K E N T U C K Y

[brassnux66]

As I have read through many of these posts, I find them both interesting and distressing. It would seem that having any feeling but "hey thanks for gracing us for a year" is somehow tantamount to committing treason. Many people have been excoriated, some in the most juvenile of ways, for daring to express that type of sentiment.

The fact is that no one is right or wrong on this topic. Feeling "jilted" is a legitimate feeling. Feeling proud of our team and on a personal level, happy for each of these kids, is also a legitimate feeling. What's more, they are not mutually exclusive feelings.
Do these kids, or any of our players owe me personally anything? No, or course not. Do athletes attending the University of KENTUCKY on an athletic scholarship have a responsibility to represent our state, the university and by proxy, each of us, with pride and honor? They absolutely do. For the most part this group of kids has done that. For many of them though Kentucky was just a stopping off point and the most expedient way to get to what they really want, money and fame. KENTUCKY really didn't mean anything to them. I don't blame them for that. Certainly if I had the opportunity to be 19 rich and famous I certainly would take it!

What many of us are lamenting is the systematic breaking down of the college basketball culture that we all grew up loving. That attack is, in my opinion, being spearheaded by the NBA. In most other sports, MLB, being the best case, there is a working agreement and mutual respect for the function of amateur athletics. One organization is not flying the bird to the other.

The byproduct of that is that we get kids who don't truly care about KENTUCKY on the front of their jersey. In fact in these times when you put all the "players" in this equation: Players, Coaches, TV/Media, Fans... the only one of those four that cares about the name on the front of the jersey, is us, the fans. We also happen to be the ones that are spending the money that drives this industry. Do you think there is a big TV contract for McGill University basketball in Montreal? Of course there isn't. Why? Because there are no fans of McGill University basketball to spend money and demand coverage.

So, yes, in a way college basketball players, Kentucky basketball players though the years owe us all something. WE have created this industry. WE continue to spend the money that fuels the vehicle for these kids to achieve their dreams. So, Yes, I would like to see an environment where college basketball can thrive, kids have some modicum of loyalty to the name on the front of their jersey and the NBA becomes a partner to help college basketball thrive again. I don't have any answer for it, but I don't think it is unreasonable or disloyal for any of us to feel that way. It is also not unreasonable or wrong headed to be proud of our teams accomplishments, be happy for these kids and be looking forward to next season. My hope is that the powers that be in college and the NBA work to make college basketball healthy and viable for years to come. I personally don't feel that we are currently on that path. And yes, it wouldn't hurt my feeling to have a kid or two each year whose dream it was to play for KENTUCKY get a chance to shine. I fear for the future of the sport we love, but I hope for the best.

Go Big Blue!

 

[minjo]

I see where you are coming from, but it really is not the kids fault to be this way. When you look how this country functions, you see that the system is based on money anymore. Nothing counts as important, not even family ties, friendship in some cases, honesty, faithfulness, government and elected officials and ...... Everyone for himself. Is the modern USA motto.

 

[funKYcat75]

I remember when I got my first thesaurus, too.

 

[brassnux66]

I'm sorry, funkycat, here I'll help:

Juvenile - immature or child like.

 

[gamecockcat]

I think some of these early departures could be delayed a year or two if someone would just sit down and explain to these kids that a 3 or 4 year period of earning $1.5 million/year does NOT set you up for the rest of your life nor will you ever be labeled 'rich' and 'famous' if you don't get that second 'star' contract. The players who last a minimum of 9 years or so should be financially set for life. That's a very, very small percentage of players entering the NBA, much less playing college ball. Why not take advantage of the contacts you can make at a big-time university like UK over a 3 or 4 year period? Tim Duncan didn't lose any money by staying 4 years. What you can't predict (either way) is whether another year in college will better prepare the player for a long NBA career. Maybe yes and maybe no. The NBA makes a decision pretty quickly on a player and it's almost impossible to change the league's mind once made up. IMO, James Young has one more year to become established in the NBA or he's done. If so, what did going early accomplish? He would've gotten his money anyway after another year or two in college. Perhaps, he would've developed a better skillset in the meantime. Perhaps not. All speculation.

 

[Twindaddy2003+1]

Nice to see a topic like this. This is how I feel but saying so and I am not a "true" Kentucky fan by some peoples opinions. I say that I hope that people do not become ok with Final Four after Final Four yet no titles and pretty much called a troll. I wish all the kids well in the nba but I care more about college basketball then nba and what is happening to college basketball and the star power of it is dwindling. If this keeps up what will college basketball look like in 10 years......

 

[GridCats]

Not the game we watched in the seventies and before. Kids are here for the quick payoff and that's it, Until the NBA stops offering these kids the money, it won't change either. Should be three years in college or just go pro from HS. Or something that works for the fan's and the student.

Yeah, and it's clear several on here are just waiting to jump on anyone that thinks different than they do. We all have an opinion, it would be nice if we all agree to disagree without the all the rude reply's too.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Creating a three-year rule would make kids love the front of the jersey again in the same way making divorce punishable by death would fix everyone's marriage.

I don't mean to shock or upset any of you, but unless a kid grows up in a household like many of us did where this is preached since birth, all of our players have only cared about the Kentucky, or whatever other name, across the jersey in that it was the best place they could go to play basketball. Many of them learned to love it once they were on campus, but our guys this year did that too.

So again, what are you all so upset about? Nothing is different than it used to be. The kids just have more options now. Luke Kennard "grew up a Kentucky fan," and chose Duke. Do you know why? Cause he thought it was the best fit for him.

Only three of the seven guys who left yesterday were freshmen, and they won as many games for Big Blue as any team ever had in a season before. You think a love for the Cats would have inspired them to play harder and beat Wisconsin? Really? No, it just makes you guys feel better to complain that we lost. That's fine, but it doesn't make any of the nonsense you make up true.

 

[eddie3]

I see the posts and KSR blog that talks about potential earnings. True if first round you cant pass up that 4 year guarantee. But, Liggins made 1.2M in 2 years.and out of the league. No mention of 40% tax bracket, 5-10 % to agent, living expenses etc....

 

[GridCats]

Gonzo, it's not the love of the jersey or KY BB, it's a commitment to what you sign up for. Only one stayed three years too.

Just let them go pro out of HS or give a commitment to stay.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Originally posted by GridCats:

Gonzo, it's not the love of the jersey or KY BB, it's a commitment to what you sign up for. Only one stayed three years too.

Just let them go pro out of HS or give a commitment to stay.

And that commitment is only as strong as the alternative options. What was a player going to do in 1955, join the army? Forcing someone to stay isn't commitment unless Cal can manage to inflict them with Stockholm Syndrome like Tom Crean or Billy Gillispie.

You know how we've always used our tradition as a massive selling point? The best players have come here because we've been the best program? That's still the exact same pitch. We're telling the player it's in his best interest to come play here, just like we always have. The reason we're their best option has changed, but the pitch hasn't.

 

[GridCats]

I'm not saying it's all about UK BB, you are. The rule needs to be changed so that kids can go out of HS or make a commitment to stay. Or something that works for fan's and students. There's been some really good ideas on how to make it better on here than what we now have.

 

[gamalielkid]

Yes Ed, but his other option was McDonald's at $18,000 per year. Let's see the, 1.2 million less taxes agent fees, etc. nets him about $600,000. He should not have gone, he will make that in only 33 years working at McDonald's - but wait he will still have to pay 10% taxes so that will make it more like 40 years - or his entire life to make that much money. Can you still blame him?

Most, not all, of these kids are coming from really poor economic situations. You can't blame the kids for taking the money. If you listen to Cal, all of the kids have the opportunity to come back on full scholarship after their basketball careers are over. So, these guys still have the opportunity to get their degrees and apply them.

I wish none of them would leave, but it is a good situation for these kids. You have to believe the Harrison's really believe they can stick. Were they going to improve themselves by staying? Maybe, but again Cal already told them if it doesn't work out, you can still come back and get your degree. At least they will go into the league without an injury that could keep them from every reaching the NBA.

Until the rules change, anyone with their potential's have to consider the pro option.

One last thing, if Devin Booker does go in the top 20 - I doubt he would ever go any higher - again - the guaranteed money makes it a no brainer. His Dad understands the money as well. If he gets that 5 million plus deal, that alone sets him up for life. How many on this board have that kind of money? I will bet you much less than 1%. If I had that opportunity for that kind of money I would take it.

Go Big Blue!

 

[jameslee32]

W I L D C A T S !

 

[catfaninsc_rivals377375]

You will not see anything different till the league changes their rules. The owners and gm's would like to see a two year rule. They have been talking about it for a while. But until it is changed or done away with the o+d theme is here to stay. All of these young men are making business decisions. It is a business decision to come to KY and play for Cal. It is a business decision to leave for the league. This current group represented the university and the state very well both on and off the court. Some for more than one year. Some not. Sure, as fan I would to see more stay longer. But all I am owed as a fan is that they represent the name on their chest well, both on and off the court, for as long as they are here. Most if not all develop a love of the program while they are here and some even before they get here. But in the end it is a business decision they make.
This post was edited on 4/10 7:56 PM by catfaninsc

 

[eddie3]

You have not figured living expenses, sudden rich syndrome, predaors, family and as you say those from low income families who havet little money handling experience. They leave with no degree and few skills other than playing bball

 

[GonzoCat90]

I'd rather blow $1.2 million than live in poverty forever. At least one way of being broke had some fun.


It's also incredibly paternalistic to act like "they" don't know how to manage their money and so a bunch of people making billions a year off their backs should get to decide when they're ready to have it.

If a guy doesn't think his draft stock would improve by staying in school, that's his decision. If he's okay with being undrafted and trying to make a roster, that's his decision. If he understands he could end up overseas, that's his decision. He and his family get to make that call. Forcing them to stay in school so fans can watch them longer and somehow feel better about this whole farce only "helps" one party.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

OP you're exactly right and I respect you for having the balls to say it. The problem is that this world is vastly different than it was in the so called good-old-days. I guess there is no right or wrong here since it's a matter of opinion but I'd say the younger guys on this board don't agree with you and the older guys do. I think we've been fortunate that our kids have represented themselves with class and 'got it' when it came to the passion of the BBN. Hopefully the NCAA will figure this thing out but I wholeheartedly agree with your post.

 

[Dutycat]

Originally posted by bluefort:

As I have read through many of these posts, I find them both interesting and distressing. It would seem that having any feeling but "hey thanks for gracing us for a year" is somehow tantamount to committing treason. Many people have been excoriated, some in the most juvenile of ways, for daring to express that type of sentiment.

The fact is that no one is right or wrong on this topic. Feeling "jilted" is a legitimate feeling. Feeling proud of our team and on a personal level, happy for each of these kids, is also a legitimate feeling. What's more, they are not mutually exclusive feelings.
Do these kids, or any of our players owe me personally anything? No, or course not. Do athletes attending the University of KENTUCKY on an athletic scholarship have a responsibility to represent our state, the university and by proxy, each of us, with pride and honor? They absolutely do. For the most part this group of kids has done that. For many of them though Kentucky was just a stopping off point and the most expedient way to get to what they really want, money and fame. KENTUCKY really didn't mean anything to them. I don't blame them for that. Certainly if I had the opportunity to be 19 rich and famous I certainly would take it!

What many of us are lamenting is the systematic breaking down of the college basketball culture that we all grew up loving. That attack is, in my opinion, being spearheaded by the NBA. In most other sports, MLB, being the best case, there is a working agreement and mutual respect for the function of amateur athletics. One organization is not flying the bird to the other.

The byproduct of that is that we get kids who don't truly care about KENTUCKY on the front of their jersey. In fact in these times when you put all the "players" in this equation: Players, Coaches, TV/Media, Fans... the only one of those four that cares about the name on the front of the jersey, is us, the fans. We also happen to be the ones that are spending the money that drives this industry. Do you think there is a big TV contract for McGill University basketball in Montreal? Of course there isn't. Why? Because there are no fans of McGill University basketball to spend money and demand coverage.

So, yes, in a way college basketball players, Kentucky basketball players though the years owe us all something. WE have created this industry. WE continue to spend the money that fuels the vehicle for these kids to achieve their dreams. So, Yes, I would like to see an environment where college basketball can thrive, kids have some modicum of loyalty to the name on the front of their jersey and the NBA becomes a partner to help college basketball thrive again. I don't have any answer for it, but I don't think it is unreasonable or disloyal for any of us to feel that way. It is also not unreasonable or wrong headed to be proud of our teams accomplishments, be happy for these kids and be looking forward to next season. My hope is that the powers that be in college and the NBA work to make college basketball healthy and viable for years to come. I personally don't feel that we are currently on that path. And yes, it wouldn't hurt my feeling to have a kid or two each year whose dream it was to play for KENTUCKY get a chance to shine. I fear for the future of the sport we love, but I hope for the best.

Go Big Blue!

Friend,

I read your previous rant and have read rafters every day for about a decade now. I think you were treated as civil as anyone. You are going to have to get past how people treat your sentiment...just a bit of advice,,,complaining about juvenile responses is a flawed strategy.

Sure you have the right to feel the way you feel and say what you want to say. Sounds like you mostly want to hear people tell you that you are right. Several have already.

Exactly which players are you accusing of "truly not caring about the KENTUCKY on the front of their jersey? Which of the Kentucky players are you accusing of not having a modicum of loyalty to the name on the front of the jersey? Every player that didn't stay to be a graduating senior or just a select few?

I buy about $100 worth of gear a year. I go to about 5 home games a year and 1-2 away games. I watch all others on TV. I was born in Kentucky and went to UK. I get to know these players plenty. My relationship and interest in them does not stop when they leave for the NBA (as you have stated yours does), and I actually feel disloyal to them if I only like and follow them while they play for UK. I absolutely do not think they owe me more for time and money I devote to UK basketball.

If you feel jilted that Booker chose UK for a year instead of Missouri for a year I get it. I feel grateful that he chose UK, knowing he would come off the bench and play fewer minutes. I really don't know what you want from players like him other than to go to a different school.

 

[bluthruandthru]

Guess what?

Everyone on earth is selfish.

Fans want something.

Players want something.

Everyone wants something.

Players are getting what they want and you aren't.

DEAL WITH IT.

 

[BlueRattie_rivals]

You can't blame people for doing what is in their own rational self-interest. We're human; that's what we do. Asking them to do something for your self-interest? Now that is an ethical problem indeed.

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

Originally posted by GonzoCat90:

I'd rather blow $1.2 million than live in poverty forever. At least one way of being broke had some fun.


It's also incredibly paternalistic to act like "they" don't know how to manage their money and so a bunch of people making billions a year off their backs should get to decide when they're ready to have it.

If a guy doesn't think his draft stock would improve by staying in school, that's his decision. If he's okay with being undrafted and trying to make a roster, that's his decision. If he understands he could end up overseas, that's his decision. He and his family get to make that call. Forcing them to stay in school so fans can watch them longer and somehow feel better about this whole farce only "helps" one party.

yup

 

[gracetoyou]

I think you all need to remember that these kids are not fans, nor think like fans, nor should they. They need to do what's best for their future.

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

Originally posted by bluefort:


The byproduct of that is that we get kids who don't truly care about KENTUCKY on the front of their jersey. In fact in these times when you put all the "players" in this equation: Players, Coaches, TV/Media, Fans... the only one of those four that cares about the name on the front of the jersey, is us, the fans.

Have you payed any attention to our OADs in the league now? Right from the very beginning, there are plentiful counterexamples - even that very first batch of superstars who came primarily for Cal. How Demarcus has a court in his house with a UK logo on it? How Bledsoe tweets out pictures of him decked out in UK gear before certain big tournament games? How Wall is constantly running his mouth to his teammates about how much better UK's fans are than of those other schools?

Or for an incredibly recent example, take this friggin thesis paper that Karl wrote thanking the fans and coaching staff.

Is every OAD kid crazy about UK? No, but neither is every normal player we've had. There are proportionally just as many long term players that we never hear from again. Compared to guys who were here 3-4 years, do you see drastically fewer one and dones back on campus in the summer or wearing UK gear or talking about the team in interviews or praising the program? No, not at all. Most of them are proudly affiliated, while some are quieter. Just like any other group of players.

 

[brianpoe]

Originally posted by GridCats:

I'm not saying it's all about UK BB, you are. The rule needs to be changed so that kids can go out of HS or make a commitment to stay. Or something that works for fan's and students. There's been some really good ideas on how to make it better on here than what we now have.

How is this even closely better for college basketball?

You want to the top 12-15 players to not play college?

What would that look like?

The best would be Wisconsin or Virginia, average would be Vandy.

No Okafor, no Towns, No Jonson, No Oubre, No Winslow, No Lyles, No Jones, No Wall, No Knight, No Anthony Davis, No Randle, No MKG.

Our best players since Cal arrived would be two guys who stayed 2 years (Jones and Lamb) and then WCS. And Darius Miller and then what Josh Harrelson? That sounds super exciting.

I would love a 2 and done. 3 years is incredibly too long, even for baseball, IMO. Straight out of HS would take great talent away and I do not blame the NBA for wanting more evidence a kid can play before throwing out millions of dollars. Every other profession can demand 4 year degrees and such, but that;s ok?




This post was edited on 4/11 7:26 PM by brianpoe