Kentucky against the Field

[MdWIldcat55]

Some things I found interesting looking at the NCAA Tournament Field.

* Of Kentucky's 13 losses, all except the "stolen" Auburn game were against Tournament Teams (Auburn was apparently first team out.)
* The Cats lost to these seeds: 1,1,1,3,3,4,5,6,6,8,10,10. The Cats won seven games against tourney tesms, seeded, 4,5,5,6,6,10,11.
* Kentucky played 19 games against NCAA tournament teams. Overall the Cats were 7-12 against teams in the tournament, with nine losses and five wins to teams seeded 6 or better.

Not a notable season by Kentucky standards.

But If you are looking for positives, at least for the first game: It was a very tough schedule, and the Cats had no really terrible losses. The only team to beat Kentucky that was not superior to Santa Clara (at least based on computer metrics and seeding) was Auburn @ Auburn, and we all know how that game went. Kentucky beat five teams that are seeded higher than Santa Clara.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Good post. I expect you will be attacked unmercifully for it. It was a frustrating season with plenty of struggles but the schedule was legit.

 

[Coach Ken Reeves]

Nice post OP. Great insight. Even though UK’s season has been unacceptable, at least this paints it in a little different light for me.

 

[UKGrad24]

Oh hell I didn’t realize that. Honestly that’s a pretty good year. I guess it depends on how you look at it. Basically, shts hard. And we tried. Appreciate that.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Kentucky is very mid this year. Pope will get his third year because we have an AD who is on his way out, and even if Mitch was staying, he would keep Pope on for one more year.

That being said, Pope needs to get to at least the elite eight next year and start showing that he can recruit at a high level. If either of those two things doesn't happen, he will be shown the door.

 

[preacherfan]

Some things I found interesting looking at the NCAA Tournament Field.

* Of Kentucky's 13 losses, all except the "stolen" Auburn game were against Tournament Teams (Auburn was apparently first team out.)
* The Cats lost to these seeds: 1,1,1,3,3,4,5,6,6,8,10,10. The Cats won seven games against tourney tesms, seeded, 4,5,5,6,6,10,11.
* Kentucky played 19 games against NCAA tournament teams. Overall the Cats were 7-12 against teams in the tournament, with nine losses and five wins to teams seeded 6 or better.

Not a notable season by Kentucky standards.

But If you are looking for positives, at least for the first game: It was a very tough schedule, and the Cats had no really terrible losses. The only team to beat Kentucky that was not superior to Santa Clara (at least based on computer metrics and seeding) was Auburn @ Auburn, and we all know how that game went. Kentucky beat five teams that are seeded higher than Santa Clara.

Thanks a million for the informative post. Very good work!

 

[wildcatdon]

Some things I found interesting looking at the NCAA Tournament Field.

* Of Kentucky's 13 losses, all except the "stolen" Auburn game were against Tournament Teams (Auburn was apparently first team out.)
* The Cats lost to these seeds: 1,1,1,3,3,4,5,6,6,8,10,10. The Cats won seven games against tourney tesms, seeded, 4,5,5,6,6,10,11.
* Kentucky played 19 games against NCAA tournament teams. Overall the Cats were 7-12 against teams in the tournament, with nine losses and five wins to teams seeded 6 or better.

Not a notable season by Kentucky standards.

But If you are looking for positives, at least for the first game: It was a very tough schedule, and the Cats had no really terrible losses. The only team to beat Kentucky that was not superior to Santa Clara (at least based on computer metrics and seeding) was Auburn @ Auburn, and we all know how that game went. Kentucky beat five teams that are seeded higher than Santa Clara.

One thing I disagree with you on is where you said we had no terrible losses. Beg to differ. Gonzaga by 35. Vandy by 25 and Mich st by 17 and there might have been one more. UK should never be losing by those margins to anyone. Otherwise good info.

 

[preacherfan]

Kentucky is very mid this year. Pope will get his third year because we have an AD who is on his way out, and even if Mitch was staying, he would keep Pope on for one more year.

That being said, Pope needs to get to at least the elite eight next year and start showing that he can recruit at a high level. If either of those two things doesn't happen, he will be shown the door.

In all fairness, I don't think any AD would fire Pope after this season. Contracts are given for a reason and buyouts are there for a reason. So, I totally disagree with your first paragraph above.

Matt Doherty got a 3rd year after going 8-20! BCG went 22-14 but went to the NIT and had personal conduct that warranted being fired. Kenny Payne was 12-52. Phil Cunningham was 4-28 and fired after one season (LOL).

Adrian Autry was fired after 3 years after going 49-48. Damon Stoudamire was fired after 3 years after going 42-55. Kim English was fired from Providence after 3 years. He never made the tournament and went 42-49. Jerome Tang (our friend) was fired after going 10-15 in his final year.

 

[CB3UK]

Interesting stats. They embue zero confidence in me.

 

[UKGrad24]

In all fairness, I don't think any AD would fire Pope after this season. Contracts are given for a reason and buyouts are there for a reason. So, I totally disagree with your first paragraph above.

Matt Doherty got a 3rd year after going 8-20! BCG went 22-14 but went to the NIT and had personal conduct that warranted being fired. Kenny Payne was 12-52. Phil Cunningham was 4-28 and fired after one season (LOL).

Adrian Autry was fired after 3 years after going 49-48. Damon Stoudamire was fired after 3 years after going 42-55. Kim English was fired from Providence after 3 years. He never made the tournament and went 42-49. Jerome Tang (our friend) was fired after going 10-15 in his final year.

I think this keeps being missed and it’s understandable because we’re in a new era. Those coaches didn’t have the NIL and that is a massive difference. Those coaches weren’t given millions and millions of dollars to buy immediately rosters under their image. They had to wait because revamping rosters was difficult. It was understandable. This is not acceptable because they are given the chance to win nearly immediately.

Given that, 2 years NIL is absolutely equivalent to 4 years of traditional coaching timeframes and standards. You will begin to see coaches removed after 2/3 years because the boosters are not going to keep shoveling millions unless the coach shows competence with the money. Mark has not done that. He will be given year 3, but all in all, given his coaching and recruiting, he should be fired after the season.

The ineptitude in recruiting is enough, and also we’re in serious droughts so I wouldn’t wait but with this administration they will.

 

[vhcat1970]

Draft Kings initially has our odds to win it at 200-1.

 

[preacherfan]

I think this keeps being missed and it’s understandable because we’re in a new era. Those coaches didn’t have the NIL and that is a massive difference. Those coaches weren’t given millions and millions of dollars to buy immediately rosters under their image. They had to wait because revamping rosters was difficult. It was understandable. This is not acceptable because they are given the chance to win nearly immediately.

Given that, 2 years NIL is absolutely equivalent to 4 years of traditional coaching timeframes and standards. You will begin to see coaches removed after 2/3 years because the boosters are not going to keep shoveling millions unless the coach shows competence with the money. Mark has not done that. He will be given year 3, but all in all, given his coaching and recruiting, he should be fired after the season.

The ineptitude in recruiting is enough, and also we’re in serious droughts so I wouldn’t wait but with this administration they will.

I do agree that NIL is changing things but we still have very little data and only speculation. I firmly believe that this new system has done exactly what the NCAA has opposed for decades. Boosters have more say that ever in the future of a program. Having said that, I am very much aware of how much the boosters were involved in the Hall and Sutton years. Then it was underground and now it is out in the open.

Watch the transfer portal this year and see who we get or don't get. If the boosters are all in or mostly in, it will be a good year or at least show major improvement. If they aren't, it will slide downward. As you said, Pope will be here next year. We agree on that. Like it or not, I personally believe if we do see improvement (not sure how much) Pope will get another year. After year 4 without being a top 10 team and winning games in the Big Dance, all bets are off.

Feel free to remind me of this post after next season. I've been wrong before. In fact, I will even save this post and share it next year regardless of what happens.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

We have become IU fans celebrating with our mid season title popcorn buckets

 

[UKGrad24]

I do agree that NIL is changing things but we still have very little data and only speculation. I firmly believe that this new system has done exactly what the NCAA has opposed for decades. Boosters have more say that ever in the future of a program. Having said that, I am very much aware of how much the boosters were involved in the Hall and Sutton years. Then it was underground and now it is out in the open.

Watch the transfer portal this year and see who we get or don't get. If the boosters are all in or mostly in, it will be a good year or at least show major improvement. If they aren't, it will slide downward. As you said, Pope will be here next year. We agree on that. Like it or not, I personally believe if we do see improvement (not sure how much) Pope will get another year. After year 4 without being a top 10 team and winning games in the Big Dance, all bets are off.

Feel free to remind me of this post after next season. I've been wrong before. In fact, I will even save this post and share it next year regardless of what happens.

I don’t see any way Pope “should” get a 4th year if he’s not consistently a top contender next season as in top 10ish, elite 8 / final four, running all year at a top team in the SEC. If not the implications are not good for the program, and by that time we’re talking potentially 10’s of millions of dollars in roster construction failed. This isn’t a situation like old days where a coach builds up, this is essentially a traditional year 4, in year 1 or 2. As in, what used to take a coach 4 years now takes coaches 1 or 2. At a program like Kentucky that’s definitely true.

Boosters aren’t monolithic so I have no idea what the majority think but there is not way they’re content spending this kind of money for near half a decade without results. Most are wealthy for a reason, they don’t waste money. Sticking with a coach who can’t win with the resources is a waste of money. We’re a blue blood, imagine Alabama hiring a guy with his record then giving him near half a decade of these results. Would never happen. Were elite or were not.

Like I said given the state of the program, his record, and current trajectory in recruiting, I’d let him go at seasons end. But as we’ve said that won’t happen, so next year it’s excellence or bust. Edit to add, if pope had a top 3 class coming in this would change things. It’s when you add that he’s a horrible recruiter, the give him 3 doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[UKGrad24]

We have become IU fans celebrating with our mid season title popcorn buckets

And this is why unless it’s a Roy Williams situation, no more player coaches. People just can’t shake the ability to be objective and love the sweet talk, which potentially lowers the bar to cover and keep as we’re seeing right now.

 

[preacherfan]

We have become IU fans celebrating with our mid season title popcorn buckets

Not one fan in this thread is celebrating. If you see something that I don't point it out.

 

[BigBlue1992]

In all fairness, I don't think any AD would fire Pope after this season. Contracts are given for a reason and buyouts are there for a reason. So, I totally disagree with your first paragraph above.

Matt Doherty got a 3rd year after going 8-20! BCG went 22-14 but went to the NIT and had personal conduct that warranted being fired. Kenny Payne was 12-52. Phil Cunningham was 4-28 and fired after one season (LOL).

Adrian Autry was fired after 3 years after going 49-48. Damon Stoudamire was fired after 3 years after going 42-55. Kim English was fired from Providence after 3 years. He never made the tournament and went 42-49. Jerome Tang (our friend) was fired after going 10-15 in his final year.

But there’s one gigantic difference between Pope and those other guys; Pope was given $22 million to build a team with. There was no transfer portal or NIL back then.

The fact is, the man is in way over his head. There are zero reasons to bring him back for a third year, although he’ll get that unless he resigns.

 

[Wayne Dougan]

the Cats had no really terrible losses.

I was at the Gonzaga game and can assure you it was a terrible loss.

 

[20MRoster]

Nice job, MDWildcat -- I'm going to take this a bit further. What simple W/L data doesn't show is how well or poorly we played with each seed line. wildcatdon alluded to this. My thought was that I take each seed line and aggregate the point margin in all the games. So here goes:
#1: -24; -8 / game (all to the same team, did not lead for 1 sec)
#2: N/A -- guess we will find out Sunday, assuming we take care of business.
#3: -52; -26/ game (de-pantsed vs MSU and Gonzaga)
#4: -7; -3.5/ game (fluke ARK win drowned by the annual Oats beatdown. I call ARK a fluke because look what happened last year at Rupp with a worse ARK team and a better UK team, but I digress).
#5: +1; +0.33/game (3 blowouts -- 2 favoring us that basically even out -- that is Pope ball in a nutshell)
#6: -6 / -1.5/game (1 UL blowout, rest of the games were close)
#7: NA
#8: -8; -8/game (home loss to UGA -- yikes)
#9: NA
#10: -10; -3.33/game

This paints an even worse picture IMO -- that's not even mid, that's just bad. We are a net negative against every seed line, except for a 5, which was basically even and had extreme variance per contest.

This should not be acceptable at UK.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

Not one fan in this thread is celebrating. If you see something that I don't point it out.

Just because you didn’t see it, Preacher, doesn’t mean somebody didn’t post it man

 

[Seth_C]

One thing I disagree with you on is where you said we had no terrible losses. Beg to differ. Gonzaga by 35. Vandy by 25 and Mich st by 17 and there might have been one more. UK should never be losing by those margins to anyone. Otherwise good info.

Semantics. By NCAA seeding standards those aren’t bad losses. Obviously the way in which we lost those games is ridiculously bad, but the loss itself isn’t “bad.” Put another way, although we lost those games badly, they aren’t bad losses.

Again, it’s all just semantics.

 

[UKGrad24]

I was at the Gonzaga game and can assure you it was a terrible loss.

Yea some of this stuff is mind boggling. No bad losses? This is Kentucky losing to Missouri and Auburn are bad losses. Having 13 losses is bad. Getting our teeth kicked in numerous times in massive blowouts is bad. Digging constant major deficits and having to come back and win routinely is bad. Beating the worst team in the league twice, once without 2 of their players, and once on a hail Mary pass, is bad.

I get what he’s saying but like you said even the blowout losses are really bad losses here. I’d add the rest too. He got manhandled by Alabama and Florida. Absolutely dismantled. No it’s been a very bad season. We can dress it up finding statistics to say hey that’s not bad, but it’s not true. At Kentucky this is bad.

 

[CUJO_1970]

One thing I disagree with you on is where you said we had no terrible losses. Beg to differ. Gonzaga by 35. Vandy by 25 and Mich st by 17 and there might have been one more. UK should never be losing by those margins to anyone. Otherwise good info.

Yeah “no terrible losses” I was like WTH??

Got dog-walked by Louisville and humiliated by Michigan State. 35 point beat-down by Gonzaga, 25 points by Vanderbilt, Three-peated by Florida.

This team lost to freaking Auburn.

Edit: Georgia in Rupp Arena was a bad, and typical, Mark Pope style loss.

 

[Goingfor9]

In all fairness, I don't think any AD would fire Pope after this season. Contracts are given for a reason and buyouts are there for a reason. So, I totally disagree with your first paragraph above.

Matt Doherty got a 3rd year after going 8-20! BCG went 22-14 but went to the NIT and had personal conduct that warranted being fired. Kenny Payne was 12-52. Phil Cunningham was 4-28 and fired after one season (LOL).

Adrian Autry was fired after 3 years after going 49-48. Damon Stoudamire was fired after 3 years after going 42-55. Kim English was fired from Providence after 3 years. He never made the tournament and went 42-49. Jerome Tang (our friend) was fired after going 10-15 in his final year.

No AD at UK in their right mind would have ever hired mark pope. That’s the factor everyone just glosses over. UNCheat learned a lesson they can’t get back with Doherty. UNC could afford it though because they had Roy waiting in the wings even if he didn’t know it.

 

[UKGrad24]

Just because you didn’t see it, Preacher, doesn’t mean somebody didn’t post it man

Oh they have. I’ve been seeing some really crazy stuff “Kentucky hasn’t won it a long time” implying this is okay to do, “we got to 20 wins” implying it’s success, “constant celebrating after beating bottom feeders. It’s been happening with 5-10 people routinely. I mean after beating St. John’s, you’d have thought this board just won a championship. Yea id say that’s Indiana lite.

There are for sure guys who would say there’s nothing wrong with back to back sweet 16 shirts if we get there. 100%.

 

[Seth_C]

I don’t see any way Pope “should” get a 4th year if he’s not consistently a top contender next season as in top 10ish, elite 8 / final four, running all year at a top team in the SEC. If not the implications are not good for the program, and by that time we’re talking potentially 10’s of millions of dollars in roster construction failed. This isn’t a situation like old days where a coach builds up, this is essentially a traditional year 4, in year 1 or 2. As in, what used to take a coach 4 years now takes coaches 1 or 2. At a program like Kentucky that’s definitely true.

Boosters aren’t monolithic so I have no idea what the majority think but there is not way they’re content spending this kind of money for near half a decade without results. Most are wealthy for a reason, they don’t waste money. Sticking with a coach who can’t win with the resources is a waste of money. We’re a blue blood, imagine Alabama hiring a guy with his record then giving him near half a decade of these results. Would never happen. Were elite or were not.

Like I said given the state of the program, his record, and current trajectory in recruiting, I’d let him go at seasons end. But as we’ve said that won’t happen, so next year it’s excellence or

My demands (assuming Pope doesn’t somehow pull a miracle Final Four this season)

Must spend the entire year in the top 25, and the vast majority (ie, beyond the early season when we may not start high) should be around the top 10/12 — must be in the national conversation of being a potential title contender.

Must win the SEC regular season OR the SEC tournament and must finish within the top 4 of both.

Must reach the Elite 8.

 

[Dward13]

Kentucky is very mid this year. Pope will get his third year because we have an AD who is on his way out, and even if Mitch was staying, he would keep Pope on for one more year.

That being said, Pope needs to get to at least the elite eight next year and start showing that he can recruit at a high level. If either of those two things doesn't happen, he will be shown the door.

The tournament is such a crap shoot. I want to see a dominant team from start to finish more than anything and then I wanna see him do it consistently.

I was never truly content with Cal if i’m being honest because he only really had 3 or 4 teams that fit that criteria out of 15 years. 2010, 2012, 2015 and maybe 2017. 2017 beat up on the bad teams but they were also 5-5 against ranked opponents that year and had 2 losses in Rupp. But MoV was way up there snd they only lost 6 games and were definitely a title threat.

I just think UK brass that are making money hand over fist to win should be pushing for Dukes level of success or better considering the unmatched fan support they have in basketball.

 

[Wayne Dougan]

I think this keeps being missed and it’s understandable because we’re in a new era. Those coaches didn’t have the NIL and that is a massive difference. Those coaches weren’t given millions and millions of dollars to buy immediately rosters under their image. They had to wait because revamping rosters was difficult. It was understandable. This is not acceptable because they are given the chance to win nearly immediately.

Given that, 2 years NIL is absolutely equivalent to 4 years of traditional coaching timeframes and standards. You will begin to see coaches removed after 2/3 years because the boosters are not going to keep shoveling millions unless the coach shows competence with the money. Mark has not done that. He will be given year 3, but all in all, given his coaching and recruiting, he should be fired after the season.

The ineptitude in recruiting is enough, and also we’re in serious droughts so I wouldn’t wait but with this administration they will.

I think Pope would be ranked between15th and 30th best coach in America if we're being honest. But I disagree with your assessment that 2 years NIL is equivalent to 4 years of traditional coaching timeframes and standards. First of all, he had a late start in his first year and put together a Sweet 16 team with an oft-inured PG. Secondly, we would have been significantly better this year without the injuries too. So to say 2 = 4 doesn't apply here.

This upcoming offseason is the true make or break time for Pope. Take the money we are giving him and land three studs while keeping some of our core guys and then finish top 10 and we may have something. Anything worse than that - SEE YA.

 

[UKGrad24]

No AD at UK in their right mind would have ever hired mark pope. That’s the factor everyone just glosses over. UNCheat learned a lesson they can’t get back with Doherty. UNC could afford it though because they had Roy waiting in the wings even if he didn’t know it.

I’ve used the comparison to football. Could you see Alabama hiring a guy with Popes record? 12 years, no bowls, .500 against good teams, 63% winning % relative to football, never recruited top players in 12 years? I mean no other basketball blue blood would, including Kentucky, had he not played here. Mark wouldn’t have even been looked at at all. It’s one of the most bizarre hirings in the history of college sports.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

Oh they have. I’ve been seeing some really crazy stuff “Kentucky hasn’t won it a long time” implying this is okay to do, “we got to 20 wins” implying it’s success, “constant celebrating after beating bottom feeders. It’s been happening with 5-10 people routinely. I mean after beating St. John’s, you’d have thought this board just won a championship. Yea id say that’s Indiana lite.

There are for sure guys who would say there’s nothing wrong with back to back sweet 16 shirts if we get there. 100%.

The reason I lash out and am get so angry is that last part; that Pope will pull a Tubby and do exactly enough to skate by while not actually succeeding.

 

[CUJO_1970]

that Pope will pull a Tubby and do exactly enough to skate by while not actually succeeding.

This is the real danger of that Third Year - so many people are failing to grasp it.

Let’s wait and see if that gangrene improves on it’s own

 

[UKGrad24]

I think Pope would be ranked between15th and 30th best coach in America if we're being honest. But I disagree with your assessment that 2 years NIL is equivalent to 4 years of traditional coaching timeframes and standards. First of all, he had a late start in his first year and put together a Sweet 16 team with an oft-inured PG. Secondly, we would have been significantly better this year without the injuries too. So to say 2 = 4 doesn't apply here.

This upcoming offseason is the true make or break time for Pope. Take the money we are giving him and land three studs while keeping some of our core guys and then finish top 10 and we may have something. Anything worse than that - SEE YA.

I’ve already said this but I have time.

I don’t think we would have been much better at all. The injury excuse didn’t cut it. We actually improved when they went out, JQ isn’t really something to add, he was recruited without the ability to play. It’s likely JQ was recruited for recruiting momentum mainly, and really it doesn’t appear he had better offers I think that’s for a reason. Mark rolled the dice and got burned, it’s not an injury excuse.

Lowe? Shot clunker when we’ve already got ball dominant guys. I agree with the F68 analyst, kentucky improved when the roster shortened. Roles were clearly defined, it allowed Chandler and Oweh to make huge leaps, and it stopped Mark from being crazy with his lineups.

Not to mention, when those guys were playing we were still losing a ton of games and some in blowout fashion. Losing Lowe was a gift for this team. When Lowe was on the court he had the worst offensive efficiency out there. This team didn’t need a guy like Lowe. Matter of fact the F68 analyst said he was a bad recruit to sign for Kentucky all together. I agree 100%. Lowe stifles Oweh and chandlers progression by taking a ton of possessions away from them. It’s why the improved when he went away.

Kam was improving but almost defensively unplayable and was flat out bad out there most of the time. When those guys were playing, Mark was talking about having suicidal ideations during press conferences lol.

I don’t see how anyone could suggest 2 years of modern team building isn’t equivalent to 4 years traditional? Of course it does, you’re given 10’s of millions of dollars. The idea Pope didn’t get plenty of resources and ability year 1 is not true. He signed players that Duke wanted, he had the ability to sign top some 25 portal players. there were plenty of good players on the board and he signed some. He did better with that roster than he’s ever done in 12 years of coaching lol. I’d say he dint notice it was insufficient, he’s never done that well in his life. But I will grant that year 3, given the short ended window of year 1 (which I don’t really buy hurt him much), but it happened. A couple of more years that’s fine. I wouldn’t do it but it’s fine. But if people are advocating for a 4th year when the same result shows, it’s just fanboy stuff at that point. There’s no excuse here.

 

[SenseMaker_Cats]

But there’s one gigantic difference between Pope and those other guys; Pope was given $22 million to build a team with. There was no transfer portal or NIL back then

Payne, Stoudamire, Autry and English all had it.

Trying to compare the eras is difficult. Doherty didn’t have NIL but neither did his competitors. Players were less likely to transfer too. The core of Ole Roy’s 2005 championship (May/Felton/Williams/McCants) were there when he got there.

 

[UKGrad24]

This is the real danger of that Third Year - so many people are failing to grasp it.

Let’s wait and see if that gangrene improves on it’s own

Well we’re already seeing people do it. Beating LSU and Missouri guys were ready to accept as success. It was happening. “Sweet 16 last year”. As incl success. Some are even going as far as to say “he’s done better than Calipari did in 4 years”, just crazy stuff. Some are absolutely building this up to lower the bar for Mark. And that’s exactly why Barnhart took the opportunity to capitalize off Calipari last 4 years and put sweet 16 extensions in there. He’s trying to use it to lower the bar here and make it easier for Mark. So the stuff is happening. Barnhart has been trying to lower Kentucky basketball standards since he got here. Gillispie hire, wanted to retain Tubby, tried to stop Calipari hire, now mark pope and sweet 16 extensions. If that’s not intentionally trying to lower a bar I don’t know what is.

 

[OliverSimmonsTwinBrother]

I would take the field, meaning a literal field lol.

 

[preacherfan]

No AD at UK in their right mind would have ever hired mark pope. That’s the factor everyone just glosses over. UNCheat learned a lesson they can’t get back with Doherty. UNC could afford it though because they had Roy waiting in the wings even if he didn’t know it.

I will never argue whether or not Pope should have been hired. That is a completely different issue. I am only arguing that it is unheard of to fire a coach after 2 seasons who made the tournament unless there was cause. I was digging and looking for examples and couldn't find any.

Firing him would trigger another buyout and be starting over from scratch. It is easy for RR posters to scream, "Fire the coach!" But, they aren't the ones who have spent millions in NIL and salary, etc. Maybe you guys can convince Mark Cuban to be a UK booster and get it done.

 

[WeWant9_rivals]

Kind of sums up how I’ve felt about this team all year. They haven’t shown the ability to compete against the top tier teams (Florida, Mich St, Zaga) but have shown they can compete and beat teams in the next tier (Ark, Tenn, Vandy, St. John’s). My prediction was win the 1st rd and lose to a solid team in the 2nd round. That didn’t change after seeing the bracket.

 

[UKGrad24]

I think Pope would be ranked between15th and 30th best coach in America if we're being honest. But I disagree with your assessment that 2 years NIL is equivalent to 4 years of traditional coaching timeframes and standards. First of all, he had a late start in his first year and put together a Sweet 16 team with an oft-inured PG. Secondly, we would have been significantly better this year without the injuries too. So to say 2 = 4 doesn't apply here.

This upcoming offseason is the true make or break time for Pope. Take the money we are giving him and land three studs while keeping some of our core guys and then finish top 10 and we may have something. Anything worse than that - SEE YA.

Also, Pope is nowhere near a top 15-20 coach. I don’t even know if he’s 30th. His record isn’t even really mid. I’d have to go look, but no way he’s anywhere near 15. There’s no way.

Also to add, if he had a top 3 class coming in, I’d say yes a 3rd year is warranted. It’s because of his really bad recruiting mixed with his coaching record or 13 years that I wouldn’t wait if I were Kentucky. Maybe another program not here. Maybe that explains the position in another light.

 

[preacherfan]

Oh they have. I’ve been seeing some really crazy stuff “Kentucky hasn’t won it a long time” implying this is okay to do, “we got to 20 wins” implying it’s success, “constant celebrating after beating bottom feeders. It’s been happening with 5-10 people routinely. I mean after beating St. John’s, you’d have thought this board just won a championship. Yea id say that’s Indiana lite.

There are for sure guys who would say there’s nothing wrong with back to back sweet 16 shirts if we get there. 100%.

Oh brother! You guys are upset because we aren't all chicken littles crying over the wins and losses with you.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

In all fairness, I don't think any AD would fire Pope after this season. Contracts are given for a reason and buyouts are there for a reason. So, I totally disagree with your first paragraph above.

Matt Doherty got a 3rd year after going 8-20! BCG went 22-14 but went to the NIT and had personal conduct that warranted being fired. Kenny Payne was 12-52. Phil Cunningham was 4-28 and fired after one season (LOL).

Adrian Autry was fired after 3 years after going 49-48. Damon Stoudamire was fired after 3 years after going 42-55. Kim English was fired from Providence after 3 years. He never made the tournament and went 42-49. Jerome Tang (our friend) was fired after going 10-15 in his final year.

Pope should not be fired for the win/loss record.

He should be fired for misfeasance/malfeasance