NCAA Selection Show (seeds)
- Thread starter Wrassler17
- Start date
Picc could meet Lee in the quarters tough match up but I actually believe he could knock him off
I like the Lee matchup in the quarters much better than Nato or Suriano.
Would have been nice for Kaia to be opposite Gross as he would have a better shot of making the finals.
Heil staying away front Meridith, Jack and Mckenna is good IMO.
Really tough draw for Preston and disappointed his injury cost him a conference title and seed as when healthy he is a semi final possibility at he weight but this seed really hurt him.
White and Boo didn't get any favors either.
Would have been nice for Kaia to be opposite Gross as he would have a better shot of making the finals.
Heil staying away front Meridith, Jack and Mckenna is good IMO.
Really tough draw for Preston and disappointed his injury cost him a conference title and seed as when healthy he is a semi final possibility at he weight but this seed really hurt him.
White and Boo didn't get any favors either.
Conspiracy Theory II:
At 125, Christian Moody of OU just happens to meet former OU All-American Ryan Milhoff in the first round.
At 125, Christian Moody of OU just happens to meet former OU All-American Ryan Milhoff in the first round.
Again at 125, how does undefeated and 21-0 Suriano get the #4 seed????
NaTo has a loss, as does Lee.
Weird.
NaTo has a loss, as does Lee.
Weird.
Again at 125, Picc meets Sean Russell in the 2nd round. Isn’t he the one who’s gone back and forth with Nick?
How does Davion and Boo wrestle in the first round? I thought there was a rule prohibiting conference mates from meeting up in the 1st round??? Has that changed?
Penalty for forfeiting out last weekend look at Nolf and Kemerers seeds
Here's what our guys have to beat to get to the finals (if all others wrestle to seed);
#4-Pic&Brock: 13, 5, 1
#6-Hiel: 11,3,2
#8-Boo&Rogers: 9,1,4
#9-Weig&White: 8,1,2
#13-Smith: 4,5,1
US-Moore: 4,13,5,1
#4-Pic&Brock: 13, 5, 1
#6-Hiel: 11,3,2
#8-Boo&Rogers: 9,1,4
#9-Weig&White: 8,1,2
#13-Smith: 4,5,1
US-Moore: 4,13,5,1
Yeah, we got screwed...did John go to the seeding meeting? Was there a meeting or did they just draw straws and eat in the hospitality room?
The question about Boo and Jeffries is very obvious. I recall one year I think it was Detroit where they did not allow wrestlers from the same conference to wrestle until Friday morning. Unless there has been a change in the seeding process we should not meet a conference foe until Thursday night.
I like Pic's seed as it keeps him away from the tall wrestlers that have given him fits. Lee is tough, but you get tough on Friday morning. Eight or nine seeds always look terrible unless there are big upsets. I was most upset with Kaid's draw as he should have been a 2 or three seed to keep him away from a guy he wrestles a lot. There is no way of telling who is the best of the 2-4 seeds as they have not wrestled.
I like Pic's seed as it keeps him away from the tall wrestlers that have given him fits. Lee is tough, but you get tough on Friday morning. Eight or nine seeds always look terrible unless there are big upsets. I was most upset with Kaid's draw as he should have been a 2 or three seed to keep him away from a guy he wrestles a lot. There is no way of telling who is the best of the 2-4 seeds as they have not wrestled.
That is about as bad of a draw across the board as I remember us getting.
I think those other teams got the bad draws
I think all our seeds are very reasonable. Of course when you see the actual brackets, you'd prefer some different draws/matchups, but I don't see any obvious discrepancies. For example, I wish Kaid was the 3 seed, but Pletcher has the better resume with the better win (Micic). I wish Boo didn't have to re-wrestle the Big12 semis and finals just to face Zain, but the 8 seed is very fair. Etc,..
I also look it like this, guys like Boo and Derek are on the steep part of the development curve. If they make the quarters, they can shock the world this year by beating Zain and Kyle. Or they face 2 all time greats and know where the bar is for next year when they are potential finalists/champs.
I also look it like this, guys like Boo and Derek are on the steep part of the development curve. If they make the quarters, they can shock the world this year by beating Zain and Kyle. Or they face 2 all time greats and know where the bar is for next year when they are potential finalists/champs.
The separation of wrestlers from the same conference went away when they went to 16 seeds (2014), I believe.
Which of our wrestlers were seeded too low? I don't like the draws but the actual seeds seem rather fair.
it is strange all 5 big 12 entrants at 149 are in the upper quarter of the bracket-funny how that worked out.
We got upset so many times through the year and we got so few upsets ourselves. The seedings are fair and we earned them.
I'm not sure how that's a metric. Either you wrestled better than the guy above you (as an individual) or you didn't. If you are usually a higher ranked wrestler, your chances for upsetting people decrease. Either or, I still contend that's a weird metric to use for seeding. For team rankings? Sure.
I don't think it is documented just that way in the seeding rules ( metrics) but individual seedings are obviously based on who you beat and who beat you. An example, I believe if Kaid would have upset Gross in the Big 12 finals I believe he probably would have been seeded 3rd at NCAA's and certainly would have been seeded higher if he would not have been upset by Bridges of Wyoming or upset by the guy who took him down right at the end of the match and Kaid reached behind for his opponents head and therefore also gave up back points and because of that ending lost a very close match. Now I like Kaid as a wrestler but those 2 guys aren't in Kaid's league as a wrestler but he made big mistakes and got upset. Now Retherford never got an upset because he was rated number 1 all year. However he never got upset and therefore is seeded 1st. However if he had been upset by Sorenson who I believe had 1 loss to Retherford before the Big 12 Tournament( I could be wrong about this) but if Sorenson would have upset him in the Big 10 finals Sorenson might have been the 1st seed at Nationals. Maybe I don't understand the metrics of seeding at Nationals but I think upsetting wrestlers in general will improve seeding and being upset based on ratings will hurt your seeding. Again I could be wrong but.
Out of all the 8/9 seeds we have, who has the best chance (provided they make quarters) to upset top seed Friday morning?
I think Weigel would have the best chance against the number 1 seed especially if he heals up some more before Nationals.
I agree. I believe quality wins, head to head results, and win % are all part of the seeding criteria. So as an example, if Kaid had not lost to Lehigh's Parker on that last second 6 point move, he may have ended up seeded 2 or 3. He would have had only the Gross lose, and the Bridges lose but he later avenged that, so his resume would probably be considered better than Micic's and almost certainly better than Pletcher's.
I'm not sure what the actual seeding criteria/process is - maybe Spladle or SHP could explain it? But I've read and heard things like the above, plus the final coaches' panel rankings, rpi, and conference placement are all plugged into a computer and the seeds are spit out. From there, the committee can debate the seeding if 2 guys are close. Supposedly Tom Ryan and Brian Smith were on the seeding committee this year. That's kind of interesting because some of their guys seemed to get favorable seeds.
Anyway, our guys seem to be seeded very close to their composite/consensus rankings, so I don't have any issues.
It has been my experience over the years that when the seeds and draws come out that most fans from all schools think their wrestlers got bad seeds and/or draws. I believe in most instances the draws and seeds are fair every year. As Harley said, " the wrestlers got the seeds or draws they deserved". I agree with Wrassler17 and I have no issues with how they were seeded.
You've pretty much got it. It isn't quite so easy as plugging it all into a computer and spitting it out (I also haven't ever been in the room to watch it happen so I don't know exactly how they work through it), but the basic process is 25% head-to-head, 20% quality wins, 15% coaches ranking, 10% results against common opponents, 10% RPI, 10% qualifying event placement, and 10% winning percentage. We've actually gotten a lot more information on the specifics of how they compare wrestlers this year as Pat Tocci of the National Wrestling Coaches Association has been very helpful in filling in the gaps. The best I can tell, they start with a list (probably the CR) then compare the resumes of those next to each other head to head using the rubric. Quality wins are tiered with different point values for, say, a top 5 win versus one over #17, and qualifying event placement values winning a conference title heavily. You can find most of the details here (http://www.ncaa.org/championships/division-i-wrestling) in the Pre-Championships manual and the mock selection PowerPoint.
As an aside and I know it won't comfort the conspiracy theorists, but the active coaches on the committee are supposed to leave the room when their wrestlers are being discussed. Also, now that I and other members of the media know how to go through the points and compare wrestlers, any funny business is going to be readily apparent. I know at least one other person is doing so right now and I have plans to work through the numbers after the season. Now I have to get back to writing DI weight class previews.
my one beef and it burns my *** worse than red chile flake is kaid at 4
2 micic
3 kaid
4 pletcher
let the conferences square off in the semis
2 micic
3 kaid
4 pletcher
let the conferences square off in the semis
Thanks for the info. Glad they are making the process more transparent for the wrestling media (and fans in general). Keep em honest!
Also, I attribute my conspiracy theories to the "Micco effect".
Last edited:
Here's Flo's comparison of the actual seeds vs their own rankings...
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6138360-seeds-vs-rankings-where-flo-and-the-ncaa-differ
There are some pretty big differences, the largest being John Erneste and Corey Griego both seeded 7 spots better than their ranking.
For us it looks like this. Preston took a small hit. Flo says it might be because he didn't wrestle much this year.
125: seeded 6, ranked 6
133: 4, 4
141: 6, 6
149: 8, 9
165: 8, 8
174: 13, 14
184: US, UR
197: 9, 6
285: 9, 9
It would be interesting to see a comparison of seeds vs the final coaches' panel rankings, but I don't think those are ever released.
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6138360-seeds-vs-rankings-where-flo-and-the-ncaa-differ
There are some pretty big differences, the largest being John Erneste and Corey Griego both seeded 7 spots better than their ranking.
For us it looks like this. Preston took a small hit. Flo says it might be because he didn't wrestle much this year.
125: seeded 6, ranked 6
133: 4, 4
141: 6, 6
149: 8, 9
165: 8, 8
174: 13, 14
184: US, UR
197: 9, 6
285: 9, 9
It would be interesting to see a comparison of seeds vs the final coaches' panel rankings, but I don't think those are ever released.
This guy seems to know a little something about wrestling.
I like the pick at 141, although I think Dean may have to squeeze over and make room for Picc and Kaid when they take the champions' group picture.
Go Pokes!
http://news.theopenmat.com/blog/201...te-rides-cleveland-ready-exceed-expectations/
I like the pick at 141, although I think Dean may have to squeeze over and make room for Picc and Kaid when they take the champions' group picture.
Go Pokes!
http://news.theopenmat.com/blog/201...te-rides-cleveland-ready-exceed-expectations/