PSU

643Bsbl

All-Conference
Jan 26, 2003
6,032
4,218
83
I just don’t see how anybody is going to stop The Monster that Is PSU . They are going to win another one . It’s obvious that what we are doing isn’t going to work . It seems Iowa and Ohio State have shifted to try and challenge them but even that hasn’t been enough. I really hope Coach Smith can get this fixed ASAP
 

CowboyMedic

Heisman
Feb 5, 2009
9,288
13,438
113
It seems like their theory is to have 5 good studs that make the final and another 5 guys that a serviceable that can get points in the wrestlebacks. Their 5 this year are the same 5 that won them the title last year.
 

643Bsbl

All-Conference
Jan 26, 2003
6,032
4,218
83
If their 125 wouldn’t have left they would have 6 studs in finale
 

NCcowboy

Junior
Dec 18, 2011
416
371
31
I just don’t see how anybody is going to stop The Monster that Is PSU . They are going to win another one . It’s obvious that what we are doing isn’t going to work . It seems Iowa and Ohio State have shifted to try and challenge them but even that hasn’t been enough. I really hope Coach Smith can get this fixed ASAP


Maybe they win and maybe they don't. If Ohio St wrestles well tomorrow and ends up with 4 placing 3rd, they will be right with PSU and can still win the tournament. Not all on the coach. Weigel has a good chance of being an AA if not hurt and we have a lot of talented wrestlers in the room. While we may not be with PSU next year, we will be better.

53 wrestlers in the NCAA tournament are from PA. 30 from OH and 10 from OK. This alone makes it easy to understand the advantage PSU and Ohio St hav in recruiting.
 
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chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
93,014
14,842
48
Mark Hall is from Minnesota and Bo Nickal is from Texas...and that's just from their Fab 5. Yes, they have a ton of kids on their roster from Pa. but they're recruit nationwide.

When you can give every stud a full ride and promise them a job once the exhaust their eligibility, it's easy to trot out 10 buzz saws.

So, what OSU needs to do is figure out what is legal, improve the RTC and get back to where we belong...because this last weekend isn't going to cut it!
 

osu2082

Heisman
Jan 29, 2006
33,438
61,498
78
So, what OSU needs to do is figure out what is legal, improve the RTC and get back to where we belong...because this last weekend isn't going to cut it!

Absolutely correct but it's going to take money and support from people like those on this board who are upset at where our program currently stands.

We simply don't support this program like the fans and donors at some of our biggest competition and certainly not at the level our program serves.

Every fan has a right to criticize but if you find yourself upset at the last few years I would tell you to buy season tickets, show up and donate. It's hard to expect success at the highest level when we don't match that with support and yes we can keep pushing to recruit better and bring in better coaches if needed.
 

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
93,014
14,842
48
I would like to! The group I spent several years going to nationals with kind of mucked me? Given, I definitely owe several years of tickets to that family.

For some reason, we don't have a donating environment, or at least one that gets to me. I would be happy giving what I can, I haven't been asked, ever!
 

Air_Thurman

Heisman
Jan 16, 2003
32,577
32,619
63
Absolutely correct but it's going to take money and support from people like those on this board who are upset at where our program currently stands.

We simply don't support this program like the fans and donors at some of our biggest competition and certainly not at the level our program serves.

Every fan has a right to criticize but if you find yourself upset at the last few years I would tell you to buy season tickets, show up and donate. It's hard to expect success at the highest level when we don't match that with support and yes we can keep pushing to recruit better and bring in better coaches if needed.

This times a million.

The Big 10 has every advantage in the world right now. Advantages our program can't even begin to compete with (Big 10 network and recruiting area). The one place we can control is fan support. We don't. We expect OSU wrestling to be good because of our history.

All that being said don't write off the program yet. We are going to be extremely good the next couple of years and fun to watch. There is a reason John redshirted a handful of guys who could have really helped this year. Guys like Kaid, Picc, Fix, Gfeller, Boo, Smith, Smith, Preston and White are not only really good but fun to watch. If you are pissed about the state of OSU wrestling don't just ***** on a message board, get your butt to Stillwater next year. You will be entertained. The team is going to be a blast to watch. Heck even if you can't get to Stillwater buy tickets. They are like $50-$80.
 

gbiddy13

All-Conference
Dec 9, 2011
1,821
2,147
0
Did anyone happen to catch Rex Holt talking about PSU the other day. Had a buddy of mine said he caught something like 30 minutes of Rex Holt talking about how PSU is getting so many recruits through big donors and somehow using loopholes to help pay for education, housing, etc. Just curious if anyone heard that from Rex and could expand?
 

Air_Thurman

Heisman
Jan 16, 2003
32,577
32,619
63
Did anyone happen to catch Rex Holt talking about PSU the other day. Had a buddy of mine said he caught something like 30 minutes of Rex Holt talking about how PSU is getting so many recruits through big donors and somehow using loopholes to help pay for education, housing, etc. Just curious if anyone heard that from Rex and could expand?

I don't think it is just Penn State. I think the RTCs operate in an extreme grey area. I think if the NCAA actually cared about stuff like this a lot of wrestling programs would have some sleepless nights.
 
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Inky29

All-American
Jun 2, 2001
9,905
8,005
113
Honestly it's going to take more than just, go buy some tickets or donate. This next comment isn't aimed at you OSU2082, but that kind of thinking is the problem. There needs to be a vision by the man in charge of where he sees the program going and what it's going to take to get there. If it's a better training facility give us a vision, if it's going to take 10 million to fund an RTC in Stillwater, tell us about it and how it will help. Then we need someone out there that can really sell the vision. Season tickets and wrestling club are nice but it's kind of 90's thinking. Let's be honest there are a few dozen of us on here that really care about OSU wrestling but we don't have the deepest of pockets. However there are thousands of casual fans out there that love OSU wrestling because it's our winningest program, even though they may have never been to a dual. Going to take more of Mike in a singlet pushing whatever vision Coach Smith can invision. I get it that baseball is next in line for a major upgrade but these last few years have felt like we are a one legged man in an arse kicking contest. Until someone comes out with a real plan and vision (if they have maybe I missed it) we are a rudderless boat just hoping the wind blows the right way.
 

osu2082

Heisman
Jan 29, 2006
33,438
61,498
78
Honestly it's going to take more than just, go buy some tickets or donate. This next comment isn't aimed at you OSU2082, but that kind of thinking is the problem. There needs to be a vision by the man in charge of where he sees the program going and what it's going to take to get there. If it's a better training facility give us a vision, if it's going to take 10 million to fund an RTC in Stillwater, tell us about it and how it will help. Then we need someone out there that can really sell the vision. Season tickets and wrestling club are nice but it's kind of 90's thinking. Let's be honest there are a few dozen of us on here that really care about OSU wrestling but we don't have the deepest of pockets. However there are thousands of casual fans out there that love OSU wrestling because it's our winningest program, even though they may have never been to a dual. Going to take more of Mike in a singlet pushing whatever vision Coach Smith can invision. I get it that baseball is next in line for a major upgrade but these last few years have felt like we are a one legged man in an arse kicking contest. Until someone comes out with a real plan and vision (if they have maybe I missed it) we are a rudderless boat just hoping the wind blows the right way.

Very good points and I totally agree. My point is many of those casual fans who are suddenly upset over the past few days can all be part of the solution and look more tickets and more support will help. Let's build our base of fans, support and potential donors.

The major issue is what you have discussed and I have many times as well is a major need for a RTC and the funding behind it. You are right we need someone to come up with the plan and cost and then sell that plan.

In the meantime (and I'm talking to myself) let's get out and support the program and get our butts in the seats. Kids take visits to Iowa, OhSt and PSU and see 10-12k people in a raucous environment for their big duals and we struggle to pull even 5,000 for ours.
 
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Air_Thurman

Heisman
Jan 16, 2003
32,577
32,619
63
Very good points and I totally agree. My point is many of those casual fans who are suddenly upset over the past few days can all be part of the solution and look more tickets and more support will help. Let's build our base of fans, support and potential donors.

The major issue is what you have discussed and I have many times as well is a major need for a RTC and the funding behind it. You are right we need someone to come up with the plan and cost and then sell that plan.

In the meantime (and I'm talking to myself) let's get out and support the program and get our butts in the seats. Kids take visits to Iowa, OhSt and PSU and see 10-12k people in a raucous environment for their big duals and we struggle to pull even 5,000 for ours.

I'm just going to piggy back off all your posts and say this.

I also don't think we are down nearly as much as people think. Last weekend sucked. The team didn't perform as well as they should have. That is on the coaches. They shouldn't escape criticism. That being said we knew this was a throw away year. We redshirted three guys who could have probably scored decent points at nationals. We are going to be a lot better next year with those three in the lineup and I think this team can win a national championship in 2020. We've also got two blue chippers coming in the next two years who could have gone to any school in America they wanted. We took them from Big 10 country. Not at all is lost. This is not a program who is teetering on the brink of collapse.
 
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Inky29

All-American
Jun 2, 2001
9,905
8,005
113
I wish attendance was more and I wish I didn't live three hours away and could make it to Stillwater more. Thankfully only a few more years and I believe my daughter will be there so that increases the number of guilt free visits. So that's one more butt in the seats but OU sucking has killed our attendance. Iowa led the nation in attendance but 80% of their total attendance came from three duals (PSU, Ohio St, and ISU). We have no local rival anymore so unless we have Iowa coming to town and both teams are good we are going to have a hard time breaking 5k. Look at who is coming into GIA, Kent State and Fresno State. None of those schools you mentioned probably would have drawn more than a couple thousand for those duals. If we could start getting a few thousand for those duals and then sprinkle in a big program to have one of those 8K attendance days I think that might be the best we can hope for on the attendance front. Now if we start rattling off 7 straight NC's then I think you'd see attendance bump against the Kent States and Fresno States of the world.
 

Air_Thurman

Heisman
Jan 16, 2003
32,577
32,619
63
I wish attendance was more and I wish I didn't live three hours away and could make it to Stillwater more. Thankfully only a few more years and I believe my daughter will be there so that increases the number of guilt free visits. So that's one more butt in the seats but OU sucking has killed our attendance. Iowa led the nation in attendance but 80% of their total attendance came from three duals (PSU, Ohio St, and ISU). We have no local rival anymore so unless we have Iowa coming to town and both teams are good we are going to have a hard time breaking 5k. Look at who is coming into GIA, Kent State and Fresno State. None of those schools you mentioned probably would have drawn more than a couple thousand for those duals. If we could start getting a few thousand for those duals and then sprinkle in a big program to have one of those 8K attendance days I think that might be the best we can hope for on the attendance front. Now if we start rattling off 7 straight NC's then I think you'd see attendance bump against the Kent States and Fresno States of the world.

This actually leads into another can of worms facing OSU wrestling. The Big 12 conference is a bit of a cluster. OSU wrestling needs programs like Wyoming and South Dakota State to continue to develop. While it is fun to mock OU's inept results this year we need them, ISU and West Virginia to bounce back.
 
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chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
93,014
14,842
48
I've got a plan for attendance- offer some sort of deal for little league and school attendance. Like get to sit on the floor or watch practicebthat day. Something to get young kids there.

-make a deal with a few bars on the strip. One ticket will get a wristband for a free beverage at the local establishment.

On the money, that needs more thought, but we have to get it to an endowment amount. The way I figure, the endowment needs to return plus 1mil/year to pay for RTC involvement and scholarships.

If I ever get well enough off, John Smith is where my money will go!
 

CowboyUp61

Senior
May 22, 2016
1,077
729
83
On the money, that needs more thought, but we have to get it to an endowment amount. The way I figure, the endowment needs to return plus 1mil/year to pay for RTC involvement and scholarships.

If I ever get well enough off, John Smith is where my money will go!
That's ONE of the reasons I keep buying a lottery ticket.....

Chase, I believe we had this endowment conversation a couple years ago. In order to return $1M per year, the total endowment would need to be $20M. Come on wrestling fans, dig under the couch cushions!
 
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osufiji

Sophomore
Oct 8, 2003
2,147
177
0
Lots of great points in here that should begin with this year being an aberration vs any kind of trend. In the 7 Championships that Penn State has won, we've finished second twice and have the closest finish of any runner-up during that stretch (not that moral victories matter). When we had 5 champs in 2005 it was historic and somehow Penn St has made it the new norm that casual OSU fans can't seem to put into context. Last week was the least enjoyable Nationals I've experienced since 2009, but I still couldn't help but think about the Minnesota and Iowa State fans and how far they have fallen.

Cael has completely changed the game and I think Inky nailed it on the head with the need for our coaches and administration to put a plan in place that elevates the resources we have some control over. We can't change the drop in local high school talent or the decimation of the Big 12, but we can put a greater emphasis on fund raising, the student athlete experience, recruiting and promotion/attendance. Maybe these requests have already been articulated to Holder and the administration is unwilling to or unable to support, but it seems like there is an opportunity here to bounce back in a major way and realign the program to narrow the gap with PSU.
 

Sebastian

Heisman
May 29, 2001
75,083
12,507
77
As west to east mentioned, there are also some lifestyle choices involved. We've supposedly become known as the party school. As the Iowa poster said earlier, PSU is the "fun" in the room place. Ohio State is the "we love the kids up the best" school. OU had become the religious school. Some of our guys closest to home (as mentioned above) are not willing to pay the price. Well, at least they like to party, some even illegally, and it affects them in whatever way. We've had several top guys who could party and win championships. Others it causes to fall far short of expectations. I heard a funny story recently about John walking in on a couple and smelling smoke. He blasts off on them saying they couldn't pass a drug test. Well one was smoking and the other is squeaky clean and cheekily said "I can." So John tested him thinking he was lying and he came up clean.

The thing is in wrestling the money is chump change compared to basketball and football. One big drop of $10 million could set the program up huge. We also need to try to advertise ourselves as the warm weather giant...cherry picking from the Midwest and East while putting the south, south west and west coast on close to lock down. I think John has recognized the problem and we are working on it with Fix's dad and Chris Perry's appointment being the first steps.
 
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osufiji

Sophomore
Oct 8, 2003
2,147
177
0
Sebastian - can you elaborate a little more on the lifestyle situation? Is this an issue where deeply religious kids (seemed like a lot of the finalists were vocal about their faiths) would go somewhere else because they feel like our program/wrestlers would be a bad influence on them?
 

osu2082

Heisman
Jan 29, 2006
33,438
61,498
78
Some college kids drink beer and some college wrestlers drink beer. Some kids can handle it and some kids can't.

That's no different in Stillwater, State College, Columbus or anywhere else.
 

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
93,014
14,842
48
That's ONE of the reasons I keep buying a lottery ticket.....

Chase, I believe we had this endowment conversation a couple years ago. In order to return $1M per year, the total endowment would need to be $20M. Come on wrestling fans, dig under the couch cushions!

I remember that...sorta. There has to be a way to start chipping away at a way to pay international competitors!

Obviously I know we can't sell cookies and get it done. But fundraising seems to have a glaring shortfall?
 

CowboyUp61

Senior
May 22, 2016
1,077
729
83
I remember that...sorta. There has to be a way to start chipping away at a way to pay international competitors!

Obviously I know we can't sell cookies and get it done. But fundraising seems to have a glaring shortfall?
no doubt. Guess I need to find out who is in charge and ask the question!
 

Sebastian

Heisman
May 29, 2001
75,083
12,507
77
My source says Boo almost went to OU due to the differences. He thought he fit in better down there. They just sucked so bad and him wanting to be in the best situation to get better made OSU his ultimate choice. The last OU coach supposedly had them all on non drinking pledges year round and lots of encouragement to do Christian stuff.

People might be surprised to find out how many of these guys can perform while drinking and smoking regularly. Some of our best when I went to school in late 80’s early 90’s were big partiers. But some burned out too, for example Laurence Jackson, national number one recruit. It’s no secret Marsteller had issues recently. The team a few years ago was really bad. Seems like half of them got arrested or in trouble for stupid party stuff, including Perry.
 

proud2bpokes

All-Conference
Feb 17, 2002
1,143
1,030
76
I am not buying this party program reputation. I am sure a few of the team members as with most any team on any campus occasionally party. However, some of our top guys participate in regular bible studies, Nolan Boyd started a faith-based wrestling camp this summer and members of this team served as counselors. One of our recent recruits chose OSU due to religious connections he made with team members during the recruiting process. When you have a group of 35 or so making up the roster there will be a range of belief systems and attitudes. Of course, partying should not get in the way of success.
 

Sebastian

Heisman
May 29, 2001
75,083
12,507
77
Pat was definitely a partier. Even as the party school we have many active in FCA and other activities. The interesting thing on Boyd was he was temporarily sucked in to the party scene according to his story. He got better when he returned to his old ways.
 

Goldbanger

Senior
Oct 22, 2013
780
434
63
This is my first post over here this year and I come in peace as always. I'm reading all the comments on fund raising, and obviously it is important, so I have to ask, does T Boone Pickens only support the football program because he seems to be a great place to start? With your track record of winning, with a guy like John Smith at the helm, it seems like it would be a no brainer for T Boone. What am I missing?
 

CowboyUp61

Senior
May 22, 2016
1,077
729
83
This is my first post over here this year and I come in peace as always. I'm reading all the comments on fund raising, and obviously it is important, so I have to ask, does T Boone Pickens only support the football program because he seems to be a great place to start? With your track record of winning, with a guy like John Smith at the helm, it seems like it would be a no brainer for T Boone. What am I missing?
I don't think Boone was mentally tough enough to be a wrestler o_O!

But seriously, the vast majority of those donations have gone toward football facilities- other than the $120 million toward academic endowment.
 
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Goldbanger

Senior
Oct 22, 2013
780
434
63
I don't think Boone was mentally tough enough to be a wrestler o_O!

But seriously, the vast majority of those donations have gone toward football facilities- other than the $120 million toward academic endowment.

You would think he might have a spare mil for wrestling laying around. You're probably right on the mental toughness statement, but I'm sure it could be overlooked for a nice donation, no?
 

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
93,014
14,842
48
He was a basketball player, so he was probably jealous of Wrestlers...which, equals no money!

I am curious what the discussions are like between Smith and Holder. You know Gundy recruits kids that Wrestled and is pro-Wrestling...I'm sure he would love to improve the RTC. I stay confused on the issue.
 
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CowboyUp61

Senior
May 22, 2016
1,077
729
83
You would think he might have a spare mil for wrestling laying around. You're probably right on the mental toughness statement, but I'm sure it could be overlooked for a nice donation, no?
He isn't done yet, from what I have heard. Maybe some of it might trickle down.

And Chase, Gundy has plenty of spare change lying around, surely. Maybe someone just needs to whisper sweet nothings in his ear to get him to clean the couch cushions!