are playing with people now that can make plays and they will also get the ball back if they give it up a little earlier. The game will have a better flow and everybody will get better looks. As ball movement becomes quicker and more anticipatory everyone will benefit. For a change it appears we have a number of people that can score the ball and this team should be fun to watch

 

[RUDiddy777]

wait until they enter the pros next year. they are pretty much used to beating up HS players with the same amount of experience but not as much latent talent. I never bough into the instant thought that they would be world beaters. I was actually more impressed with the bench players.

Ace shot 45% from 3. In fairness, it might have been the quietest 25 point outing any of us have ever seen - him nondescriptly sinking 3s and long 2s, turnaround jumpers, (and a couple of drives). It wasn’t until I looked up after his 3 7 mins into the 2nd when I realized he had already dropped 20.

 

[lion1983]

Ace shot 45% from 3. In fairness, it might have been the quietest 25 point outing any of us have ever seen - him nondescriptly sinking 3s and long 2s, turnaround jumpers, (and a couple of drives). It wasn’t until I looked up after his 3 7 mins into the 2nd when I realized he had already dropped 20.

I agree .. but note he had 23 points with about 10+ minutes to go and only scored 1 more basket ... combo of St. John's focus plus I think he was a little tired. I state this without blame.

 

[zappaa]

You can google the film from the Stef Curry camp that Ace and Dylan attended. He and the others pros there worked these kids harder than anything they will ever see in college.

Working hard in a camp… that’s wonderful.
Your body changes under pressure and meaningful outcomes.
Both our lottery picks will experience an atmosphere, environment, talent level and intensity that’s foreign to them.
They are great players who will adjust…working hard in a camp is irrelevant to that process.

I Been there done that.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

JR Inman was ready for a break out junior year. He prepared for the season by hiring a coach and running on the beaches in California.

Not sure if I have the fact 100% here.....but there was no breakout.

As i have said before, Ace (especially) and Dylan have never been asked to play both sides of the court with full energy. This is going to be completely different. If they spectate on defense like we saw in the scrimmage we will be a .500 team.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Defense is exhausting and excruciating when you competently defend an entire shot clock only to allow an offensive rebound and be forced to reset. Neither of our two young studs are used to that

Yes - but I actually thought their halfcourt D was solid until the final 6 minutes where Dylan didn’t defend at all. They have to clean up transition D. They aren’t used to opposing teams being able to make them pay like that.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Yes - but I actually thought their halfcourt D was solid until the final 6 minutes where Dylan didn’t defend at all. They have to clean up transition D. They aren’t used to opposing teams being able to make them pay like that.

Dylan knows how to play defense and appears to be a willing defender. Ace is still a work in progress. Ace was late a few times getting out on shooters. That can't happen. Both were no shows on the defensive glass and snaring loose balls.

 

[satnom]

Working hard in a camp… that’s wonderful.
Your body changes under pressure and meaningful outcomes.
Both our lottery picks will experience an atmosphere, environment, talent level and intensity that’s foreign to them.
They are great players who will adjust…working hard in a camp is irrelevant to that process.

I Been there done that.

You were a potential top 5 NBA pick? Didn’t know that. I miss that Netflix special.

Btw: love your dad. True humble icon and American hero.

GO RU

 

[lion1983]

Dylan knows how to play defense and appears to be a willing defender. Ace is still a work in progress. Ace was late a few times getting out on shooters. That can't happen. Both were no shows on the defensive glass and snaring loose balls.

So ... in another thread I started on charting every RU defensive set vs St. Johns. I did not post the list of each possession, but I had opinions on what I saw. Based on that close examination:

On Bailey's defense:

Yes, he was slow to get out to the 3-point line a few times - but I think that was as much positioning, which he is still learning. Bailey also drifted some on help defense - that hurt at times ... but he also made several terrific recoveries on help, using his unbelievable quickness and athleticism to be productive in help defense (Pikiell was not kidding when he said Bailey is a great "emergency" help defender) - when he learns Pikiell's proper help defense he will be the best help defender RU has every had (or if he does).

On Harper's defense:

1) His on-ball defense was very solid - a couple of cheap fouls, but generally very solid. He really used his size and arm length to generally good effect. Before switches, Harper generally was assigned the St. John's WF - not Richmond or Wilcher, or Smith (the back-up PG). And he did fine, more often than not. He occasionally had issues with Luis (who came off the bench) when he was matched up against him - or on switches ... but Luis played really well.

2) His off-ball defense, however, needs a LOT of work, frankly. And I am not talking about after he picked up his 4th foul (where his defense was not as bad as I thought upon rewatching, except for 1, or maybe 2 plays). I AM talking about his general off-ball defense (separate from help defense). In re his off-ball defense, Harper way too often watched his teammates with the ball, losing track of the player he was supposed to be defending. That led to several back-cuts and several failed box-outs - which led to baskets and/or St. John's offensive rebounds.

3) His help defense also needs a lot of work. This is separate from the above comments on his off-ball defense, though obviously related. Harper clearly, on a number of plays, did not know where he was supposed to be, where to rotate to in order to help the team defense. He was not alone in this, but in rewatching and charting the defensive side of the game Harper stood out in this regard. FYI, this is an area in which Pikiell and his staff truly excel in teaching - and has 3 weeks of practice before the 1st real game, and then 3 weeks of playing 5 games before Vegas, and then into December and early January before the heart of the Big Ten schedule, to do so.

Will Pikiell completely fix these issues? We do not know - but for sure it will be improved. Harper is such a smart player, generally, I cannot believe he cannot and will not improve his game in every area coaching is offered. Harper IS a willing defender, it is obvious, fyi.

 

[zappaa]

You were a potential top 5 NBA pick? Didn’t know that. I miss that Netflix special.

Btw: love your dad. True humble icon and American hero.

GO RU

I was 1st round 20th pick in the country.
Drafted in 1975, in the big leagues in 1977, barely 20 years old.
All the hard work, preparation and success in the minor leagues can’t prepare you for a Don Sutton curve ball
Or a 110 mph ground ball from Dave Winfield…
Like I said, they are very talented, but the adjustment will be eye opening for them, I’m sure they will both be great in time.
PS…Did you see what happened to one and done Griffiths?

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I was 1st round 20th pick in the country.
Drafted in 1975, in the big leagues in 1977, barely 20 years old.
All the hard work, preparation and success in the minor leagues can’t prepare you for a Don Sutton curve ball
Or a 110 mph ground ball from Dave Winfield…
Like I said, they are very talented, but the adjustment will be eye opening for them, I’m sure they will both be great in time.
PS…Did you see what happened to one and done Griffiths?

Griffiths was never a 1 & done, he was a Top 25 to 60 player depending on the rating service.....one thing the rating service doesn't measure is competitiveness. Griffiths was not driven to compete or get stronger, better or willing to do other things beyond shooting. It happens to a lot of Top rated kids, whether they land at Duke, Kentucky, Kansas UCLA, UNC etc

 

[zappaa]

Griffiths was never a 1 & done, he was a Top 25 to 60 player depending on the rating service.....one thing the rating service doesn't measure is competitiveness. Griffiths was not driven to compete or get stronger, better or willing to do other things beyond shooting. It happens to a lot of Top rated kids, whether they land at Duke, Kentucky, Kansas UCLA, UNC etc

What’s your point?
Our fanbase had him having a monster year before he faced grown men with great athleticism guarding him.
His new coach says he’s a tireless worker by the way, and so did Pike.

 

[Shelby65]

Defense is exhausting and excruciating when you competently defend an entire shot clock only to allow an offensive rebound and be forced to reset. Neither of our two young studs are used to that

They aren’t going to tire themselves on D. Not how stars roll, especially one and dones who will be expected to carry the offense. Not being critical, it’s just how it is.

Defense is irrelevant to their draft stock. They ain’t bustin’ their asses on D.

 

[Rutgers25]

They aren’t going to tire themselves on D. Not how stars roll, especially one and dones who will be expected to carry the offense. Not being critical, it’s just how it is.

Defense is irrelevant to their draft stock. They ain’t bustin’ their asses on D.

If it plays out that way then we’ll be a bubble team sweating it out. For this season to be special they have to buy in on defense & rebounding

 

[NBKnight]

I was 1st round 20th pick in the country.
Drafted in 1975, in the big leagues in 1977, barely 20 years old.
All the hard work, preparation and success in the minor leagues can’t prepare you for a Don Sutton curve ball
Or a 110 mph ground ball from Dave Winfield…
Like I said, they are very talented, but the adjustment will be eye opening for them, I’m sure they will both be great in time.
PS…Did you see what happened to one and done Griffiths?

It will be a transition for them, no doubt, but guys with their talent level are not playing multiple years of college ball. They are moving to the NBA.

 

[Shelby65]

If it plays out that way then we’ll be a bubble team sweating it out. For this season to be special they have to buy in on defense & rebounding

That’s what I’m expecting, especially without a decent 5. their ‘buy in’ will be in disrupting passing lanes at best and waiting for fast break opportunities. How many legit B1G starters do we have ? Three (with Williams).

Will their offensive production outweigh their defensive liabilities and the other rotation player D limitations ?

It’s going to be an entirely different style than we’re used to seeing. Higher scoring by us and by opponents. Will be interesting to see if its a good thing for RU.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I was 1st round 20th pick in the country.
Drafted in 1975, in the big leagues in 1977, barely 20 years old.
All the hard work, preparation and success in the minor leagues can’t prepare you for a Don Sutton curve ball
Or a 110 mph ground ball from Dave Winfield…
Like I said, they are very talented, but the adjustment will be eye opening for them, I’m sure they will both be great in time.
PS…Did you see what happened to one and done Griffiths?

Zap, I love you and most of the time we agree with each other, but you are just wrong on this. You can’t compare being drafted in baseball in the 70s to being a basketball lottery pick in 2024. You can’t even compare being drafted in baseball today to being a top 5 basketball draft pick, and I will explain why.

-Forget the 70s, a first round baseball draft pick today may never even play against another first round draft pick. Top 5 basketball players have played national schedules with their high school teams, they played against all the top players in AAU, and against all the top players in camps and all star games. The best players have played all the best players for a couple of years before they even get to college.

-It is much harder to get drafted in the NBA vs the MLB, but it is also much more projectable. There are only 2 rounds in the NBA draft, vs 20 for MLB, and given how global basketball is, the pool of potential players is much larger with as many as 40% of foreign players drafted in any year. Drilling down to top 5 picks, which Ace and Dylan are expected to be, the miss rate over the last 6 or 7 years is less than 10%, and more than 50% of top 5 picks are averaging 20 points or more within their first two years in the league. Unlike you, very few top 5 draft picks get to the MLB in 2 years, and many top draft picks wash out.

-Top high school basketball players have a much greater opportunity to play and test themselves against NBA stars at camps and other private scrimmages. You may have been an outlier as the son of a legendary baseball player, but virtually no high school baseball players have the opportunity to compete against MLB players.

-This past year’s draft was relatively week, had Ace and Dylan been eligible, the would have gone 1st and 2nd over everyone drafted this year. Their offensive capabilities are well developed and well understood, their measurables are off the charts, and they have shown repeatedly they are alpha dogs competing against the best players.