Locked hands, but we've all seen thd Brands win their share of those challenges. Apparently, it's in their wheelhouse, unlike singlet pulls.
Big 10 session 4 pbp/discussion
- Thread starter SEWAHawk
- Start date
Unlike what most would have you believe grabbing a singlet is up to a refs discretion sometimes they can warn a wrestler and then subsequent offenses can result in points given to the other wrestler. One key component. In order for a singlet grab to be a penalty it has to be advantageous. Singlet grabs happen accidentally all the time and don't get called. Just an fyi i did not see the singlet grab by rocco and I'm NOT saying he didn't grab it. I'm just saying just because a finger got caught in a head gear or singlet doesn't make it an automatic penalty. When the point was given to hall a few years ago it was clear that the pull resulted in a takedown thus making it advantageous
There were at least two “grabs”. For the one in OT, it looks like he could have just caught his hand in the singlet and making the call was discretionary, but there was one when Ferrari had him off the ground where Welsh clearly grabbed and pulled on it. That should have been called no doubt.
Wasn't throwing shade was generally curious remmber at the time the announcers saying that was a smart move to challenge that in the moment of browns match
I’m going to guess no on this one. Poor officiating isn’t a new thing.
It's a penalty regardless. If it results in a score the score is waved off . Nobody saw it and Angelo never complained. Cameras did whatever it didn't matter in the outcome I don't believe. But let's not make up stuff . Read the rulebook should be in 5 under infractions
He probably should have. Or was he out of bricks? Any way you look at it, it doesn’t reflect well on the coaching staff.
Anyone from Penn State making any reference to sexual assault just shows what your fan base is really like.
How is the correct call favorable? Seriously. Iowa should probably man up and get better instead of bitching about the calls. Losers *****.
I never saw it either. It's not something that would get by Brands if they saw it. Maybe the ref missed it too. But if it's up to the refs discretion like you say, I am 100% sure it won't be called on the nits while wrestling Iowa or pretty much any other team.
It wouldn't be March if PSU didn't come over here and run their mouths.
I don't go to your site , but Im sure there are enough idiot hawk fans over there. Go ahead and let them have it, they deserve it.
I'm not going to make SA jokes, but if you don't like them there is a easy solution
The rule @District 4 article 5
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I have read the rule book and explained it in my post and just for the record even if called a penalty a point given is up to the refs discretion I'm not making it up you can read it yourself. I think we as fans have the hindsight or benefit of watching it on tv I'm guessing not everyone saw it because it wasn't called by the refs and tom didn't throw a brick. Either way i agree if rocco used it to his advantage and it was seen it should have been called
I'm pretty sure the ref didn't see it. I don't believe there is the level of conspiracy about refs and psu to the degree some are stating. I will however admit that every home match regardless of team receives special treatment even if subconsciously.
What does it say about holding a pass interference in football, traveling in basketball? There are calls missed all the time and calls their borderline to go one way or another.
Roger Angell, a noted baseball writer once said something close to this, if you want to take a walk out of the equation just dominate the game so much that a lucky bounce or a car won't matter.
In case of say, Marcus Blaze and Max McEnelly , they both started wrestling hard right at the end in overtime. If they would've tried to go on the offense earlier, they might have won. Askren mentioned this in a video.
As for Welsh, Ferrari just had to finish a shot. which he didn't. Just because he gets in that deep doesn't mean the guy is going to just roll over and not try to defend it.
Another analogy that fits with quantum mechanics nearly as well as this topic. Well done. As usual, you are right on point!
It's even more ridiculous due to my voice texting. But seriously, if these guys actually try to push earlier it won't come down to some judgement call at the end. Both Blaze and McEnelly farted around then finally went all in at the end. Why not try it I don't know, maybe with a minute to go in regulation?Another analogy that fits with quantum mechanics nearly as well as this topic. Well done. As usual, you are right on point!
Not trying to get into a pissing contest, but you're incorrect.
@Corby2 already posted the rule from the playbook so I won't repost it. The specific rule is 5.8.5 (Grasping Clothing or Equipment) and can be found on page 59 of the rulebook. Grasping is a technical violation like locked hands or leaving the mat without permission. It's a point. Any points gained by the offender as the result of the penalty are wiped. There is no direction to qualify whether or not any advantage was gained, nor is there even wiggle room for that interpretation in the rule OR within the NCAA Casebook. It's black and white. The only determination is whether or not the singlet, shoe, headgear, etc. was grabbed. That's it. The penalty table specifically states that there is no warning on a first offense.
If you read the NCAA wrestling 2025-27 Casebook, there is an example that illustrates this.
Per that interpretation, getting a hand under the singlet wouldn't be a violation, but any grasping of it would be. We all have our own opinions on whether or not those calls would have changed the outcome of the Welsh/Ferrari match likely determined by whether you are a Penn State fan, an Iowa fan, or a fan of some other team. Nothing said in a message board is likely to change that opinion by any part that holds strongly to it one way or the other.
What isn't and shouldn't be an opinion is the way that the rule is written, functions, or how the penalties are applied. Those are written out about as clearly as is possible. There are photos and videos of at least 3 singlet grabs from multiple different angles in the Welsh/Ferrari match. There's no real way to deny that they occurred. They did and no one can really argue that they didn't. The match is over and there is no way to go back to change the outcome. That's also a fact.
The only real questions that should exist are:
1) How were all three missed by the referees? I could see the first one in TB's missed because it happened so low to the ground and the ref was on the opposite side, but the second grab pulled the singlet out several inches away from Ferrari's chest, perpendicular to the body so there was light between the singlet and the skin. That one should have been seen. Additionally, the singlet grab on the takedown attempt was right in the frame of vision of the front side referee (or should have been). There are two refs for a reason. The ref on the opposite corner couldn't have seen it, but the one near the boundary should have.
2) How was it missed by the Iowa corner? That shouldn't happen. That was an easy challenge to make, would have quickly been confirmed, and then Ferrari is up 2-0 in the second with about 40 seconds left in the period. It would have changed the entire dynamic for the rest of the match. Does Welsh go down in the third knowing he needs an escape and a takedown or a reversal or does he go neutral in the third to go straight for the takedown?
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Stop bringing actual facts into this
. Like I said I didn't think it impacted the outcome of the match. But some want to make up rules
Other than Ferrari losing of course…lolStop bringing actual facts into this
Yes it has been since RBY did it to DeSanto. I know PSU teaches this because I’ve seen it from time to time since RBY. It’s dirty wrestling.
TNT knew this and Williams probably said he was willing to change and hasn’t. Maybe Williams was sore because his season was over and said screw it, I don’t care.
It wouldn’t be a shock if he hit the portal.
This just an observation and opinion, I have no idea if JW will or won’t leave.
It’s a big deal when refs miss this, ask Daron Fix it cost him a National Championship.
My biggest gripe is the outside officials never make their input known. In other sports officials get together and make it right. Both officials view reviews and I have my doubts they ever let the head official know, this is what I saw and I believe it would be the correct call.
I still believe their only purpose is to confirm what the head official called.
The question is, what authority do they have?