OT: State basketball - ref show

mgbreeze

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I don't imagine this is too interesting to most, but a ref just decided a D2 game between Santee and Shelton. Santee had a 1 point lead and was inbounding the ball with a second to play. There was contact and a Shelton player flopped (my opinion) and baited the ref into calling a technical. Shelton makes the free throws, game over. Just brutal. Video in the link below.
 

HUSKERFAN66

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Dec 8, 2004
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I was watching it on TV. Backed it up and rewatched it and replay from another angle.

Correct call and ref had no choice but to call that...imo.

Heck of a blow for Santee. Might have been accidental but definitely an elbow to the face.
 

mgbreeze

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I was watching it on TV. Backed it up and rewatched it and replay from another angle.

Correct call and ref had no choice but to call that.

Heck of a blow for Santee. Might have been accidental but definitely an elbow to the face.
I'll defer to you if there's a better angle. It was still an obvious flop and I really hate seeing that rewarded in that situation.
 

mgbreeze

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I mean, the dude lifted his elbow into the other dudes chin.
Well, I guess that's one analysis. If you actually watch the replay closely his elbow comes nowhere close to the other guy's chin. And the Shelton kid flops like he's been hit by a cannon ball.
 

Harry Caray

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Feb 28, 2002
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Yeah the Shelton kid flopped, but the Santee kid is an idiot for even touching the dude in that situation. Hard to feel sorry for them.
 

ALLSTAR

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Jun 28, 2001
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The ref wasn’t even looking at the 2 players when the contact happened. All he saw was the player falling
 

HUSKERFAN66

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The ref wasn’t even looking at the 2 players when the contact happened. All he saw was the player falling
It happened RIGHT in front of the official. ..probably 10 to 15 feet maximum with the ball not in play or ready for play. I think by rule a T is the only thing that could be called. I don't think a personal foul is an option there by rule.

That said, I did see more flopping today than I care to. Youngsters learning from watching bb on TV. Hopefully it's a point of emphasis for next year
 

huskerfan1414

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A couple things
-He had to call a T as the ball hadnt been handed to the player yet
-scroll down in the thread for more videos. That player had been warned for dirty play. Theres video of him elbowing kids in the face on purpose. I have no remorse for him or santee. Hes clearly built a reputation as a dirty player.


-sounds like santee let this game get close by jacking threes instead of wasting time/running an offense, but thats heresay as I didnt watch it all.


I can understand still thinking its a bad call. But considering all the evidence I dont think its as bad a call as it first seems.
 
Dec 30, 2003
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It seems as if the soccer/European player/Lebron-ization of basketball is now complete. It has found its way to small town Nebraska high school ball. Well done Lebron.
 

Mr.Scary13

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Dec 7, 2014
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Doesn't even compare to the refs making up their own rules at the end of regulation in the Duke-Virginia game a couple weeks ago.
 

Dean Pope

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I'll defer to you if there's a better angle. It was still an obvious flop and I really hate seeing that rewarded in that situation.
I agree 100%. Look at it this way, nobody is going to jerk their head back and fall after that little of contact. I got flat out clocked once or twice back when I played and I never fell down, nor was a foul called. This kid fell back as if he got shot by a sniper.

The bottom line: The official has to know the situation and that ref got played. The way the bench is jumping up and down even as the guy is just starting his flop makes it obvious that the kid was told to do that in the huddle and it worked. It's a bush league move but hey, who cares about sportsmanship anymore? Thankfully, the NBA and to a lesser degree NCAA is trying to crack down on the "soccerization" of basketball. Maybe it will filter down to all levels.

And when they limit the flopping, then maybe they can go back to establishing a pivot foot again.
 

Huskers123456

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Been watching a bunch of high school basketball lately. That would be called every time. Did he sell it? Yes. Was it a foul? Yes. Was it a stupid foul? Yes.
 

nostromo78

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A couple things
-He had to call a T as the ball hadnt been handed to the player yet
-scroll down in the thread for more videos. That player had been warned for dirty play. Theres video of him elbowing kids in the face on purpose. I have no remorse for him or santee. Hes clearly built a reputation as a dirty player.


-sounds like santee let this game get close by jacking threes instead of wasting time/running an offense, but thats heresay as I didnt watch it all.


I can understand still thinking its a bad call. But considering all the evidence I dont think its as bad a call as it first seems.
Yeah, I watched the video from the 1st half. Clear cheap shot. And the 2nd angle of the T foul shows him clearly getting too much contact with the ball in the refs hand. IMO, the Santee kid had it coming. Yeah, the other kid flopped a bit, but before the flop, his whole upper body is jarred back from the blow, wasnt a light love tap or anything. Sucks it had to come down to that, and Im all for some rough play, but seems like the kid was a bully, and I love seeing bullies get their comeuppance.
 

Huskers123456

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Yeah, I watched the video from the 1st half. Clear cheap shot. And the 2nd angle of the T foul shows him clearly getting too much contact with the ball in the refs hand. IMO, the Santee kid had it coming. Yeah, the other kid flopped a bit, but before the flop, his whole upper body is jarred back from the blow, wasnt a light love tap or anything. Sucks it had to come down to that, and Im all for some rough play, but seems like the kid was a bully, and I love seeing bullies get their comeuppance.
Yep, zero reason for a forearm, especially when the ball isn't even in play. I watched some pretty rough basketball the other night and never saw anyone throwing forearms.
 

schuele

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Apr 17, 2005
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The Shelton player's teammate chest-bumped him harder afterward, celebrating the call.

Somehow, he remained upright.
 

mgbreeze

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Dec 16, 2004
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Makes no difference. Why is that kid throwing a forearm during an inbounds?
I think the video clearly shows that saying "throwing a forearm" is a vast exaggeration. There is always jostling on any routine inbounds play, and in this situation Santee was trying to inbound with a 1 point lead and like 7 seconds to play. It was also their 3rd inbound attempt because Shelton was fouling to get to the bonus because they were desperate. I don't think the Santee kid did anything remotely close to deserving even a foul, let alone a tech. People who say, "he shouldn't even touch him in that situation" have clearly never played basketball and have no clue how hard it is to inbound the ball in that situation. And finally, the ref was clearly itching to call a tech because he made the call instantly. Should've at least gathered his crew and discussed it in that situation.
 

schuele

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I think the video clearly shows that saying "throwing a forearm" is a vast exaggeration. There is always jostling on any routine inbounds play, and in this situation Santee was trying to inbound with a 1 point lead and like 7 seconds to play. It was also their 3rd inbound attempt because Shelton was fouling to get to the bonus because they were desperate. I don't think the Santee kid did anything remotely close to deserving even a foul, let alone a tech. People who say, "he shouldn't even touch him in that situation" have clearly never played basketball and have no clue how hard it is to inbound the ball in that situation. And finally, the ref was clearly itching to call a tech because he made the call instantly. Should've at least gathered his crew and discussed it in that situation.
On the bright side, the kid from Shelton instantly received a scholarship offer from Wisconsin.

I've been forearmed harder than that in crowded elevators.
 

HUSKERFAN66

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The towns will most likely exist, but their schools will probably be consolidated with other towns.
Can't say about santee but since reservation, I would assume school would be there. Tribal and federal $$. Shelton not going anywhere. Bedroom community for Kearney and grand island.

Could be wrong but I doubt it
 

Huskers123456

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I think the video clearly shows that saying "throwing a forearm" is a vast exaggeration. There is always jostling on any routine inbounds play, and in this situation Santee was trying to inbound with a 1 point lead and like 7 seconds to play. It was also their 3rd inbound attempt because Shelton was fouling to get to the bonus because they were desperate. I don't think the Santee kid did anything remotely close to deserving even a foul, let alone a tech. People who say, "he shouldn't even touch him in that situation" have clearly never played basketball and have no clue how hard it is to inbound the ball in that situation. And finally, the ref was clearly itching to call a tech because he made the call instantly. Should've at least gathered his crew and discussed it in that situation.
Let's just say I've seen all kinds inbounds plays this year and I've yet to seen anything remotely like that. Was that how you were coached to separate? By instigating contact with your forearm? It's playoff time for high school basketball, the roughness gets ramped up. But contact at the rim or battling for a rebound is different than what I saw on that video.
 

mgbreeze

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Let's just say I've seen all kinds inbounds plays this year and I've yet to seen anything remotely like that. Was that how you were coached to separate? By instigating contact with your forearm? It's playoff time for high school basketball, the roughness gets ramped up. But contact at the rim or battling for a rebound is different than what I saw on that video.
Okay, if you watched that video and you think the notable action was the "contact" and not the giant flop then we're just not going to agree. Were you taught to flop?
 

Huskers123456

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Okay, if you watched that video and you think the notable action was the "contact" and not the giant flop then we're just not going to agree. Were you taught to flop?
No.

I said it was a flop. But it was also a foul. He sold it. Has been happening in basketball for decades. People acting like that is new must not have watched or played basketball over the years.

It was an odd move. Weird way to initiate contact for no reason. He wasn't even trying to separate from the way I see it. Just kind of a random cheap shot. How do you not call that?
 
Jun 21, 2001
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It seems like everyone is correct, based on the couple Twitter film clips. There was contact (not hard, but contact nonetheless). It was a flop (obviously sold it more, but too much contact occurred). Ball had not been put into play, so no foul could be called, thus requiring a technical foul by rule.

FWIW, if the teams were reversed and a Shelton player gave a forearm to a Santee player, I am fairly confident the same thing would have been called. That is the definition of consistency, which is what should be the primary goal for any referee.
 

Harry Caray

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I don't think the Santee kid did anything remotely close to deserving even a foul, let alone a tech. People who say, "he shouldn't even touch him in that situation" have clearly never played basketball and have no clue how hard it is to inbound the ball in that situation.

It happened during a dead ball before the ref had even handed the ball to the inbounder. Why the hell would you make contact with your forearm during a dead ball. It was an incredibly dumb play by the Santee kid.
 

Huskers123456

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It happened during a dead ball before the ref had even handed the ball to the inbounder. Why the hell would you make contact with your forearm during a dead ball. It was an incredibly dumb play by the Santee kid.
I find it strange that so many people have such strong opinions about something they are so clearly wrong on. Randomly shoving people clearly isn't part of basketball. The fact it happened before the play even began makes it even more clear. Some real street ball fans on Twitter. Lol.
 

mgbreeze

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Dec 16, 2004
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Randomly shoving people clearly isn't part of basketball.
We just start from completely different premises, because I laugh at the take that he "shoved" him at all. He touched him. Barely. You are engaging in about as much drama as the Shelton kid did.
 

Huskers123456

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We just start from completely different premises, because I laugh at the take that he "shoved" him at all. He touched him. Barely. You are engaging in about as much drama as the Shelton kid did.
Maybe it's just perspective. You clearly grew up playing pick up games in inner city Chicago or somewhere like that. Because I've never seen a basketball game that was officiated where players are allowed to do stuff like that.

Maybe you can explain what he was even doing? Did the inbounding player even have the ball?

You're not secretly Bill Lambier are you? Did you play on the Pistons back in the day?
 

nostromo78

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Someone on the twitter stated that since the ref still had the ball when the play happened, it is a RULE that a technical has to be called. Im not rules guy, and maybe thats BS, but would explain why it was a T and not just a foul.
 

donahues17

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Nov 5, 2005
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Every inbound in the history of basketball has some pushing off.

Lebron missed 6 games because of the extreme push off here. Embarrassing to see high school kids flopping. Need an additional ref to start keeping am eye on floppers. Its ruining basketball.