Is there another NCAA sport.....

[proud2bpokes]

that allows post graduate compensation to be a part of the recruiting process? I ask because I don’t know. Does it happen in soccer, volleyball, gymnastics, track, Etc? Are there other non-revenue, Olympic sports where the NCAA allows this to happen? I am confident that it is not supposed to happen in football or basketball (not to say it doesn’t happen anyway). A post by a psu recruit’s (Aaron Brooks) dad on Hawkeye Report of all places, states, in part, “Also, Greg’s situation changed, he needs to look long term. Very few wrestlers can make a living in this sport. He is now in that less than 1% and Okie State isn’t really in that race.” The referenced “Greg” being Greg Kerkvliet. The two websites are in the middle of a heated debate between fans of rival schools with an OSU recruit in the middle of the mess. Of course other unsubstantiated compensations to current roster wrestlers are being tossed around too. I absolutely don’t blame Kerkvliet for seeking “a living” for his talents and hard work if the NCAA allows it or if there is a legitimate profession (other than coaching) for wrestlers, i.e. National Wrestling League. I also absolutely believe that the NCAA should not allow booster funded wrestling clubs deceitfully tied to the Olympic Training Center to influence the competitive balance of NCAA competition. I will admit that during the last week, I was disappointed in Holder and Smith for not building up, holding back, or neglecting the CRTC which, in reading Kerkvliet’s own words, probably resulted in his decommitment. I ignorantly doubted the leaders of the wrestling programs desire and drive to be competitive. Perhaps it is a lesson learned nearly 30 years ago; a level of integrity instilled in leadership that stands firmly on the ground of winning only the right way; or me thinking about it too much().

 

[Wrassler17]

I read that thread also, some interesting posts. I tend to think of it as Team Foxcatcher being just across the street from the college. But in fairness, it's not just PSU and Iowa. Many colleges have established and funded robust RTCs.

As to your question about the other Olympic sports, I don't know. But for wrestling, I'm guessing that because the RTCs "hire" graduates from other schools also (for example, PSU signed Josh Rodriguez from NDSU, Iowa signed the Dardanes brothers), the NCAA is choosing to look the other way for now. But it will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the next 5-10 years.

 

[osu2082]

It is a problem for the sport at the college level IMO. It will cause a greater divide between the have's and have not's which will ultimately higher college wrestling. I think people will be surprised at the small number of the "have's" and the small number of programs that will be able to truly compete.

It's good for FS wrestling at the senior and national level but not for college wrestling. OSU not having an elite established RTC and ability to offer post grad compensation to a range of wrestlers is abolsitelt the reason we have lost out on DK.

 

[tim73034]

Adaptation theory, also known as survival theory or survival of the fittest, is an organism's ability to adapt to changes in its environment and adjust accordingly over time. Anyone who has spent anytime in a wrestling room understands how this applies, by wrestling with someone much better than you, you will adapt and get better over time. Its what has produced back to back titles over the years for various programs along with smart recruiting. right now it seems there are several programs beating us to the punch so to speak. Penn State and Ohio State are absolute monster programs that have not only recruited smart but used their RTC to keep there best guys around in order to develop the younger guys coming up. Iowa looks poised to me to make a big jump this year.. I know a lot of people have fixated on Desanto's behavior at the NCAA tournament and I am not excusing it. my point about him is that he is a clone of Terry Brands if ive ever seen one and as long as there is repoire between the athlete and the coaches, this kid is going to jump levels big time and be very difficult to deal with.. Arizona State continues to get big name recruits. NC State out performed us at ncaa's and looks solid going into this year. I posted earlier this year about the need to strengthen our RTC in order to keep out studs around after they graduate to bring the younger guys along. If I were Kerkvliet's parents I would be a fool to not look hard at Ohio State and the chance to train with the world and Olympic champ everyday.. In the current landscape we need everyone to meet or exceed expectations to be anywhere close to the podium.

 

[643Bsbl]

OSU has to Change the Their RTC into a monster if they Ever want to be in the top 2 again. PSU , Iowa And Ohio State are on a new level of RTC

 

[Wrassler17]

In addition to all the schools mentioned in this thread, Nebraska also has a very accomplished RTC. Besides Burroughs and Green, they also have Kendrick Maple, TJ Dudley, and Dom Bradley. That pretty much provides training partners for all 10 college weights. So it's not surprising that Kerkvliet is considering them.

Michigan has also developed a very strong RTC (Jon Morrison is there currently). Their recruiting has picked up as well. With Bormet as the new HC and a stand alone wrestling facility already in place, they are trending towards being a perennial top 5 power.

 

[Rdcldad]

with cormier hendrix and DC’s success

we could use MMA training to financially move the RTC forward?

 

[lookleftgoright]

I don't see any easy answers. If you want great athletes to complete in wrestling, they need opportunities and money. The RTCs provide that but they really hurt the small schools.

Pretty soon you could have all the top 3-4 guys at the NCAA tourney form 4-5 schools and the rest of the placers will scattered among the have nots. I love what it does for freestyle but I am an American first and Folkstyle is our style and I want it to be strong.

The argument used to be that Iowa's dominance was bad for the sport. However,that led to the Bigs being the conference they are and now to PSU being a power. Is that good? I don't know.

However, it seems that wrestling is a sport that is often dominated by a few schools. Heck, how many years did the pokes crush everyone? Perhaps there is nothing we can do about it except watch and cheer.

 

[tim73034]

Maybe we need to focus on hiring an additional coach to help develop guys at the bigger weights.. who is available right now?

 

[osu2082]

I don't see any easy answers. If you want great athletes to complete in wrestling, they need opportunities and money. The RTCs provide that but they really hurt the small schools.

Pretty soon you could have all the top 3-4 guys at the NCAA tourney form 4-5 schools and the rest of the placers will scattered among the have nots. I love what it does for freestyle but I am an American first and Folkstyle is our style and I want it to be strong.

The argument used to be that Iowa's dominance was bad for the sport. However,that led to the Bigs being the conference they are and now to PSU being a power. Is that good? I don't know.

However, it seems that wrestling is a sport that is often dominated by a few schools. Heck, how many years did the pokes crush everyone? Perhaps there is nothing we can do about it except watch and cheer.

I'm all for the growth of the sport at all levels (outside of Greco haha!) but think it's a dangerous thing the sport in the US to do that by aligning RTC's with universities.

That would be like the blue bloods in college basketball being able to setup and fund minor league or professional teams in their cities to provide post grad opportunities to their graduating players.

College wrestling has seen some very good growth over the last 5-6 years after a period of taking a step back and a bunch of that was due to the increased popularity and competitiveness at places outside of the traditional powers. The growth in these RTC's while good for FS and the senior level may very well hurt the sport at the amateur and college level which in the long run is not good for the sport.

The sport will grow and people have ties at the amateur and college level. They don't jump in at the senior level.

 

[Harleycowboy]

Maybe we need to focus on hiring an additional coach to help develop guys at the bigger weights.. who is available right now?

I am sure that was another problem with Kerkvliet, who was he going to work out with that would really push him.

 

[Wrassler17]

I am sure that was another problem with Kerkvliet, who was he going to work out with that would really push him.

Definitely. Last year, Kerkvliet's HS coach hired someone specifically to train with him. Now it appears Kerkvliet might do his senior year at the OTC, like Snyder, Brooks and others have done. The super elites seek out the best training environment and competition.

This has been a rough off season so far. It appears we might have 9 losses by my count - 2 post grads, 4 college guys, and 2 big time recruits/commits. But maybe overlooked is that Zeke Jordan also left a couple of months ago, so the volunteer coaching position is still open. I was hoping that we might lure Austin Schafer back, but I don't think we can match OU money wise. But how about Derek White next year after he graduates? He could train with the upper weights and also compete at 97 kg / 125 kg if he still has the itch.

 

[OSUMatFan]

I think the simple answer is to get very aggressive in funding a RTC. John needs to get aggressive and move on this. The effort to get this funded would not be that great. There are many avid wrestling fans of the most successful program in the country that would step up and contribute seven figures if the market in their business is right.

 

[Old Number Nine]

After reading all of the post responding to this thread, I have just one question;
Is there another NCAA sport that allows post graduate compensation to be a part of the recruiting process?

 

[osu2082]

After reading all of the post responding to this thread, I have just one question;
Is there another NCAA sport that allows post graduate compensation to be a part of the recruiting process?

None. Wrestling is a non-revenue minor sport in the eyes of the NCAA which is why this has been allowed to happen or more than likely just ignored.

Non-revenue sports have always survived with "volunteer" positions and GA's who are paid by working camps and clinics. Wrestling has continued to push that gray area and now are supporting full fledged paid "professional" wrestlers within their amateur program.

 

[chasepollard]

So, do we have a good plan or do we "plan" on just seeing what happens?

 

[slushhead]

. . . Now it appears Kerkvliet might do his senior year at the OTC, like Snyder, Brooks and others have done. . . .

Minor point of clarification, assuming you mean Aaron Brooks -- his stint at the OTC is coming after having already graduated HS.

 

[Wrassler17]

Minor point of clarification, assuming you mean Aaron Brooks -- his stint at the OTC is coming after having already graduated HS.

Yeah, I was thinking he also trained at the OTC this past year as a senior, but I see he finished up HS in Maryland. Kind of strange we didn't see him at any of the all star events, like WNO or the PWC.