Cruz's tax plan, thoughts?

[DvlDog4WVU]

on the surface it sounds good. Haven't really looked into, just heard the highlights. Spare me the mouth breather reaction about the "abolishing the IRS" response.

I like no one is taxed on first $36k.

15% business tax

Federal sales tax (similar to consumption tax?)

What do you see as positives and negatives?

 

[Mntneer]

on the surface it sounds good. Haven't really looked into, just heard the highlights. Spare me the mouth breather reaction about the "abolishing the IRS" response.

I like no one is taxed on first $36k.

15% business tax

Federal sales tax (similar to consumption tax?)

What do you see as positives and negatives?

My fear with a federal sales tax is that 1) impact on consumer spending and 2) impact on budget during slow spending years.

 

[WVUBRU]

My fear with a federal sales tax is that 1) impact on consumer spending and 2) impact on budget during slow spending years.

Those are two of many reasons to be concerned.

Want opinion on the plan? It is unworkable, bad for the country and only designed to get the support from those that do not understand just like every other "Fair Tax plan " out there.
The country became the powerhouse it is partly because of the progressive tax structure that is the income tax.
This opinion is not new but those with an agenda will continue to dismiss it.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

on the surface it sounds good. Haven't really looked into, just heard the highlights. Spare me the mouth breather reaction about the "abolishing the IRS" response.

I like no one is taxed on first $36k.

15% business tax

Federal sales tax (similar to consumption tax?)

What do you see as positives and negatives?

Other than simplicity, I don't see any pros. If I was making a few mil a year I would probably change my mind.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Other than simplicity, I don't see any pros. If I was making a few mil a year I would probably change my mind.

Are you an accountant? I think I read that or gleaned it from your posts.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

My fear with a federal sales tax is that 1) impact on consumer spending and 2) impact on budget during slow spending years.

I honestly don't think it would have that big of an impact on consumer spending. Biggest reason behind that thought is just the nature of people these days. Very few (percentage wise) live a frugal lifestyle. I really don't see that changing. Our society has become very materialistic.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Are you an accountant? I think I read that or gleaned it from your posts.

Yeah.

 

[mule_eer]

on the surface it sounds good. Haven't really looked into, just heard the highlights. Spare me the mouth breather reaction about the "abolishing the IRS" response.

I like no one is taxed on first $36k.

15% business tax

Federal sales tax (similar to consumption tax?)

What do you see as positives and negatives?

What's the rate on the federal sales tax? It would have to be around 20% for this to have a prayer of working. Where are the budget cuts that are going to allow him to balance the budget?

 

[WhiteTailEER]

on the surface it sounds good. Haven't really looked into, just heard the highlights. Spare me the mouth breather reaction about the "abolishing the IRS" response.

I like no one is taxed on first $36k.

15% business tax

Federal sales tax (similar to consumption tax?)

What do you see as positives and negatives?

I'll have to look up the rest of it.

No taxes on first $36k I have no issue with, I don't think, but would have to consider more fully. What are the rates for the rest?

I don't think I have an issue with the 15% business tax, but I'd like to see some kind of minimum threshold met before that kicks in, or a graduated scale to encourage more small business generation.

I don't like the federal sales tax. Sales taxes tend to be disproportionately large for lower income families ... but maybe that's why the $36k was chosen?

 

[WVUBRU]

The one question that is always in my mind when I hear these "plans" is who do these people think will administer and enforce the federal tax policy if the irs is abolished? Why even bother reading any plan if that is one of the first ideas. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[mneilmont]

My fear with a federal sales tax is that 1) impact on consumer spending and 2) impact on budget during slow spending years.

Agree, and would add one note. The sales tax just becomes another source of money for the government to spend. I do not think the government spends my money as wisely as do I.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

The one question that is always in my mind when I hear these "plans" is who do these people think will administer and enforce the federal tax policy if the irs is abolished? Why even bother reading any plan if that is one of the first ideas. Absolutely ridiculous.

Here is a thought. Maybe, just maybe, its rhetoric to help sale the plan. You will still need the IRS but on a largely reduced scale. You could cut 10% of the Federal work force, start making the remaining employees contribute like private business and you wouldn't miss a beat. Hell, you could likely cut 20% and still be ok.

 

[WVUBRU]

Here is a thought. Maybe, just maybe, its rhetoric to help sale the plan. You will still need the IRS but on a largely reduced scale. You could cut 10% of the Federal work force, start making the remaining employees contribute like private business and you wouldn't miss a beat. Hell, you could likely cut 20% and still be ok.

False. If anything, the irs needs more funding at the present. Ask anyone that deals with them on a daily basis.

Any politician that gives an outright lie in order to sell a plan, they should be taken to task. I don't have a problem with politicians that express their wishes, but this irs abolishing crap is foolishness and dishonest and these nuts know it

 

[WVUCOOPER]

False. If anything, the irs needs more funding at the present. Ask anyone that deals with them on a daily basis.

Totally true. The computers just spit out notices and then it takes 6 months to get a reply back and usually that reply is a letter stating they need more time. Clients love, love, love IRS issues hanging over their heads. And don't even get me started on all the fraudulent tax returns being filed robbing the American taxpayers blind. If we need to cut federal jobs, start somewhere else.

 

[Popeer]

It's all a bunch of hot air, based on nothing more than Cruz's pandering to his base. Where does he get the figures for "4,861,000 jobs created"? By what math does he conclude that "many Americans pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes" when the payroll tax is capped at 6.2 percent? Businesses aren't moving jobs overseas only to avoid taxes although that is one motivating factor, they're mostly moving overseas to avoid paying the higher wages that Cruz claims his tax plan would jump-start. As for the so-called "death tax" that the wealthy love to whinge about? It only affects the very wealthy: did you know that your estate has to be worth more than $10.6 million on your death in order for your heirs to pay any tax on it? How many on here will fall into that category? Obamacare? He wants to get rid of any subsidized health insurance and hand it back over to the "free market," as if the old "free market" really was "patient centered" as he claims.

Read all about it in his own words, here, and then see what you think about it: https://www.tedcruz.org/tax_plan/

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Read all about it in his own words, here, and then see what you think about it: https://www.tedcruz.org/tax_plan/

I read it and came away with basically the same questions you did. He makes a lot of grandiose claims regarding what this will do without really saying how it will do it.

For all of the blustering about Obamacare and all of it's shortcomings (and there are many), the whole rationale behind going to it was because of how out of control the old system was getting.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

By what math does he conclude that "many Americans pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes" when the payroll tax is capped at 6.2 percent? /

I'm pretty sure in 2014 (maybe it was 13?) the IRS projected that up to 45% of US Taxpayers would had a net effective income tax of less than 1%. That would fall below the 7.65% payroll tax

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

start making the remaining employees contribute like private business

Please explain what you mean. Make federal employees contribute like private business...

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Please explain what you mean. Make federal employees contribute like private business...

Earn their paycheck?

Actually work 40+ hours and still only get paid for 40. Hell, at this point, I would settle for seeing them work 30 hrs in a week without the other 10 hours going to the gym, 2 hour lunches, reading the newspaper in their offices. Or, I don't know, something crazy like actually be able to fired for performance related issues. Basically exactly why Industry is cheaper and more efficient than Gov't. All of those reasons.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Earn their paycheck?

Actually work 40+ hours and still only get paid for 40. Hell, at this point, I would settle for seeing them work 30 hrs in a week without the other 10 hours going to the gym, 2 hour lunches, reading the newspaper in their offices. Or, I don't know, something crazy like actually be able to fired for performance related issues. Basically exactly why Industry is cheaper and more efficient than Gov't. All of those reasons.

That's what I thought. You and Airport are two peas in a pod with your government sucks attitude. I really can't stand ******** like that.

 

[bamaEER]

Earn their paycheck?

Actually work 40+ hours and still only get paid for 40. Hell, at this point, I would settle for seeing them work 30 hrs in a week without the other 10 hours going to the gym, 2 hour lunches, reading the newspaper in their offices. Or, I don't know, something crazy like actually be able to fired for performance related issues. Basically exactly why Industry is cheaper and more efficient than Gov't. All of those reasons.

Wow...generalize much?

 

[mneilmont]

Earn their paycheck?

Actually work 40+ hours and still only get paid for 40. Hell, at this point, I would settle for seeing them work 30 hrs in a week without the other 10 hours going to the gym, 2 hour lunches, reading the newspaper in their offices. Or, I don't know, something crazy like actually be able to fired for performance related issues. Basically exactly why Industry is cheaper and more efficient than Gov't. All of those reasons.

Gee, Dog. Do you think it may take them 8 hours to do 2 hours of productive work? But, I guess somebody has to do it. I would probably elect to starve to death before I would prepare or audit tax returns. Did it for a while, but ain't my bag.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Wow...generalize much?

Not really. I have many friends who work in Gov't. They all tell the same story. Early on when starting out I thought about going over to that side and everyone of them told me not to do it that it sucks away your soul, creativity, and initiative. I have to believe if 100% of my friends and a large percentage of people I know in and around the beltway all tell the same story that it likely equates to about 10-20% if you extrapolate it.

I've literally had guys working 100 hr weeks only to turn around and have their Gov't counterpart stop mid-sentence in a meeting and say: "guys, have to cancel the rest of this, I'm at my 40. Let me know what you come up with over the weekend when we meet again on Monday."

 

[dolemitebmf]

Not really. I have many friends who work in Gov't. They all tell the same story. Early on when starting out I thought about going over to that side and everyone of them told me not to do it that it sucks away your soul, creativity, and initiative. I have to believe if 100% of my friends and a large percentage of people I know in and around the beltway all tell the same story that it likely equates to about 10-20% if you extrapolate it.

I've literally had guys working 100 hr weeks only to turn around and have their Gov't counterpart stop mid-sentence in a meeting and say: "guys, have to cancel the rest of this, I'm at my 40. Let me know what you come up with over the weekend when we meet again on Monday."

Wow! If people are having to work 100 hour weeks there must be some really awful management...

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Wow! If people are having to work 100 hour weeks there must be some really awful management...

I completely agree. Good thing we fired the incompetent *** that allowed his Gov't counterpart to put us in a position where we had to do that to make schedule.

 

[dolemitebmf]

I completely agree. Good thing we fired the incompetent *** that allowed his Gov't counterpart to put us in a position where we had to do that to make schedule.

Glad to hear the problem was fixed. Unfortunately, that is rare to see nowadays. I have had to work a few 16-18 hour days recently, which is fine, but when it becomes the norm and not the exception, the root cause is normally a management issue. Hell, 100 hour weeks is downright abusive...

 

[bamaEER]

Not really. I have many friends who work in Gov't. They all tell the same story. Early on when starting out I thought about going over to that side and everyone of them told me not to do it that it sucks away your soul, creativity, and initiative. I have to believe if 100% of my friends and a large percentage of people I know in and around the beltway all tell the same story that it likely equates to about 10-20% if you extrapolate it.

I've literally had guys working 100 hr weeks only to turn around and have their Gov't counterpart stop mid-sentence in a meeting and say: "guys, have to cancel the rest of this, I'm at my 40. Let me know what you come up with over the weekend when we meet again on Monday."

Pretty broadbrush painting right there. Yeah, there are certainly govt jobs out there like that--people clocking in and doing some mindless task and clocking out 8 hrs later. I have a state govt. job and may have a 40hr week during some months in the winter, but for 36+ weeks of the year are long days (today is prob 11 with 8 hrs on the road). In fact the reason I can't go to more FB games is the weekend hrs required for my job. I love what I do, and work in conjunction with fed govt counterparts (USFWS, USDA, and USGS) who work in a similar fashion.

Not all govt jobs are like the DMV.

 

[dolemitebmf]

Pretty broadbrush painting right there. Yeah, there are certainly govt jobs out there like that--people clocking in and doing some mindless task and clocking out 8 hrs later. I have a state govt. job and may have a 40hr week during some months in the winter, but for 36+ weeks of the year are long days (today is prob 11 with 8 hrs on the road). In fact the reason I can't go to more FB games is the weekend hrs required for my job. I love what I do, and work in conjunction with fed govt counterparts (USFWS, USDA, and USGS) who work in a similar fashion.

Not all govt jobs are like the DMV.

I have worked both with the government and outside the government, throughout my career. I have worked with extremely talented, hard working government people and extremely talented, hard working private sector people. I think that the content of one's character goes a lot further to determining that than whose name is on your paycheck...

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I've literally had guys working 100 hr weeks only to turn around and have their Gov't counterpart stop mid-sentence in a meeting and say: "guys, have to cancel the rest of this, I'm at my 40. Let me know what you come up with over the weekend when we meet again on Monday."

I did work as a government civilian for about 3 years. It wasn't like that at all where I was. I frequently worked over 40 hours a week, and so did just about all of the others.

I'm not saying that to discredit your statement, as I have no doubt that there are those that do that. However, that hasn't been my experience.

I suppose it depends on the position. As an engineer, I/we were focused on getting things done on schedule because pilots were counting on us to be done. We weren't focused on the hours. I generally got in at 6am, left at 6pm ... although I did usually take close to 2 hours for lunch to go to the gym and workout.

When we were doing integrations, sometimes the schedule would dictate that I be there from midnight to 4am (because everybody can't integrate at the same time) but then be back in at 9am for pilot sessions and work until around 5 or 6, and then back in for another integration session from 2am-6am or something. Of course, that certainly wasn't the norm, just during heavy integration periods.

 

[mneilmont]

Damn, have none of you people worked for yourself? To survive, you do what you have to do. 40 hour days are not unheard of. 24 hour days become rather common at the beginning. Any time something is broken, you stay there until you get it fixed if you have a production shift coming on the next day unless you want them to stand and do nothing. And, they are normally pissed the rest of the day if they have to delay at the start of a shift.

I have worked at city and county government both, and they were different.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

40 hour days are not unheard of. 24 hour days become rather common at the beginning.

For you, I don't doubt it at all.

I think neil is the male version of the female character that Cloris Leachman plays on "Raising Hope".

 

[Airport]

Damn, have none of you people worked for yourself? To survive, you do what you have to do. 40 hour days are not unheard of. 24 hour days become rather common at the beginning. Any time something is broken, you stay there until you get it fixed if you have a production shift coming on the next day unless you want them to stand and do nothing. And, they are normally pissed the rest of the day if they have to delay at the start of a shift.

I have worked at city and county government both, and they were different.

The thing about the federal govt is, when their revenues go down, they add more employees and ask for more money. When private business loses revenues, employees lose jobs and owners lose income. Want a good example, look at the postal service. Two years ago, it lost 8 billion, this past year, only 5 billion. Private business would not be able to steal money from the treasury to pay the loss.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

The thing about the federal govt is, when their revenues go down, they add more employees and ask for more money.

Wrong. Personnel strengths in the federal government are based on budgets.

You really can't compare the USPS to other federal agencies; they are totally different, have totally different rules and guidelines in a lot of areas. They produce commercials and advertisement. Other than the armed forces, other federal agencies don't advertise by television commercials.

 

[Airport]

Wrong. Personnel strengths in the federal government are based on budgets.

You really can't compare the USPS to other federal agencies; they are totally different, have totally different rules and guidelines in a lot of areas. They produce commercials and advertisement. Other than the armed forces, other federal agencies don't advertise by television commercials.

I wasn't just talking about USPS. How about furloughing federal employees when revenues go down like happens in private business. Like I said, the Federal budget increases continually no matter what the economic climate. I wish I could have increased my salary the same in the last 5 years or kep it the same. You hear adds from Obamacare and how to apply and get subsidies, money from the public, to help pay for your healthcare. Why should the federal govt continue to expand in a time of recession?

 

[WhiteTailEER]

The thing about the federal govt is, when their revenues go down, they add more employees and ask for more money. When private business loses revenues, employees lose jobs and owners lose income. Want a good example, look at the postal service. Two years ago, it lost 8 billion, this past year, only 5 billion. Private business would not be able to steal money from the treasury to pay the loss.

That's really not true. There are hiring freezes all the time in various federal workforces, meaning when people leave or retire they don't get replaced. Also the risk of furlough everytime congress can't pass a budget. Also, the pay is generally not as good as in the private sector, but there is generally more stability. I haven't looked at the payscales in the last year or so, but they haven't changed much for quite awhile now.

When you talk about budgets in the federal budget, a lot of that goes to contractors. That life is not all that stable either, especially with sequestrations and budget issues. It is the contractor staff that feels the brunt on those things. With the push to lower budgets, many people are taking pay cuts to keep their jobs.

 

[Airport]

That's really not true. There are hiring freezes all the time in various federal workforces, meaning when people leave or retire they don't get replaced. Also the risk of furlough everytime congress can't pass a budget. Also, the pay is generally not as good as in the private sector, but there is generally more stability. I haven't looked at the payscales in the last year or so, but they haven't changed much for quite awhile now.

When you talk about budgets in the federal budget, a lot of that goes to contractors. That life is not all that stable either, especially with sequestrations and budget issues. It is the contractor staff that feels the brunt on those things. With the push to lower budgets, many people are taking pay cuts to keep their jobs.

I've sustained a 20% paycut. Do yu think the federal workers experienced that much. I carried my staff for 1.5 years before I cut their hours. One poster on here said go check USGOVTjobs.com or something like that and see all the jobs that can't be filled. There's no doubt that we can cut our budget and still provide as much federal govt as we need. Trips to Las Vegas and million dollar videos to show me the money aren't really necessary. There's just no accountability for fed workers, you screw up really bad, you get moved to somewhere else. Private companies, fire you. There is just so much waste and there's no incentive to eliminate it, at all levels.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I've sustained a 20% paycut. Do yu think the federal workers experienced that much. I carried my staff for 1.5 years before I cut their hours. One poster on here said go check USGOVTjobs.com or something like that and see all the jobs that can't be filled. There's no doubt that we can cut our budget and still provide as much federal govt as we need. Trips to Las Vegas and million dollar videos to show me the money aren't really necessary. There's just no accountability for fed workers, you screw up really bad, you get moved to somewhere else. Private companies, fire you. There is just so much waste and there's no incentive to eliminate it, at all levels.

Perhaps not federal workers directly, but contract staff certainly has. And those are the ones that were lucky enough to keep their jobs at all. These government agencies are probably 80% contract workers, not federal government workers.

Or, tired of the instability and pay cuts, the people just quit and go to work in private industry.

 

[mneilmont]

For you, I don't doubt it at all.

I think neil is the male version of the female character that Cloris Leachman plays on "Raising Hope".

You are really incapable of having a thought. Government thinks for you.

 

[mneilmont]

Wrong. Personnel strengths in the federal government are based on budgets.

You really can't compare the USPS to other federal agencies; they are totally different, have totally different rules and guidelines in a lot of areas. They produce commercials and advertisement. Other than the armed forces, other federal agencies don't advertise by television commercials.

If you are going to be a drone the rest of your life, may I claim you as a dependent?

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

You are really incapable of having a thought. Government thinks for you.