Expectations vs reality

[Cawood86_rivals]

What were yours when Cal was hired? Has he performed as well or better than you expected?

Cal came in like a man on fire. Recruiting like a fiend. Winning a ton and going to FF's and getting a title. UK was the "IT" school. Cal was the Big Boss of the family. Walked into gyms like he owned the place and took home who he wanted without much of a fight.

Can he get back to that? His biggest opponents are gone or about to be gone. Ol' Roy is gone. K is about to crawl back into his lair.

Do you believe Cal will once again run CBB or has he lost a step? Are you confident he will start another run like he had when he first came to UK?

 

[STL_Cat]

The first 5 years were insane and I wouldn't have expected him to keep up that pace.

I didn't think we would ever have a Final Four drought as long as the one we are currently in under Cal. These next 2-3 years are going to have a huge impact on Cal's legacy as a whole, imo.

 

[cathouse_rivals216755]

I really expected us to be on probation by now.

99.9% of the fans on this site thought Cal was a lying, cheating, snake oil salesman who was not a top level game coach when he was at Memphis.

It appears he may have stopped cheating.......hopefully.

One out of 4 ain't bad.

 

[Rangermike]

When he came I expected a 1-2 seed most years and he did that for a while but he stopped getting the elite one and done guy so he had some solid not great teams. I’m not bothered by not winning more titles hes made some good tournament runs it takes a little luck just ask Mark Few.

I expect him to get back to where he was coming in with an elite team every year. That’s how it looks now and for the next few years. The coaching staff we have now recruits at a higher level that’s huge. And the NIL money makes their job easier I don’t think you see as many elite guys going to mediocre schools and losing $$. The transfer portal is big you may not get elite guys but you can guarantee there won’t be a major weak spot like we had in past. And If Duke falls back that will help also but isn’t needed.

 

[STL_Cat]

My biggest issue honestly is no 1 seeds in the tournament since 2015. Granted had we made a championship run in 2017 that we very well could have made, the lack of 1 seeds wouldn't be as big of a deal. But the fact that in none of the past 6 seasons have we been considered one of the top 4 teams going into the tournament, that's a bad run for Kentucky basketball.

 

[SkyPrince1]

Whats Cals niche going forward?
Everyone in CBB will take OAD kids and K definatly said hold my beer in regards to Cal being king of OAD.
That leaves the "DDMO" which is more gimmick than anything else and if it ever was a thing, it was 10 yrs ago.
So what does Cal hang his hat on going forward?

 

[MdWIldcat55]

Kentucky hadn't been to the Final Four for a Dozen Years when Cal arrived, and he inherited a team coming off an NIT appearance, with recruiting at the level of Konner Tucker and Dakotah Euton and Vinnie Zollo.

In the 12 years since then, Kentucky has won a Championship, been to Four Final Fours, made the Elite Eight Seven Times and won the SEC outright and was ranked 8th in the two polls the year COVID canceled the tournament. That's a realistic shot at the Final Four two-out-of-every-three seasons, including two of the last three, when the Cats lost in the Elite Eight in OT and had an SEC champion team likely to be a 2-3 seed lose its chance to COVID. His recruiting has been, overall, the best in the country. Kentucky is sitting on the #1 recruiting class for next year, which includes the #1 player.

There it is in Black and White: the Before and the Since. Anyone who says Calipari hasn't revived the program, returned it to the top of the college basketball world, and restored it to where an Elite Program should be -- in the conversation most years for the Final Four and beyond -- is a troll or a fool.

 

[STL_Cat]

Kentucky hadn't been to the Final Four for a Dozen Years when Cal arrived, and he inherited a team coming off an NIT appearance, with recruiting at the level of Konner Tucker and Dakotah Euton and Vinnie Zollo.

In the 12 years since then, Kentucky has won a Championship, been to Four Final Fours, made the Elite Eight Seven Times and won the SEC outright the year COVID canceled the tournament. His recruiting has been, overall, the best in the country. Kentucky is sitting on the #1 recruiting class for next year, which includes the #1 player.

There it is in Black and White: the Before and the Since. Anyone who says Calipari hasn't revived the program, returned it to the top of the college basketball world, and restored it to where an Elite Program should be -- in the conversation most years for the Final Four and beyond -- is a troll or a fool.

Overall, I'm sure most agree.

I think most are probably surprised at the current 1 seed and Final Four drought we are in. Both things can be true.

 

[CELTICAT]

 

[CB3UK]

The first 5 years were better than I expected honestly. The last 5 or whatever it is now we've all outlined outlined graphed, they've been on par with Tubbys last 5. This year and next year are going to determine where this thing is headed.

Tubby obviously didn't want to fool with the recruiting UK demands. He didn't want to throw his assistants under the bus to save his own butt because I'm sure in his heart at that point he was ready for something different.

Cals made several staff shakeup and changes which says to me he's not done. He's obviously got some great recruits coming. But the results are going to have to be there.

Now that sounds doom and gloom but that's not how I'm saying it. I'm just saying it as a statement of fact. Losing in the Rd of 32 to Indiana or crap like K State, just not sure how kuch longer it could go on. But I think we've got a solid team right now and we have a lot of basketball in front of us. We don't know what we have yet. Ready for Saturday to find out. Notre Dame is meh this year. We should ne able to run the off the court.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

When he came I expected a 1-2 seed most years and he did that for a while but he stopped getting the elite one and done guy so he had some solid not great teams. I’m not bothered by not winning more titles hes made some good tournament runs it takes a little luck just ask Mark Few.

I expect him to get back to where he was coming in with an elite team every year. That’s how it looks now and for the next few years. The coaching staff we have now recruits at a higher level that’s huge. And the NIL money makes their job easier I don’t think you see as many elite guys going to mediocre schools and losing $$. The transfer portal is big you may not get elite guys but you can guarantee there won’t be a major weak spot like we had in past. And If Duke falls back that will help also but isn’t needed.

Good post. I'm hoping that is it as well.

 

[ClickCat40]

Kentucky hadn't been to the Final Four for a Dozen Years when Cal arrived, and he inherited a team coming off an NIT appearance, with recruiting at the level of Konner Tucker and Dakotah Euton and Vinnie Zollo.

In the 12 years since then, Kentucky has won a Championship, been to Four Final Fours, made the Elite Eight Seven Times and won the SEC outright and was ranked 8th in the two polls the year COVID canceled the tournament. His recruiting has been, overall, the best in the country. Kentucky is sitting on the #1 recruiting class for next year, which includes the #1 player.

There it is in Black and White: the Before and the Since. Anyone who says Calipari hasn't revived the program, returned it to the top of the college basketball world, and restored it to where an Elite Program should be -- in the conversation most years for the Final Four and beyond -- is a troll or a fool.

This sums it up. I honestly don't know what everyone wants or expects. UK has won 8, count em 8 Championships. Ive seen all coaches, Hall, Sutton, Pitino, etc lose as higher seeds or get upset or so called underachieve. We have had more great players and have had more big wins in any 12 year stint I can remember. Is it perfect, definitely not, but has it ever been??? Other than last season, which I actually felt bad for those kids...because they didn't get any of the good associated with playing at UK, but they got all the bad, I enjoy every game, even the last 7 games.

IMO there is nobody you could get to put UK in this position for this extended time period.

 

[STL_Cat]

We have had more great players and have had more big wins in any 12 year stint I can remember.

1993-2005 was a pretty great 12 year run. Unless you mean by just the one coach.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Kentucky hadn't been to the Final Four for a Dozen Years when Cal arrived, and he inherited a team coming off an NIT appearance, with recruiting at the level of Konner Tucker and Dakotah Euton and Vinnie Zollo.

In the 12 years since then, Kentucky has won a Championship, been to Four Final Fours, made the Elite Eight Seven Times and won the SEC outright and was ranked 8th in the two polls the year COVID canceled the tournament. His recruiting has been, overall, the best in the country. Kentucky is sitting on the #1 recruiting class for next year, which includes the #1 player.

There it is in Black and White: the Before and the Since. Anyone who says Calipari hasn't revived the program, returned it to the top of the college basketball world, and restored it to where an Elite Program should be -- in the conversation most years for the Final Four and beyond -- is a troll or a fool.

Good points. Cal has done things at UK that only Rupp had Pitino had done. Recruited at a higher level that anyone. His first 6 years were magical.
That level would be hard, if not impossible to sustain. I do believe Cal can do that again if the fire he had is re-ignited.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

The first 5 years were better than I expected honestly. The last 5 or whatever it is now we've all outlined outlined graphed, they've been on par with Tubbys last 5. This year and next year are going to determine where this thing is headed.

Tubby obviously didn't want to fool with the recruiting UK demands. He didn't want to throw his assistants under the bus to save his own butt because I'm sure in his heart at that point he was ready for something different.

Cals made several staff shakeup and changes which says to me he's not done. He's obviously got some great recruits coming. But the results are going to have to be there.

Now that sounds doom and gloom but that's not how I'm saying it. I'm just saying it as a statement of fact. Losing in the Rd of 32 to Indiana or crap like K State, just not sure how kuch longer it could go on. But I think we've got a solid team right now and we have a lot of basketball in front of us. We don't know what we have yet. Ready for Saturday to find out. Notre Dame is meh this year. We should ne able to run the off the court.

I'm not as high on this team right now. The pieces might be there, but they are not fitting together yet. Something is missing. The shooting, for one, is not near the level this team will need to be a real contender.

 

[wildcat111]

What were yours when Cal was hired? Has he performed as well or better than you expected?

Cal came in like a man on fire. Recruiting like a fiend. Winning a ton and going to FF's and getting a title. UK was the "IT" school. Cal was the Big Boss of the family. Walked into gyms like he owned the place and took home who he wanted without much of a fight.

Can he get back to that? His biggest opponents are gone or about to be gone. Ol' Roy is gone. K is about to crawl back into his lair.

Do you believe Cal will once again run CBB or has he lost a step? Are you confident he will start another run like he had when he first came to UK?

He crashed and burned 6 years ago... happy now to count his $$$.

 

[Atrain7732]

The first 5 years were insane and I wouldn't have expected him to keep up that pace.

I didn't think we would ever have a Final Four drought as long as the one we are currently in under Cal. These next 2-3 years are going to have a huge impact on Cal's legacy as a whole, imo.

I think this is a fair statement and I agree.

As stated by OP, I think that K leaving leaves a potential void in recruiting that Cal along with NIL may be able to exploit. I know Scheyer has a good class setup post K for next year, but it still remains to be seen whether he can keep up the pace. Hopefully not.

I also think the transfer rule could be a boon for UK if Cal is willing to continue to use it. I guess we will all find out within the next couple years. Next years class looking pretty solid so far, just hoping Sharpe will stay past this season.

 

[MNantz]

Cal was like a super nova when he got here . He was taking the spotlight away from ESPN's chosen coach , the rat faced bastard . I am curious to see if ESPN, anoints Scheyer as their next coach to promote or picks someone like The Rug Doctor and his five level one NCAA violations

 

[CB3UK]

I'm not as high on this team right now. The pieces might be there, but they are not fitting together yet. Something is missing. The shooting, for one, is not near the level this team will need to be a real contender.

Last night was the second game I actually got to watch and not just listen to radio.

I kept noticing on offense how we'd space our shooters out a lot better than we have in past years, but it still seemed like we were trying to force the ball inside. While I like that, what happened to whipping the ball around the horn. Good passing, find the open man. It certainly looked better than the same old Cal having a guy run into the lane and force up a shot but the offense needs a lot of work.

That being said they're putting up points and pretty high in efficiency. I don't understand some folks fascination with us trying to force up a ton of 3 ptrs. If the shot is there, shoot it. I see it as a means to open up the paint so we can drive or pound it. I think some fans are hung up on the 3s because Cal said we'd try to do more. It's the same as folks complaining about Stoops running Rodriguez early in the uear when it made sense to, because they expected Coen to have Levis sling it around the yard like Couch or some ****.

Really I think we need Keion to settle in and command his role. Everyone else at 1 2 3 and 5 are pretty well solid. But that 4 spot is a mess and we need KB there to own it and help lead the way as a vet

 

[track42]

Last night was the second game I actually got to watch and not just listen to radio.

I kept noticing on offense how we'd space our shooters out a lot better than we have in past years, but it still seemed like we were trying to force the ball inside. While I like that, what happened to whipping the ball around the horn. Good passing, find the open man. It certainly looked better than the same old Cal having a guy run into the lane and force up a shot but the offense needs a lot of work.

That being said they're putting up points and pretty high in efficiency. I don't understand some folks fascination with us trying to force up a ton of 3 ptrs. If the shot is there, shoot it. I see it as a means to open up the paint so we can drive or pound it. I think some fans are hung up on the 3s because Cal said we'd try to do more. It's the same as folks complaining about Stoops running Rodriguez early in the uear when it made sense to, because they expected Coen to have Levis sling it around the yard like Couch or some ****.

Really I think we need Keion to settle in and command his role. Everyone else at 1 2 3 and 5 are pretty well solid. But that 4 spot is a mess and we need KB there to own it and help lead the way as a vet

Meh.Brooks just isn't that good.

 

[KA4Prez_rivals78700]

The "prime" period has passed, but Cal is still one of the top 5-10 out there in all facets. The parity is higher than ever. The reliability and loyalty is lower than ever. You just simply aren't going to sustain much from year to year anymore.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Last night was the second game I actually got to watch and not just listen to radio.

I kept noticing on offense how we'd space our shooters out a lot better than we have in past years, but it still seemed like we were trying to force the ball inside. While I like that, what happened to whipping the ball around the horn. Good passing, find the open man. It certainly looked better than the same old Cal having a guy run into the lane and force up a shot but the offense needs a lot of work.

That being said they're putting up points and pretty high in efficiency. I don't understand some folks fascination with us trying to force up a ton of 3 ptrs. If the shot is there, shoot it. I see it as a means to open up the paint so we can drive or pound it. I think some fans are hung up on the 3s because Cal said we'd try to do more. It's the same as folks complaining about Stoops running Rodriguez early in the uear when it made sense to, because they expected Coen to have Levis sling it around the yard like Couch or some ****.

Really I think we need Keion to settle in and command his role. Everyone else at 1 2 3 and 5 are pretty well solid. But that 4 spot is a mess and we need KB there to own it and help lead the way as a vet

This team does have a post up player or two that can score when you really need it.
They must be able to shoot it better. Guarantee teams will pack it in and make them prpve they can. Oscar will be doubled or teams will put someone in front lagging off their man.
UK is supposed to have shooters. They need to start being makers.
The 3pt line is further out than it has ever been. Shot makers will pull them out if they can start making them.
Problem is, Cal is playing Brooks at the 4th man out and he can't handle the ball well enough to get by his man when they come out him. Neither can Toppin or Collins. Hopkins can but he isn't getting the minutes. Hope he does when is healthy. I believe he can.

 

[Cobb4uk_rivals287622]

Not taking up for Cal, coaching wise, or recruiting, but the Duke's, Kansas, UofL and all the others that everyone knows cheats, offering money etc.. The NCAA would have a field day if Cal ever approached what these schools have done. Anyone ever notice the difference in the draws UK get versus what draws Duke usually gets. Ever notice the foul discrepancies in the tournament when UK plays. Just food for thought.

 

[mebeblue2]

if you do not cherry pick and look at the whole picture we are about where i expected and have gotten our monies worth

 

[MakinMusic_rivals]

I like what he brings to the table as a whole. I think he ended up complacent from his early success. May or may not be true. Lots of things go into wins and losses. Lots of uncontrollable variables. I think he has one more championship in him. Not sure it’s this team but….

 

[billCgmx]

From hearing Cal talk, I expected multiple National titles by now. He hasn't delivered and I'm not sure he ever
will.

 

[yoshukai]

Whats Cals niche going forward?
Everyone in CBB will take OAD kids and K definatly said hold my beer in regards to Cal being king of OAD.
That leaves the "DDMO" which is more gimmick than anything else and if it ever was a thing, it was 10 yrs ago.
So what does Cal hang his hat on going forward?

Well it’s certainly not having WWW on speed dial anymore.

 

[Wunky]

Cal literally stated in his introductory press conference when he was hired that he wanted to close the title gap with UCLA.

Now technically, he’s done that (by 1). But Carolina also has 1 in that time, plus another 1 the year before he got here. And 3 other programs (Duke, UConn, and Nova) all have 2 titles since Cal has been here. Given that we’ve had more overall talent than all 3 of those programs, 1 title is disappointing.

 

[yoshukai]

if you do not cherry pick and look at the whole picture we are about where i expected and have gotten our monies worth

It looks a lot better if it’s spread out and balanced and not so “front end loaded” . That’s not how it has played out though. Trend matters , at least to me .

 

[Wunky]

It looks a lot better if it’s spread out and balanced and not so “front end loaded” . That’s not how it has played out though. Trend matters , at least to me .

Yep. And the fact that we are trending downward SINCE Cal got his lifetime contract is what makes it really disturbing.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

My biggest issue honestly is no 1 seeds in the tournament since 2015. Granted had we made a championship run in 2017 that we very well could have made, the lack of 1 seeds wouldn't be as big of a deal. But the fact that in none of the past 6 seasons have we been considered one of the top 4 teams going into the tournament, that's a bad run for Kentucky basketball.

I am not sure that UK shouldn't have been the 1 seed in 2017 and 2019...the committee gave it to UNC both times and put us as their 2. I know one year we had the choke job vs. UT in the SEC Tournament that they used to justify dropping us.

 

[UK-Chulo]

Good points. Cal has done things at UK that only Rupp had Pitino had done. Recruited at a higher level that anyone. His first 6 years were magical.
That level would be hard, if not impossible to sustain. I do believe Cal can do that again if the fire he had is re-ignited.

I’m not sure Cal can do better. The way the top big men choose to go elsewhere makes me think there is something with Cal’s reputation that is hampering our ability to land them.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

This team does have a post up player or two that can score when you really need it.
They must be able to shoot it better. Guarantee teams will pack it in and make them prpve they can. Oscar will be doubled or teams will put someone in front lagging off their man.
UK is supposed to have shooters. They need to start being makers.
The 3pt line is further out than it has ever been. Shot makers will pull them out if they can start making them.
Problem is, Cal is playing Brooks at the 4th man out and he can't handle the ball well enough to get by his man when they come out him. Neither can Toppin or Collins. Hopkins can but he isn't getting the minutes. Hope he does when is healthy. I believe he can.

We’ve been weak at the 4 in recent years in that very aspect. We don’t have one that can take their man off the bounce. Outside or Hopkins, of course.

 

[SmyrnaCatFan]

Reality vs. expectation can be disappointing. For me, our three point make consistency and our free throw shooting last night have been disappointing vs my expectations. Just thought we would be doing better in those areas.

 

[K_TIME]

Kentucky hadn't been to the Final Four for a Dozen Years when Cal arrived, and he inherited a team coming off an NIT appearance, with recruiting at the level of Konner Tucker and Dakotah Euton and Vinnie Zollo.

In the 12 years since then, Kentucky has won a Championship, been to Four Final Fours, made the Elite Eight Seven Times and won the SEC outright and was ranked 8th in the two polls the year COVID canceled the tournament. That's a realistic shot at the Final Four two-out-of-every-three seasons, including two of the last three, when the Cats lost in the Elite Eight in OT and had an SEC champion team likely to be a 2-3 seed lose its chance to COVID. His recruiting has been, overall, the best in the country. Kentucky is sitting on the #1 recruiting class for next year, which includes the #1 player.

There it is in Black and White: the Before and the Since. Anyone who says Calipari hasn't revived the program, returned it to the top of the college basketball world, and restored it to where an Elite Program should be -- in the conversation most years for the Final Four and beyond -- is a troll or a fool.

Very true...and we canned a coach and ran the other coach that were those streaks. So it's clear the last 6 years of Cal are not the expectation. I get his first 5 years are very good and count toward him. But he's clearly trending in the wrong direction

And I just don't see final four team for this squad to be honest (but time will tell).....and if Sharpe plays this year..I dn't see him staying for 2022 year no matter what he says. And if he bolts, that really messes up the potential of Cal's back to high level kids leading to titles. Again, I dont' see how we get off this roller coaster ride as we never build a team.

 

[Trinity45]

What were yours when Cal was hired? Has he performed as well or better than you expected?

Cal came in like a man on fire. Recruiting like a fiend. Winning a ton and going to FF's and getting a title. UK was the "IT" school. Cal was the Big Boss of the family. Walked into gyms like he owned the place and took home who he wanted without much of a fight.

Can he get back to that? His biggest opponents are gone or about to be gone. Ol' Roy is gone. K is about to crawl back into his lair.

Do you believe Cal will once again run CBB or has he lost a step? Are you confident he will start another run like he had when he first came to UK?

My expectations were 2 maybe 3 NC over 10 years, he started out like a raging inferno but since 2015 it has been more like a bic lighter.

 

[WeWant9]

I don’t see Cal getting back to that 2010-2015 level. That was one hell of a run. The landscape has changed and I don’t see it happening again. That doesn’t mean he can’t be successful to close out his tenure at UK.

I do think Cal needs one more title for his legacy, and I believe he sees that too. So I do think he will try his damnedest to get it, and then call it quits. I’m still optimistic he gets one more title at UK.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

So it's clear the last 6 years of Cal are not the expectation. I get his first 5 years are very good and count toward him. But he's clearly trending in the wrong direction

This often-repeated claim that Kentucky has been in steep decline in recent years is absolute nonsense. Let's look at the facts:

2017 - A last second shot from the Final Four. Many would argue that game was for the Championship, and Kentucky played it with a horrible and biased official actively working against them.

2018 - A bad game at a bad time ended the year after the Cats made the Sweet 16 (some programs celebrate those, but I agree Kentucky shouldn't.)

2019 - An overtime loss away from the Final Four. A frustrating game against a team that happened to get red hot at the right time, crushing Kansas and UNC-Cheats before the Kentucky game. One chance for a free throw away. It happens in college basketball.

2020 - A team that won the SEC outright by three full games and was ranked 8th in both polls didn't get to make a tourney run because of COVID.

2021 - A disastrous year in one of the most unique and atypical years in NCAA history.

So, that's Kentucky's recent past: Two teams that came a bounce of the ball from the Final Four, another conference champion that didn't get a chance to make a patented Calipari run in five years. That's not a program that has fallen off the cliff.

 

[STL_Cat]

This often-repeated claim that Kentucky has been in steep decline in recent years is absolute nonsense. Let's look at the facts:

2017 - A last second shot from the Final Four. Many would argue that game was for the Championship, and Kentucky played it with a horrible and biased official actively working against them.

2018 - A bad game at a bad time ended the year after the Cats made the Sweet 16 (some programs celebrate those, but I agree Kentucky shouldn't.)

2019 - An overtime loss away from the Final Four. A frustrating game against a team that happened to get red hot at the right time, crushing Kansas and UNC-Cheats before the Kentucky game. One chance for a free throw away. It happens in college basketball.

2020 - A team that won the SEC outright by three full games and was ranked 8th in both polls didn't get to make a tourney run because of COVID.

2021 - A disastrous year in one of the most unique and atypical years in NCAA history.

So, that's Kentucky's recent past: Two teams that came a bounce of the ball from the Final Four, another conference champion that didn't get a chance to make a patented Calipari run in five years. That's not a program that has fallen off the cliff.

More simply put, the facts are zero 1 seeds or Final Four appearances since 2015.

You could do the same stuff with Tubby in the last 5 years of his tenure, too. He got really close a couple times.

 

[docholiday51]

Good thread with good discussion. I would like to focus on the past
3 years because the state of the game has changed during that time
The transfer portal lessened the impact of OAD,I think Cal has adapted
to the change fairly well.

Two years ago we had a pretty good team but we will never know how good.
Last year the team was historically bad and I think we are still "shell shocked"
(including Cal) from that experience. It is December 8 and we have no idea
what kind of team we have right now. They are fun to watch (which is an
improvement over the last couple of seasons.

For the record I don't believe Cal will ever return to the level we saw in
his first 5 seasons. Cal has become Tubby 2.5