Cliff @'Bama...

RU82

Heisman
Jun 7, 2001
31,305
30,661
113
I’m not happy about playing Cliff. I really wish we could afford to have kept him for this season. We have a huge question mark at the 5 spot.
 

hinson32

All-American
Jul 29, 2005
7,749
5,909
57
I am in the minority, but I have a tough time getting excited for this year.

371 out of 4025 minutes of Conference play are returning.

I realize Cliff really shouldnt be returning, but we shouldnt be playing against him!
Take a deep breath and enjoy watching the talents of two NBA lottery picks. Even if RU doesn't meet your expectations, or will be really fun watching their talent this year b
 

Degaz-RU

Heisman
Dec 19, 2002
22,327
26,575
88
I am in the minority, but I have a tough time getting excited for this year.

371 out of 4025 minutes of Conference play are returning.

I realize Cliff really shouldnt be returning, but we shouldnt be playing against him!
In a pantheon of overly negative, Eeyore-like posts from you over the years, this one is the Eeyore-iest.

I mean, if you can’t get excited for our team this year, I’d go so far as to say you’ll never be excited (at least until Pike puts five McConnell clones on the floor to play nothing but defense).

Holy mackerel.
 

RAC93

All-Conference
Aug 11, 2023
3,005
4,924
113
I am in the minority, but I have a tough time getting excited for this year.

371 out of 4025 minutes of Conference play are returning.

I realize Cliff really shouldnt be returning, but we shouldnt be playing against him!
I am glad that much of that roster is not returning from last season, last year was an awful experience to suffer watching.
 

Mr. Magoo1

Heisman
Nov 15, 2001
15,452
16,286
113
This season may not be as successful as many people expect, IMO, but it should definitely be exciting , with the two highest ranked players in Rutgers history. I expect this team to be playing its best when it matters, late in the season.
 
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RUInsanityToo

All-American
May 5, 2006
9,520
9,827
113
I am in the minority, but I have a tough time getting excited for this year.

371 out of 4025 minutes of Conference play are returning.

I realize Cliff really shouldnt be returning, but we shouldnt be playing against him!

Unstead of going through the motions , perhaps out of charity you should pass your tickets along to someone who is excited about seeing the team but does not get the opportunity to go to games live.
 

DC8690

All-Conference
Feb 8, 2017
966
1,535
93
Take a deep breath and enjoy watching the talents of two NBA lottery picks. Even if RU doesn't meet your expectations, or will be really fun watching their talent this year b
Evidently he has no expectations so he should be happy.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
In a pantheon of overly negative, Eeyore-like posts from you over the years, this one is the Eeyore-iest.

I mean, if you can’t get excited for our team this year, I’d go so far as to say you’ll never be excited (at least until Pike puts five McConnell clones on the floor to play nothing but defense).

Holy mackerel.
This isn't true. I am always excited for the start of the season. Now it is only August.
 

BillyC80

Heisman
Oct 23, 2006
17,078
15,462
72
I am in the minority, but I have a tough time getting excited for this year.

371 out of 4025 minutes of Conference play are returning.

I realize Cliff really shouldnt be returning, but we shouldnt be playing against him!
I’m excited, after 8 seasons (under Pike) of trying to outscore our opponents with defense, to now rooting for us to outscore them with offense.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
I’m excited, after 8 seasons (under Pike) of trying to outscore our opponents with defense, to now rooting for us to outscore them with offense.
Is this right coaching staff for that? The answer for every losing streak has been play better D and put people on the floor that do……..and it has mostly worked!
 
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Feb 5, 2003
10,968
9,370
113
Why would we assume this staff cannot get strong defense out of this roster? Only now, we also have some guys that can SCORE like we have not had in years. If a Rutgers fan cannot get excited about this coming season, it's hard to imagine a season-starting roster in today's college ball environment that would cause that fan to be excited.
 

lion1983

All-Conference
Apr 24, 2024
1,253
2,519
113
Is this right coaching staff for that? The answer for every losing streak has been play better D and put people on the floor that do……..and it has mostly worked!
Well ... time will tell (and soon, frankly ... in November and December). But RU does have some potentially outstanding defensive players they can throw onto the court: J. Williams, J. Davis, Ogbole, Derkack ... and by all indications, Bailey has potential (certainly the athletic chops) to be at least an above average defender ... and Dortch is supposed to be, though limited in certain areas and too "wiry", an excellent defender. AND ... RU has LENGTH ... everywhere, at every position, this season ... which they lacked, and was sorely missing last season.

It REALLY hurt RU last season when Fernandes was in - RU's best 3-point shooter (though very inconsistent at that): Fernandes was a willing defender, and quick enough also, and an above average on-ball defender, except ... at 5'11" playing against anyone 6'3" or taller - with the least bit of athleticism, the opposing player would simply rise up and shoot right over Fernandes - cannot tell you how many times that happened (Fernandes playing good solid D, and his opponent simply shooting right over him). That is not going to happen nearly as much this coming season, simply because of the MATH of heights:

1) RU's shortest player is J. Davis, at a legit 6'2" - but so much quicker and more athletic than Fernandes, or even Simpson (who was 6'3");

2) RU's expected starters will be 6'4" (Williams), 6'6" (Harper - or is he taller? - not as quick as some but with the similarly long arms of his brother), 6'9" (Bailey - slender, but elite athleticism), 6'7" (Martini - and not with a ton of vertical leap) and 6'10" - 6'11" (Ogbole - big, string, elite athleticism);

3) The bench has length and athleticism also: 6'2" (Davis - the shortest player on the team, but probably the single best on-ball defender, with electric quickness defensively, and great vertical), 6'4" (Acuff - listed at 6'4" - may actually be 6'3", a tad shorter than Williams ... not known as an above-average defender), 6'6" (Derkack - and IMO a legit 6'6" - athletic - maybe not elite athleticism, but above average ... reputation as a very strong defender - though from a zone defense), 6'9" (Sommerville - not elite athleticism, but strong with decent lateral movement), 6'8" (Grant), 6'9" - 6'10" (Dortch - not sure of his role or how many minutes, but very athletic, supposed strong defender) and 6'6" (Hayes - I think he may be 6'5", not 6'6" - and not a great defender - he is there to shoot the 3).

Frankly, the reason RU needed to throw into the game pure defensive players was often rather deficient offensive players ... so with better offensive players, and more of them, perhaps the extended 0=15 to 0-20 runs RU faced in many games won't happen as much? So maybe not as much, or as often, the need to go purely defense. Though I can certainly see times when RU goes with mainly defensive players - but I'd be surprised if one of Bailey or Harper were not ALSO on the floor in those rotations.
 
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LotusAggressor_rivals

All-American
Oct 11, 2003
16,078
7,847
113
Successful defense minded teams turn defense into easy baskets on offense. RU played excellent defense last season. Offensively, they weren't so excellent.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
lion...

no doubt we will have length and over the past few years I have realized that length is a huge defensive asset. We were an elite defensive team playing Paul Mulcahy, crazy thought given his lateral quickness (slowness).

The one thing that has been a constant is a shot blocking 5. I have always thought that was the foundation of our defense. Either ogobole steps up and is a 20-25MPG player that is the shot blocker OR my thesis will be tested.
 

PiscatawayMike

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
17,332
15,175
113
Besides Cliff, I'm eager to see this guy when RU battles Alabama in Las Vegas...

https://rolltide.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/naas-cunningham/12498

When he was ranked the No. 1 sophomore in the country, everybody was hoping he'd land at RU.



 

GM

All-Conference
Jan 18, 2020
1,484
2,446
51
If last years team was a top 5 D, I think at minimum we can get to top 20 this year. But there is a possibility imo this team is more effective at that end as they can rebound better and have more length and diverse types of defenders, plus this team has actual transition talent.
 

G- RUnit

All-American
Sep 13, 2004
14,371
7,973
113
Well ... time will tell (and soon, frankly ... in November and December). But RU does have some potentially outstanding defensive players they can throw onto the court: J. Williams, J. Davis, Ogbole, Derkack ... and by all indications, Bailey has potential (certainly the athletic chops) to be at least an above average defender ... and Dortch is supposed to be, though limited in certain areas and too "wiry", an excellent defender. AND ... RU has LENGTH ... everywhere, at every position, this season ... which they lacked, and was sorely missing last season.

It REALLY hurt RU last season when Fernandes was in - RU's best 3-point shooter (though very inconsistent at that): Fernandes was a willing defender, and quick enough also, and an above average on-ball defender, except ... at 5'11" playing against anyone 6'3" or taller - with the least bit of athleticism, the opposing player would simply rise up and shoot right over Fernandes - cannot tell you how many times that happened (Fernandes playing good solid D, and his opponent simply shooting right over him). That is not going to happen nearly as much this coming season, simply because of the MATH of heights:

1) RU's shortest player is J. Davis, at a legit 6'2" - but so much quicker and more athletic than Fernandes, or even Simpson (who was 6'3");

2) RU's expected starters will be 6'4" (Williams), 6'6" (Harper - or is he taller? - not as quick as some but with the similarly long arms of his brother), 6'9" (Bailey - slender, but elite athleticism), 6'7" (Martini - and not with a ton of vertical leap) and 6'10" - 6'11" (Ogbole - big, string, elite athleticism);

3) The bench has length and athleticism also: 6'2" (Davis - the shortest player on the team, but probably the single best on-ball defender, with electric quickness defensively, and great vertical), 6'4" (Acuff - listed at 6'4" - may actually be 6'3", a tad shorter than Williams ... not known as an above-average defender), 6'6" (Derkack - and IMO a legit 6'6" - athletic - maybe not elite athleticism, but above average ... reputation as a very strong defender - though from a zone defense), 6'9" (Sommerville - not elite athleticism, but strong with decent lateral movement), 6'8" (Grant), 6'9" - 6'10" (Dortch - not sure of his role or how many minutes, but very athletic, supposed strong defender) and 6'6" (Hayes - I think he may be 6'5", not 6'6" - and not a great defender - he is there to shoot the 3).

Frankly, the reason RU needed to throw into the game pure defensive players was often rather deficient offensive players ... so with better offensive players, and more of them, perhaps the extended 0=15 to 0-20 runs RU faced in many games won't happen as much? So maybe not as much, or as often, the need to go purely defense. Though I can certainly see times when RU goes with mainly defensive players - but I'd be surprised if one of Bailey or Harper were not ALSO on the floor in those rotations.
Davis is not so more athletic or quicker then Simpson. Simpson’s weakness was his shot, not his athleticism. Still think we will miss his handle, D, and foul shooting.
 
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RUPete

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
26,841
16,113
0
In a pantheon of overly negative, Eeyore-like posts from you over the years, this one is the Eeyore-iest.

I mean, if you can’t get excited for our team this year, I’d go so far as to say you’ll never be excited (at least until Pike puts five McConnell clones on the floor to play nothing but defense).

Holy mackerel.
I would like to see that. At the end of the day, you only need one more point than the other team.
 

Caliknight

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2001
196,408
148,462
113
This is college sports. Yearly free agency. Cliff was helpful while he was here but now he’s not. Next.

I also have a feeling at the end of the season we are going to say we didn’t lose anything with Cliff not being on the roster. Great dunker, great shot blocker, average rebounder, horrid post game, passing, and shooting.
 

RUSCFORMERLYRULOU

All-American
Nov 12, 2017
5,489
6,967
103
This is college sports. Yearly free agency. Cliff was helpful while he was here but now he’s not. Next.

I also have a feeling at the end of the season we are going to say we didn’t lose anything with Cliff not being on the roster. Great dunker, great shot blocker, average rebounder, horrid post game, passing, and shooting.
His dunking actually regressed through the years. Would come up short or be blocked.
 
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needmorecowbell

Heisman
Oct 28, 2007
9,598
10,730
78
This season may not be as successful as many people expect, IMO, but it should definitely be exciting , with the two highest ranked players in Rutgers history. I expect this team to be playing its best when it matters, late in the season.
Exactly. I am going to enjoy this season no matter the outcome (assuming no major injuries) knock on wood. I do expect them to play well and make the tournament but it’s college basketball, anything can happen and we are relying on two freshman to carry the team. Thank goodness they are super talented!!
 
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RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,651
38,129
113
This is college sports. Yearly free agency. Cliff was helpful while he was here but now he’s not. Next.

I also have a feeling at the end of the season we are going to say we didn’t lose anything with Cliff not being on the roster. Great dunker, great shot blocker, average rebounder, horrid post game, passing, and shooting.

Love Cliff. But I see no lies here. Hope the change of scenery helps him develop. I’ll be rooting for him from December to mid-March.
 

needmorecowbell

Heisman
Oct 28, 2007
9,598
10,730
78
This is college sports. Yearly free agency. Cliff was helpful while he was here but now he’s not. Next.

I also have a feeling at the end of the season we are going to say we didn’t lose anything with Cliff not being on the roster. Great dunker, great shot blocker, average rebounder, horrid post game, passing, and shooting.
Cliff is going to be a big part of Alabama’s success. You don’t easily replace guys like him. The guy averaged 12/8 for 3 years.
 
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Knight Owl

All-Conference
Jul 27, 2001
3,536
2,580
0
Cliff is going to be a big part of Alabama’s success. You don’t easily replace guys like him. The guy averaged 12/8 for 3 years.
Ogbole should wind up being a dominant rebounder…and very soon. He’s a walking double double eventually when he gets more minutes.
 
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lion1983

All-Conference
Apr 24, 2024
1,253
2,519
113
Cliff is going to be a big part of Alabama’s success. You don’t easily replace guys like him. The guy averaged 12/8 for 3 years.
He will be tough to replace, and he is better than the combo of Ogbole/Sommerville (even from those most optimistic about them), and he would have been a great compliment to this season's RU team.

But ...

Please, do NOT exaggerate his accomplishments: He did not average 12 ppg and 8 rpg for 3 years . He DID average that for 2 years - his Soph and Junior years ... and clearly regressed in every facet of his game last season as a Senior (except blocked shots - but was also not nearly as effective a defender - for whatever reason - every average or better center he faced last season out played him badly)

Freshman Year: 3.8 ppg, 4 rpg ... 63% FG, 42% FT

Sophomore Year: 11.9 ppg, 7.8 rpg ... 1.25 blocks/g ... 62% FG, 60% FT, 1-6 total from 3

Junior Year: 13.4 ppg, 9.8 rpg ... 2.1 blocks/g (though he was a far better defender this year than his Senior year) ... 51% FG, 60% FT, 4-22 total from 3

Senior Year: 10.4 ppg, 8.3 rpg ... 2.9 blocks/g ... 51% FG (really, should be better), 61% FT, 1-5 total from 3

Basically, Omoruyi made a big leap from his freshman to sophomore season, after Myles Johnson left, making Omoruyi the start - and visibly improved various skills, such as improved hands, better shot selection, better overall defense. He played at roughly the same level in his junior season, though with some improvements on the margin (32 assists vs 12 as a soph, more TO - 62 vs 41 as a soph but still a better A/TO ratio, 5% increase in minutes/game, significant rebounding improvement and a 1.5 ppg improvement).

But he really regressed last season, in hugely important ways: Fewer rebounds, much worse on-ball post defense, significant reduction in FG% (even though he still mostly took short hooks, short turnarounds and dunks). You can explain away all that (i.e. no great shooters around him - vs as a Junior he had Spencer and as a Soph he had Harper), but the bottom line is that RU NEEDED him to step up his game and carry the team, as they did last year, he was completely unable to do so. Period, end of discussion. He could NOT be a "lead" player for RU - he just did not have the skills. He is a terrific complimentary player, not a star. I think that was proven.

I would remind people (and please someone correct me if I am wrong - I did this a week ago or so, and I think I got it right - or close to right at least): . When Omoruyi recorded a double-double last season (10 points AND 10 rebounds) in a single game, RU won ... period. 9-0 in the 9 games he was able to do that. Therefore 6-17 in games where he could NOT record a double-double. In many ways, you could say he was like Andre Hyatt: Very inconsistent, very good about 1/3 of the time. And sure, you cannot put it all on Omoruyi ... after all, mostly no other RU player stepped it up to carry the team in games where Omoruyi could not (except J. Williams a bit when he became available). Still ... a star player ought to be able to be better than carrying the team only 1/3 of the time, no?
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
29,408
28,553
113
He will be tough to replace, and he is better than the combo of Ogbole/Sommerville (even from those most optimistic about them), and he would have been a great compliment to this season's RU team.

But ...

Please, do NOT exaggerate his accomplishments: He did not average 12 ppg and 8 rpg for 3 years . He DID average that for 2 years - his Soph and Junior years ... and clearly regressed in every facet of his game last season as a Senior (except blocked shots - but was also not nearly as effective a defender - for whatever reason - every average or better center he faced last season out played him badly)

Freshman Year: 3.8 ppg, 4 rpg ... 63% FG, 42% FT

Sophomore Year: 11.9 ppg, 7.8 rpg ... 1.25 blocks/g ... 62% FG, 60% FT, 1-6 total from 3

Junior Year: 13.4 ppg, 9.8 rpg ... 2.1 blocks/g (though he was a far better defender this year than his Senior year) ... 51% FG, 60% FT, 4-22 total from 3

Senior Year: 10.4 ppg, 8.3 rpg ... 2.9 blocks/g ... 51% FG (really, should be better), 61% FT, 1-5 total from 3

Basically, Omoruyi made a big leap from his freshman to sophomore season, after Myles Johnson left, making Omoruyi the start - and visibly improved various skills, such as improved hands, better shot selection, better overall defense. He played at roughly the same level in his junior season, though with some improvements on the margin (32 assists vs 12 as a soph, more TO - 62 vs 41 as a soph but still a better A/TO ratio, 5% increase in minutes/game, significant rebounding improvement and a 1.5 ppg improvement).

But he really regressed last season, in hugely important ways: Fewer rebounds, much worse on-ball post defense, significant reduction in FG% (even though he still mostly took short hooks, short turnarounds and dunks). You can explain away all that (i.e. no great shooters around him - vs as a Junior he had Spencer and as a Soph he had Harper), but the bottom line is that RU NEEDED him to step up his game and carry the team, as they did last year, he was completely unable to do so. Period, end of discussion. He could NOT be a "lead" player for RU - he just did not have the skills. He is a terrific complimentary player, not a star. I think that was proven.

I would remind people (and please someone correct me if I am wrong - I did this a week ago or so, and I think I got it right - or close to right at least): . When Omoruyi recorded a double-double last season (10 points AND 10 rebounds) in a single game, RU won ... period. 9-0 in the 9 games he was able to do that. Therefore 6-17 in games where he could NOT record a double-double. In many ways, you could say he was like Andre Hyatt: Very inconsistent, very good about 1/3 of the time. And sure, you cannot put it all on Omoruyi ... after all, mostly no other RU player stepped it up to carry the team in games where Omoruyi could not (except J. Williams a bit when he became available). Still ... a star player ought to be able to be better than carrying the team only 1/3 of the time, no?
Sometimes the players regress, sometimes the roster overall regresses and negatively effects other players, sometimes the coaches regress, sometimes it’s a little bit of everything.

I would not put much on cliff in this instance.