Do we start the FAB 3 Next year?
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J Mike isn't starting.There needs to be a 3 point shooter from the transfer portal similar to Spencer.
Cliff/Portal Big
Bailey
Harper
Mag
JWill
Bailey
Harper
Mag
JWill
There is no way that Pike can go into the season having Summerville pegged in as starter
I think Sommerville is going to have a great RU career but next year he’s a 12-15’ a game guy
We don't know if Somerville will have a freshman year like Iowa's Owen Freeman or Rutgers' Gaven Griffiths. But fair to say he won't earn a starting position right out of the gate.
Lathan is gonna be a BEAST .. BUT we cannot start a freshman at Center in the Big Ten aka 24 year old offensive lineman centers Conference … hit the portal
Lot of balls in the air. Could see us basically nobody or basically everybody.
Really too early to tell. Will come down to who wants out and can leave with an ok landing spot (Williams/mag) and what pike decides to do with who should be shown out (Simpson/wolf/palm/chol/etc).
Really too early to tell. Will come down to who wants out and can leave with an ok landing spot (Williams/mag) and what pike decides to do with who should be shown out (Simpson/wolf/palm/chol/etc).
exactly...he may turn out to be a wunderkind but its very hard to expect a freshmen on an already young team to play major minutes right away at the 5.
And you wonder why I defend Simpson and why I question those who raise JMike over Simpson. SMH.
If he doesn't start game one I think it'll be like with James Bailey....a veteran starts the season but the freshman replaces him in the starting lineup early in the season.
Sounds like Lathan will at least get an opportunity to be the backup 5.
Dortch and Grant seem like a more interesting conversation.
Are they basically going to be end of the rotation?
Are they expected to pass GG, Mag, Simpson, Davis (plus any potential other transfers) in the rotation?
If so, are they going to be comfortable with that?
Someone has to replace Woolf, A Will, Chol on the roster. Not everyone can play.
It seems like every team may have to deal with the 11th, 12th and 13th guys considering transferring for playing time if they don't immediately play.
Dortch and Grant seem like a more interesting conversation.
Are they basically going to be end of the rotation?
Are they expected to pass GG, Mag, Simpson, Davis (plus any potential other transfers) in the rotation?
If so, are they going to be comfortable with that?
Someone has to replace Woolf, A Will, Chol on the roster. Not everyone can play.
It seems like every team may have to deal with the 11th, 12th and 13th guys considering transferring for playing time if they don't immediately play.
Really intrigued at the possibilities for next year's lineup. Too many unknowns in who will be back but I will assume for now Mag and Jwill are back and Cliff is not. The difficult question will be do we need both of Davis and Simpson? Davis has the potential to be an elite on ball defender that can be very useful on this team, so I am sticking with him.
Jwill
Harper
Bailey
Mag
Portal center
Griffiths
Davis
Somerville
Ogbole
Portal guard to replace Simpson (3 and D?)
Those are the 10 I think we can build and trim a rotation out of depending on who is healthy and playing well. The rest I see as end of bench guys playing limited minutes
Dortch
Grant
Palm (seems to be well-liked completely fine having him as the 13th man)
It's a nice roster, but it still is dependent on Bailey and Harper being as advertised, getting a good portal center and guard, and seeing development from Griffiths and Davis. Looking at that bench scares me a bit. Do we also need another component 4 as a contingency for Mag?? This will be a very interesting offseason
Jwill
Harper
Bailey
Mag
Portal center
Griffiths
Davis
Somerville
Ogbole
Portal guard to replace Simpson (3 and D?)
Those are the 10 I think we can build and trim a rotation out of depending on who is healthy and playing well. The rest I see as end of bench guys playing limited minutes
Dortch
Grant
Palm (seems to be well-liked completely fine having him as the 13th man)
It's a nice roster, but it still is dependent on Bailey and Harper being as advertised, getting a good portal center and guard, and seeing development from Griffiths and Davis. Looking at that bench scares me a bit. Do we also need another component 4 as a contingency for Mag?? This will be a very interesting offseason
This is basically how I see it, though I’m more willing to bring back Simpson as a bench guard (if he wants such a role).
Yea that will be a tough call for both Pike and Simpson. I like Derek and want him to be good but with Williams and Harper likely handling the ball the majority of the time, IDK what kind of role he would have. On the other hand, most are in agreement we need a quality center that will demand NIL, whether it's Cliff or in the portal. Hard to see us having NIL for that, keeping Mag, keeping Williams, plus a guard better than Derek. I am very curious if guys will want to stay or come for less NIL if they like their role and want to get NBA scout eyes on them. As intriguing an offseason as we've had in a long time.
If Lathan does not start , he will likely be like Kbee said , like James Bailey replacing Bruce Scherer by the 6th game of the year. I can see Pike starting Egbole because of his size and defensive shot blocking but I expect Lathan to get the majority of the minutes. Plus we do not know if he will be another Owen Freeman at Iowa. Fran hardly ever starts freshman but Freeman has been better than they thought. Let’s also not forget Lathan is the highest rated 5 or center we have ever brought in during our entire basketball history. If is unlikely a one and done like ACE and Dylan but he will in all likelihood be very good. He has a handle , has a drop step , can step out and hit a three and can play defense and shot block. If Wolf leaves , go get a portal center , otherwise I would live with Egbole , Lathan and Wolf at the 5.
At the guards you have Dylan and Jeremiah as the starters and Derek and JMike as the backups.
At the wings , you have ACE and MAG and Gavin , Dorsch and Grant as the backups.
That is the top 11. Not sure Austin Williams is back , nor Choi and already think Cliff , Andre , Oskar and Noah are gone.
Pike can add a multi year portal shooting guard for when Dylan leaves and a multi year center to back up Egbole and Lathan if Wolf leaves
The 2025 recruits will be helping Jeremiah , Derek and JMike at guard , Gavin , Dortsch and Grant on the wings , and Lathan , Egbole at center. Getting McKinney for 2025 would be ideal .
This is not correct. Somerville is currently ranked #101 nationally. Cliff was #42 in his class. Greg Echenique was #50 in his class. Hamady N'diaye was #68 in his class.
If that is true , I stand corrected. Let me phrase it differently , Lathan will be the most advanced skilled player we have ever brought in at the center position. You cite Cliff and Hamady who were shot blockers and dunkers only with no handle , no driving ability and no three point range. Echenique was skilled on the block but not with his handle , nor driving ability or no three point ability.
Now they were all terrific defensive centers but do not have Lathan’s offensive skill set
I was at the game vs Penn at MSG ('75-76 season) when Bailey first replaced Palko in the Starting lineup..Sommerville could be in a similar situation, if EO is temporary starter..
If Cliff returns, then he starts of course, with lots of options for backup..he is top rate defender, and offense will be primary dunks and put-backs.. opposition can longer double team him, in fact, they will often have to double team Dylan & Ace, freeing up a lot of dunks..
A 3 point shooter from the portal will be a priority, as we are losing both Hyatt & Noah next year..
If Cliff returns, then he starts of course, with lots of options for backup..he is top rate defender, and offense will be primary dunks and put-backs.. opposition can longer double team him, in fact, they will often have to double team Dylan & Ace, freeing up a lot of dunks..
A 3 point shooter from the portal will be a priority, as we are losing both Hyatt & Noah next year..
This
Latham is not gojng to be a project on offfense .
If we didn’t have Ace and dykan …we would be going Gaga over him .
How much he plays depends on his S&C thjs off-season and how quickly he adapts to Pike style defense and board
He can play sone four too with good S&C….
I’ll bite,
Dylan
Ace
Cliff/portal 5
Mag/portal 4 or JWill
Wing who can shoot or maybe Gavin if rapid improvement
6th man
JWill or Mag
Dylan
Ace
Cliff/portal 5
Mag/portal 4 or JWill
Wing who can shoot or maybe Gavin if rapid improvement
6th man
JWill or Mag
If Cliff doesn’t come back, we need a portal 5 and a shooter. Anything less than that won’t work.
Highest rated center with at least 10 letters in his name in RU history
If you don't think Ace and Dylan are starting you're insane. Whether or not you think they deserve it for their work on the defensive end is another matter....but they're starting.
We are missing a lot of important factors.
How effective can any offense be where two players (Mag and Cliff) are not perimeter players, are not shooters or threats to shoot from 3 and are not good passers/playmakers??
What offense is going to work when neither player can create offense for themselves OR create a drive to shoot, pass or find an open shooter??
As much as this topic continues to come up in regards to running an offense AND improving/complimenting the others, Cliff and Mag don't help Ace and Dylan by catching passes and playmaking to find Dylan or Ace if they are open.
We have 2 games at home in B1G games where we scored 46 points with Cliff and Mag as starters. Why isolate 2 home games?? Because if RU is going to make the NCAAs, it cannot have 2, 4 or 6+ games where 2 of the starters that fans want to start, have literally no chance to get to 20 PTS in a game.
Why would I mention or ask Cliff or Mag to score 20 PTS in a B1G game?? Because SOMEONE else has to put the ball in the basket. And there is ZERO chance that someone else in the starting lineup has a chance to ever reach 20 PTS in a game, if they cannot shoot from the perimeter or make 3s.
Lathan Sommerville is a freshman next year, but he has a better chance of potentially reaching 20 PTS in a game, with his skill sets, shooting, playmaking and passing, before Cliff or certainly Mag ever will.
This thread is absolutely fantastic and disappointing that fans will whine for years upon years about recruiting and then add on "we don't score" and literally have the same people claim we need to lock into 25 to 28 minutes a game with 2 players who don't shoot well, don't create assists or passes to others who could shoot and are totally reliant on post ups, which clog the lanes for Ace and Dylan.
It's also somewhat of a 1% chance that just plugging in Jay Young, who I like a lot, is somehow going to magically make Cliff a good passer out of the post, going to improve his instincts and skill sets in 4 to 6 months. Can Cliff improve on some aspects?? Sure....but he's ONE player who works hard and is important on the defensive end
On the other hand, we are suddenly asking Ace and Dylan to score 20 PPG each, in order to win games. Is there a scenario where RU wins next year, where Ace goes 3-13 from the field and 1 of 7 from 3 PT range and only scores 12 points 4 to 5 times next year and Mag, Cliff make up the differences ?? There's literally no chance of that happening, and fans reading this, absolutely know it is 100% or highly unlikely....if they're not doing it NOW, why would I magically think it will happen next year??
Penn State....46 PTS....
29 minutes, 8 PTS and 6 rebounds from Cliff.....
15 minutes, 0 PTS, 1 rebound from Mag
Maryland.....46 PTS......
17 minutes, 5 PTS, 4 boards from Cliff
18 minutes, 2 PTS. 1 rebound from Mag.
Keep in mind, Maryland and PSU are unlikely to even make the NIT OR may not even be over .500.....we're not talking about Michigan State, Purdue, Illinois or another Top 25 type program.
I am not against bringing back Cliff, but I would absolutely start Sommerville at the 4 and let him shoot some perimeter shots, make some plays and passes and hit some 3s. Then when Cliff goes out, I would slide Lathan to the 5 for 7 to 10 minutes a game....Sommerville warrants 24 to 26 minutes a game next year.
How effective can any offense be where two players (Mag and Cliff) are not perimeter players, are not shooters or threats to shoot from 3 and are not good passers/playmakers??
What offense is going to work when neither player can create offense for themselves OR create a drive to shoot, pass or find an open shooter??
As much as this topic continues to come up in regards to running an offense AND improving/complimenting the others, Cliff and Mag don't help Ace and Dylan by catching passes and playmaking to find Dylan or Ace if they are open.
We have 2 games at home in B1G games where we scored 46 points with Cliff and Mag as starters. Why isolate 2 home games?? Because if RU is going to make the NCAAs, it cannot have 2, 4 or 6+ games where 2 of the starters that fans want to start, have literally no chance to get to 20 PTS in a game.
Why would I mention or ask Cliff or Mag to score 20 PTS in a B1G game?? Because SOMEONE else has to put the ball in the basket. And there is ZERO chance that someone else in the starting lineup has a chance to ever reach 20 PTS in a game, if they cannot shoot from the perimeter or make 3s.
Lathan Sommerville is a freshman next year, but he has a better chance of potentially reaching 20 PTS in a game, with his skill sets, shooting, playmaking and passing, before Cliff or certainly Mag ever will.
This thread is absolutely fantastic and disappointing that fans will whine for years upon years about recruiting and then add on "we don't score" and literally have the same people claim we need to lock into 25 to 28 minutes a game with 2 players who don't shoot well, don't create assists or passes to others who could shoot and are totally reliant on post ups, which clog the lanes for Ace and Dylan.
It's also somewhat of a 1% chance that just plugging in Jay Young, who I like a lot, is somehow going to magically make Cliff a good passer out of the post, going to improve his instincts and skill sets in 4 to 6 months. Can Cliff improve on some aspects?? Sure....but he's ONE player who works hard and is important on the defensive end
On the other hand, we are suddenly asking Ace and Dylan to score 20 PPG each, in order to win games. Is there a scenario where RU wins next year, where Ace goes 3-13 from the field and 1 of 7 from 3 PT range and only scores 12 points 4 to 5 times next year and Mag, Cliff make up the differences ?? There's literally no chance of that happening, and fans reading this, absolutely know it is 100% or highly unlikely....if they're not doing it NOW, why would I magically think it will happen next year??
Penn State....46 PTS....
29 minutes, 8 PTS and 6 rebounds from Cliff.....
15 minutes, 0 PTS, 1 rebound from Mag
Maryland.....46 PTS......
17 minutes, 5 PTS, 4 boards from Cliff
18 minutes, 2 PTS. 1 rebound from Mag.
Keep in mind, Maryland and PSU are unlikely to even make the NIT OR may not even be over .500.....we're not talking about Michigan State, Purdue, Illinois or another Top 25 type program.
I am not against bringing back Cliff, but I would absolutely start Sommerville at the 4 and let him shoot some perimeter shots, make some plays and passes and hit some 3s. Then when Cliff goes out, I would slide Lathan to the 5 for 7 to 10 minutes a game....Sommerville warrants 24 to 26 minutes a game next year.
NJH....
you are really really really missing the mark. Mag needs to give more and Cliff would be a luxury as a perimeter player. Cliff can be an asset when used right.
THE PROBLEM is guards not being perimeter shooters. Simpson and Davis are killing our offense way more than Mag or Cliff.
Mag is a CF hitting .240
Cliff is a C hitting .240
Simpson and Davis are 1b and LF hitting .220
As far as Lathan...let's get him here 1st. See how he handles playing defense and offense and see how many minutes he should and could play.
you are really really really missing the mark. Mag needs to give more and Cliff would be a luxury as a perimeter player. Cliff can be an asset when used right.
THE PROBLEM is guards not being perimeter shooters. Simpson and Davis are killing our offense way more than Mag or Cliff.
Mag is a CF hitting .240
Cliff is a C hitting .240
Simpson and Davis are 1b and LF hitting .220
As far as Lathan...let's get him here 1st. See how he handles playing defense and offense and see how many minutes he should and could play.
We are on the same page, Hawk. I say we don’t NEED Mag, but could come off the bench as a D stopper. In watching Latham video, he has a shot and moves that Cliff doesn’t. (Cliff I feel won’t return anyway might go to Europe) I say let’s go with the Fab 3, Gavin, then either Simpson, JWill, JMike, the 3 headed point.
Cliff is a bike. He needs people to pedal for him to go. If you pedal he will go. Cliff can be a huge asset on offense.
You guys are crazy if you think it is certain that Somerville has a big impact as a freshman.
He is an undersized center playing in B1G. It is possible he makes a big impact, but I certainly wouldn't bet money on it.
He is an undersized center playing in B1G. It is possible he makes a big impact, but I certainly wouldn't bet money on it.
I am already assuming another guard is brought into help Dylan, so I'm not sure why we are discussing Simpson and Davis as shooters...they are not projected to be starters next year.
In terms of Mag, he is being asked to start or I keep seeing he has to be here for RU to win.....there's literally no evidence that is true on offense or defense.
The guard defense is significantly better this year vs last year, which reduces the need to have Mag on the court for defense. And Mag is not rebounding the basketball, so I'm not even getting 7 to 8 rebounds from him, even if he didn't score much.
I don't see any items that are being done at a high level. Cliff is a very good rebounder and more than capable shot block center. In order to maximize Cliff on defense, he can't try and block the shot of another player and ask Cliff to block out Julian Reese and Jordan Geronimo, who gobble up dunks and rebounds. If Mag was that player grabbing those boards when Cliff goes for the block, it would be a different story.
There are players who either have to rebound at a high level OR give RU shooting. Even RHJ, who was all B1G 2nd or 3rd team, was asked to play the 4 at times and it was a lot to ask RHJ to play the 4, next to Cliff.....but at least RHJ is giving me PTS and 3s on offense....which is why his 3 PT shooting got RU into the NCAAs 2 years ago.
We need a Yeboah type forward or someone like that, bare minimum....Mag is nowhere near Yeboah as a shooter or playmaker and Yeboah was a very good defensive player. We can find someone like that and a guard OR at worst, play Lathan some at 4 and 5 and go with the other frosh at PF in Dortch and Grant.
We need shooting and scoring. We cannot carry BOTH Cliff and Mag next year as starters on offense without another guard AND an upgrade.
I don't see ANY path that makes sense to get a Mag upgrade from the portal and ask Mag to take a reduced role, which blocks Lathan from the 4 and blocks Dortch and Grant from minutes at the wing, 4. There's no path or room IMO, I think the writing is on the wall, unless Mag makes enormous improvements not yet seen at this time.
I will watch more but his defensive "effort" in high school leaves a lot to be desired. I want to watch some HS tape on a guy like Owen Freeman to see how it compares.
Based on next year's roster as it currently stands, Mag projecting to start is some wild take to you? He starts now when 'healthy'. If you think Lathan is starting at the 4 from Day 1 then ok.... pretty sure you're on your own there?