Cussed and Discussed . . .

[D. Denzil Finney]

The events leading up to and including the election have been cussed and discussed ad nauseum. Let't try something different. Two items that go hand in hand and may be as crucial to our Country as the election of our Commander in Chief: (1) Congressional Term Limits and, (2) Lobbyists.


Should we have Term Limits?

What should be done to control lobbyists from buying favors?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

The events leading up to and including the election have been cussed and discussed ad nauseum. Let't try something different. Two items that go hand in hand and may be as crucial to our Country as the election of our Commander in Chief: (1) Congressional Term Limits and, (2) Lobbyists.


Should we have Term Limits?

What should be done to control lobbyists from buying favors?

Would love for Term Limits to be put in place for Congress. I understand we have a process to impose them currently by voting. I also think this would impact the lobbyist efforts as well.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Congressional term limits are a MUST! Also, removing lobbyists from the political process would be great as well. People ***** about the power of unions (and I know they lobby, too), but it's the lobbyists in DC that are the major problem.

 

[WVPATX]

Congressional term limits are a MUST! Also, removing lobbyists from the political process would be great as well. People ***** about the power of unions (and I know they lobby, too), but it's the lobbyists in DC that are the major problem.

Term limits for sure. Lobbyists are a first amendment issue. How can you stop a group of people from petitioning their government. I realize lobbying is a four letter word, but, just like burning the flag, we may not like it, but it is protected by our Constitution.

 

[WVUBRU]

Term limits for sure. Lobbyists are a first amendment issue. How can you stop a group of people from petitioning their government. I realize lobbying is a four letter word, but, just like burning the flag, we may not like it, but it is protected by our Constitution.

Your comments on lobbyists is dead on. This board has discussed term limits too many times. I'm in the far minority of appreciating experience and do not favor term limits for congress. Let each be responsible to their constituents. Nothing more from me on the subject.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Prohibit members of Congress from receiving any money/gifts whatsoever other than their $240,000 per year (or whatever it is) salary.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Term limits for sure. Lobbyists are a first amendment issue. How can you stop a group of people from petitioning their government. I realize lobbying is a four letter word, but, just like burning the flag, we may not like it, but it is protected by our Constitution.

You mean like how you all are bitching about a group who are wanting to change the electoral system, etc.?

I'm pretty sure lobbying can be stopped, or at least challenged. Leave it up to the Supreme Court to decide. Trump doesn't seem like a guy who cares much about challenging issues.....

 

[MountaineerWV]

Your comments on lobbyists is dead on. This board has discussed term limits too many times. I'm in the far minority of appreciating experience and do not favor term limits for congress. Let each be responsible to their constituents. Nothing more from me on the subject.

The Founding Fathers did not foresee a Congress position being a "career". Nor did they see this for president, and that's why they didn't have a term limit for that as well. But that changed after FDR was elected to a 4th term.....so why not Congress? I think 18 years would be long enough for Representatives and Senators (9 terms for House; 3 for Senate).

 

[WVPATX]

You mean like how you all are bitching about a group who are wanting to change the electoral system, etc.?

I'm pretty sure lobbying can be stopped, or at least challenged. Leave it up to the Supreme Court to decide. Trump doesn't seem like a guy who cares much about challenging issues.....

Who are you going to sue? A left wing group? A right wing group? Who is going to sue? Who has standing to sue? This is clearly a First Amendment issue and wouldn't likely even make it to court or if it did, be rejected almost immediately.

 

[WVPATX]

Prohibit members of Congress from receiving any money/gifts whatsoever other than their $240,000 per year (or whatever it is) salary.

The President and First Lady receive far more gifts than Senators or Congressmen. And far more valuable.

But I understand your motivation. I would support the banning of all gifts, including the President's. Those gifts belong to the people.

 

[MountaineerWV]

The President and First Lady receive far more gifts than Senators or Congressmen. And far more valuable.

But I understand your motivation. I would support the banning of all gifts, including the President's. Those gifts belong to the people.

But they don't make the laws.......Congress does.

 

[WVPATX]

But they don't make the laws.......Congress does.

No, but the President enforces the laws. And as we have seen, some law are enforced and others ignored. Sanctuary cities anyone? Also, with Executive Orders, the President essentially does create law.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

The President and First Lady receive far more gifts than Senators or Congressmen. And far more valuable.

Is that your opinion or do you have some data to back that statement up? There are 435 Members of the House of Represenatives and 50 Senators.

 

[eerdoc]

Congressional term limits are a MUST! Also, removing lobbyists from the political process would be great as well. People ***** about the power of unions (and I know they lobby, too), but it's the lobbyists in DC that are the major problem.

Has not Trump publicly advocated for some of what you are recommending? Support his effort to clean up the 'norm', especially the lobbying by former cabinet.

 

[WVUBRU]

The Founding Fathers did not foresee a Congress position being a "career". Nor did they see this for president, and that's why they didn't have a term limit for that as well. But that changed after FDR was elected to a 4th term.....so why not Congress? I think 18 years would be long enough for Representatives and Senators (9 terms for House; 3 for Senate).

I agree the founding fathers did not consider it properly but they did think about the Presidency not being a king and that was addressed with FDR. I gave my reason for my position in my previous post it has to do with valuing experience in the legislative branch. Disagree if you wish but at least read and understand the position and not ask again.

 

[Popeer]

The Founding Fathers did not foresee a Congress position being a "career". Nor did they see this for president, and that's why they didn't have a term limit for that as well. But that changed after FDR was elected to a 4th term.....so why not Congress? I think 18 years would be long enough for Representatives and Senators (9 terms for House; 3 for Senate).

The presidential term limit was passed by a GOP majority Congress as a desperation measure because FDR had kicked their candidates' asses four straight times. Former Chief Justice Warren Burger called it the worst amendment ever added to the Constitution, and he was no flaming liberal. If there had been no term limits, I figure Ronald Reagan might easily have won at least one more term, and so would Bill Clinton.

And once again, the only way to impose term limits on Congress would be to get 2/3 of the state legislatures to agree to an amendment -- the entrenched politicians in Congress aren't going to vote to derail their gravy train, and the people of the states apparently are too dumb to exercise the power to vote them out after one or two terms because, just like people who have insurance under ACA don't think Trump's repeal would apply to them, people in the provinces think term limits should only apply to someone else's Senators and Representatives and not their own.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

The presidential term limit was passed by a GOP majority Congress as a desperation measure because FDR had kicked their candidates' asses four straight times. Former Chief Justice Warren Burger called it the worst amendment ever added to the Constitution, and he was no flaming liberal. If there had been no term limits, I figure Ronald Reagan might easily have won at least one more term, and so would Bill Clinton.

And once again, the only way to impose term limits on Congress would be to get 2/3 of the state legislatures to agree to an amendment -- the entrenched politicians in Congress aren't going to vote to derail their gravy train, and the people of the states apparently are too dumb to exercise the power to vote them out after one or two terms because, just like people who have insurance under ACA don't think Trump's repeal would apply to them, people in the provinces think term limits should only apply to someone else's Senators and Representatives and not their own.

Well, that's not true. Haven't you been following the Convention of States thread? There are other ways.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Should we have Term Limits?

What should be done to control lobbyists from buying favors?

I'm torn on term limits. On the one hand I think we need them, but on the other hand we have elections every 2 years, so if people wanted them out they'd vote them out. But then at the same time we have a congress with something like a 20% approval rating, but then a 95% re-election rate. Maybe we need some protection from ourselves.

To that end, and this may not be popular and it would never pass, but I think you should have to pass a test to get your voter's registration card. Nothing too hard, but just some kind of basic understanding of our government structure and how it works. There's an alarmingly high percentage of people that can't name the 3 branches of government and their vote counts just as much as the hyper informed.

I agree with others that said that if you take care of the term limits you will effect the lobbyists ... but only to a degree. It may pump even MORE money into our process because the lobbyists haven't built up the relationship and aggregation of benefits they've paid to the same person/people for years. Somehow, we need to get the money out. I don't have an issue with the idea of lobbyists, but do have a problem with the current application of lobbying.

 

[WVPATX]

Obama garnered nearly $700K in his first four years.

Congressional gifts are far more regulated:

https://www.citizen.org/documents/Gift-Rules-for-Congress.pdf

I am saying ban ALL gifts. Both to the Executive Branch and to Congress.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

Obama garnered nearly $700K in his first four years.

Congressional gifts are far more regulated:

https://www.citizen.org/documents/Gift-Rules-for-Congress.pdf

I am saying ban ALL gifts. Both to the Executive Branch and to Congress.

I agree with that with that if you include the amounts that Lobbyists are allowed to give to individual Presidential/Congressional election campaigns.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Somehow, we need to get the money out.

This^^^.

 

[WVPATX]

I agree with that with that if you include the amounts that Lobbyists are allowed to give to individual Presidential/Congressional election campaigns.

To forbid lobbyists from petitioning the government is a clear violation of the First Amendment. That would never pass constitutional muster.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

To forbid lobbyists from petitioning the government is a clear violation of the First Amendment. That would never pass constitutional muster.

Maybe you should go back and read the 2nd exception listed in your link concerning gifts.

 

[WVPATX]

Maybe you should go back and read the 2nd exception listed in your link concerning gifts.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I would certainly ban gifts from lobbyists. But the act of lobbying and corresponding campaign contributions are first amendment issues. Like it or not, the Constitution guarantees the right of the people to assemble and to petition the government including the right to make campaign contributions consistent with that petition.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I would certainly ban gifts from lobbyists. But the act of lobbying and corresponding campaign contributions are first amendment issues. Like it or not, the Constitution guarantees the right of the people to assemble and to petition the government including the right to make campaign contributions consistent with that petition.

Remember that when you blast the BLM folks, the "recount" folks, gay rights folks, labor union people, etc.........

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. I would certainly ban gifts from lobbyists. But the act of lobbying and corresponding campaign contributions are first amendment issues. Like it or not, the Constitution guarantees the right of the people to assemble and to petition the government including the right to make campaign contributions consistent with that petition.

I believe that lobbyists use their funds to get what is good for whom they work. Big Money determines much of our electoral process and outcome.

 

[wvu2007]

Remember that when you blast the BLM folks, the "recount" folks, gay rights folks, labor union people, etc.........

Gayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Remember that when you blast the BLM folks, the "recount" folks, gay rights folks, labor union people, etc.........

Good lord. No one is saying they don't have the right. Hell, I'm upset he was elected as well. I'm just having trouble figuring out which protests are real and which ones are paid for by Soros.