SEC grads' median income

[esplanade91]

1. Vandy - $60,900
2. Texas A&M - $52,900
3. Florida - $51,300
4. Georgia - $46,500
5. Missouri - $46,000
6. LSU - $45,900
7. Auburn - $45,400
8. Arkansas - $43,600
9. Alabama - $42,400
10. Tennessee - $42,300
11. South Carolina - $42,100
12. Kentucky - $41,500
13. Mississippi - $40,600
14. Mississippi State - $39,600

Notables: USM ($36,200), Memphis ($37,000), UAB ($40,300), LT ($41,100)
Source:http://www.economist.com/blogs/grap...cn/fb/wl/bl/dc/st/ourfirstevercollegerankings

Kind of surprised, honestly. Is worth noting that the expected earnings for State grads is actually $2,000 more than Ole Miss.

 

[drt7891]

Assuming most grads stay in-state, the cost of living will obviously be a factor, as well. That is interesting, though.

 

[esplanade91]

I'd be interested to see how many MSU students stay in-state. I'd blindly guess 50%.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Damn Mississippi

rednecks holding us back!!!!!1

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Another attempt at that data from Brookings:

http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports2/2015/10/29-earnings-data-college-scorecard-rothwell

Do a search for Mississippi and it will give you all of them. Although the model and weights appear to be quite a bit different than the Economist model, the results are pretty similar. Interestingly, the school with a high value added in both models is Alcorn State. They apparently do a lot with the kids they get.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

Cost of living must have a lot to do with it. My salary increased by 36% when I moved from Jackson, MS to Nashville four years ago. I would imagine that the cost of living in Memphis is slightly higher than say, Jackson, MS. I would think that more UM grads end up there than State grads.

 

[uptowndawg]

I'd be interested to see how many MSU students stay in-state. I'd blindly guess 50%.

Close. 57.9%

But that includes all addresses on file at the Hunter Henry Center. I'm sure recent graduates are probably more inclined to move out of state for their first job.

http://www.alumni.msstate.edu/s/811/index.aspx?sid=811&gid=1&pgid=851

 

[was21]

Seems that the major would have more significance than the median but didn't read the article... a major in engineering/math/science would probably be higher than general business/education etc. Also geographical location and size of the company hiring.

 

[J-Dawg]

Did not read the article, but is this median income at a certain point in their careers (entry level, advanced, etc) or is this a median income across the board? I ask that because I swear I've seen several articles claiming that MSU grads make more, on average, across their entire careers than OM grads.

 

[Go Budaw]

If you read the article, it isn't nearly as simple as just taking the average starting salary for students at graduation. It's adjusted for if a kid with X standardized test score and X GPA goes to a certain school and gets X job after graduation, how does that starting salary change if he had the exact same results but at a different school. Basically, keeping all of the inputs from the student the same, how much is the school name on your diploma actually worth?

I think that other college rankings, including those that reflect favorably on MSU, have been rightly criticized for oversimplifying data and not comparing apples to apples in terms of chosen major and field of study. However I think this study also deserves some criticism due to overcomplicating the data. For example, if I have a 28 on my ACT and go to MSU for engineering, and put forth the required effort to get a 3.8 GPA. I get a job starting at $65k. Now, if I went to Georgia Tech with the same ACT score and got that same GPA, I could probably get a job starting at $75k or $80k pretty easy. But, the required effort and natural aptitudes required to achieve a 3.8 GPA at GT are likely much higher than MSU.

So, in the end it all boils down to the same thing. Its all about your chosen major and the amount of effort you put in. If you go to a good school, you still have to put in the work to actually take advantage of it. A 3.0 at Stanford is not better than a 4.0 at MSU, and a journalism degree at Harvard definitely isn't better than an engineering degree from MSU.

 

[esplanade91]

With all due respect, I'd rather have a 3.0 at Stanford than a 4.0 at MSU. I love MSU and I think it's a great state school, but Stanford has name recognition and grads across the country.

In my opinion, GPA's only seem to matter in the beginning. I've been told by a headhunter recently that most people don't list it after X years of experience. I think a B average is overshadowed by a degree from the #1 school in the world.

 

[KurtRambis4]

I have almost

no way in proving this, nor you refuting it, but I can all but guarantee a 4.0 at State would be a 3.0 at the least ANYWHERE else.

 

[o_fredgarvin]

If you read the article, it isn't nearly as simple as just taking the average starting salary for students at graduation. It's adjusted for if a kid with X standardized test score and X GPA goes to a certain school and gets X job after graduation, how does that starting salary change if he had the exact same results but at a different school. Basically, keeping all of the inputs from the student the same, how much is the school name on your diploma actually worth?

I think that other college rankings, including those that reflect favorably on MSU, have been rightly criticized for oversimplifying data and not comparing apples to apples in terms of chosen major and field of study. However I think this study also deserves some criticism due to overcomplicating the data. For example, if I have a 28 on my ACT and go to MSU for engineering, and put forth the required effort to get a 3.8 GPA. I get a job starting at $65k. Now, if I went to Georgia Tech with the same ACT score and got that same GPA, I could probably get a job starting at $75k or $80k pretty easy. But, the required effort and natural aptitudes required to achieve a 3.8 GPA at GT are likely much higher than MSU.

So, in the end it all boils down to the same thing. Its all about your chosen major and the amount of effort you put in. If you go to a good school, you still have to put in the work to actually take advantage of it. A 3.0 at Stanford is not better than a 4.0 at MSU, and a journalism degree at Harvard definitely isn't better than an engineering degree from MSU.

I hate to break it to you but a 2.0 at Stanford >>>>>>>>>> 4.0 at State

 

[tatedog]

And 98% of other universities as well.

 

[tatedog]

rednecks holding us back!!!!!1

Being Miss America don't pay like it used to I guess.

 

[thatsbaseball]

AND there are people who graduated from State with 3.0`s that could buy a boat load of Stanford 4.0 grads. Smart will not get you anywhere without hard work, experience and drive. Attributes that many find they simply don`t have until they are pushed out of the comfortable surroundings that academia provides. I know a degree from Stanford is more valuable than a degree from State and I understand what you`re saying to a point but I think your statement is too broad.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

no way in proving this, nor you refuting it, but I can all but guarantee a 4.0 at State would be a 3.0 at the least ANYWHERE else.

Can't speak for all disciplines but I've worked with engineers nationwide and I've never once felt that my, and others, MSU education left us unprepared in any way. Ain't skeered

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Highly unlikely

 

[Will James]

I hate to break it to you but a 2.0 at Stanford >>>>>>>>>> 4.0 at State

And twice on Sunday

 

[esplanade91]

My little sister is working on the same degree I received from State at an Ivy League school right now. She's in her first semester and she's taking a class I took my junior year. I tried to offer her help and at midterms she's already beyond anything we ever discussed. I've got what I consider a sweet job in the industry and have for almost 2 years and legitimately couldn't help her with her homework. I highly doubt she'll need that info after college, but people will pay her because she went through that.

My older sister went to one of Princeton Review's top 20 schools and majored in sociology with a GPA on the lower end of the 3's and was offered a job at one of the largest financial institutions in America with a salary I'm jealous of. Especially since her major was sociology.

I love MSU, and I completely agree... Everything is fluid. Your individual accomplishments, your degree, and where you live matter. I have friends from MSU who made 6 figures in their first jobs.

But saying a B at Stanford is less than a 4.0 at MSU is ridiculous.

MSU is a great asset to people in Mississippi. It is truly somewhere that can make a difference to someone who grew up in a very poor Mississippi household. But because of the Ayers settlement it's also somewhat of a degree factory, as is Ole Miss. I'd really like to see that overturned.

I also really want to say that since last football season I've really had a lot more clout at business cocktail hours. Dak is almost instantly mentioned. Crazy how football can make such a big difference where it shouldn't. It's trending up.

 

[Go Budaw]

My little sister is working on the same degree I received from State at an Ivy League school right now. She's in her first semester and she's taking a class I took my junior year. I tried to offer her help and at midterms she's already beyond anything we ever discussed. I've got what I consider a sweet job in the industry and have for almost 2 years and legitimately couldn't help her with her homework. I highly doubt she'll need that info after college, but people will pay her because she went through that.

My older sister went to one of Princeton Review's top 20 schools and majored in sociology with a GPA on the lower end of the 3's and was offered a job at one of the largest financial institutions in America with a salary I'm jealous of. Especially since her major was sociology.

I love MSU, and I completely agree... Everything is fluid. Your individual accomplishments, your degree, and where you live matter. I have friends from MSU who made 6 figures in their first jobs.

But saying a B at Stanford is less than a 4.0 at MSU is ridiculous.

MSU is a great asset to people in Mississippi. It is truly somewhere that can make a difference to someone who grew up in a very poor Mississippi household. But because of the Ayers settlement it's also somewhat of a degree factory, as is Ole Miss. I'd really like to see that overturned.

I also really want to say that since last football season I've really had a lot more clout at business cocktail hours. Dak is almost instantly mentioned. Crazy how football can make such a big difference where it shouldn't. It's trending up.

I'll answer your story with one of my own. I hired into the company I now work as an engineer along with 70+ other graduates from the likes of Stanford, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Carnegie Mellon, University of Michigan, Purdue, and other highly ranked / elite engineering schools from across the country. Half of them were book smart but had no interpersonal skills that are valued in the workplace. Several others quit to either go back to school, run the family business, etc. as they weren't hacking it. One guy (Stanford grad, by the way) got fired for being a complete 17 up less than 6 months into his assignment. Side note: it is next to impossible to be fired from my company unless you are just trying to get canned. I've moved consistently up the ladder in my time over this same period as have several others who didn't graduate from engineering blue blood schools. I've also been consulted frequently for technical advice from grads of the schools mentioned above. I'm also making in most cases the same amount and in many cases better money than those other contemporaries of mine.

The moral of the story is that the school you go to means something but is far from a golden ticket. It doesn't do a damn thing for you once you show up for your first day of work, although depending on the company (not mine, for sure) it might get you a little bit better starting pay. I can say without a doubt that MSU, at least for engineering, prepared me about as well as any other school in the country could have for my current assignment. As for other majors, I'll deflect to those grads to tell their own stories.

 

[Ishmael]

Really depends on too many different factors to generalize. I'd argue a 4.0 from State is better than a 2.0 from Stanford if you're trying to get into grad school. At least in my limited experience, a better GPA from a non-elite college is more helpful in getting in/getting scholarship money to grad school than an average GPA from a place like Stanford.

Also, the costs of a public university versus a private school need to be considered. It would be interesting to factor in average student loan debt to the equation as well.

 

[KurtRambis4]

I'm not

arguing the value of one degree over the other, but to assume ones actual intelligence is greater than the other bc of a piece of paper is not wise.

 

[DangerZone]

Half of them were book smart but had no interpersonal skills that are valued in the workplace.

Sad how many engineers are like that, from State or not. My wife calls me a "more normal" engineer.

 

[johnson86-1]

If you read the article, it isn't nearly as simple as just taking the average starting salary for students at graduation. It's adjusted for if a kid with X standardized test score and X GPA goes to a certain school and gets X job after graduation, how does that starting salary change if he had the exact same results but at a different school. Basically, keeping all of the inputs from the student the same, how much is the school name on your diploma actually worth?

I think that other college rankings, including those that reflect favorably on MSU, have been rightly criticized for oversimplifying data and not comparing apples to apples in terms of chosen major and field of study. However I think this study also deserves some criticism due to overcomplicating the data. For example, if I have a 28 on my ACT and go to MSU for engineering, and put forth the required effort to get a 3.8 GPA. I get a job starting at $65k. Now, if I went to Georgia Tech with the same ACT score and got that same GPA, I could probably get a job starting at $75k or $80k pretty easy. But, the required effort and natural aptitudes required to achieve a 3.8 GPA at GT are likely much higher than MSU.

So, in the end it all boils down to the same thing. Its all about your chosen major and the amount of effort you put in. If you go to a good school, you still have to put in the work to actually take advantage of it. A 3.0 at Stanford is not better than a 4.0 at MSU, and a journalism degree at Harvard definitely isn't better than an engineering degree from MSU.

The data is skewed against affordable schools. It only includes people that applied for financial aid. Not sure how big of a deal that is, but I would expect a disproportionate share of states best students don't apply for federal aid. the ayers settlement also hammers us because we probably admit a disproportionate share of pell grant recipients, further skewing our data set.

I'd also be curious to see how they adjust for people that voluntarily leave the workforce. I know a lot of smart people with valuable degrees taking care of their kids. Not sure that'd hurt sec schools more, but I could believe it does.

ETA:

And is that median salary close to right? I know my group of friends is not representative, but I'd guess $40k was around the median salary when we graduated and basically nobody other than I guess the teachers were below $40k after 10 years.

 

[Digging dog]

Our Po-*** State.

 

[121Josey]

I hate to break it to you but a 2.0 at Stanford >>>>>>>>>> 4.0 at State

4.0 at State >>>>>>>>>> 2.0 at Stanford

For 128 credits or roughly 45 classes, you didn't 17 up. Not one single final exam. 4.0 could have well been a 5.0 on quality points. With a 2.0 at Stanford, everybody knows where you stand. With a 2.0, you either seldom made a B or 17'ed up a lot.

So, you may not be as smart as the Stanford grad, but you were smart enough not take money off your table. Plus, you didn't drown yourself in financial debt to get a degree and an opportunity to cash in on the master's degree of your choice.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

+1 mirrors my experience. I haven't seen another engineering school just blakerly produce better engineers that we do. I do avoid some schools for hires.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

2.0 means you suck. That's not good anywhere.

 

[Dawgbite]

The low salaries are a product of supply and demand.

I have spent over 30 years in furniture manufacturing and the problem is that there are more college graduates than there are jobs that have historically required a degree. Over the last ten years there has been a huge influx of engineers hired into positions that historically have gone to the high school grad with 10-15 years experience. The reason for this is that companies are hiring the college grads at a salary, a low salary because they are loaded with debt and desperate, vs the hourly employee who has most likely been on production and most likely would have to take a pay cut to accept these Middle management positions. The lack of what I call, common sense and work ethic, is comical with most of these engineers. Most think that they have earned the right to not get their hands dirty nor break a sweat. I'm not bashing engineers because that's what I am and my son is an EE but he recently told me that out of 4 EE's at his company, he was the only one that knew how to wire a three way light switch in their office. A common joke for us, when a wood part is cut too short usually thousands at a time, we tell the new engineer to go to maintainance and get a 9/16 wood stretcher. Nineteen out of twenty go, and maintenance just sends them to R@D because they had it last. It's kinda funny, but very sad.

 

[WayboDawg]

I agree completely with your statement about interpersonal skills. Currently I work at a really awesome company that gets applications from all around the country whenever there is an opening posted. One of my interviewers told me after the fact that I was chosen over a ton of more experienced/older applicants mainly because I was the only applicant that seemed down to earth and not a weirdo. Granted, I do have a good resume and some great experience to boot, but apparently I was chosen over some 20 and 30 year vets because I seemed approachable and would fit in with the current group's personalities. So the moral of the story is don't discount social skills.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Pell grant percentages: MSU 36% , Stanford 15%

 

[o_1984Dawg]

A few things...

1. Median seems like a dumb way to measure. Comparing average salary would probably be a lot kinder to MSU - I bet our salaries are more top-heavy than other schools. Engineering grads are making almost twice these figures. When ranking based on median though, it does not matter one bit whether engineering salaries are $50K or $500K

2. Harvard/Stanford/Princeton grads are not that much better than MSU/OM/SEC grads - but they are 1000x better off. Especially outside of engineering, which is a lot more balanced in general.

3. This idea that it's a lot harder to get a 3.8 at other schools than at MSU is BS. 2 words: grade inflation. Pull a 3.8 at State and you're probably in the top 10% of your class. At an Ivy you're closer to the 25% mark. More than half of all grades given at Harvard are A or A-.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

You're wrong.

Signed,
MSU Alum who previously worked at Stanford

 

[Sutterkane]

I'm tired of academia defining who we are as people. It's one of the biggest problems with our economic system. Having a college degree should not be a requirement for almost all white collar jobs. How that came to be has got to be the dumbest requirement for a job I've ever seen. It's also stupid that it's apparently one of the factors in if we elect somebody to office or not "went to this ivy league school and got a 4.0" who gives a ****. You have to royally 17 up at those schools in order to not graduate with honors.

 

[missouridawg]

I'll answer your story with one of my own. I hired into the company I now work as an engineer along with 70+ other graduates from the likes of Stanford, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Carnegie Mellon, University of Michigan, Purdue, and other highly ranked / elite engineering schools from across the country. Half of them were book smart but had no interpersonal skills that are valued in the workplace. Several others quit to either go back to school, run the family business, etc. as they weren't hacking it. One guy (Stanford grad, by the way) got fired for being a complete 17 up less than 6 months into his assignment. Side note: it is next to impossible to be fired from my company unless you are just trying to get canned. I've moved consistently up the ladder in my time over this same period as have several others who didn't graduate from engineering blue blood schools. I've also been consulted frequently for technical advice from grads of the schools mentioned above. I'm also making in most cases the same amount and in many cases better money than those other contemporaries of mine.

The moral of the story is that the school you go to means something but is far from a golden ticket. It doesn't do a damn thing for you once you show up for your first day of work, although depending on the company (not mine, for sure) it might get you a little bit better starting pay. I can say without a doubt that MSU, at least for engineering, prepared me about as well as any other school in the country could have for my current assignment. As for other majors, I'll deflect to those grads to tell their own stories.

You usually can tell within second or two of meeting someone if they are a "lock in the closet, do not let customers see them, mad scientist engineer" or a "suitable for management" type of engineer. It's startling how many "mad scientists" these engineering schools produce that can't do **** without a manual in front of them. Critical thinking is a skill that escapes a lot of people.

 

[grinnindawg]

Different survey with mid career salaries

bachelors only
Rank	School Name	School Type	Early Career Salary	Mid-Career Salary	% High Meaning	% STEM Degrees
45	Vanderbilt University	Research Universities, For Sports Fans	$56,300	$103,400	61%	25%
76	Missouri University of Science and Technology (S&T)	State School, Engineering	$62,400	$98,100	53%	89%
127	Auburn University	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$47,100	$91,600	55%	20%
171	University of Alabama - Huntsville Campus	State School, Research Universities	$52,000	$87,500	56%	37%
216	University of Florida (UF)	State School, Party School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$48,800	$85,300	54%	20%
216	Louisiana State University (LSU)	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$48,100	$85,300	64%	19%
269	Tennessee Technological University (TTU)	State School, For Sports Fans	$51,100	$82,600	53%	25%
273	University of Missouri - Columbia	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$44,600	$82,500	51%	16%
298	University of Georgia (UGA)	State School, Party School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$45,900	$81,500	55%	11%
312	University of Arkansas - Main Campus	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$45,400	$80,900	53%	20%
350	Mississippi State University (MSU)	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$46,800	$79,400	62%	21%
362	University of Tennessee	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$44,900	$79,000	59%	15%
416	University of Alabama - Main Campus	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$43,600	$76,600	57%	12%
464	University of South Carolina - Main Campus	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$43,100	$75,000	54%	14%
542	University of Kentucky (UK)	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$45,800	$72,500	55%	16%
557	University of Mississippi	State School, Party School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$41,000	$72,100	66%	9%
all alumni
Rank	School Name	School Type	Early Career Salary	Mid-Career Salary	% High Meaning	% STEM Degrees
48	Vanderbilt University	Research Universities, For Sports Fans	$56,500	$107,100	61%	25%
85	Missouri University of Science and Technology (S&T)	State School, Engineering	$62,600	$98,900	53%	89%
87	Texas A&M University - Main Campus	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$54,600	$98,800	54%	29%
136	Auburn University	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$48,100	$92,300	55%	20%
201	Louisiana State University (LSU)	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$49,000	$88,100	64%	19%
215	University of Florida (UF)	State School, Party School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$49,500	$87,200	54%	20%
256	University of Alabama - Huntsville Campus	State School, Research Universities	$52,800	$85,000	56%	37%
299	Tennessee Technological University (TTU)	State School, For Sports Fans	$50,800	$83,200	53%	25%
306	University of Missouri - Columbia	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$44,900	$82,700	51%	16%
323	University of Georgia (UGA)	State School, Party School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$46,300	$82,100	55%	11%
388	University of Arkansas - Main Campus	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$46,000	$79,900	53%	20%
389	University of Tennessee	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$45,300	$79,800	59%	15%
395	Mississippi State University (MSU)	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$47,800	$79,600	62%	21%
397	University of Alabama - Main Campus	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$44,700	$79,500	57%	12%
468	University of Mississippi	State School, Party School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$41,600	$76,600	66%	9%
490	University of South Carolina - Main Campus	State School, For Sports Fans, Research Universities	$43,900	$75,500	54%	14%
526

<tbody>
</tbody>

...

 

[grinnindawg]

Cogent rebuttal.


I've worked with Stanford grads, they've been mostly impressive.
Quote from one "You have to be a complete idiot to not make a B in a grad class at Stanford.
Florida undergrad was way harder."


A 3 at Stanford will certainly open more company doors in Silicon Valley than a 4 at State.
Grad school, I wonder. I know State grads with 4 or near 4s who've been accepted to :
C. Mellon, Stanford, MIT, Rose-Hulman, Cal-Tech.....
Not sure what $200k at Stanford bought you if that is the path you wish to take.


After working with good, ok, bad, and awful engineers from dozens of schools,
I came up with this axiom:

It matters who went where more than where who went.


I also knew 2 engineers who hired engineers for more than 4 decades.
Both quit hiring from the GT, Stanfords, and MITs of the world.
Quotes from both as to why:
"I can't get them to work on what I need them to work on."
"They can't relate to their crews. They'll tell a road crew that's been building roads since before they were born what they are doing wrong."
"Their superiority complex is more divisive than they are worth."
"Engineers from Auburn, State, and Alabama are a better value."


That last one is kind of insulting. I think I need to ask for more money.

 

[DeMaroon]

What the heck does the Ayers' settlement have to do with any university's degree matriculation?

My little sister is working on the same degree I received from State at an Ivy League school right now. She's in her first semester and she's taking a class I took my junior year. I tried to offer her help and at midterms she's already beyond anything we ever discussed. I've got what I consider a sweet job in the industry and have for almost 2 years and legitimately couldn't help her with her homework. I highly doubt she'll need that info after college, but people will pay her because she went through that.

My older sister went to one of Princeton Review's top 20 schools and majored in sociology with a GPA on the lower end of the 3's and was offered a job at one of the largest financial institutions in America with a salary I'm jealous of. Especially since her major was sociology.

I love MSU, and I completely agree... Everything is fluid. Your individual accomplishments, your degree, and where you live matter. I have friends from MSU who made 6 figures in their first jobs.

But saying a B at Stanford is less than a 4.0 at MSU is ridiculous.

MSU is a great asset to people in Mississippi. It is truly somewhere that can make a difference to someone who grew up in a very poor Mississippi household. But because of the Ayers settlement it's also somewhat of a degree factory, as is Ole Miss. I'd really like to see that overturned.

I also really want to say that since last football season I've really had a lot more clout at business cocktail hours. Dak is almost instantly mentioned. Crazy how football can make such a big difference where it shouldn't. It's trending up.

 

[DeMaroon]

Cost of living ... meh ...

Mississippi's salaries are embarrassing. They hold the state back and the people back.