B1G preseason poll... BS

Apr 8, 2002
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I don't claim to be an expert in basketball, but the preseason polls that had Nebraska, Illinois and Indiana ahead of Rutgers might have been premature. There is a chance those schools may meet their expectations, but right now they're playing some bad basketball. Can anyone give solid evidence why they were picked to finish ahead of Rutgers? Are they clearly superior to Rutgers or is it more about perception of Rutgers in comparison to a Nebraska, Illinois or Indiana? I need real answers.:cry:
 

Degaz-RU

Heisman
Dec 19, 2002
22,347
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Because we finished last for three years running. Why would anybody (except homers like us) pick Rutgers to finish anything but last?

Of course, we know better because we’ve seen the improvements Pike has made. But outside observers aren’t going to buy in until we prove them wrong.
 
Apr 8, 2002
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Because we finished last for three years running. Why would anybody (except homers like us) pick Rutgers to finish anything but last?

Of course, we know better because we’ve seen the improvements Pike has made. But outside observers aren’t going to buy in until we prove them wrong.
Each season is its own entity. What you did two years ago or even last year has very little bearing on the current year. Players have changed coaches have changed and there's a thing called injuries. They have more impact on your season then perception. That's what Rutgers is really fighting. Laziness by the media to really look into each program and see what's really going on. Illinois is young and has a new coach. They will have issues throughout the season. Still you haven't heard much about that. Indiana also has a new coach. Nebraska is a clear example of underachieving while pouring millions into their program. Historically they have not been better than Rutgers. It's time to stop looking at the name on the front of the jersey and look at the meat and potatoes of each program to get an accurate picture of them.
 
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Mr. Magoo1

Heisman
Nov 15, 2001
15,461
16,306
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Nebraska looked terrible. Wisconsin doesn’t even look good but a lot of that is that they are playing Xavier. I think every Xavier player is quicker, more athletic and better shooters than the Wisconsin players but they are hanging in.

Indiana looks awful too.

One the other hand, Purdue, Minnesota, and Michigan State look extremely good.
 
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RutgHoops

Heisman
Aug 14, 2008
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Preseason polls were good for the, well, preseason. We are live now and where we were or weren’t picked means nothing. I am very confident this team does not finish last in conference. I am also quite confident that not finishing last isn’t the goal of our team this season.
 
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bac2therac

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Jul 30, 2001
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I don't claim to be an expert in basketball, but the preseason polls that had Nebraska, Illinois and Indiana ahead of Rutgers might have been premature. There is a chance those schools may meet their expectations, but right now they're playing some bad basketball. Can anyone give solid evidence why they were picked to finish ahead of Rutgers? Are they clearly superior to Rutgers or is it more about perception of Rutgers in comparison to a Nebraska, Illinois or Indiana? I need real answers.:cry:


because RU won only 3 league games last year and 3 games the two years combined...RU is 6- 42 in 3 years I think...so perception isnt going to change until RU starts winning some games. I think RU will not finish at the bottom. I think Illinois and Nebby and OSU will all struggle, Indy too so RU has a shot to finish as high 10 but the talent level on these teams is similar to RU...RU replacing Baker/Doucoure over Getty/Johnson may take some time until it show fruition. RU still has in a talent differential compared to most of the league.
 
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bac2therac

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Each season is its own entity. What you did two years ago or even last year has very little bearing on the current year. Players have changed coaches have changed and there's a thing called injuries. They have more impact on your season then perception. That's what Rutgers is really fighting. Laziness by the media to really look into each program and see what's really going on. Illinois is young and has a new coach. They will have issues throughout the season. Still you haven't heard much about that. Indiana also has a new coach. Nebraska is a clear example of underachieving while pouring millions into their program. Historically they have not been better than Rutgers. It's time to stop looking at the name on the front of the jersey and look at the meat and potatoes of each program to get an accurate picture of them.


I am going to disagree with this because based on who the others teams brought in and who RU brought in you cant say that RU should be ahead of them....Illinois I believe had a top 25 recruiting class of a team that just missed the NCAA tourney last year. Nebraska has been up and down but has talent. Indiana still has higher rated recruits than RU...its not hard to figure out why pundits would not elevate RU given only 6 league wins in 3 years, you have to have at least prove you can win league games. RU won 3 league games last year...all by like 1 or 2 points
 
Apr 8, 2002
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The game vs Central Connecticut State didn't do much to prove them wrong.
We love to point out what Rutgers' problems are, but fail to mention the problems of others. Nebraska look like sh*t against St. Johns, but hey that's not an issue for some on here. Indiana has a lot of holes in their game, but it gets overlooked because of the name on the front of the jersey. Illinois is a classic example of underachieving by a team that is suppose to be good based on recruiting rankings. Illinois was that close to going to the dance, but allowed a lesser team (Rutgers) to punch them in the face. All the superior Illinois did was walk away with their tail between their legs.

For once can we stop undervaluing Rutgers while at the same time overvaluing everyone else. This seems to be standard practice when it comes to any Rutgers sports team. Fans of other schools (& media personnel) take their cue from Rutgers fans. Some of you wonder why Rutgers can't shake the perception. It starts at home. For once cover the name of the teams and just look at the performance so far based on facts. Who is underachieving and who is out performing expectations.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
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We love to point out what Rutgers' problems are, but fail to mention the problems of others. Nebraska look like sh*t against St. Johns, but hey that's not an issue for some on here. Indiana has a lot of holes in their game, but it gets overlooked because of the name on the front of the jersey. Illinois is a classic example of underachieving by a team that is suppose to be good based on recruiting rankings. Illinois was that close to going to the dance, but allowed a lesser team (Rutgers) to punch them in the face. All the superior Illinois did was walk away with their tail between their legs.

For once can we stop undervaluing Rutgers while at the same time overvaluing everyone else. This seems to be standard practice when it comes to any Rutgers sports team. Fans of other schools (& media personnel) take their cue from Rutgers fans. Some of you wonder why Rutgers can't shake the perception. It starts at home. For once cover the name of the teams and just look at the performance so far based on facts. Who is underachieving and who is out performing expectations.

Do you really believe this? It is ALL about what happens on the court.

Another thing to consider.....predictions are based on B1G games. Save the 2 early games we still are 6 weeks away from B1G play.
 
Apr 8, 2002
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Do you really believe this? It is ALL about what happens on the court.

Another thing to consider.....predictions are based on B1G games. Save the 2 early games we still are 6 weeks away from B1G play.
I'm not claiming to an expert in basketball. I last played basketball in HS under the same coach who coached Greg Vetrone. I get the fundies of the game, but what I do understand are the principles of sports. I have close to 35 years of experience as a coach and player of football and baseball. The key to success in all sports is about development, coaching and match-ups.

Nebraska's coach couldn't develop the flu even if you injected him with the virus. Indiana is in flux due to a new coach and system. Illinois gets talent, but like Nebraska, the coach hasn't developed it to the point you can see the results on the court. Meanwhile, some of us sit here in denial about the improvements at Rutgers. Coach Pike has shown so far the ability to develop talent to get more out of the players. Last season Pike coaching abilities were on full display. Rutgers was a team/program that had no business being as competitive as there were. Pike schemes are sound and present problems for other teams that rely more on talent to carry them. One of Pike's best moves was to sign Baker. Baker's basketball IQ is great and this move will allow Pike to move Sanders into a situation where he doesn't have to be everything. Issa is another example of player development. The average fan or media expert is blind to these facts. Not everyone can be the superstar. You need several role players as compliments to your star. This is where Pike is starting to separate himself from some of the teams in the bottom half of the B1G.

I'm not expecting Rutgers to win the B1G, but now they don't show up to the gun fight with a knife anymore.
 
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TDIrish27

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Aug 2, 2001
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The Illinois HC just got there----it's Year 1.

His team at SF Austin 2 years ago was as well coached a unit as you will see. Believe he had a winning percentage there in the 80's

He got to the Tourney last year at Oklahoma State in his first go around there but left as he was underpaid

I thought he was a great hire for the Illini.
 

Local Shill

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Aug 30, 2001
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I'm not worried about preseason predictions. If RU is improved as we hope it will be, this stuff will take care of itself.

We'll know a lot more after playing Florida State, Minnesota and Michigan State in a couple of weeks. If we beat FSU and don't get embarrassed in the other two, then maybe we have something cooking this year.

It's too bad those two early B1G games are against two of the best teams in the league. A lot of things would have to happen in RU's favor to not start 0-2 in conference.
 
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mikefla

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Nov 19, 2012
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I am 100% AOK with being picked DEAD LAST
It makes for a better "Cinderella Story" when we
beat ILL 2x,
NEB 2x
PSU1x
and steal 2
for 7 wins in the BE this season...
 

goru7

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Dec 12, 2005
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The Illinois HC just got there----it's Year 1.

His team at SF Austin 2 years ago was as well coached a unit as you will see. Believe he had a winning percentage there in the 80's

He got to the Tourney last year at Oklahoma State in his first go around there but left as he was underpaid

I thought he was a great hire for the Illini.
I hear what Doug is saying but Doug you have to keep Illinois out of the discussion. BRAD Underwood is now their coach. He is a stud coach unlike Croce before him. I will be surprised if they are not much improved this year. I agree with Digger that he was an excellent hire
 
Apr 8, 2002
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I hear what Doug is saying but Doug you have to keep Illinois out of the discussion. BRAD Underwood is now their coach. He is a stud coach unlike Croce before him. I will be surprised if they are not much improved this year. I agree with Digger that he was an excellent hire
I know Illinois made a great hire, but based off their performance the last few years I was just judging them in the same way how people judge Rutgers. What have you done for me lately? Rutgers made a great hire too.

This brings me back to my original point. Illinois hired a very good coach and get instant credit for it. Rutgers does something similar with Coach Pike and still doesn't get a tenth of the credit. Last year coach Pike put a scare into most coaches of the B1G. Now he's into his 2nd season with better players. He should be even more dangerous for the B1G. Perception is too big of a driving force in society.
 

IMARUFAN

Heisman
Mar 29, 2015
5,734
12,374
93
When it comes to preseason polls that involve Rutgers Football or Basketball, most sports writers and coaches just automatically put Rutgers last and then work up from there.

It's like playing word association with these people.

Just say the 1st thing that pops into your head. Rutgers. Last place!
 

kcg88

Heisman
Aug 11, 2017
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We beat CCSU by four points. Let's not get out over our skis just yet.
 

bowlgoal

Heisman
Jul 20, 2004
12,192
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There are some really impressive coaches in the Big 10. I'm not worried about any preseason rankings. We have one of the impressive coaches I'm talking about. But we are still a little short of competing for one of the top spots if not the championship in the Big 10 and until we are fully stocked with players; who cares where they pick us. I picked us to have 7 Big 10 Wins before the season started but I'm not sure that will happen. I think we might see 5? I hope it's 7, but this league is tough and we are missing the post up game right now. Hopefully the Douc will change that and get us there. I had higher hopes for Sa and Shaq but I just don't know? I see us starting to be a contender in 2019 or 2020.
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,204
12,465
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I can't fault Doug for sticking up for RU.
Need more people in NJ doing the same!
Winning league games changes perception.Nobody that matters really cares about losing programs until it reaches a stage where the head coach is fired.Pikiell and staff give Rutgers the best chance to break the cycle of losing seasons .Until that happens the media won't be impressed as demonstrated in preseason rankings.
 

Russ Wood

Heisman
Oct 12, 2011
94,313
45,143
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Have you watched Indiana this year? They aren't beating any team by 20. In fact, their only win was a 9 point victory over Howard.
I don't know if they'll beat anyone by 20 but, I'm keeping my eye on them for late season improvement.

They're relying heavily on two freshmen and three sophomores, only one of whom caught anyone's imagination during the recruiting process. They're three games into a motion offense that compels movement off the ball, coming from a system that discourage movement off the ball, in lieu of--the apparently mutually exclusive concept--spacing, and they don't really have anyone who can get their own shot.

On defense they'r still learning how to play the packline defense.
 

Scarlet83

Heisman
Feb 4, 2004
9,541
10,700
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We beat CCSU by four points. Let's not get out over our skis just yet.

Yeah, cause we are all wayyyy out over our skis.

This is generally a realistic discussion saying if sports writers looked deeper, they might see that R could finish better than 14th. That’s it. I agree that old perceptions die hard, and winning against good teams OOC and especially in the B1G is needed to change our perception. That doesn’t mean that sports writers can’t do a better job at analyzing teams more thoughtfully.

That said, I believe that Pikiell has us on a path to 6 B1G wins this year (please, no significant injuries).
 

bac2therac

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I know Illinois made a great hire, but based off their performance the last few years I was just judging them in the same way how people judge Rutgers. What have you done for me lately? Rutgers made a great hire too.

This brings me back to my original point. Illinois hired a very good coach and get instant credit for it. Rutgers does something similar with Coach Pike and still doesn't get a tenth of the credit. Last year coach Pike put a scare into most coaches of the B1G. Now he's into his 2nd season with better players. He should be even more dangerous for the B1G. Perception is too big of a driving force in society.


Illinois was going to the NCAA if they didnt lose to Rutgers...they won 8 or 9 league games..not sure which one. Groce brought in a top 25 class for this year even as he was fired, I think they may have lost a player from that. Why would you think that RU would be picked over Illinois when Illinois was bringing in better talent and their coach has had NCAA success
 
Apr 8, 2002
15,492
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Illinois was going to the NCAA if they didnt lose to Rutgers...they won 8 or 9 league games..not sure which one. Groce brought in a top 25 class for this year even as he was fired, I think they may have lost a player from that. Why would you think that RU would be picked over Illinois when Illinois was bringing in better talent and their coach has had NCAA success
I think you miss the whole point of the debate. The preseason polls, without seeing personnel or viewing things closely, just automatically pegged Rutgers for last. I wasn't trying to degrade other schools, but I was trying to make a point how perception overrides reality. In reality you do have some teams like Nebraska that may be much worse than Rutgers.
 

BoroKnight

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Mar 13, 2010
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There is some serious nonsense in this thread. The perception of the program is the fans' fault? Seriously? Have you been asleep for the past decade? We were a full THREE GAMES behind EVERYBODY else in the Big Ten last year. We didn't finish last by accident. It was a methodical season-long performance that earned us last place -- in a year we all saw improvement. Do you really expect the same amount of improvement, and everybody else will regress? Are you seriously judging teams based on two or three games?

Utter nonsense.

We deserve to be picked last. Earned every vote.

That being said, I think we will do better than that. But to rip others -- and fans here -- for the perception of our very recently godawful program is just too absurd to take seriously.
 
Apr 8, 2002
15,492
26,559
113
There is some serious nonsense in this thread. The perception of the program is the fans' fault? Seriously? Have you been asleep for the past decade? We were a full THREE GAMES behind EVERYBODY else in the Big Ten last year. We didn't finish last by accident. It was a methodical season-long performance that earned us last place -- in a year we all saw improvement. Do you really expect the same amount of improvement, and everybody else will regress? Are you seriously judging teams based on two or three games?

Utter nonsense.

We deserve to be picked last. Earned every vote.

That being said, I think we will do better than that. But to rip others -- and fans here -- for the perception of our very recently godawful program is just too absurd to take seriously.
Who rip the fans? And nobody said it was the fans fault. If anything people are being critical of the media for how they just pick teams without even knowing the makeup of them.
 
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RUinFla

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Aug 2, 2001
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Who really cares how people see the B1G before the season? We are the outlier--a team from New Jersey, even east of Maryland. And Maryland has had a more credible program, even winning the national championship a few years back under Gary Williams. So we are going to be dismissed until we start winning games more consistently. Which might not happen until 2019-20. Meanwhile, all the opinion polls and sportswriter musings and a bunch of change will buy you an ice cream sandwich.
TL
 

BigEastPhil

Heisman
Nov 25, 2007
19,153
13,349
66
I don't claim to be an expert in basketball, but the preseason polls that had Nebraska, Illinois and Indiana ahead of Rutgers might have been premature. There is a chance those schools may meet their expectations, but right now they're playing some bad basketball. Can anyone give solid evidence why they were picked to finish ahead of Rutgers? Are they clearly superior to Rutgers or is it more about perception of Rutgers in comparison to a Nebraska, Illinois or Indiana? I need real answers.:cry:
We should beat up on Nebraska. We're probably at par with Illinois; Ohio State and possibly Indiana - games that we should and need to win at home as I believe we play all 4 home this season.