DAY AFTER REACTION -- Purdue

[Degaz-RU]

1. Matt Painter is the best coach in the Big Ten hands down, and he has the best player in the conference with Braden Smith. Purdue's offensive sets are just elite, and Smith operates the offense like the engine of a well-oiled machine. You watch that offense and you just see players moving constantly with purpose, and then Smith knows exactly where to locate the open shooters. It's really a thing of beauty to watch. We were always a step or two behind where they were going.

2. Smith and Trey Kaufman-Renn are a deadly one-two punch. Smith will end up the leading assist man in NCAA history when all is said and done, but he has really developed as a shooter and scorer too. Makes him doubly dangerous and impossible to guard. And TKR is a walking double-double. If he is anywhere near a rebound, he is getting it, and his short range jump hook is unstoppable.

3. As usual, Painter has stocked the roster with quality big men with Cluff and Jacobsen. They do just enough on offense, are good rebounders, and protect the paint and the rim.

4. Solid outing for JMike (9 points, 5 assists, 0 TOs), but none of the other starters were effective until Grant had a late spurt after the game was already decided. Pike tried starting Darren Buchanan over Denis Badalau, and Buchanan had his moments, but it didn't make a huge difference against the #1 team in the country.

5. Freshman update: Harun Zrno led the team in scoring again (tied with Grant with 13 points), which is the second time he's done that against top competition (Tennessee and now Purdue). The guy legitimately has a sweet stroke, so if he can just be mediocre as a defender, he can really help this team. Solid minutes from Lino Mark -- who is getting more comfortable operating the offense and is a pretty good on-ball defender -- and Kaden Powers. Powers finally hit a couple of shots, which will hopefully give him confidence moving forward. Scrappy game from Chris Nwuli, but he struggled with fouls. Badalau was completely lost and ineffective in 4 minutes.

6. I never know how much stock to place in the "plus/minus" stat, but all of our starters were between -14 and -20, and the bench players were -1 to +5. That could simply be a function of Purdue coasting after they got the big lead, but I think it's also true that we seemed to play better when the subs were in the game, including during the 10-0 kill shot in the first half, and certainly in the 2nd half after Purdue went up by +20. It bears watching if more changes to the starting lineup will be forthcoming.

7. There are no stars on this team, but rather some decent players, most of whom are young and/or inexperienced both in college basketball and in Pike's system. There's someone different nearly every night who leads the team in scoring, which can be a good thing but is more of a bad thing because it highlights the lack of top-end scorers on this team.

8. Things don't get any easier with Michigan up next in Ann Arbor. Today's KenPom has Michigan as the #1 team overall and Purdue as the #2 team overall, and Michigan has the #1 defense. Going to be difficult for us to break 50 points on Saturday, let alone 60 or more.

BUT, I'm not taking too much from these two games other than the fact that we already know we are talent deficient AND that Purdue and Michigan are two of the top teams in the country. We might not see much progress in these games just because of that, but it doesn't mean progress isn't happening behind the scenes and won't happen after Saturday. The ceiling for this team is still probably 16-15 if everything goes right, and I'm not really banking on even that. But what happened/happens in these two games are not really an indicator one way or the other.

 

[ClassOf02v.2]

Just here to agree that Purdue’s offense is so clinical and really enjoyable to watch. Purposeful motion & crisp, constant ball movement. Really impressive.

Painter took it easy on Pike in the second half. Could have been a 30+ point differential if he wanted it to be.

 

[Simce91]

Good post as always Degaz

The only exception I take is your use of " talent deficient". Perhaps "underdeveloped" is a better description

Don't get me wrong, Pike made this bed with his piss poor recruitment and portal activity the past 3 years ( Harper and Ace aside) . However if he and Zinn get some $$$ and replicate Painters success with retention of this group of frosh, plus Grant and Dortch and compliment it with a transfer or 2, he could be dancing again in a year or 2.

 

[LeapinLou]

It was a good and well reasoned post until you said 16-15. I don't think you really believe that. I honestly would be surprised if they got more than 11 wins. Of course I would love for you to be right and your basketball IQ is higher than mine, but I don't see it.

I don't know what's up with Grant but he needs to be hungrier on defense. We could have started that game up 6-0 but it was 6-5 because Perdue was getting 2nd and 3rd chances to score. They were not only the more talented team, but the hungrier team up until it was 21-9. Then we started playing better to get the game close before their talent took over. But them outhustling our starters was disappointing.

Lino and NWuli play like Freshman. But I love their effort.

 

[Mholinko]

Good post as always Degaz

The only exception I take is your use of " talent deficient". Perhaps "underdeveloped" is a better description

Don't get me wrong, Pike made this bed with his piss poor recruitment and portal activity the past 3 years ( Harper and Ace aside) . However if he and Zinn get some $$$ and replicate Painters success with retention of this group of frosh, plus Grant and Dortch and compliment it with a transfer or 2, he could be dancing again in a year or 2.

Purdue is the program Pike has aspired to be since he got here and I think it’s the type of program Rutgers fans have aspired to be too from a standpoint of how they run the program while also being successful and keeping a clean operation

painter retained all of his key contributors and was able to compensate them accordingly and used the portal exactly how it’s intended to be used

he spent money on a center in Cluff who could backup his all conference guy and probably paid some $$$ for Mayer who played professionally for Maccabi Tel Aviv which is in euro league and in essence the best professional league outside the nba

everyone else is a true American frosh or retained player

 

[Simce91]

Painter portaled Cluff from South Dakota State and Murphy from Northern Florida. Both solid additions

 

[goru7]

1. Matt Painter is the best coach in the Big Ten hands down, and he has the best player in the conference with Braden Smith. Purdue's offensive sets are just elite, and Smith operates the offense like the engine of a well-oiled machine. You watch that offense and you just see players moving constantly with purpose, and then Smith knows exactly where to locate the open shooters. It's really a thing of beauty to watch. We were always a step or two behind where they were going.

2. Smith and Trey Kaufman-Renn are a deadly one-two punch. Smith will end up the leading assist man in NCAA history when all is said and done, but he has really developed as a shooter and scorer too. Makes him doubly dangerous and impossible to guard. And TKR is a walking double-double. If he is anywhere near a rebound, he is getting it, and his short range jump hook is unstoppable.

3. As usual, Painter has stocked the roster with quality big men with Cluff and Jacobsen. They do just enough on offense, are good rebounders, and protect the paint and the rim.

4. Solid outing for JMike (9 points, 5 assists, 0 TOs), but none of the other starters were effective until Grant had a late spurt after the game was already decided. Pike tried starting Darren Buchanan over Denis Badalau, and Buchanan had his moments, but it didn't make a huge difference against the #1 team in the country.

5. Freshman update: Harun Zrno led the team in scoring again (tied with Grant with 13 points), which is the second time he's done that against top competition (Tennessee and now Purdue). The guy legitimately has a sweet stroke, so if he can just be mediocre as a defender, he can really help this team. Solid minutes from Lino Mark -- who is getting more comfortable operating the offense and is a pretty good on-ball defender -- and Kaden Powers. Powers finally hit a couple of shots, which will hopefully give him confidence moving forward. Scrappy game from Chris Nwuli, but he struggled with fouls. Badalau was completely lost and ineffective in 4 minutes.

6. I never know how much stock to place in the "plus/minus" stat, but all of our starters were between -14 and -20, and the bench players were -1 to +5. That could simply be a function of Purdue coasting after they got the big lead, but I think it's also true that we seemed to play better when the subs were in the game, including during the 10-0 kill shot in the first half, and certainly in the 2nd half after Purdue went up by +20. It bears watching if more changes to the starting lineup will be forthcoming.

7. There are no stars on this team, but rather some decent players, most of whom are young and/or inexperienced both in college basketball and in Pike's system. There's someone different nearly every night who leads the team in scoring, which can be a good thing but is more of a bad thing because it highlights the lack of top-end scorers on this team.

8. Things don't get any easier with Michigan up next in Ann Arbor. Today's KenPom has Michigan as the #1 team overall and Purdue as the #2 team overall, and Michigan has the #1 defense. Going to be difficult for us to break 50 points on Saturday, let alone 60 or more.

BUT, I'm not taking too much from these two games other than the fact that we already know we are talent deficient AND that Purdue and Michigan are two of the top teams in the country. We might not see much progress in these games just because of that, but it doesn't mean progress isn't happening behind the scenes and won't happen after Saturday. The ceiling for this team is still probably 16-15 if everything goes right, and I'm not really banking on even that. But what happened/happens in these two games are not really an indicator one way or the other.

Your #1 and #2 are dead on but Smith on the court make Purdue 10 points better. The minute he comes out they are great. If Smith is hitting threes forget about it . What hurt inthe first half was Harris who hardly scores hit 3 threes and had 11points and we were down by 13 at half. All because Smith found him wide open.
Renn could have trouble against size. A bigger frontline will be more challenging.
Your#4 with. The lineup change and Buchanan and Nwuili hopefully become starters for Badalau. And Francis. They bring better defense , potentially better rebounding and potentially better offense and getting to the line.
Your# 6 and Zrno andPowers Ihave been clamoring for, especially Zrno. His 3 point stroke will keep us in games and his defense is no worse than Francis. Pike did a good job of setting up the sideline screens to free him up . It would be great if we can consistently get him 8 open looks per game or looks coming off screens.
Powers more erratic. Seems to force his shot instead of letting game .come to him .He hit1 three but he missed2 wide open ones when we got a rare offensive rebound and second chance point look.Thestaffthinks he can shoot but he has not been efficient. Hopefully his shooting comes around.
Your #7 needs a nuanced response . Dylan is our best player , our best shooter and best scoring option.Pike has to prioritize that he is and put him spots to succeed . He cannot be on the bench for 7-10 minutes. He uncharacteristically missed 2 layups early but Pike did nothing to set him up after that. Buchanan has offensive ability and running high pick and role with manny or with Dylan with shooters ready for the 3 point lockout needs to happen..
Overall, Pikehas to stop subbing like there is a participation trophy .His sub of Fall cost a 6 point swing

 

[tru2ru1]

Purdue will get curb stomped by Michigan & Michigan State, they won't be #1 for long.

 

[Degaz-RU]

It was a good and well reasoned post until you said 16-15. I don't think you really believe that. I honestly would be surprised if they got more than 11 wins. Of course I would love for you to be right and your basketball IQ is higher than mine, but I don't see it.

I don't know what's up with Grant but he needs to be hungrier on defense. We could have started that game up 6-0 but it was 6-5 because Perdue was getting 2nd and 3rd chances to score. They were not only the more talented team, but the hungrier team up until it was 21-9. Then we started playing better to get the game close before their talent took over. But them outhustling our starters was disappointing.

Lino and NWuli play like Freshman. But I love their effort.

There is a difference between a “ceiling if everything goes right” and what reasonably can be expected to happen. I even said I don’t think we will hit the 16-15 ceiling, but I truly believe that if everything goes right with this team, we could achieve 16-15. But when does everything go right anywhere, let alone at Rutgers?

 

[BillyC80]

Good, positive post.

I give Pike credit for sitting some guys who were ineffective and giving others more minutes to prove themselves.

Glad to see Powers contribute, as he appears to have some solid upside and good size for a guard.

Dortch is a surprisingly good ball handler for a big, and he shows good poise out there, to go along with his outstanding attitude and hustle.

Lino still has a ways to go, but you can see what Pike must see in him, with his speed and quickness and competitive fire. More control, finishing drives, and making his FTs will hopefully come with additional floor time.

Zrno being the leading scorer against our two Top 10 opponents so far tells me he gets up for big games. He needs to improve his D for sure, but the effort and willingness is there. Offensively, I was impressed with his off-ball movement (that actually reminded me of Loyer), his quick release, form, and accuracy on threes, which will serve him and the team well in conference play.

Fall and Ware looked out of sorts, and both will have to work hard to earn PT going forward.

Hats off to JMike who again showed leadership and toughness while continuing to shoot well, with an excellent assist to turnover ratio (5/0).

Overall there were some encouraging signs that we can use this game and the next one against the top two teams in the country to build our confidence for a competitive B1G season.

 

[knight82]

If they play like they did against Purdue when they play the mid to lower tier Big Ten teams they might win a few. Certainly would not have lost to CCSU with last night's effort.

 

[RU MAN]

1. Matt Painter is the best coach in the Big Ten hands down, and he has the best player in the conference with Braden Smith. Purdue's offensive sets are just elite, and Smith operates the offense like the engine of a well-oiled machine. You watch that offense and you just see players moving constantly with purpose, and then Smith knows exactly where to locate the open shooters. It's really a thing of beauty to watch. We were always a step or two behind where they were going.

2. Smith and Trey Kaufman-Renn are a deadly one-two punch. Smith will end up the leading assist man in NCAA history when all is said and done, but he has really developed as a shooter and scorer too. Makes him doubly dangerous and impossible to guard. And TKR is a walking double-double. If he is anywhere near a rebound, he is getting it, and his short range jump hook is unstoppable.

3. As usual, Painter has stocked the roster with quality big men with Cluff and Jacobsen. They do just enough on offense, are good rebounders, and protect the paint and the rim.

4. Solid outing for JMike (9 points, 5 assists, 0 TOs), but none of the other starters were effective until Grant had a late spurt after the game was already decided. Pike tried starting Darren Buchanan over Denis Badalau, and Buchanan had his moments, but it didn't make a huge difference against the #1 team in the country.

5. Freshman update: Harun Zrno led the team in scoring again (tied with Grant with 13 points), which is the second time he's done that against top competition (Tennessee and now Purdue). The guy legitimately has a sweet stroke, so if he can just be mediocre as a defender, he can really help this team. Solid minutes from Lino Mark -- who is getting more comfortable operating the offense and is a pretty good on-ball defender -- and Kaden Powers. Powers finally hit a couple of shots, which will hopefully give him confidence moving forward. Scrappy game from Chris Nwuli, but he struggled with fouls. Badalau was completely lost and ineffective in 4 minutes.

6. I never know how much stock to place in the "plus/minus" stat, but all of our starters were between -14 and -20, and the bench players were -1 to +5. That could simply be a function of Purdue coasting after they got the big lead, but I think it's also true that we seemed to play better when the subs were in the game, including during the 10-0 kill shot in the first half, and certainly in the 2nd half after Purdue went up by +20. It bears watching if more changes to the starting lineup will be forthcoming.

7. There are no stars on this team, but rather some decent players, most of whom are young and/or inexperienced both in college basketball and in Pike's system. There's someone different nearly every night who leads the team in scoring, which can be a good thing but is more of a bad thing because it highlights the lack of top-end scorers on this team.

8. Things don't get any easier with Michigan up next in Ann Arbor. Today's KenPom has Michigan as the #1 team overall and Purdue as the #2 team overall, and Michigan has the #1 defense. Going to be difficult for us to break 50 points on Saturday, let alone 60 or more.

BUT, I'm not taking too much from these two games other than the fact that we already know we are talent deficient AND that Purdue and Michigan are two of the top teams in the country. We might not see much progress in these games just because of that, but it doesn't mean progress isn't happening behind the scenes and won't happen after Saturday. The ceiling for this team is still probably 16-15 if everything goes right, and I'm not really banking on even that. But what happened/happens in these two games are not really an indicator one way or the other.

All excellent and spot-on points. I'm glad you started off with Matt Painter as your #1 point. I have been saying for years that Painter is the best coach in the B1G and probably in the top 5 in the country. Oh, what I would give to see Rutgers run that kind of offense. And what makes it flow so much is that Braden Smith is like a top-flight QB. As he comes down the floor, he goes through his progressions, and if his first choice isn't there, he goes to his second choice, and so on. Braden Smith handles Painter's offense to perfection. Give me an offensive-minded coach first over a defensive-minded coach like Pikiell any day of the week.

Finally, as to going 16-15 (if everything goes right), I just don't see it. I have a feeling we'll be lucky to win 10-12 games this year. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[RUBlackout]

Grant needs to work on FT shooting as he could he to the line frequently as his main offense and being more aggressive. Aside from that I would like to see PnR with him specifically as he is very athletic and can dribble if needed (I don’t see him having a post game or even a 15ft jump shot so this could be key for him to produce offense)

our offense still SUCKS!! I get the strategy of trying to limit Purdue possessions to score but weaving at the top of the key without any progress towards the basket is bad coaching. It’s forced so many bad shots deep in the shot clock.

powers need to settle down and not force things—-he can be effective if he lets the game come to him

Really liking Lino as you can tell he is working hard to improve and attacks the rim which is something we need more of.

Grant needs to learn how to takeover a game on offense..still only a soph but has the ability to unlock things

 

[PhillyRU]

All excellent and spot-on points. I'm glad you started off with Matt Painter as your #1 point. I have been saying for years that Painter is the best coach in the B1G and probably in the top 5 in the country. Oh, what I would give to see Rutgers run that kind of offense. And what makes it flow so much is that Braden Smith is like a top-flight QB. As he comes down the floor, he goes through his progressions, and if his first choice isn't there, he goes to his second choice, and so on. Braden Smith handles Painter's offense to perfection. Give me an offensive-minded coach first over a defensive-minded coach like Pikiell any day of the week.

Finally, as to going 16-15 (if everything goes right), I just don't see it. I have a feeling we'll be lucky to win 10-12 games this year. I hope I'm wrong.

The remarkable thing is that, at Southern Illinois and in his early years at Purdue, he was an elite defensive coach with more mediocre offenses. There's a great article out there on him totally rehauling his offensive philosophy, similar to Dan Hurley, during a rough patch in like 2013-14, and of course, he's had elite offenses since.

 

[FAT MOON]

The remarkable thing is that, at Southern Illinois and in his early years at Purdue, he was an elite defensive coach with more mediocre offenses. There's a great article out there on him totally rehauling his offensive philosophy, similar to Dan Hurley, during a rough patch in like 2013-14, and of course, he's had elite offenses since.

I don't think it's remarkable, personally. His teams at Purdue are way more talented. Give him or Danny Hurley this RU team and they are going to look like average offensive coaches, quickly.

Having said that...he's obviously an elite coach who has a great system and has been able to recruit some of the best players in the country. He's just not a miracle worker and couldn't do what he's doing if you gave him Davis and Francis instead of Smith and Loyer.

You can coach a good athlete into being an above average defensive player. If they are a good athlete with a good IQ to boot...they can become a great defensive player. It's just much harder to do this on the offensive end. It's where you need to be able to get highly talented players and it's never been harder for a school like RU to do that with NIL and (even more importantly) free agency every year.

 

[RUBlackout]

I don't think it's remarkable, personally. His teams at Purdue are way more talented. Give him or Danny Hurley this RU team and they are going to look like average offensive coaches, quickly.

Having said that...he's obviously an elite coach who has a great system and has been able to recruit some of the best players in the country. He's just not a miracle worker and couldn't do what he's doing if you gave him Davis and Francis instead of Smith and Loyer.

You can coach a good athlete into being an above average defensive player. If they are a good athlete with a good IQ to boot...they can become a great defensive player. It's just much harder to do this on the offensive end. It's where you need to be able to get highly talented players and it's never been harder for a school like RU to do that with NIL and (even more importantly) free agency every year.

You are missing the point! He had to build these teams up and change his philosophy over time similar to Hurley in how they approached the game especially offense. While talent def matters its coaching evolution that needs to occur as well. That is a major problem with Pike as he has run the same **** offense for years and no changes to it. It is very similar to his subbing patterns.

 

[needmorecowbell]

All excellent and spot-on points. I'm glad you started off with Matt Painter as your #1 point. I have been saying for years that Painter is the best coach in the B1G and probably in the top 5 in the country. Oh, what I would give to see Rutgers run that kind of offense. And what makes it flow so much is that Braden Smith is like a top-flight QB. As he comes down the floor, he goes through his progressions, and if his first choice isn't there, he goes to his second choice, and so on. Braden Smith handles Painter's offense to perfection. Give me an offensive-minded coach first over a defensive-minded coach like Pikiell any day of the week.

Finally, as to going 16-15 (if everything goes right), I just don't see it. I have a feeling we'll be lucky to win 10-12 games this year. I hope I'm wrong.

Yes Painter is definitely a top tier coach. Any team would be lucky to have him but if you switched coaches, I’m not sure the results would be much different. Purdue has a great roster and that makes coaches look amazing.

 

[FAT MOON]

You are missing the point! He had to build these teams up and change his philosophy over time similar to Hurley in how they approached the game especially offense. While talent def matters its coaching evolution that needs to occur as well. That is a major problem with Pike as he has run the same **** offense for years and no changes to it. It is very similar to his subbing patterns.

I'm not missing anything.

You give Pike Purdue's roster our offense looks light years better. You give Painter RU's roster his offense looks way worse.

I'm not arguing that Painter or Hurley aren't better offensive coaches than Pike. I'm arguing against this idea that Pike is a horrendous offensive coach and he doesn't run anything and we don't set off ball screens and blah blah blah.

 

[PhillyRU]

I'm not missing anything.

You give Pike Purdue's roster our offense looks light years better. You give Painter RU's roster his offense looks way worse.

I'm not arguing that Painter or Hurley aren't better offensive coaches than Pike. I'm arguing against this idea that Pike is a horrendous offensive coach and he doesn't run anything and we don't set off ball screens and blah blah blah.

I don’t think the resources/access to talent at Purdue in 2010, when Painter had the No. 65 offense/No. 4 defense, was much different than in 2018, when he had the No. 2 offense/No. 31 defense.

 

[RUBlackout]

I'm not missing anything.

You give Pike Purdue's roster our offense looks light years better. You give Painter RU's roster his offense looks way worse.

I'm not arguing that Painter or Hurley aren't better offensive coaches than Pike. I'm arguing against this idea that Pike is a horrendous offensive coach and he doesn't run anything and we don't set off ball screens and blah blah blah.

I guess we don't watch the same game then.

I would bet more than half this board would agree that Purdue's offense was humming yesterday with a lot of movement and had a great flow and attack mode to it. We do not do that at all.

I think Painter and Hurley would do more with our team than currently being done as again they would change their philosophy based on what they had

 

[RUDivision]

I'm not missing anything.

You give Pike Purdue's roster our offense looks light years better. You give Painter RU's roster his offense looks way worse.

I'm not arguing that Painter or Hurley aren't better offensive coaches than Pike. I'm arguing against this idea that Pike is a horrendous offensive coach and he doesn't run anything and we don't set off ball screens and blah blah blah.

Pike is an absolute, abysmal, walking disaster on offense. He runs zero and relys on one one iso to bail him out.

if you watched the game. Regardless of talent, the sets Purdue run are on a completely different level.

Hurley sent his top assistant to Europe for 2 years to completely redesign his offense.

Pike had his standard back door alley hoop which he runs constantly 1 or 2 possession of games.

Curl screen for in bounds play.

High pick and roll

weave

Yes occasionally for shooters a variation of staggered screens.

How he didn’t run pick and roll with Ace and Dylan center of the floor with pocket shooters last year. Never drives me crazy

 

[needmorecowbell]

I guess we don't watch the same game then.

I would bet more than half this board would agree that Purdue's offense was humming yesterday with a lot of movement and had a great flow and attack mode to it. We do not do that at all.

I think Painter and Hurley would do more with our team than currently being done as again they would change their philosophy based on what they had

Having the same players in one system for 3 years is a large factor. That being said, Painter is know for his offense regardless of the numbers.

Pike has never been known to run a lot of complicated offensive sets. He’s always pushed more of a transition scoring offense and then move it to your go to guy and go 1v1. If you’re watching closely, the offense has actually moved the ball quite nicely this year and is getting guys good shots (except vs CC). They just don’t have enough high level finishers.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Pike is an absolute, abysmal, walking disaster on offense. He runs zero and relys on one one iso to bail him out.

if you watched the game. Regardless of talent, the sets Purdue run are on a completely different level.

Hurley sent his top assistant to Europe for 2 years to completely redesign his offense.

Pike had his standard back door alley hoop which he runs constantly 1 or 2 possession of games.

Curl screen for in bounds play.

High pick and roll

weave

Yes occasionally for shooters a variation of staggered screens.

How he didn’t run pick and roll with Ace and Dylan center of the floor with pocket shooters last year. Never drives me crazy

I agree on last year. I was begging for Ace and Dylan to run some high pick and roll actions. It never happened.

Regarding this year, I do see the ball moving much better but this team has been together since the summer. It’s just not ever going to look like Purdue with that much turnover. The honest answer is Painter elite on offense. Not many guys can do what he does. Pike is a different coach. Focus on defense, run offense that’s not too complicated and built to score in transition.

 

[RUDiddy777]

Just here to agree that Purdue’s offense is so clinical and really enjoyable to watch. Purposeful motion & crisp, constant ball movement. Really impressive.

Painter took it easy on Pike in the second half. Could have been a 30+ point differential if he wanted it to be.

Agreed. He’s a class act. Love that guy.

 

[RUDiddy777]

Your #1 and #2 are dead on but Smith on the court make Purdue 10 points better. The minute he comes out they are great. If Smith is hitting threes forget about it . What hurt inthe first half was Harris who hardly scores hit 3 threes and had 11points and we were down by 13 at half. All because Smith found him wide open.
Renn could have trouble against size. A bigger frontline will be more challenging.
Your#4 with. The lineup change and Buchanan and Nwuili hopefully become starters for Badalau. And Francis. They bring better defense , potentially better rebounding and potentially better offense and getting to the line.
Your# 6 and Zrno andPowers Ihave been clamoring for, especially Zrno. His 3 point stroke will keep us in games and his defense is no worse than Francis. Pike did a good job of setting up the sideline screens to free him up . It would be great if we can consistently get him 8 open looks per game or looks coming off screens.
Powers more erratic. Seems to force his shot instead of letting game .come to him .He hit1 three but he missed2 wide open ones when we got a rare offensive rebound and second chance point look.Thestaffthinks he can shoot but he has not been efficient. Hopefully his shooting comes around.
Your #7 needs a nuanced response . Dylan is our best player , our best shooter and best scoring option.Pike has to prioritize that he is and put him spots to succeed . He cannot be on the bench for 7-10 minutes. He uncharacteristically missed 2 layups early but Pike did nothing to set him up after that. Buchanan has offensive ability and running high pick and role with manny or with Dylan with shooters ready for the 3 point lockout needs to happen..
Overall, Pikehas to stop subbing like there is a participation trophy .His sub of Fall cost a 6 point swing

Honestly, I’d rather see Fall get more minutes against Purdue or Michigan than CCSU where his limited minutes resulted in a bad loss. Even as an optimist, I’ve written these ones off. And it’s not saying much, but I thought Fall looked better against Purdue than he did against CCSU.

 

[RUDiddy777]

All excellent and spot-on points. I'm glad you started off with Matt Painter as your #1 point. I have been saying for years that Painter is the best coach in the B1G and probably in the top 5 in the country. Oh, what I would give to see Rutgers run that kind of offense. And what makes it flow so much is that Braden Smith is like a top-flight QB. As he comes down the floor, he goes through his progressions, and if his first choice isn't there, he goes to his second choice, and so on. Braden Smith handles Painter's offense to perfection. Give me an offensive-minded coach first over a defensive-minded coach like Pikiell any day of the week.

Finally, as to going 16-15 (if everything goes right), I just don't see it. I have a feeling we'll be lucky to win 10-12 games this year. I hope I'm wrong.

That no look bounce pass into the paint was a thing of beauty. IIRC, he cooked Dylan last year too.

 

[RUDiddy777]

You are missing the point! He had to build these teams up and change his philosophy over time similar to Hurley in how they approached the game especially offense. While talent def matters its coaching evolution that needs to occur as well. That is a major problem with Pike as he has run the same **** offense for years and no changes to it. It is very similar to his subbing patterns.

I do think it’s time to shake up the staff a little bit - and perhaps something he should have done before the season. Respect the loyalty, but some new ideas and thinking might be beneficial.

 

[RUBlackout]

I do think it’s time to shake up the staff a little bit - and perhaps something he should have done before the season. Respect the loyalty, but some new ideas and thinking might be beneficial.

That all it really is and what the Painter/Hurley comments were about. They changed their philosophy around and it helped them. That is all I’m asking for in terms of Pike and funny enough even a guy like Schiano. Just two good guys who are very stubborn to run what they know over and over again trying to prove it will work one day. Complete definition of insanity.
now I know we don’t have the financial resources of many schools but this should be a clear indication that you are going to have to do something completely different if you expect to compete and win.
While I do agree with @needmorecowbell that this year we are passing the ball around more, I also think it’s meant to end up in an ISO play as the end result. Thing is all Tha ball movement has not free up that individual anymore than if they were standing at the top of the key with the ball in their hand to start to play. Movement without action. Again just needs change bc I actually think we have a better group of players this year that act as a team rather than last year. We happened to have two studs but there was no team.

 

[FAT MOON]

I don’t think the resources/access to talent at Purdue in 2010, when Painter had the No. 65 offense/No. 4 defense, was much different than in 2018, when he had the No. 2 offense/No. 31 defense.

both of those are great teams though and the difference has way more to with the specific personal of each than painter just deciding he was gonna give up D for O.

 

[FAT MOON]

I guess we don't watch the same game then.

I would bet more than half this board would agree that Purdue's offense was humming yesterday with a lot of movement and had a great flow and attack mode to it. We do not do that at all.

I think Painter and Hurley would do more with our team than currently being done as again they would change their philosophy based on what they had

If you argument is gonna center on how the majority of the board feels about an issue that means nothing to me because the majority of this board has also never coached or even played at any sort of level and really has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[RUChet]

Lino is our best passer - he just needs to get it together but kid can pass. He at 2 very sweet passes in the game and finally finished at the rim! I don’t know if he can shoot but I think otherwise he’s going to get better and better. Same with Nwuli- he’s starting to show some talent.

 

[richthedentist]

1. Matt Painter is the best coach in the Big Ten hands down, and he has the best player in the conference with Braden Smith. Purdue's offensive sets are just elite, and Smith operates the offense like the engine of a well-oiled machine. You watch that offense and you just see players moving constantly with purpose, and then Smith knows exactly where to locate the open shooters. It's really a thing of beauty to watch. We were always a step or two behind where they were going.

2. Smith and Trey Kaufman-Renn are a deadly one-two punch. Smith will end up the leading assist man in NCAA history when all is said and done, but he has really developed as a shooter and scorer too. Makes him doubly dangerous and impossible to guard. And TKR is a walking double-double. If he is anywhere near a rebound, he is getting it, and his short range jump hook is unstoppable.

3. As usual, Painter has stocked the roster with quality big men with Cluff and Jacobsen. They do just enough on offense, are good rebounders, and protect the paint and the rim.

4. Solid outing for JMike (9 points, 5 assists, 0 TOs), but none of the other starters were effective until Grant had a late spurt after the game was already decided. Pike tried starting Darren Buchanan over Denis Badalau, and Buchanan had his moments, but it didn't make a huge difference against the #1 team in the country.

5. Freshman update: Harun Zrno led the team in scoring again (tied with Grant with 13 points), which is the second time he's done that against top competition (Tennessee and now Purdue). The guy legitimately has a sweet stroke, so if he can just be mediocre as a defender, he can really help this team. Solid minutes from Lino Mark -- who is getting more comfortable operating the offense and is a pretty good on-ball defender -- and Kaden Powers. Powers finally hit a couple of shots, which will hopefully give him confidence moving forward. Scrappy game from Chris Nwuli, but he struggled with fouls. Badalau was completely lost and ineffective in 4 minutes.

6. I never know how much stock to place in the "plus/minus" stat, but all of our starters were between -14 and -20, and the bench players were -1 to +5. That could simply be a function of Purdue coasting after they got the big lead, but I think it's also true that we seemed to play better when the subs were in the game, including during the 10-0 kill shot in the first half, and certainly in the 2nd half after Purdue went up by +20. It bears watching if more changes to the starting lineup will be forthcoming.

7. There are no stars on this team, but rather some decent players, most of whom are young and/or inexperienced both in college basketball and in Pike's system. There's someone different nearly every night who leads the team in scoring, which can be a good thing but is more of a bad thing because it highlights the lack of top-end scorers on this team.

8. Things don't get any easier with Michigan up next in Ann Arbor. Today's KenPom has Michigan as the #1 team overall and Purdue as the #2 team overall, and Michigan has the #1 defense. Going to be difficult for us to break 50 points on Saturday, let alone 60 or more.

BUT, I'm not taking too much from these two games other than the fact that we already know we are talent deficient AND that Purdue and Michigan are two of the top teams in the country. We might not see much progress in these games just because of that, but it doesn't mean progress isn't happening behind the scenes and won't happen after Saturday. The ceiling for this team is still probably 16-15 if everything goes right, and I'm not really banking on even that. But what happened/happens in these two games are not really an indicator one way or the other.

Degaz what is your feeling on playing Dortch more over Ogbole as Ogbole is just so lost on defense which is the pick and roll he had to get burned 6-7 times and he just has no clue how to hedge and then he forces the defense to rotate and if they don't get the pick and roll hoop they then pass it out to the wide open man for a 3 pointer

 

[Mholinko]

If you argument is gonna center on how the majority of the board feels about an issue that means nothing to me because the majority of this board has also never coached or even played at any sort of level and really has no idea what they are talking about.

If that’s the case then we should be honing in on the issue that either Pike does not have a great eye for talent or the issue that’s beaten into the ground that Rutgers foundationally isn’t equipped to be as competitive as we all want to be

it’s critical this off season for football and basketball that the administration of the university, athletic director, coaches and external support get on the same page about what are the goals, what’s realistic and having an actual plan of how to maximize it

it has felt to me like athletics is shooting from the hip trying to navigate this environment and there are clear examples of programs succeeding to varying degrees based on their specific circumstances

 

[FAT MOON]

If that’s the case then we should be honing in on the issue that either Pike does not have a great eye for talent or the issue that’s beaten into the ground that Rutgers foundationally isn’t equipped to be as competitive as we all want to be

To me it is clearly that latter but I know plenty disagree.

I just don't think a national coach of the year who can turn a program from a laughingstock into a tourney worthy team for four years has now forgotten how to coach or recruit.

You want to argue he's not equipped for the new NIL/free transfer world you can...the results clearly speak to that. But I would argue that there aren't really any coaches that are. Maaaaaaaaybe for a year if they get a group where the whole plays well above the sum of its parts but continued success...good luck.

 

[richthedentist]

If that’s the case then we should be honing in on the issue that either Pike does not have a great eye for talent or the issue that’s beaten into the ground that Rutgers foundationally isn’t equipped to be as competitive as we all want to be

it’s critical this off season for football and basketball that the administration of the university, athletic director, coaches and external support get on the same page about what are the goals, what’s realistic and having an actual plan of how to maximize it

it has felt to me like athletics is shooting from the hip trying to navigate this environment and there are clear examples of programs succeeding to varying degrees based on their specific circumstances

That is because there was no guidance at the top of the athletic department; This new administration including the president of our university have a clear cut plan and I know for a fact they are working double and triple time to increase fund raising and putting the proper goals in place and for the first time in forever and I mean forever I feel confident that we have the right person/persons running the athletic department who actually know what they are doing

 

[seansherm]

Degaz what is your feeling on playing Dortch more over Ogbole as Ogbole is just so lost on defense which is the pick and roll he had to get burned 6-7 times and he just has no clue how to hedge and then he forces the defense to rotate and if they don't get the pick and roll hoop they then pass it out to the wide open man for a 3 pointer

I'd more consider Dortch next to Ogbole in the front court. First, Ogbole isn't terrible on defense, he does struggle on the perimeter, and when he is dragged out there, there is no above avg defender help behind. He's, by far, our best rebounder and shot blocker.

 

[bac2therac]

If that’s the case then we should be honing in on the issue that either Pike does not have a great eye for talent or the issue that’s beaten into the ground that Rutgers foundationally isn’t equipped to be as competitive as we all want to be

it’s critical this off season for football and basketball that the administration of the university, athletic director, coaches and external support get on the same page about what are the goals, what’s realistic and having an actual plan of how to maximize it

it has felt to me like athletics is shooting from the hip trying to navigate this environment and there are clear examples of programs succeeding to varying degrees based on their specific circumstances

its both and that is a fatal equation..we can fix the 2nd somewhat but not the first

 

[bac2therac]

There is a difference between a “ceiling if everything goes right” and what reasonably can be expected to happen. I even said I don’t think we will hit the 16-15 ceiling, but I truly believe that if everything goes right with this team, we could achieve 16-15. But when does everything go right anywhere, let alone at Rutgers?

I think we are probably in a range of 9-15 wins at this point with 12 seeming the most likely

 

[RUDiddy777]

I guess we don't watch the same game then.

I would bet more than half this board would agree that Purdue's offense was humming yesterday with a lot of movement and had a great flow and attack mode to it. We do not do that at all.

I think Painter and Hurley would do more with our team than currently being done as again they would change their philosophy based on what they had

It was beautiful to watch. In fairness, those two are among the very best in the profession - love Painter almost as much as I love Pike - it’s controversial, but I’m a big fan of Hurley (but totally get why he’s hated - an acquired taste most haven’t acquired).

 

[RUDiddy777]

If that’s the case then we should be honing in on the issue that either Pike does not have a great eye for talent or the issue that’s beaten into the ground that Rutgers foundationally isn’t equipped to be as competitive as we all want to be

it’s critical this off season for football and basketball that the administration of the university, athletic director, coaches and external support get on the same page about what are the goals, what’s realistic and having an actual plan of how to maximize it

it has felt to me like athletics is shooting from the hip trying to navigate this environment and there are clear examples of programs succeeding to varying degrees based on their specific circumstances

Really good stuff here. Agreed.