OT: in the dark podcast

mount lefroy

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Feb 10, 2013
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If you haven’t listened, you need to.

I don’t have any direct knowledge of Flowers guilt or innocence. But it is clear that none of the 6 trials has ever been anything close to what our constitution deems as fair. Not one.

It is a disgrace that two young journalists can walk in and punch so many holes in the case.

It is also a disgrace that 3 of the trials resulted in the Mississippi Supreme Court throwing out verdicts due to prosecutorial misconduct and yet that DA has never been held accountable.

Had all required evidence been provided to the defense, this could have been fairly tried.

It’s sickening.



Edited to add: Dont be discouraged in the early going if the 2 girl reporters seem a bit liberal or naive. They are both of those. However, they uncover facts closer to the end that are astounding.
 
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tired

All-Conference
Sep 16, 2013
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I've read a bit on it. Seem like a professional hit to you?
 

mcdawg22

Heisman
Sep 18, 2004
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All the way through I thought that.

In the end, all that was stolen was $300. I think the suspect the reporters talked to, willie, did it
The was a two part series on STARZ about it too called Wrong Man. After watching that you think it may be two other people. I don’t know Flowers didn’t do it, but there is not enough to say he did.
 

BlueRidgeMtns

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Nov 29, 2016
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That's what I don't understand. That DA was repeatedly caught discriminating against jurors and they keep letting him try the case.

not a good look
 

greenbean.sixpack

All-American
Oct 6, 2012
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For any lawyers on the board, why no change of venue? It seems like Curtis has very poor representation.
 

tired

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Sep 16, 2013
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If you haven’t listened, you need to.


Edited to add: Dont be discouraged in the early going if the 2 girl reporters seem a bit liberal or naive. They are both of those. However, they uncover facts closer to the end that are astounding.

Is there something I could read regarding this? I'm not one to sit and listen, I'd rather read about it.
 

greenbean.sixpack

All-American
Oct 6, 2012
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Thanks all!

Another question, if the rampant maleficence of the DA and various Judges is true, has there been any censure from the MS Supreme Court (or Bar Association for the DA)?

Has a high profile, publicity-hungry attorney (like Mike Geragos, I realize an attorney will have to be licensed in MS) ever considered taking up the case?
 

AFDawg

Senior
Apr 28, 2010
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They may be liberal, but I don't think they're naive. Naiveté would be trusting the DA after all they uncovered.
 
Nov 16, 2012
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Flowers did it there’s just very little evidence to present in trial to a jury. The DA is doing his job by protecting his community from a killer.

The SJW are just that. Did you listen to season 1 where they want to abolish the registration of sex offenders?

How about them spending an enormous amount of time counting the black jurors struck by the DA but not how many whites were struck by the defense?
 

greenbean.sixpack

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Oct 6, 2012
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How about them spending an enormous amount of time counting the black jurors struck by the DA but not how many whites were struck by the defense?

Because the juries were almost all white, yet Montgomery County is 45% black, 53% white (according to the 2010 census). I've always assumed Curtis was guilty but didn't realize the investigative work was so sloppy. How can the gun found in 2001 just disappear? I wouldn't be surprised if a good lawyer could get Curtis off.
 

tired

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Sep 16, 2013
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Flowers did it there’s just very little evidence to present in trial to a jury. The DA is doing his job by protecting his community from a killer.

The SJW are just that. Did you listen to season 1 where they want to abolish the registration of sex offenders?

How about them spending an enormous amount of time counting the black jurors struck by the DA but not how many whites were struck by the defense?

I'm not saying he didn't, but why are you so sure he did.
 

mount lefroy

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Feb 10, 2013
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Flowers did it there’s just very little evidence to present in trial to a jury. The DA is doing his job by protecting his community from a killer.

The SJW are just that. Did you listen to season 1 where they want to abolish the registration of sex offenders?

How about them spending an enormous amount of time counting the black jurors struck by the DA but not how many whites were struck by the defense?

The DA was found 3 times as committing prosecutorial misconduct. Whether Flowers is guilty or not isn’t the issue. If you were accused of a crime you didn’t commit would the da be justified in breaking the rule of law because he believed in your guilt?

If you do, damn.
 
Nov 16, 2012
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Because the juries were almost all white, yet Montgomery County is 45% black, 53% white (according to the 2010 census). I've always assumed Curtis was guilty but didn't realize the investigative work was so sloppy. How can the gun found in 2001 just disappear? I wouldn't be surprised if a good lawyer could get Curtis off.

I don't trust SJW without a filter. IF IF IF flowers didn't do it we would know by now.
 

squintdawg

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Jun 4, 2003
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Regardless if whether he did it (after researching it - I believe there are other more probable suspects) - there is no way there was/is evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact that it has been tried 6 times and many of which are directly due to the DA breaking the law is why Mississippi will continue to have the perception it does. That guy is a clown!
 

msu86

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Sep 17, 2015
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It’s like this...if you listen to ONLY CNN, Trump is a TERRIBLE President. If you listen to ONLY FOX, Trump is the best President ever.
I love In The Dark but I also realize I am listening to a liberal with her mind made up to make me think one way. Is he guilty? I don’t know but I really don’t think 6 juries in a row would get it wrong...regardless of color.
 

civildawg88

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Aug 22, 2012
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It’s like this...if you listen to ONLY CNN, Trump is a TERRIBLE President. If you listen to ONLY FOX, Trump is the best President ever.
I love In The Dark but I also realize I am listening to a liberal with her mind made up to make me think one way. Is he guilty? I don’t know but I really don’t think 6 juries in a row would get it wrong...regardless of color.

This right here
 
Sep 4, 2012
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None of those convictions have stuck. Half have been thrown out due to misconduct.

Although I agree with you about taking what is said with a grain of salt, the fact is the DA has presented nothing concrete. The biggest piece of evidence comes from a guy who murdered several people, and has since recanted his testimony.
 

kb549

Sophomore
Oct 6, 2014
835
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You should listen to the podcast

This right here
With an open mind. All the way through to the end. I’ve always thought we had a great justice system that works. Until I started listening to podcasts on wrongful conviction cases. Serial started it for me.

I don’t know of Flowers is guilty, but after what she uncovered, he NEVER got a fair trial. Most all of the “evidence” and eye witness statements got debunked. The eye witnesses to his route were scared of the police and went along with them. There was a gun found that the prosecutor made disappear apparently.

I promise you that if this was you or your child on trial, you would be outraged at the prosecutor’s misconduct.

It makes me sick to think of how many wrongfully convicted people are sitting in prison. Their liberty taken from them. If you think it doesn’t happen very often, listen to Wrongful Conviction podcast. Eaxh episode interviews people who have been exhonerated. Mostly poor people of color who couldn’t afford a good defense. Prosecutors wanting to close up cases no matter if they got the right person or not (see Flowers case.)

If you believe that a few wrongful convictions is ok in the grand scheme of things, think about airline safety. Would you get on a plane if, statistically, 1 in every 100 planes crashed? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000? No one would fly. We don’t know how many people are wrongly in jail, but some people estimate it could be 10%. I believe it’s probably closer to 1% locally, 10% in high population areas.

Other good podcasts spinoffs from Serial
Truth & Justice
Undisclosed
 

civildawg88

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Aug 22, 2012
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I have listened to the podcast and it is really hard for me to believe that a jury found him guilty 6 times even with black jurors so throw all the race crap away. The point is the podcast is so slanted to one side that there has to be alot of stuff they arent telling us that the jurors in those court rooms saw or heard.
 

kb549

Sophomore
Oct 6, 2014
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I don’t think so. I believe it is much more a problem with juror mindset. If he is on trial, he must have done it. Especially in the case where you have a horrendous crime. The prosecution gets the benefit of doubt in most people’s mind. Why would they lie? In America, we aren’t innocent until proven guilty. We are guilty until proven innocent.

I’m going to court tomorrow for a speeding ticket. Was I speeding? Yes. Will the officer bring ANY evidence to support it other than his testimony? Nope. He is a cop, so he can’t lie or be wrong. So I’m not even fighting it. Just hoping he doesn’t show up.
 

Wizard.sixpack

Freshman
Sep 15, 2009
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If you haven’t listened, you need to.

I don’t have any direct knowledge of Flowers guilt or innocence. But it is clear that none of the 6 trials has ever been anything close to what our constitution deems as fair. Not one.

It is a disgrace that two young journalists can walk in and punch so many holes in the case.

It is also a disgrace that 3 of the trials resulted in the Mississippi Supreme Court throwing out verdicts due to prosecutorial misconduct and yet that DA has never been held accountable.

Had all required evidence been provided to the defense, this could have been fairly tried.

It’s sickening.



Edited to add: Dont be discouraged in the early going if the 2 girl reporters seem a bit liberal or naive. They are both of those. However, they uncover facts closer to the end that are astounding.


You forgot to add that Doug Evans is a POS! Listened to this podcast and am in utter disgust. Curtis Flowers is innocent and it is shameful that he is still in prison. **SPOILER** I could'nt believe when I heard the part about the one guy that was released as a suspect even though he wore the same damn shoes that made the footprints at the crime scene...unbelievable.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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The DA was found 3 times as committing prosecutorial misconduct. Whether Flowers is guilty or not isn’t the issue. If you were accused of a crime you didn’t commit would the da be justified in breaking the rule of law because he believed in your guilt?

If you do, damn.

I have just looked at wikipedia, but it doesn't really allege prosecutorial misconduct.
1st trial: the prosecutor introduced evidence to prove crimes beyond the tardy murders. (pushing the limits of teh ruels of evidence is not misconduct; even if in error, the trial judge apparently thought it was close enough to let go)
2nd trial: the court again allowed evidence regarding other crimes (this one in Harrison county; one of if not the best county in Mississippi to have a trial untainted by racial issues)
3rd trial: overturned b/c the prosecution struck a lot of potential black jurors and ended up with a 10-2 white-black split on the jury. That may be a good reason to declare a mistrial, but if that's the grounds for mistrial, that has no relevance to the actual verdict. There's no reason to assume the ten whites and the two blacks on the jury are racist against black people.
4th trial: a hung jury, 7-5 to convict
5th trial: a hung jury 11-1 to convict
6th trial: another unanimous vote to convict.

Maybe there are all sorts of things the prosecutor did that he should be punished for, but that doesn't mean the guy isn't guilty.
 

Hoo22

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
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Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is the fact that the state's key witness, Odell Hallmon, the jailhouse snitch who's testified in all of the State's trials that Flowers confessed to him, freely admits on the podcast that he made the whole thing up to get out and stay out of jail. The DA repeatedly got him out of pending criminal charges through the years to keep him in good graces and in return he kept testifying at each subsequent trial. All the way up until he murdered his girlfriend and her mother and tried to kill his own son. This guy should have been locked up years ago, but was not only on the street until two innocent people lost their lives, he also put a man away with perjury.

I don't know if Curtis Flowers is guilty or innocent, but there is no way you can say these trials were fair.
 

Dawgg

Heisman
Sep 9, 2012
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I have listened to the podcast and it is really hard for me to believe that a jury found him guilty 6 times even with black jurors so throw all the race crap away. The point is the podcast is so slanted to one side that there has to be alot of stuff they arent telling us that the jurors in those court rooms saw or heard.

6 juries didn't find him guilty.
A majority is not a conviction in Mississippi. Only unanimity is.

That sixth trial was an 11:1 white to black ratio in a 50/50 county.
 

Dawgg

Heisman
Sep 9, 2012
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Also... just to be clear... I don't know if Curtis Flowers did or did not commit these murders. That's not the point.

The larger issue is the bungling by the police, the malpractice by the prosecutor, 'fixing the evidence to fit the narrative', and the focus on DA conviction rates. Realistically, it starts to get to a point where the prosecution and the police have made it almost impossible that Curtis Flowers would ever get a fair trial. I feel like, in those cases, you need to err on the side of release. I lean toward "let 1,000 guilty go free before convicting 1 innocent" though.

"Making a Murderer" gave me the same problems with our justice system.
So did the Stephanie Stephens trial.

Save your 'whatabouts' and 'if it was your family member that was murdered'... because yes, when bad things have happened to the people I love (and yes, they sure as hell have), I've wanted justice. And when we couldn't get justice, I'm not too proud to say, I simply wanted blood. I wanted vengeance. Even now typing this, I still do, so I shouldn't even type that in the past tense. I get so 17ing angry thinking about that guy walking around while we're left to pick up the pieces. Sorry... I got a little triggered and emotional on that.

Still... in the larger whole... it's scary how easily an innocent person could go to prison... could be killed by the state...
It's a real problem, regardless of how you feel about Curtis Flowers (or Steven Avery or whoever) and his guilt or innocence.
 
Nov 16, 2012
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Amazing to me that some of you would believe a SJW entertainment podcast selling MLM ads over a system of checks / balances. Who is vetting her material?
 

Bcash2

Redshirt
Sep 20, 2012
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I'm admittedly skeptical of those in positions of great power...

Amazing to me that some of you would believe a SJW entertainment podcast selling MLM ads over a system of checks / balances. Who is vetting her material?

...at any level, in any organization, especially when they are incentivized to abuse said power.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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Anyone could make a 2-hour documentary that would convince most people that Hitler was a victim of false accusations if those people didn't already know about the real history of WWII. So, always take any of these types of shows with a HUGE grain of salt. However, in this case, there are multiple documented cases of misconduct by the prosecution. Whether he's guilty or not, that's at least as much of a problem as the crime he's accused of. At some point, the DA should face criminal charges for such blatant abuse of his position.
 

Dawgg

Heisman
Sep 9, 2012
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It's well known...

Amazing to me that some of you would believe a SJW entertainment podcast selling MLM ads over a system of checks / balances. Who is vetting her material?

... credible podcasts only advertise Blue Apron, Maroon & Co, Campus Bookmart, and Squarespace***

Sooooooooooooooo this country's system of checks and balances is a totally different thing from our criminal justice system... which is kind of a mess.

Not because our criminal justice is specifically bad... moreso that it's applied by humans and that means that in many cases, it's grossly misapplied or the extent to which it's applied varies too greatly.
 

kb549

Sophomore
Oct 6, 2014
835
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Wow

johnson86 said:
I have just looked at wikipedia, but it doesn't really allege prosecutorial misconduct.
1st trial: the prosecutor introduced evidence to prove crimes beyond the tardy murders. (pushing the limits of teh ruels of evidence is not misconduct; even if in error, the trial judge apparently thought it was close enough to let go)

WIKI- The court stated that "what may be harmless error in a case with less at stake becomes reversible error when the penalty is death." They (MS Supreme Court) said Flowers' Sixth and Fourteenth amendment rights had been violated by "the prosecutor repeatedly mentioning the other killings".

Maybe the trial judge needs to brush up on constitutional rights afforded to us all, even the presumed innocent defendant.

The DA used 3 jailhouse snitches that later recanted. He did this repeatedly through the trials and it ultimately cost 3 more people their lives. The snitch had a get out of jail free card with the DA. He went crazy and killed 3 people. He lied about receiving benefits for his testimony. Doug Evans has the blood of those 3 people on his hands. He (snitch) recanted on the podcast.

The DA knew either knew exactly what he was doing (had a weak case and tried to exploit the jurors, and maybe the judge’s, lack of legal knowledge about what is admissible) OR he is a product of the shoddy law school in Oxford.

There is a reason we have an appeals process. If a judge is corrupt, or believes the defendant is guilty, he/she may allow improper evidence, questions, etc that unfairly sways the opinion of the jury. The appeals process gives the convicted an avenue to show that

johnson86 said:
2nd trial: the court again allowed evidence regarding other crimes (this one in Harrison county; one of if not the best county in Mississippi to have a trial untainted by racial issues)

WIKI - This verdict was overturned on appeal by the Mississippi Supreme Court, which held that the court had improperly allowed evidence regarding crimes not on trial to be admitted, and that other errors were made.

Same argument. A DA with a motive and unscrupulous behavior could have pinned the murders on me and got me convicted. And I had never been to Winona until 1999 or 2000.

johnson86 said:
3rd trial: overturned b/c the prosecution struck a lot of potential black jurors and ended up with a 10-2 white-black split on the jury. That may be a good reason to declare a mistrial, but if that's the grounds for mistrial, that has no relevance to the actual verdict. There's no reason to assume the ten whites and the two blacks on the jury are racist against black people.

WIKI - The state Supreme Court stated that there was disparate treatment by the prosecutor in evaluation of black compared with white jurors on issues such as the jurors' connections with the defendants and the jurors' willingness to use the death penalty; he struck blacks from the jury on grounds for which he did not strike whites. In addition, although the court held that in many cases the state presented race-neutral reasons to strike, it used the challenge process as "an exercise in finding race neutral reasons to justify racially motivated strikes."

Have you ever been through jury selection? I believe the defense made a motion before the trial started to declare a mistrial or whatever the proper terminology would be. It was obvious what they were doing but the strikes normally happens without reasoning after the “strikes for reason” are used.

The trial judge should have paused and evaluate the strikes.

johnson86 said:
4th trial: a hung jury, 7-5 to convict
Same untruthful DA, bad evidence, and lying snitch.

johnson86 said:
5th trial: a hung jury 11-1 to convict
Same untruthful DA, bad evidence, and lying snitch.

johnson86 said:
6th trial: another unanimous vote to convict.
Same untruthful DA, bad evidence, and lying snitch.

This doesn’t mean he did it or didn’t do it. If the evidence is faulty, the verdict is trash. That’s the problem. Saying, well we must not know something the jurors heard is the same as believing he did it because he is sitting in the defendant chair.

johnson86 said:
Maybe there are all sorts of things the prosecutor did that he should be punished for, but that doesn't mean the guy isn't guilty.
WOW! It also doesn’t mean he isn’t innocent. Someone sentenced to death should be tried fairly. Really, anyone tried for any crime should not be prosecuted by an attorney who believes the ends justified the means. Do us all a favor any tell the judge exactly what you just said if you ever get jury duty.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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He certainly comes across in the podcast as the poster child for all that could possibly be wrong in the MS judicial system. I have no confidence that we have a less than 10% wrongful incarceration rate, and I suspect that it is substantially higher among those convicted in earlier decades, getting progressively worse as you wind the clock back.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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It’s not your belief in his guilt that’s seems irrational, it’s that you think he’s guilty solely because some SJW said he wasn’t.
 
Nov 16, 2012
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It’s not your belief in his guilt that’s seems irrational, it’s that you think he’s guilty solely because some SJW said he wasn’t.

Don't get me wrong....snowflakes will eventually destroy this country from within but this has nothing to do with my belief. In small town Mississippi, Occam's Razor is never wrong. There's no furniture store fetish perverts roaming the south committing mass murder.
 

Longtime Lurker

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
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For any lawyers on the board, why no change of venue? It seems like Curtis has very poor representation.

Can't believe this wasn't mentioned before now, but I started listening to this today based on this thread. Anyone else catch who his attorney was? Chokwe Lumumba...
 
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