OT: Sous Vide Cooking
- Thread starter MaroonCrusader
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I'm guessing you aren't one that embraces technology much really... Bluetooth is great for connecting to your phone while in the house so you can monitor and set timers, not only for you but to turn the unit off at a certain time or change temperatures. Wifi takes it a step better, I can adjust my Sous vide while on the other side of the house (bluetooth is short distance) or even when away at work if I'm doing a 24 hour Sous Vide.
Unless you just want to stand in the kitchen non-stop to monitor things. The price the units are now for how much tech they have is a great bargain.
My next kitchen upgrade will be a Vacuum Sealer that can instantly close and thus keep liquids in. A little easier than sucking the air out or the ziploc displacement trick.
If you want flavor to penetrate.. marinate before. that's different than Sous Vide.
Just got mine. Left it on the table. Just came home to this... FYI we are in to feet...
View attachment 10798
View attachment 10798
Well... that's kinda a quarter way right? Maybe?
No saran wrap needed. Just put in the ziploc, do water displacement (but the bag in a container of water. continue displacing air from the bag by putting the bag deeper into the water, seal the bag with AS LITTLE air as possible.
Warm water... keep at constant temperature...
You missed the redneck part though... Put your boat motor or bubbler in the container... Need that water agitation.
I have the Joule and love it. It's 100% controlled through their app which includes options for recipes (recommended cook temperature and times) OR the option to manually set the temp you desire and a timer. I typically scan the recipe to get their recommended temp (app includes pics of what various cook temps will produce), then set it manually. That way I can set my own timer and it won't shut off before I'm ready to finish the cook (sear) and eat.
The more I've used it, I've decided to adjust the temps a little vs what they recommend. I posted earlier with a couple of links that talk about the science and food safety aspects of sous vide cooking (it's actually a LOT safer than just cooking rare or medium rare) AND about how to get the grilled "smokiness" flavor into a sous vide steak.
I don't use it everyday, but it's certainly changed the way I cook chicken and pork. I highly recommend it.
No offense, Scooba, but I disagree. Check out this article to see some science behind marinades and how they work:
https://amazingribs.com/tested-reci...yths-marinades-brinerades-and-how-gashing-can
Just set your oven to broil and put the top rack as high as it'll go. Same result.
You'd be guessing incorrectly. I say it because with sous vide, you're not really supposed to be changing the temperature while you're cooking something. And the other reason is, with sous vide you can go hours past the point your food is done and it won't overcook.
There is zero need to "stand in the kitchen non-stop and monitor". Why on earth would you feel a need to stand and monitor something that is set to reach a specific temp...stay at that temp for a minimum amount of time, but almost a limitless amount past with no harm or change? Unless you're talking about cooking something that should go a couple of hours out to 10 hours or similar, you'll see no real difference. Even in extreme cases, the food won't get more done. Certain foods might get a little too soft if you leave them in many hours past the max time. But considering most recommended windows are already large, you'd have to really try to screw up by leaving it in too long.
If I'm cooking ribeyes and I know they'll be ready in as little as 45 minutes, I'll just set the timer on my sous vide for a few hours, then go back any time I feel like it after at least 45 minutes.
And I would not want to turn mine off remotely and let it cool for hours. If there's a small amount of bacteria remaining and you let the water cool to the "danger zone", for instance below 129 for meat, you're setting it up to magnify in a hurry.
I've been cooking sous vide for a long time, and have never once needed to monitor a thing. One of the great things about sous vide is you can set it up...put your food in the bath and leave it alone for hours if you want to.
The other stuff, IMO is just a gimmick. Same as the trend for ever more higher wattage-rating. At best, a higher wattage rating will get your water to the correct temperature a little sooner, perhaps 10-25 minutes sooner. Since with sous vide you're already planning and starting your cooking in advance , what difference does it really make if you start 1-36 hours ahead or 1-36 hours + 10-25 minutes? These units all cut way back on the power usage once they reach temp anyway, so those extra few hundred watts don't really do much for you practically-speaking.
I say better to save the money so you can buy a nice thermometer, or even buy 2 immersion circulators for the cost of one of the more expensive ones so you can do stuff like, cook steaks at different levels of done at the same time, or cook a 2nd dish (like corn on the cob, or mashed potatoes) without having to wait until the other food is done, then worry about the temperature getting correct.
There is zero need to "stand in the kitchen non-stop and monitor". Why on earth would you feel a need to stand and monitor something that is set to reach a specific temp...stay at that temp for a minimum amount of time, but almost a limitless amount past with no harm or change? Unless you're talking about cooking something that should go a couple of hours out to 10 hours or similar, you'll see no real difference. Even in extreme cases, the food won't get more done. Certain foods might get a little too soft if you leave them in many hours past the max time. But considering most recommended windows are already large, you'd have to really try to screw up by leaving it in too long.
If I'm cooking ribeyes and I know they'll be ready in as little as 45 minutes, I'll just set the timer on my sous vide for a few hours, then go back any time I feel like it after at least 45 minutes.
And I would not want to turn mine off remotely and let it cool for hours. If there's a small amount of bacteria remaining and you let the water cool to the "danger zone", for instance below 129 for meat, you're setting it up to magnify in a hurry.
I've been cooking sous vide for a long time, and have never once needed to monitor a thing. One of the great things about sous vide is you can set it up...put your food in the bath and leave it alone for hours if you want to.
The other stuff, IMO is just a gimmick. Same as the trend for ever more higher wattage-rating. At best, a higher wattage rating will get your water to the correct temperature a little sooner, perhaps 10-25 minutes sooner. Since with sous vide you're already planning and starting your cooking in advance , what difference does it really make if you start 1-36 hours ahead or 1-36 hours + 10-25 minutes? These units all cut way back on the power usage once they reach temp anyway, so those extra few hundred watts don't really do much for you practically-speaking.
I say better to save the money so you can buy a nice thermometer, or even buy 2 immersion circulators for the cost of one of the more expensive ones so you can do stuff like, cook steaks at different levels of done at the same time, or cook a 2nd dish (like corn on the cob, or mashed potatoes) without having to wait until the other food is done, then worry about the temperature getting correct.
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Blacklisted - You seem to have a lot of sous vide experience and I have agreed with pretty much everything you've posted in this thread (as it aligns with my minimal research and experience), so I want to ask your opinion on a question I've been wondering about.
Everyone knows that if you marinate raw chicken, you can't pour the remaining marinade on the chicken after you've cooked it (cold, raw marinade is a bacterial cesspool).
BUT, when you sous vide chicken (especially from frozen, or raw with olive oil/clarified butter in the bag), there is usually a decent amount of seasoned liquid/fat in the bag after the sous vide cook. Is it safe to add that liquid back to the chicken after you've seared it (almost like a sauce). I would assume that it is because, like the chicken, the liquid has been held at temp for a long period of time, so the bacteria should be killed (as you mentioned, it's time vs temp), but I've been hesitant to do it because I haven't found an answer to the question (and decades of experience saying don't add "raw" marinade back to cooked chicken).
Theoretically, you shouldn't need the extra "juice" because SV produces such a juicy cook anyway, but it can add a bit of extra flavor if it's safe.
Everyone knows that if you marinate raw chicken, you can't pour the remaining marinade on the chicken after you've cooked it (cold, raw marinade is a bacterial cesspool).
BUT, when you sous vide chicken (especially from frozen, or raw with olive oil/clarified butter in the bag), there is usually a decent amount of seasoned liquid/fat in the bag after the sous vide cook. Is it safe to add that liquid back to the chicken after you've seared it (almost like a sauce). I would assume that it is because, like the chicken, the liquid has been held at temp for a long period of time, so the bacteria should be killed (as you mentioned, it's time vs temp), but I've been hesitant to do it because I haven't found an answer to the question (and decades of experience saying don't add "raw" marinade back to cooked chicken).
Theoretically, you shouldn't need the extra "juice" because SV produces such a juicy cook anyway, but it can add a bit of extra flavor if it's safe.
Never tried this style of cooking but the description sounds like poaching an egg, but in a plastic bag. Kinda disgusting ....
Yes, the bacteria is killed in the juice. A lot of sous vide recipes call for using the juices of cooked meats to make a gravy. Of course, with that you're cooking some more.
All bacteria is killed by a combination of heat and time subjected to heat. It's a sliding scale, so the longer you keep something at a certain temperature, the lower that temperature can be to kill the bacteria. That's one of the big reasons why sous vide can make foods so much more moist and juicy. The higher the temperature, the more, "well-done" your meat becomes. A by-product of cooking something more well-done is that you lose an ever-increasing amount of juice/moisture the higher you go.
While the juice will stay in the bag at higher temperatures, it will not be in your meat where you really want it, unless you enjoy well-done.
That said, I've not had the best experience using the "juice" left in the bag with steaks. I've not figured out how to get the same flavor and texture on that "external" juice. Throwing it in the hot pan after I sear my steak works, but doesn't taste the same as the juice that flows from the steak itself.
But for me, this is really minor, as I cook my steaks on the rare side of medium rare, so after the sear they are plenty juicy.
All bacteria is killed by a combination of heat and time subjected to heat. It's a sliding scale, so the longer you keep something at a certain temperature, the lower that temperature can be to kill the bacteria. That's one of the big reasons why sous vide can make foods so much more moist and juicy. The higher the temperature, the more, "well-done" your meat becomes. A by-product of cooking something more well-done is that you lose an ever-increasing amount of juice/moisture the higher you go.
While the juice will stay in the bag at higher temperatures, it will not be in your meat where you really want it, unless you enjoy well-done.
That said, I've not had the best experience using the "juice" left in the bag with steaks. I've not figured out how to get the same flavor and texture on that "external" juice. Throwing it in the hot pan after I sear my steak works, but doesn't taste the same as the juice that flows from the steak itself.
But for me, this is really minor, as I cook my steaks on the rare side of medium rare, so after the sear they are plenty juicy.
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The part where you can use the apps recipes and let it set everything for you is the one aspect of the, "bells and whistles ones" where I can perceive value. But then I don't find it much trouble to google a recipe myself and just set the temp, then the timer for well past when I'm sure I'll be getting it out anyway, then go about whatever it is I want to do until I'm ready to pull it out of the sous vide and finish it (just as you say).
RocketDawg, you're an engineer...a freaking rocket-scientist! You must be held to a higher standard. You know cooking in a vacuum-sealed environment where the food doesn't actually touch water is bound to be vastly different.
Said earlier, but will say again. Try cooking a ribeye via sous vide, and one by boiling it. You'll see the difference.
Said earlier, but will say again. Try cooking a ribeye via sous vide, and one by boiling it. You'll see the difference.
I can see how Sous Vide would be advantageous on a 2" Tomahawk. The first one that I cooked was burned on the outside and cold on the inside. For a 1" ribeye I get the egg up to 650-700 and cook 3 minutes per side and that will usually get me to 130. This doesn't work on a 2" steak. I have learned to cook a 2" steak by smoking at 225 indirect over a plate setter to about 125 internal temp. I then pull the steaks and set aside. My battery powered leaf blower will get the egg up to 650-700 in a couple of minutes. Put the steaks back on and sear for a couple of minutes each side.
But keep in mind, there can still be a minimal amount of bacteria that survives. Standard call for it to be below a certain, healthy threshold. Once your food drops into the, "danger zone" temperature wise bacteria can start multiplying exponentially. So, if your saved juices get into this zone while you are finishing your chicken, you might be asking for trouble.
At least that's my understanding.
At least that's my understanding.
You make a very valid point on steak thickness. Sous vide doesn't offer much, if any benefit for steaks thinner than 1.5". By the time you get the sear, you no longer have much of the sous vide benefit.
Traditional heat, whether direct or indirect can't give the same results. As far as I know, the only way to get meat to be, "medium rare" (or whatever you like less than well-done) all the way through the meat, from surface-to-surface is via sous vide. The method you describe requires the heat to pass from the surface through to the middle, and with those methods, even if your source is, say, 130 degrees, the meat will continue to cook .
Think of it this way....if you put a steak in the oven at 130 degrees and leave it there overnight, will it still be medium rare in the morning? Nope. But it will be with sous vide.
Super high heat is probably the next best thing, as you can get that nice char quickly leaving more of the "middle" of the steak less-done. But you still get some gradation before you arrive at 130 degrees in the center. With souse vide, that steak is the same, surface-to-surface, so for me, medium rare all the way through...which also means it's lost less "juice" than something that was 130 in the very center, then 131, 132, 133....150, etc.
Since the sear is so quick, it doesn't cook the meat past the surface in any perceptible way.
But again, I'll say, other methods make great food as well. I like a ribeye pan-seared in a super-heated cast-iron skillet for 30 seconds per side, followed by 2 minutes per side in a 500 degree oven. I like it almost as much as my sous vide steak, and it's my choice when I want to eat sooner than an hour.
But I've never come remotely close to making corn-on-the-cob as perfect as I have via sous-vide. Take fresh cobs, remove the husk, throw them in a vacuum-sealed bag with a couple pads of butter and salt, sous vide them at the right temp and they come out unbelievable. The butter and salt get into every nook and cranny, so you don't have to better ot salt them after. And the have the perfect amount of crunch and moisture. Youi can literally set the sous vide temp at the precise level the pectins are released (183 degrees). This is one of those rare cases where you don't want to leave it on much longer than 30 minutes, though. Some items are pretty fragile when it comes to how long they are cooked, even with sous vide.
Traditional heat, whether direct or indirect can't give the same results. As far as I know, the only way to get meat to be, "medium rare" (or whatever you like less than well-done) all the way through the meat, from surface-to-surface is via sous vide. The method you describe requires the heat to pass from the surface through to the middle, and with those methods, even if your source is, say, 130 degrees, the meat will continue to cook .
Think of it this way....if you put a steak in the oven at 130 degrees and leave it there overnight, will it still be medium rare in the morning? Nope. But it will be with sous vide.
Super high heat is probably the next best thing, as you can get that nice char quickly leaving more of the "middle" of the steak less-done. But you still get some gradation before you arrive at 130 degrees in the center. With souse vide, that steak is the same, surface-to-surface, so for me, medium rare all the way through...which also means it's lost less "juice" than something that was 130 in the very center, then 131, 132, 133....150, etc.
Since the sear is so quick, it doesn't cook the meat past the surface in any perceptible way.
But again, I'll say, other methods make great food as well. I like a ribeye pan-seared in a super-heated cast-iron skillet for 30 seconds per side, followed by 2 minutes per side in a 500 degree oven. I like it almost as much as my sous vide steak, and it's my choice when I want to eat sooner than an hour.
But I've never come remotely close to making corn-on-the-cob as perfect as I have via sous-vide. Take fresh cobs, remove the husk, throw them in a vacuum-sealed bag with a couple pads of butter and salt, sous vide them at the right temp and they come out unbelievable. The butter and salt get into every nook and cranny, so you don't have to better ot salt them after. And the have the perfect amount of crunch and moisture. Youi can literally set the sous vide temp at the precise level the pectins are released (183 degrees). This is one of those rare cases where you don't want to leave it on much longer than 30 minutes, though. Some items are pretty fragile when it comes to how long they are cooked, even with sous vide.
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I'm mostly talking about chicken here. With experience, I've settled on 147 as the best temp for chicken (VERY slight pink, super tender, super juicy) and I do a minimum of 2 hours for a frozen breast, but have easily let it sit for 4+ before (start the cook, then take it out whenever we're ready to eat).
I agree 100% with what you've said about time vs temp (kinda like pasteurization of milk), so I have to believe that the sauce is OK, but I have 40 years of life experience screaming NO!!!
I agree 100% with what you've said about time vs temp (kinda like pasteurization of milk), so I have to believe that the sauce is OK, but I have 40 years of life experience screaming NO!!!
So, you're saying that 184 for 30 min is the best corn on the cob ever?
My wife is an Iowa girl and she is intrigued.
Tell me more.
My wife is an Iowa girl and she is intrigued.
Tell me more.
Lol. I know what you mean. For me it's eating burgers less than well-done. I always order well done at restaurants or when grilling because there's some seriously bad stuff that can happen, even if it seldom happens and most often only a bit of food poisoning. But I don't want to be the one-in-whatever that gets seriously ill from eating an under-cooked burger.
With sous vide, I can have it just the way I like it, super juicy, even if that means it's a little pink on the inside, because it's safe with sous vide. Still, there's that programmed aversion to eating "pink" ground beef.
With sous vide, I can have it just the way I like it, super juicy, even if that means it's a little pink on the inside, because it's safe with sous vide. Still, there's that programmed aversion to eating "pink" ground beef.
https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/08/sous-vide-your-way-to-the-best-corn-food-lab.html
Science can be a wonderful thing.
Make sure you go with fresh corn. Makes a huge difference. Let me know what you and your wife think.
Science can be a wonderful thing.
Make sure you go with fresh corn. Makes a huge difference. Let me know what you and your wife think.
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If you were participating on another,"trip-to-the-moon" today, would you advocate for the Saturn V, or might you consider newer technology?
The Saturn V was awfully good. If we could remake it, I would (it's actually been studied to do just that). They've been diddling around with the SLV for over 10 years now and it still hasn't flown.
I agree on all points, but it's amazing to me how many of my friends will go to a restaurant and order basically raw hamburger.
I suspect many don't realize the difference between steak and ground beef when it comes to bacteria (E Coli, Salmonella, Listeria). That or they think the odds of getting really sick are low enough that the risk/reward is worth it. Not me.
Oysters on the half-shell are worth the risk for me. A hamburger is not.
Oysters on the half-shell are worth the risk for me. A hamburger is not.
That's what I get for trying to use rockets as a prop for a joke when kidding a rocket scientist.
Haha. The main drawback to remaking the Saturn V is lack of tooling. It's all gone. Otherwise, that's what we'd be doing, I'm pretty sure. The SLV will be quite a bit larger (more thrust and payload capability), but it's progressing slowly. Funding was basically unlimited back in the '60s when the Saturns were developed though ... not so now.
What are your thoughts on Musk's reusable rockets in his SpaceX program specifically and also what are your thoughts in general about private ventures such as this?
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FYI - I researched the issue I was having with the juice from steaks not doing well in a hot pan for juice. Turns out with beef, the protein released into the juice does not lend itself to "cooking down" in a hot pan. It solidifies and imparts a funky taste and feel to the juices.
ETA: Sous Vide Update
First cook on the sous vide. Did some top sirloin with the rump cap..Brazilian Pichana style. Cooked at 135 for 2.5 hrs. Best steak I’ve ever made.
<a href="https://ibb.co/hXP959"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/cG3fCp/0_DE4_F72_C_A30_F_481_C_8_F22_C8_C02150960_E.jpg" alt="0_DE4_F72_C_A30_F_481_C_8_F22_C8_C02150960_E" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/iaofCp"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/j0fGk9/704_A09_AB_24_EE_451_D_A89_D_0215_C1_C15441.jpg" alt="704_A09_AB_24_EE_451_D_A89_D_0215_C1_C15441" border="0"></a>
First cook on the sous vide. Did some top sirloin with the rump cap..Brazilian Pichana style. Cooked at 135 for 2.5 hrs. Best steak I’ve ever made.
<a href="https://ibb.co/hXP959"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/cG3fCp/0_DE4_F72_C_A30_F_481_C_8_F22_C8_C02150960_E.jpg" alt="0_DE4_F72_C_A30_F_481_C_8_F22_C8_C02150960_E" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/iaofCp"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/j0fGk9/704_A09_AB_24_EE_451_D_A89_D_0215_C1_C15441.jpg" alt="704_A09_AB_24_EE_451_D_A89_D_0215_C1_C15441" border="0"></a>
Sorry for the late response. We did try it. Unfortunately, the corn I picked from the store was not very good quality. However, the cooking method was on point. Will definitely need to try it again with better ears of corn.
Looks great! Gotta love that medium rare all the way through except for the surface char. Wait until you try it with some nice cuts of Ribeye.
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