Grade Cohen for 2009 Season
- Thread starter Indndawg
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how you can give that performance a B. Our "coach" last year didn't give a **** about anything other than himself and his jihad against the NCAA. He didn't recruit, he didn't coach, he didn't care. He got tossed out of games just for ***** and giggles. He made excuse after excuse as to why we sucked *** and then tried to sabotage our program when he didn't get his way. Cohen came in and barely improved our overall record. Barely. He did not inspire the guys on the roster, and he sulked midway through the year. If you give Polk an F for 2008 (and who wouldn't?) , how can you give Cohen a B for 2009, when we had the same team and barely different results?? Cohen totally underwhelmed me.
Having said that, I am still disappointed in the way the team essentially quit after the first MTSU game. I thought Cohen threw in the towel a little bit. Anyhow, I raise a glass to depussification and a torrent of recruiting in the mode of Saban. Time to rack up some Grade A top five classes.
So why exaclty do we even use the phrase "didn't give up" when speaking of sports in general and baseball in particular? If no one EVER does this then it would seem silly to even consider a team giving up.
Secondly, you state that "nobody wants to lose" as a way to show that the team didn't give up yet you state this about Cohen:
I am certain that Cohen didn't want to lose, hence he didn't give up either.
Your and idiot.
with that guy that you said you were agreeing with. He had broken down every facet of the game, except our offense.
So overall, we won more games and in conference we didn't get better but we didn't get worse as far as wins and losses despite losing our 2 best pitchers from last year. That's an F+?
I don't really know how you judge a baseball coach in 9 months one way or the other so I dont really give a grade. If forced to, I just know I wouldn't give him an A and I wouldn't give him an F.
So overall, we won more games and in conference we didn't get better but we didn't get worse as far as wins and losses despite losing our 2 best pitchers from last year. That's an F+?
I don't really know how you judge a baseball coach in 9 months one way or the other so I dont really give a grade. If forced to, I just know I wouldn't give him an A and I wouldn't give him an F.
I grade any coach's performance on Ws and Ls and I think that's the way it should be. That being said would I fire Cohen after this year? OF COURSE NOT! I believe any new coach should get a minimum of 3 years (unless they pull a Mike Price or something similar). I think Cohen is the right man for the job and I think he will do great things at MSU. BUT this season can't be given anything other than an F or a D at best. Next year I expect a B or a C+ at worse... that means making the SEC Tourney and a Regional. Year 3 BETTER be a B at worse and a preferable A to be considered successful... which is competing for SEC Championship (Top 4-5 at least) and hosting a regional.
All that said, several "grades" come into judging a coach overall. With such a short timeframe this year and such a bad season it's hard to give a "fair" assessment.
All that said, several "grades" come into judging a coach overall. With such a short timeframe this year and such a bad season it's hard to give a "fair" assessment.
Didn't inspire anyone? Sulked you say, hell so did I and any other Msu baseball fans who FOLLOW the Dawgs, he had pretty much zero talent compared to the rest of the league. What about Routt, Deloach, Sneed, Butler, C Powers, Whitney, Collins (who came on at the end of the season), Duffy and Freeman (who also came on late after a injury)? They all had pretty good seasons and better than the year before. With no pitching it is remarkable that he won 9 SEC games. Now, other than the players mentioned above would you please tell me of ANY players that were/or SEC players?
You're way off base with what you say about Cohen. For someone who hated Polk, Cohen should be "fresh air" to you or any other Msu baseball fans!
You're way off base with what you say about Cohen. For someone who hated Polk, Cohen should be "fresh air" to you or any other Msu baseball fans!
P
pokemystar
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"Your" is possessive. I think the word you were looking for is "you're". It's ok, better luck next time.DerHntr said:
that's not fresh air to me. It's the same ****** season we had last year. With the same ****** players. To me, that says he wasn't able to coach them up at all and doesn't bode well. But, like I said, I hope he proves me wrong.
And I actually followed it more this year than I have in years past, because I was so happy Polk was gone. I was just disappointed that Cohen didn't deliver any improvement where it matters - W's.
Not comparing the two, but it reminds me of 2004 football when most people (including me) excused some bonehead moves and the loss to Maine. Turns out those bonehead moves and inexplicable losses didn't stop happening.
And I actually followed it more this year than I have in years past, because I was so happy Polk was gone. I was just disappointed that Cohen didn't deliver any improvement where it matters - W's.
Not comparing the two, but it reminds me of 2004 football when most people (including me) excused some bonehead moves and the loss to Maine. Turns out those bonehead moves and inexplicable losses didn't stop happening.
Could Cohen be a collosal failure? Well, yeah. Could he also be successful? Probably so.
Keep in mind that Augie Garrido had a losing season his SECOND year at Texas- and this was after he had won at Cal-State Fullerton and Illinois. Pat Casey also had a losing season at Oregon State early in his career.
This kind of thing happens sometimes when a new coach comes in. Especially when a new attitude and a total makeover is needed.
There are many differences between Croom and Cohen. One of the many is that Cohen had the team improing statistically after he took over. He also has experience as a HC along with a history of success.
Keep in mind that Augie Garrido had a losing season his SECOND year at Texas- and this was after he had won at Cal-State Fullerton and Illinois. Pat Casey also had a losing season at Oregon State early in his career.
This kind of thing happens sometimes when a new coach comes in. Especially when a new attitude and a total makeover is needed.
There are many differences between Croom and Cohen. One of the many is that Cohen had the team improing statistically after he took over. He also has experience as a HC along with a history of success.
If you are going to credit Cohen for the offense improving then shouldn't he also be blamed for some of the pitchers getting worse? Weren't Bowen and Crosswhite pretty good pitchers at one time? Cohen told Us before the season that Our pitching coach had done an outstanding job improving Our pitchers.8Dog said:
Besides that , the base running problem that was season long without ANY correction is enough by itself to warrant the F grade. I have never coached any level above womens softball and I am 100% sure I could have improved this team's base running if I had been in the third base box.
I just thought your post was extremely one-sided. I didn't get blaming all this stuff on him and completely leaving out our offense.
The offense improved far more than the pitching got worse. Team ERA overall was better and in conference was a half run worse. Whereas offensively, there was dramatic improvement in almost every cat.
Frankly, at this stage, its impossible for me to give Cohen credit for anything or blame him. I have no idea who he impacted and who he didn't. Those kinds of things take 3-4 years of watching players come through the system. Baseball is all about individuals. You can't come in an put in a Princeton offense or a Spread option. Its all about individuals and their development, which takes time and talent.
And the thing that people keep forgetting about Bowen is that Ricky Bowen wasn't a good pitcher last year. Why he had a complete mental meltdown is beyond me. Maybe it was Cohen, maybe it was Thompson, maybe he just freaked out.
The offense improved far more than the pitching got worse. Team ERA overall was better and in conference was a half run worse. Whereas offensively, there was dramatic improvement in almost every cat.
Frankly, at this stage, its impossible for me to give Cohen credit for anything or blame him. I have no idea who he impacted and who he didn't. Those kinds of things take 3-4 years of watching players come through the system. Baseball is all about individuals. You can't come in an put in a Princeton offense or a Spread option. Its all about individuals and their development, which takes time and talent.
And the thing that people keep forgetting about Bowen is that Ricky Bowen wasn't a good pitcher last year. Why he had a complete mental meltdown is beyond me. Maybe it was Cohen, maybe it was Thompson, maybe he just freaked out.
Our top 4 pitchers in '08 were Weatherford, Lalor, Piggott, and Wilson and Tyler Moore led the team in HR's and RBI's, They must have used aliases this year.
Our ACE this year was suppose to be Bowen, who had an ERA of 7.61 in '08 and Cohen got here too late to recruit any talent for this team.
No doubt we should have been a whole lot better this year, I doubt the Ninja lets Cohen stay another year, nor should he with this embarrassing year.
Our ACE this year was suppose to be Bowen, who had an ERA of 7.61 in '08 and Cohen got here too late to recruit any talent for this team.
No doubt we should have been a whole lot better this year, I doubt the Ninja lets Cohen stay another year, nor should he with this embarrassing year.
The style of play and effort improved even with players not optimum for Cohen's style of play.
If we had had a decent middle relief and a couple of decent (not great but decent) closers we win 10 more games.
Thompson basically, in his run down of each pitcher after fall ball, said we would be very weak in the pitching department. Well damn, he was right.
I just liked the way we played despite the talent weakness. And that is due to coaching.
Now just get better players playing the same style and with the same effort.
If we had had a decent middle relief and a couple of decent (not great but decent) closers we win 10 more games.
Thompson basically, in his run down of each pitcher after fall ball, said we would be very weak in the pitching department. Well damn, he was right.
I just liked the way we played despite the talent weakness. And that is due to coaching.
Now just get better players playing the same style and with the same effort.
I will grade him when its fair TO grade him. That's next year when he gets his own players in here and starts to get out of Ron Polk's mess.
What can you really learn about a coach in one year, particularly when 0% of the team are players he recruited? I'm not excusing losses because I feel the same way about successful first year head coaches.
I'll give you two examples of grading first year head coaches.
- Manieri at LSU had a rough year one. He inherited a team that was vastly inferior talent wise to what LSU is used to and did nothing with it in terms of record. The next year his team vastly improved late in the year and made a big run. This year they are SEC Champs. What could one have learned about him in year one? How could one have evaluated him?
- Croom, though he had a bad first half of his first year, really saw big improvement in the second half of the year. We beat Florida and Kentucky, and we played Bama and Arkansas tough. We laid a turd against Ole Miss, but all in all I felt like he had a decent first year that could be built off of. Of course we know how that turned out as Croom never built off of any momentum gained in the previous season.
I refuse to grade Cohen either way. He has no players of his own on this team. If Polk left him a great team and we finished in the top 4 in the conference, would we know any more about his tenure here? He would still be winning or losing with another coach's players. I'll start evaluating him next season as his players start getting involved.
I'll give you two examples of grading first year head coaches.
- Manieri at LSU had a rough year one. He inherited a team that was vastly inferior talent wise to what LSU is used to and did nothing with it in terms of record. The next year his team vastly improved late in the year and made a big run. This year they are SEC Champs. What could one have learned about him in year one? How could one have evaluated him?
- Croom, though he had a bad first half of his first year, really saw big improvement in the second half of the year. We beat Florida and Kentucky, and we played Bama and Arkansas tough. We laid a turd against Ole Miss, but all in all I felt like he had a decent first year that could be built off of. Of course we know how that turned out as Croom never built off of any momentum gained in the previous season.
I refuse to grade Cohen either way. He has no players of his own on this team. If Polk left him a great team and we finished in the top 4 in the conference, would we know any more about his tenure here? He would still be winning or losing with another coach's players. I'll start evaluating him next season as his players start getting involved.
You're upset that Cohen didn't wave a magic wand and turn crappy players into good players. I see you talked about "coaching up" the players. I'll let you in on a little secret - that is way overblown by fans. Players with potential can be developed and good coaches can get the best out of players, but no coach can take crappy players and make them into good players.
It's really ridiculous to be upset with Cohen in year one. He was left a crap sandwich by Polk. All we learned about Cohen was that he isn't superhuman. Will he be successful? I don't know. I do know this: we should perhaps give the man a year with his own players before complaining about his coaching.
I'll let you in on something - Mullen doesn't have a magic wand either. In the fall we'll have "the same record with the same players" on the gridiron. I'm sure we'll see people ready to jump off the cliff too. People, there's nothing wrong with being brutally honest and realistic. There is something wrong with being negative just for the sake of it. I realize that we've sat through a lot of bad football and baseball recently with terrible coaching being a culprit, but that doesn't mean that hiring a good coach immediately solves all of our problems. We still lack talent. Calm down and let's see what these guys do when they get their own players in here and phase out the (lack of) talent left by the previous caoches.
It's really ridiculous to be upset with Cohen in year one. He was left a crap sandwich by Polk. All we learned about Cohen was that he isn't superhuman. Will he be successful? I don't know. I do know this: we should perhaps give the man a year with his own players before complaining about his coaching.
I'll let you in on something - Mullen doesn't have a magic wand either. In the fall we'll have "the same record with the same players" on the gridiron. I'm sure we'll see people ready to jump off the cliff too. People, there's nothing wrong with being brutally honest and realistic. There is something wrong with being negative just for the sake of it. I realize that we've sat through a lot of bad football and baseball recently with terrible coaching being a culprit, but that doesn't mean that hiring a good coach immediately solves all of our problems. We still lack talent. Calm down and let's see what these guys do when they get their own players in here and phase out the (lack of) talent left by the previous caoches.
He was a guy that had a lot of success at Notre Dame and even though he had losing seasons at Air Force, he was still setting school records for wins.
I think a guy with a track record for success should get a little leyway in his first year, especially if he's taking over a program that was a mess with a loser mentality, because more often than not, they are going to be able to repeat their success.
Plus, after this year, I'm pretty sure that Cohen is going to do everything in his power to not let this happen again.
And as far as the LSU comparison, it's actually pretty valid to this point. I think they finished 30-26, but they had the opposite problem from what we had. They had pretty good pitching, but thier hitting was pretty bad. Manieri cut his entire infield- including Nicholas Pontiff, who he ended up letting back on the team as a walk-on after a bunch of influential people complained.
I think a guy with a track record for success should get a little leyway in his first year, especially if he's taking over a program that was a mess with a loser mentality, because more often than not, they are going to be able to repeat their success.
Plus, after this year, I'm pretty sure that Cohen is going to do everything in his power to not let this happen again.
And as far as the LSU comparison, it's actually pretty valid to this point. I think they finished 30-26, but they had the opposite problem from what we had. They had pretty good pitching, but thier hitting was pretty bad. Manieri cut his entire infield- including Nicholas Pontiff, who he ended up letting back on the team as a walk-on after a bunch of influential people complained.
Is no one else worried that Cohen's recruits are in the cellar of the SEC with us? They didn't do very well this year and they were all his recruits. I don't see KY in the SEC tourney.
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