OT: Payroll tax holiday

PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
8,508
2
0
Little bit of a PSA. I know there were some questions asked about this back when Trump signed the executive order and there wasnt clear answers. I was just getting ready to work on payroll for the town I work for so I emailed the CPA that works on our budget/audit to see exactly when that took place and how it works. For those that want to take the payroll tax holiday, know that it is actually just a FICA deferment until January. It took effect on September 1st. If you elect to take the "holiday", they will not hold out the 6.2% for the rest of the year. But starting in January when folks are a little tight on money after Christmas, they will double the FICA tax they hold out until you have paid back what you deferred. So if you take it just know that starting in January they will be holding out 13.85% until you have paid it back.

Edited to say it is actually up to the employer more than the employee if they decide to take the holiday because if an employee decides to defer the 6.2% and then quits their job and goes to another (I know that will all depend on what the January job market looks like) job, then it is the employers responsibility to pay back the deferred amount.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
60,660
31,994
113
This thing is a bigger cluster-17 than the PPP loans. It appears to be a bad deal. UNLESS Congress passes a relief bill forgiving the deferred FICA taxes, which wouldn’t surprise me at all. Very poorly thought out and blatant pandering for votes by Trump in my opinion.
 

fishwater99

Freshman
Jun 4, 2007
14,073
54
48
We are not giving the relief to our employees. Opted out of the payroll tax holiday, due to they way it has to be paid back.
 

PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
8,508
2
0
Social Security is already set to run out in the next decade or so, making it permanent will only hasten that. I'm not for raising taxes in most cases (I personally wouldnt mind to see capital gains taxes raised a little so that the fat cats effective tax rate is closer to the blue collar workers) but I'm not for cutting a tax that pays for an entitlement. We already have way to much unfunded liabilities as is. I personally think reelecting him will definitely be better for businesses and workers but I wouldnt cast a vote simply to get the 6.2% permanent "raise."
 

GloryDawg

Heisman
Mar 3, 2005
20,741
19,735
113
On the flip side if the employer don't give the holiday and the tax is forgiven for that period what happens then? It is best to give the holiday and let adults make thier own decision as to either spend it or save it to pay back later.
 

PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
8,508
2
0
I dont know how that would be handled but the easiest way (which means Congress wont do it this way) would be to provide a credit on your 2021 tax return for the amount that you could have taken and had forgiven. And I agree on letting adults make their own decisions, but these employers have no idea what the economic landscape is going to look like in January 2021, just to many variables out there right now. If they allow their employees to take the holiday and say Biden gets elected and the economy tanks in 2021, they could be royally 17ed. If the company has to lay a ton of people off that took the holiday, then that will be a huge liability that they will owe for the employees no longer working.
 

GloryDawg

Heisman
Mar 3, 2005
20,741
19,735
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I dont know how that would be handled but the easiest way (which means Congress wont do it this way) would be to provide a credit on your 2021 tax return for the amount that you could have taken and had forgiven. And I agree on letting adults make their own decisions, but these employers have no idea what the economic landscape is going to look like in January 2021, just to many variables out there right now. If they allow their employees to take the holiday and say Biden gets elected and the economy tanks in 2021, they could be royally 17ed. If the company has to lay a ton of people off that took the holiday, then that will be a huge liability that they will owe for the employees no longer working.

Taking the employee out of the picture and talking employer only. Why would you not take the holiday yourself? You invest the money until when and if it comes due. Better to invest it and make you money than to give to the goverment to spend. Not sure if the employer part is suspended. I have not really looked at it and didn't really care.
 
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Len2003

Redshirt
May 13, 2018
1,103
0
36
If we re-elect Trump it will be permanent

You really think Congress is going to discontinue Medicare and SS? Those are two of the most popular government programs across party lines. No one can win a national campaign being against those two programs, which is why Trump was one of two Republican candidates (Huckabee was the other) that ran on keeping SS and Medicare. The Republican Party was so out of touch on this issue, and it looks like they still are.
 

UpTheMiddlex3Punt

All-Conference
May 28, 2007
18,103
4,177
113
Taking the employee out of the picture and talking employer only. Why would you not take the holiday yourself? You invest the money until when and if it comes due. Better to invest it and make you money than to give to the goverment to spend. Not sure if the employer part is suspended. I have not really looked at it and didn't really care.
And if your employer does give you the FICA tax holiday, you should put the money into TSLA calls.
 

ronpolk

All-American
May 6, 2009
9,426
5,357
113
You really think Congress is going to discontinue Medicare and SS? Those are two of the most popular government programs across party lines. No one can win a national campaign being against those two programs, which is why Trump was one of two Republican candidates (Huckabee was the other) that ran on keeping SS and Medicare. The Republican Party was so out of touch on this issue, and it looks like they still are.

I’m not real sure it’s something that is supported by republicans. This current payroll break is via an executive order, right? No chance Congress, republican or democrat controlled, passes a bill to do away with payroll taxes.
 

Hugh's Burner Phone

All-American
Aug 3, 2017
5,493
6,482
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I’m not real sure it’s something that is supported by republicans. This current payroll break is via an executive order, right? No chance Congress, republican or democrat controlled, passes a bill to do away with payroll taxes.

The making them permanent doesn't refer to the taxes from now to infinity. It's just saying he'll make this deferment permanent so that won't have to be paid back. Starting January 1, the tax comes back out either way. It's just a manager of if it's at the regular rate or doubled.
 

Jeffreauxdawg

All-American
Dec 15, 2017
8,891
8,003
113
I’m not real sure it’s something that is supported by republicans. This current payroll break is via an executive order, right? No chance Congress, republican or democrat controlled, passes a bill to do away with payroll taxes.

This.^ It's a trap.

Hypothetical congressional election in 2022. 2 candidates stop by to see an influential elderly woman at a retirement community...

R's: Hi Ethel. I'm Congressman Peckerwood. My opponent voted to defund police. Ethel- "That bastard."

D's: Hi Ethel. I'm Congressman Peckerchecker. My opponent voted to defund Social Security and Medicaid. Ethel- "That cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-***, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey **** he is! Hallelujah! Holy ****! Where's my mail in ballot?"
 

SheltonChoked

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,786
0
0
On the flip side if the employer don't give the holiday and the tax is forgiven for that period what happens then? It is best to give the holiday and let adults make thier own decision as to either spend it or save it to pay back later.

I'm fairly certain that if you overpay your taxes, they give it back. I think it's called a tax refund.
 

PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
8,508
2
0
Not sure I understand your question. The employer (the business, not the actual employer's salary) will still have to pay their matching 6.2%(7.65% counting medicare tax) either quarterly or weekly depending on the size of the operation for the rest of the year. So nothing will change on their end with this holiday, unless as I mentioned earlier they have to layoff employees or employees quit to duck the payback, in which case they have to foot the bill. So if they are a smaller business and only have to pay quarterly, I guess theoretically they could invest that money until its due at the end of the quarter. But if that investment loses money then that is money that would have to come out of the business's bottom line. I'm not sure on what the recent laws are for payroll and auditing but I dont know that it would be legal to invest money that is withheld or owed for payroll taxes. Laws may limit that in the instance where the company invested the owed money, lost it, and then couldnt pay their payroll tax liability. Thats where the audit would come into play.

And if I misunderstood your question I apologize. I dont know that I have pondered a business issue and thought out the scenarios (not just your question but the whole situation) this hard since I was in school.
 

GloryDawg

Heisman
Mar 3, 2005
20,741
19,735
113
Not sure I understand your question. The employer (the business, not the actual employer's salary) will still have to pay their matching 6.2%(7.65% counting medicare tax) either quarterly or weekly depending on the size of the operation for the rest of the year. So nothing will change on their end with this holiday, unless as I mentioned earlier they have to layoff employees or employees quit to duck the payback, in which case they have to foot the bill. So if they are a smaller business and only have to pay quarterly, I guess theoretically they could invest that money until its due at the end of the quarter. But if that investment loses money then that is money that would have to come out of the business's bottom line. I'm not sure on what the recent laws are for payroll and auditing but I dont know that it would be legal to invest money that is withheld or owed for payroll taxes. Laws may limit that in the instance where the company invested the owed money, lost it, and then couldnt pay their payroll tax liability. Thats where the audit would come into play.

And if I misunderstood your question I apologize. I dont know that I have pondered a business issue and thought out the scenarios (not just your question but the whole situation) this hard since I was in school.

I wasn't sure about the employers share but you answered it.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,205
5,749
113
This thing is a bigger cluster-17 than the PPP loans. It appears to be a bad deal. UNLESS Congress passes a relief bill forgiving the deferred FICA taxes, which wouldn’t surprise me at all. Very poorly thought out and blatant pandering for votes by Trump in my opinion.

I think the politics on it were pretty good. It's pretty clear that recognizing math and reality is a sure fire way to lose an election. So it's not a big leap to realize that you can "bribe" people with a payroll tax holiday, and even when it can no longer be deferred by executive action, it's going to be hard politics for Congress to not forgive it.

The only reason it wasn't a genius move (taking as a given that our politicians are going to be as bad as the electorate as far as pretending we don't have to tax people to pay for entitlements) is that my impression is not many employers are taking advantage of it because of the potential liability and inability to collect for employees that leave for another job when the deferral ends. So I'm not sure how it's going to move the needle at all.
 

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
15,205
5,749
113
You really think Congress is going to discontinue Medicare and SS? Those are two of the most popular government programs across party lines. No one can win a national campaign being against those two programs, which is why Trump was one of two Republican candidates (Huckabee was the other) that ran on keeping SS and Medicare. The Republican Party was so out of touch on this issue, and it looks like they still are.
I don't think republicans are out of touch on that issue. They understand that voters want money and goodies from the government and that they want other people to pay for them with taxes. Republicans still sort of pretend to be responsible and pointing out that we aren't really willing to pay the amount of taxes that would be required to pay for the "promises" boomers have made to themselves was part of being responsible. I don't think you will see many prominent republicans raising this issue any more. There's no will to do anything about it and it's just a negative for election chances with no hope of actually accopmlishing anything. We'll do something about Social security in 12-15 years when the "trust fund" no longer automatically moves money from teh general funds to pay for social security benefits without an appropriation.
 

SyonaraStanz

Senior
Mar 5, 2010
3,229
583
113
Social Security is already set to run out in the next decade or so, making it permanent will only hasten that. I'm not for raising taxes in most cases (I personally wouldnt mind to see capital gains taxes raised a little so that the fat cats effective tax rate is closer to the blue collar workers) but I'm not for cutting a tax that pays for an entitlement. We already have way to much unfunded liabilities as is. I personally think reelecting him will definitely be better for businesses and workers but I wouldnt cast a vote simply to get the 6.2% permanent "raise."

According to Kayleigh McEneny, the payroll tax forgiveness would be funded from the General Fund, so it will have no effect on the SS funds. Not sure of the accuracy of that statement, but she made that claim this morning on Fox News.
 

Hugh's Burner Phone

All-American
Aug 3, 2017
5,493
6,482
113
Explain how cutting the funding for social security and Medicare == Protecting social security and Medicare?

Because he isn't cutting anything. He's just reducing the amount of future spending. If you paid $500/month for food in 2020 but had budgeted $700/month for 2021 but then decided to only spend $600 in 2021 you didn't cut funding. You decreased the amount of increase. Only to a far left dem would that be deemed a cut.
 

SheltonChoked

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,786
0
0
It's a payroll tax not income tax. I think you are right they will figure it out.

Speaking from experience ( I changed jobs midyear and double paid my Social Security one year), they apply the overage on payroll taxes to income taxes, and give you a refund if they need too.
 

SheltonChoked

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
1,786
0
0
Because he isn't cutting anything. He's just reducing the amount of future spending. If you paid $500/month for food in 2020 but had budgeted $700/month for 2021 but then decided to only spend $600 in 2021 you didn't cut funding. You decreased the amount of increase. Only to a far left dem would that be deemed a cut.

The GOP Platform, if re-elected, is to stop the collection of the payroll tax on 91% of Americans, permanently. Payroll taxes fund Social Security and Medicare. Without that funding, there is no Social Security and Medicare.

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To explain in your analogy, he is cutting the income to $0. You still are obligated to spend $700. You have $1,400 in savings.

And I'm just using what he said and wrote.
 
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