Foundation and Perception Change

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
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Yes this was a movie we have seen before, RU up 9 points late and cannot close it out. I take no moral victory from today's effort and yeah it sucks to lose but I am not that crushed over this loss. I do not think anyone could predict that we would be in this type of game with Wisconsin given how well their system and how well they can shoot and how poorly RU shoots. What is very important to focus on after this game is not the loss but the fact is RUTGERS IS NO LONGER A RUNNING JOKE IN THE BIG TEN. RU has competed at some point in virtually every game except Michigan State and they have really cut back on the blowouts that permeated and stunk up the Jordan era.

It is true that Wisconsin laid a stinky egg today for much of the game. I mean they shot 3-25 from 3 and alot of them were open, they missed countless layups. So we didnt get their best effort BUT much credit has to be given to the coaching staff and the players. Rutgers bothered Wisconsin, repeat after me Rutgers defense bothered Wisconsin a top 15 team and made them uncomfortable and totally took them out of the rhythm...FLUMMOXED...seems like the appropriate word. Changing defenses, every guy playing their man, it was pretty much the best defensive performance in years.

The word is out, Rutgers is not an easy out anymore. They will play great defense , they will rebound, they will fight and claw and give great effort. Unfortunately they cannot shoot. Today was prime example, this was a game where RU could have been up double digits but couldnt get anything going in half court and seemed to only go on runs scoring points. Foul shooting continued to be a struggle and more importantly were misses late, though in fairness Wisconsin shot them equally as poorly. RU just is not equipped to be able to pull out this game. I do not think it was a case of RU blowing the game but moreso Wisconsin stayed the course and were cool as cucumbers down the stretch and executed. Once it got into overtime I think most of us knew the game was over. Just got beat by a better team.

So going forward from here, the only issue of concern is the mindset of the team, Pike has to get this team to shrug this one off and have them in the right frame of mind for a very winnable game against a young and vulnerable Iowa squad who is struggling including Jok who may not be 100%. If RU can keep their head on straight and give another effort like today, they will likely pull the win out at the RAC, if not..... better days ahead but this is the foundation, the staff can coach, we just need better talent and guys who can shoot.
 

sct1111

All-American
Nov 30, 2014
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The Wisconsin fans were very condescending towards us. Idk if the perception has changed
 

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
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Today was fun...even in a loss, we got better and shut down a good Wisconsin offense. ..
 

bac2therac

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their fans but their coaching staff and players. I assume they expected a 20 point win and the last two matchup have been this way. They do not believe RU should be in the league based on merit but the play in the court is saying otherwise
 

sct1111

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their fans but their coaching staff and players. I assume they expected a 20 point win and the last two matchup have been this way. They do not believe RU should be in the league based on merit but the play in the court is saying otherwise
One Wisconsin fans behind is said he wouldn't be surprised if we didn't score at all in the second half. Meanwhilw they shot 18% in the first half. God I really wanted that win.
 

Degaz-RU

Heisman
Dec 19, 2002
22,339
26,591
88
Yeah I don't know about perception change amongst opposing FANS. Maybe amongst opposing coaches.

What I do know is that I haven't seen better defense from our team in years. Maybe EVER.

Such a shame that such a brilliant defensive effort will get lost in a, well, loss.
 
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winfield102

All-Conference
Jun 15, 2005
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We played very good defense and when wisconsin did get good looks(there were plenty), they missed. Even with that combo we couldn't pull out a win.

We just throw away way too many possessions with unforced turnovers. How many moving picks were called against us? How do we not know there are 2 seconds on the shot clock in an inbounds play? That **** is mind numbing. Sanders is good for 5-6 brain dead passes per game, with 3-4 ending up as TO's. Wanna win? Stop doing stupid ****.

We know we can't shoot 2's, 3's and foul shots. This team literally cannot afford to give away any possesions. The team should be forced to watch a compulation tape of the freebies that we've given the opponents this year. Hopefully the team will tigthen it up next year because expecting improved shooting isn't realistic IMO.
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,197
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Yes this was a movie we have seen before, RU up 9 points late and cannot close it out. I take no moral victory from today's effort and yeah it sucks to lose but I am not that crushed over this loss. I do not think anyone could predict that we would be in this type of game with Wisconsin given how well their system and how well they can shoot and how poorly RU shoots. What is very important to focus on after this game is not the loss but the fact is RUTGERS IS NO LONGER A RUNNING JOKE IN THE BIG TEN. RU has competed at some point in virtually every game except Michigan State and they have really cut back on the blowouts that permeated and stunk up the Jordan era.

It is true that Wisconsin laid a stinky egg today for much of the game. I mean they shot 3-25 from 3 and alot of them were open, they missed countless layups. So we didnt get their best effort BUT much credit has to be given to the coaching staff and the players. Rutgers bothered Wisconsin, repeat after me Rutgers defense bothered Wisconsin a top 15 team and made them uncomfortable and totally took them out of the rhythm...FLUMMOXED...seems like the appropriate word. Changing defenses, every guy playing their man, it was pretty much the best defensive performance in years.

The word is out, Rutgers is not an easy out anymore. They will play great defense , they will rebound, they will fight and claw and give great effort. Unfortunately they cannot shoot. Today was prime example, this was a game where RU could have been up double digits but couldnt get anything going in half court and seemed to only go on runs scoring points. Foul shooting continued to be a struggle and more importantly were misses late, though in fairness Wisconsin shot them equally as poorly. RU just is not equipped to be able to pull out this game. I do not think it was a case of RU blowing the game but moreso Wisconsin stayed the course and were cool as cucumbers down the stretch and executed. Once it got into overtime I think most of us knew the game was over. Just got beat by a better team.

So going forward from here, the only issue of concern is the mindset of the team, Pike has to get this team to shrug this one off and have them in the right frame of mind for a very winnable game against a young and vulnerable Iowa squad who is struggling including Jok who may not be 100%. If RU can keep their head on straight and give another effort like today, they will likely pull the win out at the RAC, if not..... better days ahead but this is the foundation, the staff can coach, we just need better talent and guys who can shoot.
bac- spot on comments.Rutgers has a very good game coach who keeps the team in games by adjustments and substitutions.This game,however, was lost because Rutgers couldn't hold a 9 point lead with less than 5 minutes to go and more importantly not making a basket for over 15 minutes in different parts of the game.Every possession was a nightmare because the Rutgers player couldn't beat his defender off the dribble or when they did ,they would miss the shot.

Pikiell tenure at Rutgers won't be dependent on this seasons team but will be impacted based on 2018 recruiting.There is a dire need for shooters which everybody knows is the case.What concerns me is that top tier recruits will follow precedent by looking at the won/loss record and hear negative recruiting against Rutgers.I don't see a Phil Sellers type willing to come to Rutgers which then would attract players such as Bailey ,Jordan.,Dabney and Copeland .Its been a long time waiting and the losses keep mounting.
 
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bac2therac

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Jul 30, 2001
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its all about recruiting, we have the foundation but these guys will be gone in 3-4 years when we can realistically make a NCAA push. These guys are hopefully the bridge players to get you from 14-17 to 16-15 to 18-13 to 21-10
 
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AreYouNUTS

Heisman
Aug 1, 2001
123,234
57,221
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I'll tell you what: B1G announcers love how this team plays. What a difference in the broadcasts from the last 2 years.
 
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78CollegeAve

All-Conference
Jul 1, 2001
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It's just about talent. Thought Knight and Hobbs would do better in '17 than Baker and Mensah when there's major playing time for any shooter. Can the staff develop Thiam and Laurent? Or is there more roster shrinkage and they find a grad or JuCo shooter?
 

AreYouNUTS

Heisman
Aug 1, 2001
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No these were Midwesterners. Wisconsin doesn't have too many front running NJ fans. Ohio state and Michigan yes, not Wisconsin.

Actually, they do, a lot of them. No, not as many as those schools, but still plenty. That being said, even if they're from the midwest, and moved here after school, same thing lol!
 
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bethlehemfan

Heisman
Sep 6, 2003
15,103
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Wisconsin's football fans were douches so I'm sure the bball fans were ******** too. In any event agree with bac here. Night and day what a coach can do. If he gets some shooters look out.
 
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RU MAN

Heisman
Oct 29, 2001
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We played very good defense and when wisconsin did get good looks(there were plenty), they missed. Even with that combo we couldn't pull out a win.

We just throw away way too many possessions with unforced turnovers. How many moving picks were called against us? How do we not know there are 2 seconds on the shot clock in an inbounds play? That **** is mind numbing. Sanders is good for 5-6 brain dead passes per game, with 3-4 ending up as TO's. Wanna win? Stop doing stupid ****.

We know we can't shoot 2's, 3's and foul shots. This team literally cannot afford to give away any possesions. The team should be forced to watch a compulation tape of the freebies that we've given the opponents this year. Hopefully the team will tigthen it up next year because expecting improved shooting isn't realistic IMO.
True. Ultimately it was the TO's that did us in. Even though we missed several important FT's (so what else is new?) the killer at the end of regulation of not blocking out not once but twice allowed them back in. And yes, I think CJ should have fouled Happ at the end of regulation and let him earn the tie at the charity stripe.

Still, as to what one of the posters said, "Wisconsin fans don't respect us..." who effin' cares at this point. We now finally have a REAL COLLEGE COACH and staff who know what the hell they're doing and I see major progress with this team. It will now come down to recruiting some real shooters who can not down not only 3's but consistently knock down the 17 footers. Add that to the equation and we win more of these types of games than lose.
 

TMCB

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Jul 25, 2001
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Great game, we need a few more players and shooters. Our coaching is top notch and the best i have seen at RU
 
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KevH

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
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Yes this was a movie we have seen before, RU up 9 points late and cannot close it out. I take no moral victory from today's effort and yeah it sucks to lose but I am not that crushed over this loss. I do not think anyone could predict that we would be in this type of game with Wisconsin given how well their system and how well they can shoot and how poorly RU shoots. What is very important to focus on after this game is not the loss but the fact is RUTGERS IS NO LONGER A RUNNING JOKE IN THE BIG TEN. RU has competed at some point in virtually every game except Michigan State and they have really cut back on the blowouts that permeated and stunk up the Jordan era.

It is true that Wisconsin laid a stinky egg today for much of the game. I mean they shot 3-25 from 3 and alot of them were open, they missed countless layups. So we didnt get their best effort BUT much credit has to be given to the coaching staff and the players. Rutgers bothered Wisconsin, repeat after me Rutgers defense bothered Wisconsin a top 15 team and made them uncomfortable and totally took them out of the rhythm...FLUMMOXED...seems like the appropriate word. Changing defenses, every guy playing their man, it was pretty much the best defensive performance in years.

The word is out, Rutgers is not an easy out anymore. They will play great defense , they will rebound, they will fight and claw and give great effort. Unfortunately they cannot shoot. Today was prime example, this was a game where RU could have been up double digits but couldnt get anything going in half court and seemed to only go on runs scoring points. Foul shooting continued to be a struggle and more importantly were misses late, though in fairness Wisconsin shot them equally as poorly. RU just is not equipped to be able to pull out this game. I do not think it was a case of RU blowing the game but moreso Wisconsin stayed the course and were cool as cucumbers down the stretch and executed. Once it got into overtime I think most of us knew the game was over. Just got beat by a better team.

So going forward from here, the only issue of concern is the mindset of the team, Pike has to get this team to shrug this one off and have them in the right frame of mind for a very winnable game against a young and vulnerable Iowa squad who is struggling including Jok who may not be 100%. If RU can keep their head on straight and give another effort like today, they will likely pull the win out at the RAC, if not..... better days ahead but this is the foundation, the staff can coach, we just need better talent and guys who can shoot.

What a great post. I agree with everything except that I do think they blew it and, predictably, poor shooting (from the field and the line) did us in. What wasn't predictable was how close they would keep this game by putting the clamps on Wisky. I know we play great D and hit the boards, but I thought this would be a double digit blowout.

Overall, although I was upset and disappointed at the end of regulation, How mad could I be at these guys? It's clear to me that this team is what it is. To expect much more might just be unreasonable. I was hoping for an exception today, but the future looks extremely bright for this program.
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,197
12,455
113
Fans for teams that are consistent winners like Wisconsin tend to look down at losing programs like Rutgers and that won't change until games like today result in losses.As seen at this game Wisconsin has a strong fan base on the road while Rutgers can't even sell out a small RAC arena.Winning matters in perception, recruiting and financial support.
 

bethlehemfan

Heisman
Sep 6, 2003
15,103
16,383
113
Fans for teams that are consistent winners like Wisconsin tend to look down at losing programs like Rutgers and that won't change until games like today result in losses.As seen at this game Wisconsin has a strong fan base on the road while Rutgers can't even sell out a small RAC arena.Winning matters in perception, recruiting and financial support.
Only the ********
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
29,408
28,554
113
Yes this was a movie we have seen before, RU up 9 points late and cannot close it out. I take no moral victory from today's effort and yeah it sucks to lose but I am not that crushed over this loss. I do not think anyone could predict that we would be in this type of game with Wisconsin given how well their system and how well they can shoot and how poorly RU shoots. What is very important to focus on after this game is not the loss but the fact is RUTGERS IS NO LONGER A RUNNING JOKE IN THE BIG TEN. RU has competed at some point in virtually every game except Michigan State and they have really cut back on the blowouts that permeated and stunk up the Jordan era.

It is true that Wisconsin laid a stinky egg today for much of the game. I mean they shot 3-25 from 3 and alot of them were open, they missed countless layups. So we didnt get their best effort BUT much credit has to be given to the coaching staff and the players. Rutgers bothered Wisconsin, repeat after me Rutgers defense bothered Wisconsin a top 15 team and made them uncomfortable and totally took them out of the rhythm...FLUMMOXED...seems like the appropriate word. Changing defenses, every guy playing their man, it was pretty much the best defensive performance in years.

The word is out, Rutgers is not an easy out anymore. They will play great defense , they will rebound, they will fight and claw and give great effort. Unfortunately they cannot shoot. Today was prime example, this was a game where RU could have been up double digits but couldnt get anything going in half court and seemed to only go on runs scoring points. Foul shooting continued to be a struggle and more importantly were misses late, though in fairness Wisconsin shot them equally as poorly. RU just is not equipped to be able to pull out this game. I do not think it was a case of RU blowing the game but moreso Wisconsin stayed the course and were cool as cucumbers down the stretch and executed. Once it got into overtime I think most of us knew the game was over. Just got beat by a better team.

So going forward from here, the only issue of concern is the mindset of the team, Pike has to get this team to shrug this one off and have them in the right frame of mind for a very winnable game against a young and vulnerable Iowa squad who is struggling including Jok who may not be 100%. If RU can keep their head on straight and give another effort like today, they will likely pull the win out at the RAC, if not..... better days ahead but this is the foundation, the staff can coach, we just need better talent and guys who can shoot.

1. Perception to the masses has not changed. In fact, from the people I've talked to, this blown lead helped perpetuate the same ole Rutgers perception that's been around for ages. Even if us as board fans see night in and night out it's knight and day from last year, casual fans, still see just the 1 in the W column.

2. You're just coming around on the defense now? I thought the defense was identical to what it's been all year - hard gritty D with some lazy perimeter defending mixed in - and with Diallo our best defending big - and with Gettys unable to defend. The last sequence is on Coach IMO. Just horrible design and assignment - Gettys cannot be in the game UGH.

3. With what's gone on around the league the last few nights ie bad teams like Illinois crushing Iowa then Iowa turning around and rolling over OSU it will be extremely disappointing if our record in conference is not markedly better than last year. They're are plenty of Ws out there yet our guys can't seem to find them even when it's right there for the taking.

Really disheartening. This is the type to result that can leave a team broken. I hope better times are ahead at the RAC this week because if not....
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
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1. Perception to the masses has not changed. In fact, from the people I've talked to, this blown lead helped perpetuate the same ole Rutgers perception that's been around for ages. Even if us as board fans see night in and night out it's knight and day from last year, casual fans, still see just the 1 in the W column.

2. You're just coming around on the defense now? I thought the defense was identical to what it's been all year - hard gritty D with some lazy perimeter defending mixed in - and with Diallo our best defending big - and with Gettys unable to defend. The last sequence is on Coach IMO. Just horrible design and assignment - Gettys cannot be in the game UGH.

3. With what's gone on around the league the last few nights ie bad teams like Illinois crushing Iowa then Iowa turning around and rolling over OSU it will be extremely disappointing if our record in conference is not markedly better than last year. They're are plenty of Ws out there yet our guys can't seem to find them even when it's right there for the taking.

Really disheartening. This is the type to result that can leave a team broken. I hope better times are ahead at the RAC this week because if not....


is this post for real..first not sure why you are taking a shot at me. We have known the RU defense has been solid all year, this isnt the first time I am posting this. Secondly whether your buddies care that perception is changing doesnt matter. Its that the coaches, players, and analysts are changing their perception, that is progress to the trainwreck and embarrassment of the last guy who you wanted back this year and roundly supported. Comparing results of similar talented teams...and yes Iowa, Illinois, Ohio State, Penn State are all basically the same right now doesnt really apply to Rutgers playing a program like Wisconsin that made the plays down the stretch to win. Give Wisconsin credit and stop trying to blame Rutgers

The only thing I agree with you is the mindset thing for the next game. Could be tough to revive them for Iowa.
 

ru66

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our fans also have an attitude it's called negativity----with a large dose of complaining
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,197
12,455
113
our fans also have an attitude it's called negativity----with a large dose of complaining
Winning matters in sports.Decades of futility causes fan reaction .because they get tired of hearing the program is in a rebuilding process when ever there is a coaching change.There must be accountability and expectations for improvement based on actual facts and not wishful thinking.
 
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RUinFla

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Aug 2, 2001
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Sojo, who cares what the "casual fan" thinks? We should care, at this point, how the perception is changing among HS coaches, recruits, and to some extent, the media. Is the casual fan going to buy a ticket? Is the casual fan's kid going to consider RU? The casual fans can get interested next year or the year after. The media has noticed--witness the continuing comments by announcers on the B1G network about the team's effort, rebounding and defense. Would bet HS coaches and recruits have noticed, as well, so RU coaches at their games have a little more cachet. You can bemoan the fact that EJ wasn't given this year to coach "his" recruits all you want, but at least salute the progress made. And yes, Gettys is clumsy and slow, but if he had been a better player, he would have signed with a better team. He brings energy and likes to get the crowd going. Focus on what he can do, not what he can't. You seem to think Diallo would have been a better choice for that last sequence. In retrospect.
TL
 
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RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
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is this post for real..first not sure why you are taking a shot at me. We have known the RU defense has been solid all year, this isnt the first time I am posting this. Secondly whether your buddies care that perception is changing doesnt matter. Its that the coaches, players, and analysts are changing their perception, that is progress to the trainwreck and embarrassment of the last guy who you wanted back this year and roundly supported. Comparing results of similar talented teams...and yes Iowa, Illinois, Ohio State, Penn State are all basically the same right now doesnt really apply to Rutgers playing a program like Wisconsin that made the plays down the stretch to win. Give Wisconsin credit and stop trying to blame Rutgers

The only thing I agree with you is the mindset thing for the next game. Could be tough to revive them for Iowa.

Not calling you out just some discourse my friend. It's all good.

I think you have been very negative all year (I've take an opposite position up until now) and I'm just surprised after blowing a win im such an unacceptable fashion, you're now ok with expressing a positive outlook - I find it surprising because we did not look much different than any game all year. Wisconsin just shot historically bad. That was really the only difference. And IMO - Pike did not make good line up decisions down the stretch; something we haven't seen this year thus far - at least to such an egregious extent.
 

ru66

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so I guess if your team loses , it's OK not to support it----to me that's when it needs your support the most---when it wins, that's easy---no matter how long it takes
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
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Not calling you out just some discourse my friend. It's all good.

I think you have been very negative all year (I've take an opposite position up until now) and I'm just surprised after blowing a win im such an unacceptable fashion, you're now ok with expressing a positive outlook - I find it surprising because we did not look much different than any game all year. Wisconsin just shot historically bad. That was really the only difference. And IMO - Pike did not make good line up decisions down the stretch; something we haven't seen this year thus far - at least to such an egregious extent.


do not think I have been that negative at all, my caution was that the 11-2 non conference start wasnt going to translate into the conference season because it would be tougher to respond to opponents runs which it has. Perhaps Wisconsin made the plays down the stretch to win, simple as that.
 
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Sep 29, 2005
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Not calling you out just some discourse my friend. It's all good.

I think you have been very negative all year (I've take an opposite position up until now) and I'm just surprised after blowing a win im such an unacceptable fashion, you're now ok with expressing a positive outlook - I find it surprising because we did not look much different than any game all year. Wisconsin just shot historically bad. That was really the only difference. And IMO - Pike did not make good line up decisions down the stretch; something we haven't seen this year thus far - at least to such an egregious extent.
It was more than Wusconsin "just" shot historically bad. RUs D caused that. When you play against a suffocating D, even the eventual open look becomes more difficult to make because of how hard one has to work to get the open look.
 
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