Yeah it's not the DNC that gets most of it's support from Middle eastern backed companies...
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=e01
China has concentration camps for slave labor?
- Thread starter Msubulldogfan1
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Yeah it's not the DNC that gets most of it's support from Middle eastern backed companies...
It's not the NBA it's Nike. Nike needs China and the NBA needs China. Nike's annual profit for June 19 to May 20 was $16B. The combined revenue of all NBA teams for the 2018/19 season was $8.76 billion. So it's not so much that the NBA is beholden to China; the NBA is beholden to Nike, and when Nike tells them to listen to China, they listen to China.
Has it?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMS
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/manufacturing-jobs-roaring-back/
Looks like it is in the same place as it was in 2014....
That horse is out of the barn. If it's not china, it will be someone else.
Unless the market stops placing as much value on share growth and more on people.
That’s what has to happen. At some point, I would hope Americans will unite against big business, and force some changes. Because if we continue on the path we are on, we will be a nation of poor people.
America isn’t perfect, but is certainly capable of big changes.
It's not marginal domestic economic concerns at play in the Middle East. There are no good guys other than Israel, so we align ourselves with the people that are least harmful to our interests. Saudi Arabia is pretty awful and supplies its fair share of terrorists, but they are less bad than Iran and we can at least get their royal family to say things related to Israel other than that they want to exterminate them.
Economics definitely played a much bigger role with treatment of China, but it's not all that was at play. We have helped make a lot of poor Chinese people much better off by opening up trade with China. But free'ish, or I guess more accurately freer, trade with China has not had the liberalizing influence that some had hoped, but instead has allowed China to exert its influence abroad and possibly helped entrenched the CCP in China.
It’s incredible how we’ve transformed China in to one of the 3 most powerful countries in the world in just 40 years or so.
So does America. Private prison labor is a thing. Look up the conditions at Angola prison in Louisiana.
Does this mean that what China is doing is fine? No, absolutely not, but just because we create a thin veneer of civility and legality putting people on trial, giving fourth amendment violating sentences through mandatory minimums, and imprisoning more people than any other developed nation doesn't make us a ton better. We need to look in the mirror and clean up our own system before we start criticizing others.
Does this mean that what China is doing is fine? No, absolutely not, but just because we create a thin veneer of civility and legality putting people on trial, giving fourth amendment violating sentences through mandatory minimums, and imprisoning more people than any other developed nation doesn't make us a ton better. We need to look in the mirror and clean up our own system before we start criticizing others.
I don’t believe those are separate issues. It all boils down to money, they can be fixed simultaneously.
You don't need to treat "sweatshops" and slave labor as the same. There are lots of factories with conditions and pay that the US would consider awful that still provide a much better quality of life than subsistence farming, which is what the alternative would be for most of the workers. Boycotting companies that give those workers their best economic option is not a way to help those workers if that's the goal.
Of course, from afar, it's pretty much impossible to tell who is working voluntarily and who is there involuntarily, but in principle, the two shouldn't be treated as the same. Luckily Nike has given plenty of reasons to boycott them in addition to their questionable labor practices, so there's no need to try to figure out whether they are using slave labor or just cheap labor.
There are countries with cheap labor but without concentration camps or slave labor. Probably none of them are going to have the human rights record that we would like, but they also won't be China.
Don’t worry, they aren’t actually slaves. They are in fact, comrade workers who have not yet fully grasped their fortune of living in a social collectivist state and are therefore being compulsively enlightened at re-education facilities.
This problem has been a reality in this broken World for thousands of years and we are all guilty for supporting it, whether knowingly or unknowingly. Every country in this World is currently involved with some form of slave labor, and the only way to completely separate yourself from it is to "go off the grid" and become 100% self sufficient. Anyone here willing to do that? Didn't think so. So get off your high horses and keep on keeping on.
Sooo, don’t try to make things better? Just continue having a blind eye to the problem?
Yea, that always works***
Nothing new here.
Why do you think American manufactures relocated jobs to China as soon as our government allowed them to?
You guys got a problem with cheap labor and the free market?
Okay so let's hear it. How will you make it better besides buying New Balances? Have you ever been to a third World country for a significant amount of time? And I mean not just for a business trip or the touristy stuff... I mean really getting to know the people in the slums. You should start there so you can give the problem a face in you mind. Every free person that calls USA home is in the top 2% of wealth in the World. Are you willing to give that up to stop turning a blind eye and make a difference? Not trying to bust your balls, but this World is broken and will continue to be until it ends. The only thing we can do as an individual to make it any better is to get out and create loving relationships with people of all walks of life. It ain't going to get better by not buying certain things that come from certain places to make ourselves feel like we've "done our part".
Cool links to sites I've never heard of. I know what my eyes see and the workplace demands.
Fact - Just before COVID there were more manufacturing jobs in this country than there were willing people to fill them.
All valid points, I guess what I’m trying to say is that we seem to care more about domestic economic interests than whether anyone has slaves or any other major human rights issues going on, for better or worse. Both parties are guilty of this.
We could seriously turn up the heat on China and demand closure of the internment camps, and dare them to pursue the nuclear option of liquidating our treasury bonds. If they did, you’d still be looking at another 2008 crash, which was terrible but at the same time not some catastrophic event that led to us achieving 3rd world status. I doubt they would even do that because China needs US economic prosperity to hold up their own economic interests. However, the fear that officials in both parties seem to have as it comes to even testing the boundaries of how far these other foreign powers will go in retaliation against the US clearly illustrates how little they actually give a 17 about what happens to those citizens....regardless of how much posturing they do publicly.
It’s up to the people in each country to make their living situations better. That’s one reason immigration can be a bad thing, when the best and brightest of poor countries leave instead of making their home better.
Obviously one regular Joe can’t do much of anything to make a difference, except do his/her part. The power belongs to the masses, if everybody worked together.
I’m not naive, you’re not busting anyone’s bubble, but I certainly can’t think of a valid reason why humans can’t work together and make the world better. Turning a blind eye and saying “a slave made this, but 17 it” is not any type of solution.
I’m not saying my life is ruined and I’m moving to Montana to live off the land, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bring attention to these problems and work them out.
America thrives before companies moved to China, I don’t see why we couldn’t do that again. It might hurt for a bit, but we would be fine.
You seem like a genuinely nice person with a bleeding heart for the millions born into devastating circumstances much like I do. All I am saying is that if this truly does bother you enough to speak up, then you can actually make a difference as an individual. Its called the power of discipleship. Your positive effect on one person can multiply exponentially.
My keep on keeping on comment, or one could say live and let live, stems from many of the other comments made. I just get tired of people that are more fortunate than 98% of the World preaching about how to make things better through political and economic channels. It's a cop out and yes, hypocritical. I guess we really are part of the problem or part of the solution.. :sigh:
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He wants to bring those jobs back to the USA.
That's the horse that is out of the barn.
It's the "companies responsibility is to maximize shareholder gains" horse. That the market is using the cheapest labor available, is a rider on that horse.
But yeah, even if we stop using Chinese slave labor, There are dozens of other countries with lower wages that are used before the jobs come back to the USA.
And until there are larger driving forces, there is not a way to get that horse back in the barn
Slave labor is the cheapest labor.....
Again, Capitalism doesn't care if you live or die...
So which is it? Should we not buy Chinese goods? Or is it up to the Chinese slaves to make things better for themselves?
They feed and house them don't they? I read somewhere that slaves actually like being cared for.... or was that just some made up ********?
(I really hope I don't have to put sarcastericks for you guys.)
(I really hope I don't have to put sarcastericks for you guys.)
Both. We should stop enabling China by buying their goods, and those being oppressed have to uprise.
Gotcha and agree, but was responding based on your "stops placing as much value on share growth and more on people". Just further emphasizing the difference between using slave labor or other forced labor versus cheap labor. If you are giving people in grinding poverty a better opportunity than currently exists to them, that doesn't mean you're putting more value on share growth than on people. You could justify the decision without caring about people at all, or without caring about profits at all, because typically they simultaneously improve profits and make desperately poor people better off.
I’m no 17ing saint, not a revolutionist, high horse morality preaching guy. I’m an average Joe, not out to change the world. But we can do the little things. There’s a Gandalf grey quote out there that relates to this.
I wish we as Americans, would focus on these problems instead of fighting each other about race and other media manipulative issues. We need to hold big business accountable for their actions.
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It would hurt those with the most money invested in those operations. So there's that.
How's it supposed to trickle down if those at the very top are hurting?
How's it supposed to trickle down if those at the very top are hurting?
Again, the World is broken, and "we as Americans" are not going to fix that...ever. There is a Tozer quote that relates to this best.
“If man had his way, the plan of redemption would be an endless and bloody conflict. In reality, salvation was bought not by Jesus' fist, but by His nail-pierced hands; not by muscle but by love; not by vengeance but by forgiveness; not by force but by sacrifice.”
Not only won't it change instantaneously, by all accounts it will continue well past when you are dead. By then, China may move towards improved conditions and de-emphasize manufacturing in some sectors to instead design foranufacture elsewhere, but all projections I have seen show China not losing US companies for all intents and purposes.
Japan dominated manufacturing over there and much moved to Taiwan with the implosion of the yen and higher employment costs. Taiwan became great at manufacturing and still does a lot, but much that is designed in Taiwan is now manufactured in China. Perhaps China becomes the current Taiwan and eventually oversees manufacture in another area.
What trajectory are you speaking of?
The problem is exactly as you state- it raises the cost to consumers and doesn't penalize China.
You hope this will lead to Americans onshoring production, but that is an ignorant hope at a large scale.
The US literally doesn't have some infrastructure thst China(and Taiwan) have for manufaturing. There are entire roads and even towns where businesses which compliment one another are located close by for ease of production.
If tariffs increase, you will see more of whats already happened- companies will relocate to other places in Asia with low labor costs. This will get around tariffs and there will be no new jobs in the US.
Seriously- this has happened over and over already in the last 18 months of tariff wars.
Now you weave complaining about intellectual property theft with tariffs when they are separate issues.
I am fully on board with cracking down on IP theft, forgeries, knockoffs, etc. Totally on board. In fact, I even think Amazon should be held accountable for hosting products that are knock-offs or violate visual recognition standards.
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