It's that time of year. Any thoughts? Comments?
AP pre-season poll
- Thread starter ScarletteK80
- Start date
Not the first time CVivs had to defy expectations.
RU lost almost their entire team and doesn’t have a head coach. Why would they even be closed to ranked?
because they deserve to.
But can understand why pre-season poll might be skeptical because of who RU lost.
The replacements proving themselves will get RU into the final top 25 and that's what counts
Replacements not to shabby and lost head coach should be found on bench when season starts.
But you do make a good reason ranking not there for pre-season.
for you it's lol, because you only think of the RUWBB team in a bad light and mostly find something to knock the program for.
Occasionally a good word comes when your usual negativity can't be defended if you try tp put the program down.
But that's alright, I think most RUWBB fans know your act and just put it down as a haters will hate type of thing
I'm sorry to say but I agree that - without a look-see - there isn't any particular reason to vote for Rutgers.
That does not mean that there isn't talent, or that they can't become a ranked team, but it is all an unknown now. Largely, you base pre-season polls on comparing a team to the prior year, factor in the personnel changes, an assessment of the prior year's performance and any special factors.
For example, Arizona may have made the Championship game last year, but are ranked 22, based primarily on losing Aari McDonald. Arizona is talented, has a number of "key" players returning (but not the star, duh) and has respectable recruits. If Arizona is #22, no, I suspect Rutgers was not getting any votes - lost not only the "star" but 2 or 3 other key players. Losing a key player by transfer and CVS's time away are "special factors" and are not positive either. Transfers in are good quality, but have not played together yet.
A look at the OOC schedule suggests it will be difficult to get into the top 25 without significant upsets going forward during the season.
That does not mean that there isn't talent, or that they can't become a ranked team, but it is all an unknown now. Largely, you base pre-season polls on comparing a team to the prior year, factor in the personnel changes, an assessment of the prior year's performance and any special factors.
For example, Arizona may have made the Championship game last year, but are ranked 22, based primarily on losing Aari McDonald. Arizona is talented, has a number of "key" players returning (but not the star, duh) and has respectable recruits. If Arizona is #22, no, I suspect Rutgers was not getting any votes - lost not only the "star" but 2 or 3 other key players. Losing a key player by transfer and CVS's time away are "special factors" and are not positive either. Transfers in are good quality, but have not played together yet.
A look at the OOC schedule suggests it will be difficult to get into the top 25 without significant upsets going forward during the season.
I think the top 5 are solid choices to remain there for the entire season. They may swap spots over the course of the season. Although Indy and Iowa will be extremely tough to beat, I don't see both of them staying in the top ten, unless they have added new, immediate-impact talent. I would predict that they will be top 15 teams by season 's end.
Why is Georgia not in the top 25? They were #10 at the end of the season last year. Lost one player but added a couple of McD all-americans to their main roster with seniors returning for xtra year. They should be top 15, top 20 at the least, to start this season.
Ohio State??? Did I miss something? Did they land some big additions to last years roster? They lost their best player, a post player at that, Dorka Juhasz. I know they get their scrappy guard back from injury(can't rem her name), and have another 6-5 foreign post player on the roster. She must be very good for them to be #17.
Michigan is loaded in the post and experienced on the perimeter. That will keep them in the top 10. Mich. St. Has a nice young core that got lots of game experience. They still have N. Clouden.
I think those that vote in these polls go with the obvious to get the top 10. Then it gets a little political. I don't think that they necessarily need to see a team play together before putting them in a high ranking position. Kinda like the Brooklyn Nets. When KD, Kyrie, and James Harden came there, they were the immediate favorites to win the title,...before anyone saw them play a game together. The same applies in this poll. In years where UConn reloads, they will still be ranked in the top 5. It seems to be based on respect for the program, coach, and the incoming players that get added to what's already there.
RUWBB, has to prove itself every year. That respect for the program, and I guess I have to say, for the coach, is missing with the people voting in these polls. Or they must not be impressed with the talent of our players, incoming transfers included. Oh Well!! We just have to prove them wrong.... AGAIN!!!
I think that when you consider our current roster, and the signature style of the program and coach, this team is as deserving as any of those teams ranked in the 20-25 spots. At the least, they should be included in the group of also receiving votes.
Also think that UCLA belongs higher (Top 15) after finishing at #9 last year. I know they lost Onyenuere but they brought in some good players.
Why is Georgia not in the top 25? They were #10 at the end of the season last year. Lost one player but added a couple of McD all-americans to their main roster with seniors returning for xtra year. They should be top 15, top 20 at the least, to start this season.
Ohio State??? Did I miss something? Did they land some big additions to last years roster? They lost their best player, a post player at that, Dorka Juhasz. I know they get their scrappy guard back from injury(can't rem her name), and have another 6-5 foreign post player on the roster. She must be very good for them to be #17.
Michigan is loaded in the post and experienced on the perimeter. That will keep them in the top 10. Mich. St. Has a nice young core that got lots of game experience. They still have N. Clouden.
I think those that vote in these polls go with the obvious to get the top 10. Then it gets a little political. I don't think that they necessarily need to see a team play together before putting them in a high ranking position. Kinda like the Brooklyn Nets. When KD, Kyrie, and James Harden came there, they were the immediate favorites to win the title,...before anyone saw them play a game together. The same applies in this poll. In years where UConn reloads, they will still be ranked in the top 5. It seems to be based on respect for the program, coach, and the incoming players that get added to what's already there.
RUWBB, has to prove itself every year. That respect for the program, and I guess I have to say, for the coach, is missing with the people voting in these polls. Or they must not be impressed with the talent of our players, incoming transfers included. Oh Well!! We just have to prove them wrong.... AGAIN!!!
I think that when you consider our current roster, and the signature style of the program and coach, this team is as deserving as any of those teams ranked in the 20-25 spots. At the least, they should be included in the group of also receiving votes.
Also think that UCLA belongs higher (Top 15) after finishing at #9 last year. I know they lost Onyenuere but they brought in some good players.
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Also, ......Where is Ole Miss??!! Shouldn't they be somewhere in this poll? I would have them in the #20-25 range, also rec votes, at the very least! They may have the Player of the Year in Shakira Austin. Between her and Naliyah Smith for Baylor, she may go #1 in next years draft.
What would make you put them in the poll at this point? They were 4-10 in the SEC last year. And just over .500 over-all. Like Rutgers, they may be very good. But there is no history to back up ranking them.
I have read others mentioning the lack of Georgia. Still, most folks I have seen commenting elsewhere think it isn't wildly bad for a PRESEASON poll. Changes will happen, possibly rapidly, after the season starts.
After reading your post, I said to myself, ....yeah, maybe I am getting a little ahead of myself with Ole Miss. 4-10, barely .500.......What was I thinking?
Then I looked at that poll again. A second look confirms my belief that Ole Miss belongs. I can see falling back from the #20-25 range, but they should be in the also receiving votes.
Ole Miss 15-12 overall ; 4-10(The SEC CONF- arguably THE nation'stoughest)
Oklahoma 12-12 ; 9-8 in the Big 12
Notre Dame 10-10 ; 8-7 ACC during one of their weaker seasons as a conf
To me, the eye test means something. Six of Ole Miss' 10 losses in conf. were to top 20 ranked teams. This team started to get it rolling by February which is when they got their 4 SEC wins and survived to the quarterfinal round of the SEC tourney where they lost to Tenn by 5 pts................Then went on to the NIT championship game where they lost to Rice( don't know what happened there, I didn't see the game)
Oklahoma and Notre Dame don't have a recent history that should place either of them in the poll, if your gonna use that criteria for Ole Miss.
And I would think Rutgers does have the history to get a place in the poll after being ranked for the last 3 or 4 years. Right??? It's a preseason poll, you look at the roster , consider the program and coach, and predict where they rank amongst everybody.
Rutgers and Ole Miss would be above Oklahoma in my book. I need to look into the Dakotas and Missouri State and Belmont more to be able to speak on them.
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I never bet against Vic Schafer. He will probably have Texas somewhere around the top 10 level or higher by season's end.
I would think that UNC and Duke will end up in the top 25 mix once the season starts. Lots of talent being accumulated at both programs.
I would think that UNC and Duke will end up in the top 25 mix once the season starts. Lots of talent being accumulated at both programs.
My last comment - do you know how the poll works? 29 voters give 25 points for first place down to 1 point for 25th place.
Those folks in the also receiving with 10 and even less points - it isn't significant. If you want to yell at someone, find out who the voters are that cover Rutgers (Star Ledger?, NY?, Mel?) and complain they couldn't even vote Rutgers in 25th place.
The votes for teams like Oklahoma and Notre Dame are "aspirational", folks that put them in 25th or slightly above for "hope" or political reasons.
It will all become clear when the season starts.
Those folks in the also receiving with 10 and even less points - it isn't significant. If you want to yell at someone, find out who the voters are that cover Rutgers (Star Ledger?, NY?, Mel?) and complain they couldn't even vote Rutgers in 25th place.
The votes for teams like Oklahoma and Notre Dame are "aspirational", folks that put them in 25th or slightly above for "hope" or political reasons.
It will all become clear when the season starts.
Thank you for explaining the process. And firstly, this is just a fun conversation for me, forgive me if I come across as wanting to yell at someone. It's more excited energy for the upcoming season. I consider myself to be just adding to the thread that ScarletK started. I always enjoy hearing your point of view and always respect it.
As most on here are probably well aware of my feelings on the local media coverage of RUWBB, your explanation is in line with so many points that I have been making over the past few seasons. Everything you're saying above echoes my sentiments on things. I just think that if a voter gives you a point out of 25, it's not insignificant because they would be saying that you are the 25th best, in their eyes. Right?
One, two, or 10 points......it's not a lot, but it is consideration. No points means no consideration. Like you said with the politics. I said the same thing in my first post under this thread. That was the point I was making with mentioning Oklahoma and Notre Dame.
BTW, I think someone may have heard the complaints about lack of media coverage. I believe that the RU Athletic Department is creating a position for a media specialist who will be focusing solely on the RUWBB program. If true, I say, "Thank ....U!" Still need other local media to get on board. Then maybe we get the political nod in the polls. Maybe we get more of our targeted recruits too.
In the end........I'm actually soooo glad that we aren't ranked. It provides that fuel that I think most of us know will serve our team well. The "chip on the shoulder".
And of course......it will all work itself out once the season starts.
It's just fun to give predictions and discuss these polls as a way of channeling the anxious, anticipatory energy some of us have while waiting for Game 1.
Just know that I appreciate and always look forward to the informative nature of your posts. Seems like I may ruffle some feathers on here sometimes, ...it's all just love for the program, never hate.
This pretty much sums it all up. This is for all intents and purposes a new team. A team without face to face contact with their head coach. I can see how there is no one willing to rank them in their top 25, even the local media.
Take care of business on the hardwood and the ranking will come……I never pay attention to rankings prior to mid-Jan
Preseason polls don't really hold a lot of weight with me. To me, it seems like the same criteria is not applied to everyone when it comes to the voting (the politics) I just like pointing those things out.
If you are going to be one of the writers with a vote, you should be knowledgable about the perennial top 30 programs, at least. Local writers should know the local teams very well. I don't think it is impossible to make a prediction on this years RU team if they've researched the incoming talent and have been following NCAA WBB. But if they only know Arella Guirantes and Diamond Johnson when it comes to RUWBB, then yeah, they may not be willing to vote for us this year. With the lack of coverage that our program gets every year by local media, how well do they know the team? The few that do cover us don't seem like big CVS fans. They seem to love writing about her contract.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. A football team can go 1-11,
then 2-10, followed by 3-9 and find themselves getting preseason top 25 consideration the next year, with a new coach,.... Explain that one. Did some voter(s) throw that program a bone? Maybe they want to see the coach do well, and they do their part to help him succeed?? Maybe they respect the coach and trust that with the talent he has(although they haven't played for him yet), they deserve consideration for a Top 25 ranking.
Just saying,... It would be nice if CVS could get some of that ( her teams have been ranked every year over the last three or four years)
But like I said, it's okay. This works out better for our team. Should make them hungrier.
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Pre season polls mean very little to me as well. Only thing they show is how journalists perceive the program from the outside. Right now our team is is seen as a "need to show" versus "perennial power." Let's see how it shakes out.
The team did not finish the season in the top 25 so it's not that big of a slight.
close but no cigar ranking for RU last year
In AP & Coaches top 25 week 15, week 16 seen only in Coaches poll .
But the cigar was a mirage in both final polls and like you said, RU didn't get ranked in top 25.
Losing in the B1G Tourney and then dropping their game in the NCAAs were a good reason for the pollsters to leave them out
That's what I'm saying, our team gets the "need to show" treatment every year. And I mentioned writers looking at perennial Top 30 programs as part of their voting process. I would think we are currently back in this category. Perennial powers would probably be top 10 or top 5 every year. We're not even talking about those.
I just see teams that are pretty much on par with us the last four years, and those teams don't seem to face the same criteria before they may be considered.
Just to be clear, we were in the top 25 after going on the streak until the last poll came out, after we lost to BYU. But still received votes.
Others receiving votes: Rice 63, Northwestern 52, Oregon State 42, Oklahoma State 37, Rutgers 33, South Dakota State 26, Iowa State 23, Delaware 21, BYU 18, Ohio State 17, Stephen F. Austin 9, Ole Miss 4, Michigan State 4, Syracuse 3, Belmont 1, Marquette 1, Virginia Tech 1
Dropped from rankings: Rutgers 23, Ohio State 24, South Dakota State 25
It's not a big slight, but it would not be a stretch if they were to have received consideration either. Other teams get considered with less justification. That's why these polls are nothing but fun to talk about and nothing to take too seriously.
Let's see how this shakes out. But from looking at it from 30,000 feet I am not sure a top 25 ranking is justified. If Rutgers returned many of their key players and they weren't ranked we could have this discussion. Pretty much the entire roster production has turned over and the coach is not with the team. That would be justification for most not to include. I would rather not be ranked at move up in the rankings, than be included in the rankings and lay an egg and be removed.
Agreed. How can you vote for a team you haven’t seen. Tons of talent incoming and returning. Not the first time CVivs started the year off without a vote. Not even sure if they got any preseason respect last year.
I don't have an issue with a lack of votes to start the year. Lots of new pieces to bring together and our coach isn't even working hands-on with the team right now. We will have the chance to earn our place in the polls.
What is your reasoning that Rutgers WBB team with 6-7 new players in 2021-2022 should receive votes in the Poll especially knowing how the AP works. This has absolutely nothing to do with past performance or because Viv is a Hall of Fame coach. Winning is the only way to achieve that and the press works exactly that way. Maybe in the coaches Poll .
not just a HOF coach, but the type of players that transfered in makes me believe RU might have had a shot to be considered an AP top 25 team in some of the pollsters eyes..
Agreed. But entirely speculative. Doesn’t seem like we get much love until the games are being played.
better than the women who transfered out? i dont think so. you build a program of keeping your recruiting jewel not getting one year band aids
players leave by transferring out, graduating or leaving early for the pros
Players transfer in and/or recruited from High Schools.
Sometimes the best player leaves and needs to be replaced , one way or another.
Happens every year and now that the transfer rule has made it easy to leave one program without sitting out , expect RU and many other programs have to replace more talent then before transferring was made so easy.
The talent arriving might just mesh into a team that doesn't need one player to be the offense to win , but have more than one or two that can be relied on when scoring is needed.
Not counting Arella who was due to leave for the WNBA, with the exception of Diamond J, the new transfers are arguably equal if not better than the outgoing transfers.
None have shone to be the elite playmaker that DJ is, but there are seven incoming to four outgoing. All seven will be impact players for us with at least, two or three of them having All-Conference potential.
Diamond was a huge loss, but the others in her class are still here and ready to get their chance. Tim may have to employ the platoon system again to get everyone some time on the floor.
With the new facilities and and highly capable assistant coaches, there is no reason to expect the current players to want to bolt. Of course the new trend seems to be high transfer volume across the board. Just have to control what we can control (as we did this offseason) Everyone is dealing with the same thing.
It's a bitter sweet time. Super excited for tomorrow's game. Extremely sad about the CVS news. Welp,......We press on and hope for the best from all angles.
Was reading some old articles CViv yesterday and apparently Wheeler almost transferred over a position change. Wonder if DJ was similar.