Mike Williams

[PhilaPhans]

Definitely got some minutes as a frosh this year due to our lack of depth. Came in known as a shooter in HS, but struggled, especially early on. Besides his shooting, his D was adequate and he was a lot more steady than our other guards with the ball in his hands.

Do you think the offensive woes was just first year jitters?

What do you think his role will be now that we've got a bunch of new 1s, 2s, and 3s coming in?

 

[JQRU91]

His shooting woes are probably mental. Shooting isn't a skill that usually just goes away short of injury that messes with the mechanics of your shot. That being said, we really need him to get his outside shot on track. It would help the offense a lot.

 

[lilphilw]

I was definitely disappointed with his shooting. He came in known as a shooter and didn't seem to resemble one with confidence. Having said that, I was surprised by his all around game and way to make an impact despite his shooting. I think with an offseason with the program, he'll improve a good amount and will be the starter next year. Even if he never becomes that sharp shooter, he's still one of the better defenders on the team and can do a bit of driving. I'm optimistic that he'll gain confidence and will work on whatever was holding him back from shooting well last year. I'd prefer him over Daniels at the 2 right now

 

[RUJMM78]

This is a important season for Williams because Rutgers needs outside scoring with the loss of Mack.He certainly showed the shooting touch in high school but as a freshmen the skillset on offense was missing.Players like Williams must step up this season if Rutgers has any chance of winning more league games.

 

[RUChoppin]

Hard to expect freshmen to come in and just automatically become great scorers. Hopefully with better understanding of the offense EJ is trying to run, and a year's worth of experience at the college level, he'll start to feel more comfortable and improve going into his second year.

 

[SirScarlet]

His shooting woes are probably mental. Shooting isn't a skill that usually just goes away short of injury that messes with the mechanics of your shot. That being said, we really need him to get his outside shot on track. It would help the offense a lot.

Kids going to be very good for us. Love his defensive intensity and the shot falling is only a matter of time.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I think Mike Williams forced action instead of letting the game come to him. That resulted in rushed shots because he was trying to make things happen. Players tend to force action when a team has limited offensive threats. He'll slow down this year and I'm sure his shooting will improve. A good shooter does not lose his shot...he may confidence.

 

[seels2662]

There are alot of if going around with this team but if Williams turns this around and becomes a great shooter to go along with the rest of the pieces we got this off-season this team can win alot more games than people realize.

 

[Bdodger2]

There are alot of if going around with this team but if Williams turns this around and becomes a great shooter to go along with the rest of the pieces we got this off-season this team can win alot more games than people realize.

Mike was never a "great" shooter prior to college when he was defended by quality players who were significantly taller than him. He was savvy enough to pass the ball or attempt to drive in those circumstances. Of course in high school there were only a few quality players that had a size advantage over him.

This issue is exacerbated in college. He is short for his position. That could be offset by above average athleticism, but Mike is only average at best in that regard. He is simply neither tall nor quick. Accordingly, he has to rush his shot. In high school this was generally not a problem, but with taller, more athletic players that he faces most nights in college, it is far tougher for him to be a quality shooter at this level. He needs more time to get off his shot and that impacts his mechanics. It may be subtle, but at this level a subtle alteration of your mechanics is usually deadly.

With additional experience, there may be some modest improvement. It is highly unlikely that he will ever be a good shooter on a consistent basis in college because his lack of size and quickness cannot be overcome.

Give him credit for improving his defense and overall court awareness. The coaches and Mike have done a good job in that regard.

 

[seels2662]

Mike was never a "great" shooter prior to college when he was defended by quality players who were significantly taller than him. He was savvy enough to pass the ball or attempt to drive in those circumstances. Of course in high school there were only a few quality players that had a size advantage over him.

This issue is exacerbated in college. He is short for his position. That could be offset by above average athleticism, but Mike is only average at best in that regard. He is simply neither tall nor quick. Accordingly, he has to rush his shot. In high school this was generally not a problem, but with taller, more athletic players that he faces most nights in college, it is far tougher for him to be a quality shooter at this level. He needs more time to get off his shot and that impacts his mechanics. It may be subtle, but at this level a subtle alteration of your mechanics is usually deadly.

With additional experience, there may be some modest improvement. It is highly unlikely that he will ever be a good shooter on a consistent basis in college because his lack of size and quickness cannot be overcome.

Give him credit for improving his defense and overall court awareness. The coaches and Mike have done a good job in that regard.

Are you saying this as a fact? I never heard of this before but then again I never watched one of his games in high school. He had the reputation of a very good shooter coming into our team. If what you say is true this completely changes the dynamic.

 

[Bdodger2]

Are you saying this as a fact? I never heard of this before but then again I never watched one of his games in high school. He had the reputation of a very good shooter coming into our team. If what you say is true this completely changes the dynamic.

seels - I am saying this as fact. I have known Mike since he was eight years old and have seen him play in literally hundreds of games. He is what he is based upon significant physical limitations. At one point he was one of the premier players in the country. He then stopped growing and had to adjust his game. He worked at it very hard. He simply will not be a consistent quality outside shooter. There is a reason why he was not highly recruited out of high school.

Lets focus on the good stuff with Mike - great kid, hard worker, gritty, competitive and has developed into a solid defensive player. He is an asset to the program.

 

[seels2662]

Dodger, really the question is can he consistently drain an outside shot if left open. That is the most important thing. I am just guessing here but in high school he may have been the teams best player and as a result he was the guy the the ball in his hands most of the time and opposing teams knew it. Here (once again a bunch of ifs) Sanders is going to be that guy and on top of that opposing teams will have to be mindful of inside help against Freeman. This will mean a ton of open looks for him.

 

[PhilaPhans]

Dodger, really the question is can he consistently drain an outside shot if left open. That is the most important thing. I am just guessing here but in high school he may have been the teams best player and as a result he was the guy the the ball in his hands most of the time and opposing teams knew it. Here (once again a bunch of ifs) Sanders is going to be that guy and on top of that opposing teams will have to be mindful of inside help against Freeman. This will mean a ton of open looks for him.

That's what I want to know, too. It's nice knowing he'll protect the ball and play D. He just needs that all-important third facet of the game where he's a threat if left open.

 

[MadRU]

Seels, Mike played with Carrington (SHU) in HS. Carrington had the ball most of the time, Mike was option #2 there. I too was expecting Mike to be a better shooter last year. And I think he will be in the future. But I was most impressed with the rest of his game. A gritty NYC player, but to me had the best BB IQ on the team.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I thought Mike Williams shooting issues has a LOT to do with lower body strength and balance. When he has the extra 0.2 seconds to gather and get his legs into his shot...his percentage went WAY up as opposed to a lot of his misses where his legs were not very into the form and he was shooting with all upper body

This is something that he can correct with a BIG offseason of lower body S&C...and I think he will fix it

I see that he can be an effective outside shooter...but I don't think his form is ever going to extened his range much beyond the arc...not going to be able to hit with percentage shots 4-5 feet behind the arc...his percentage to be effective will need to be at within a step of the arc.

 

[RU at the shore]

Bdodger - Do you think Williams can be an effective back up point guard if left to focus on that role. Not a glamorous job but still seems to be a glaring weakness on the team.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I thought Mike Williams shooting issues has a LOT to do with lower body strength and balance. When he has the extra 0.2 seconds to gather and get his legs into his shot...his percentage went WAY up as opposed to a lot of his misses where his legs were not very into the form and he was shooting with all upper body

This is something that he can correct with a BIG offseason of lower body S&C...and I think he will fix it

I see that he can be an effective outside shooter...but I don't think his form is ever going to extened his range much beyond the arc...not going to be able to hit with percentage shots 4-5 feet behind the arc...his percentage to be effective will need to be at within a step of the arc.

I was thinking this also. Tired legs = poor shooting

 

[Bdodger2]

I was thinking this also. Tired legs = poor shooting

A few responses. Mike already added a great deal of strength between high school and freshman year of college. Lack of strength did not have any impact upon his shooting.

He is not a point guard and has never played point guard at any level in any meaningful fashion. He simply does not have the tools. He would get destroyed by the quickness of college level point guards.

If left wide open he will hit shots. I have no way to predict whether that is something that will materialize. It is primarily dependent upon the abilities of other players and overall team coaching. Sanders could be the key in this regard. Sanders does have the inherent ability to break down defenses and kick the ball out to the open man. Whether that actually happens is impossible to know at this juncture.

Mike is an asset as a part of the rotation. He is intelligent, and he is tough. If he is a starter then I think it is problematic for us. Despite his work ethic he is simply not physically capable to be a starter at this level.

 

[seels2662]

A few responses. Mike already added a great deal of strength between high school and freshman year of college. Lack of strength did not have any impact upon his shooting.

He is not a point guard and has never played point guard at any level in any meaningful fashion. He simply does not have the tools. He would get destroyed by the quickness of college level point guards.

If left wide open he will hit shots. I have no way to predict whether that is something that will materialize. It is primarily dependent upon the abilities of other players and overall team coaching. Sanders could be the key in this regard. Sanders does have the inherent ability to break down defenses and kick the ball out to the open man. Whether that actually happens is impossible to know at this juncture.

Mike is an asset as a part of the rotation. He is intelligent, and he is tough. If he is a starter then I think it is problematic for us. Despite his work ethic he is simply not physically capable to be a starter at this level.

Interesting. Then I hope Johnson and/or Goode is ready to start. Because unfortunately for Williams we need a dead eye shooter in that position over any of the other intangebales. That is the only way this offense that EJ has constructed is going to work. If Williams is what you say and at least one of the other two can at least hold their own defensively then I don't see many minutes for Williams.

 

[Bdodger2]

Interesting. Then I hope Johnson and/or Goode is ready to start. Because unfortunately for Williams we need a dead eye shooter in that position over any of the other intangebales. That is the only way this offense that EJ has constructed is going to work. If Williams is what you say and at least one of the other two can at least hold their own defensively then I don't see many minutes for Williams.

Seels - I cannot speak to Johnson, but Williams is light years better than Goode.

 

[seels2662]

Seels - I cannot speak to Johnson, but Williams is light years better than Goode.

Better than Goode in what way? Because Goode is supposed to be a GREAT shooter. And many, many people, including EJ, and experts better than you and I, have said that. And like I said before, Williams can be light years ahead of Goode in many other aspects, if Goode is clearly the better shooter, then he plays.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

What Mike can and can't do on the court is debateable and based on what i see I agree with bdodger. What I am certain of is what Mike Williams the person/character can bring to a program hopefully in the building phase. We desperately need guys that "play the game" like Mike.

 

[DHajekRC84]

good stuff Bdodger2. Seems spot on. I am hoping Mike can be the guy to come in a nail a few spot up three's here and there while playing the most solid D. I certainly didn't see the ability to create and score. But I'll take sophmore solid which only gets better.

 

[Bdodger2]

Better than Goode in what way? Because Goode is supposed to be a GREAT shooter. And many, many people, including EJ, and experts better than you and I, have said that. And like I said before, Williams can be light years ahead of Goode in many other aspects, if Goode is clearly the better shooter, then he plays.

Seels - we are just going to have to disagree on Goode. Obviously there is no reason for you to listen to me - I get that. The nonsense you hear about Goode being a great shooter is exactly that - complete nonsense. Standing around in a gym in a low key practice setting is meaningless. He could not get it done in high school. He is not getting it done in the Big Ten. The kid does not belong at this level and will never contribute at RU.

Again - simply my opinion and that of others I respect (yes, including the views of folks who do this for a living).

 

[SirScarlet]

I respect all the opinions in this thread and I am still sticking to my guns. I think he is going to become a very reliable player and shooter for us.

My rationale is that i saw him miss many many many shots where he wasnt rushed or pressured. he simply missed. and given his track record of success (albeit against worse comp), we know that the kid can shoot when left open.

I happen to agree it's due to tired legs (combo of increased level of comp, injury, and energy exerted on D he didnt need to address in HS)...and this is a fixable/addressable item

So, if proven wrong over time, I will be the first to say i was wrong...but per above, I am sticking to my guns.

 

[SirScarlet]

The kid does not belong at this level and will never contribute at RU.

.

Bdodger - I love your insights and respect them.

That said, I think your statements above are rather harsh. I've not even seen this kids tape, so my reaction is not a disagreement of your assessment. But my 2 cents is that you can take a slighlty more tactful approach when stating this about a kid on our team.

I am not preaching to you...just a suggestion meant to be given in a polite and constructive manner.

 

[RUPete]

Well, this is a sobering thread. Dodger knows his stuff and is usually spot on in his assessments.

I know that you just don't go down to Shop Rite and pick up a good or even a solid college shooter, but man, can't we get anyone who can shoot or get a shot off at this level? Geez, we even got Jeff Greer late in the game.

 

[seels2662]

I agree Pete I respect your opinion dodger I hope you don't see my back and forth with you as an attack its just simply message board banter.

That being said, if what you say is true, in that EJ brought in two "shooters" who can't shoot well enough at this level, then it it starts to point to the fact that EJ cannot evaluate talent, and that is a serious serious issue that could ultimately cause his demise.

 

[JQRU91]

What Mike can and can't do on the court is debateable and based on what i see I agree with bdodger. What I am certain of is what Mike Williams the person/character can bring to a program hopefully in the building phase. We desperately need guys that "play the game" like Mike.

From what bdodger is telling us, it sounds like Mike Williams is a glue guy. We definitely need guys like that. But we also need someone to step up to be a shooter.

 

[RU_DIO]

Nothing wrong with what BDodger said. Everyone who follows recruiting would have assumed the kid was a complete long shot to play here.

 

[Bdodger2]

Bdodger - I love your insights and respect them.

That said, I think your statements above are rather harsh. I've not even seen this kids tape, so my reaction is not a disagreement of your assessment. But my 2 cents is that you can take a slighlty more tactful approach when stating this about a kid on our team.

I am not preaching to you...just a suggestion meant to be given in a polite and constructive manner.

Sir Scarlet - fair criticism. I could have been a bit less harsh in how I couched my views.

Seels - never a problem. A healthy exchange of views.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Totally off topic and certainly a minority point of view....recruiting shooters is very overrated. Our inability to have success shooting the basketball has more to do with quality looks vs. player's ability to put the ball in the basket. Myles Mack had 3 1/2 poor years shooting behind the arc yet we all would consider him a good shooter. One year Seagears was close to 40% behind the arc and most would say he isn't a good shooter.

 

[MadRU]

I think we should ease up a little here. Some of the players being discussed have only one year in college or have yet to play. Lets see how they develop some. Really how many freshman are major contributors their first year or so? Other than maybe the top recruits many take time to develop.

And like FIG mentions, lets see what a real point guard can do for a team, since many here have not seen one at Rutgers.

 

[bscharf]

Seels - we are just going to have to disagree on Goode. Obviously there is no reason for you to listen to me - I get that. The nonsense you hear about Goode being a great shooter is exactly that - complete nonsense. Standing around in a gym in a low key practice setting is meaningless. He could not get it done in high school. He is not getting it done in the Big Ten. The kid does not belong at this level and will never contribute at RU.

Again - simply my opinion and that of others I respect (yes, including the views of folks who do this for a living).

I hope Goode reads this site and puts your post on his locker!

I think you're extremely knowledgable and know these recruits better than most. That being said, writing a kid off before he even gets a chance to play a game is silly. I have heard from people closely involved in the program that this kid is the best shooter to come to RU in years. Could be total BS and hype, but I will wait to see him play before I have any reaction and I think you should as well!

 

[PhilaPhans]

I have heard from people closely involved in the program that this kid is the best shooter to come to RU in years. Could be total BS and hype, but I will wait to see him play before I have any reaction and I think you should as well!

The question probably isn't, "Can Goode shoot?"

The questions are "Can Goode shoot with guys that are taller and faster defending him at the collegiate level? Does Goode have the necessary handle to not be a liability at the collegiate level? Can Goode manage to not be a defensive liability at the collegiate level?" Etc.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Billy Gilligan was a good shooter too. Takes a lot more than that to contribute at this level.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Seels - we are just going to have to disagree on Goode. Obviously there is no reason for you to listen to me - I get that. The nonsense you hear about Goode being a great shooter is exactly that - complete nonsense. Standing around in a gym in a low key practice setting is meaningless. He could not get it done in high school. He is not getting it done in the Big Ten. The kid does not belong at this level and will never contribute at RU.

Again - simply my opinion and that of others I respect (yes, including the views of folks who do this for a living).

The college game is filled with lower ranked guys that are contributing that "do not belong at this level". Definitive statements like that don't mean anything. Let the guy play some games and take some shots before you start calling him a bust that does not belong in the B1G.

Every year......low ranked guys from non-P5 teams transfer to P5 programs and contribute. These are the same type of guys that could not make it in college.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Totally off topic and certainly a minority point of view....recruiting shooters is very overrated. Our inability to have success shooting the basketball has more to do with quality looks vs. player's ability to put the ball in the basket. Myles Mack had 3 1/2 poor years shooting behind the arc yet we all would consider him a good shooter. One year Seagears was close to 40% behind the arc and most would say he isn't a good shooter.

There is also a misconception that guys need to be able to get their shots off. The college game is more about spreading the floor, dribble penetration, ball screens, moving guys around the court for open looks.

Guys in the college game do not beat their man off the dribble to take a 3 point shot. If they do, it's a bad forced shot.

 

[higgins3]

If sanders brings a low stance and defends, and mike also defends like last year, we will keep teams from scoring 70+ points some nights.

I think Williams will be an offensive threat this year. Bdodger, i hear you and I see you've watched him, but I still think MW will be a 10ppg kid if not more this year.

 

[higgins3]

Also disagree on Goode, Bdodger. In hs he was a great shooter. In prep, not so much. Still, type of kid that can succeed in the big ten. IN other leagues, probably not. In the big ten where IQ amounts for something, I think Goode will contribute.