Anybody watching NW/MN

[toby83]

These teams are both really improved

MN's Mason now has this lefty freshman Amir Coffey who can do little bit of everything, he's long, gets to the basket, can handle the ball, and play point forward.

And NWs McIntosh had been struggling apparently but looks great tonight. They have a big man back from a hand injury who is active + cple other guys on perimeter.

These are good teams ,I didn't realize how much they improved.

 

[bac2therac]

they are both likely NCAA participants. Thats why its not just about RU and its what the rest of the league is doing. While the top half may not be as strong and dominant, there really is no difference between teams 4-12 right now....Thats bad news for RU. Unfortunately the winnable games appear less winnable because all the teams near RU have taken a leap forward even Illinois

I am watching Nebby and Iowa, they said that Nebby has 9 freshmen and sophomores and Iowa has 11....thats a huge number...you have to produce right away in this league. No luxury for kids to grow anymore. Jok is the leading scorer in the Big 10 but Iowa is so young to make a NCAA tourney run this year. Nebraska is such a shock right now but I think they will be up and down all year after those two shocking upset wins

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

B1G is young.....and that doesn't bode well for us climbing the ladder.

#afraidofheights

 

[bac2therac]

young and they can score. I asked this question last year for this year, who are we going to pass...schools like PSU and Nwstern have been trying to get out of the bottom for years, the latter did it last year and even though tonight they went down looks like they are out of it again.

These teams have firepower on offense that RU can only dream of. Sure we can play with them in spurts or even pull off an upset, but we are so far away from competing night and night out. Our fans are happy we have spurts to cut the gap to Wisky to 9 before losing by 20. We have one player...Sanders that would get significant minutes on another program. I keep hearing that Eddie recruited well and left a core..not really, the talent differential with everyone else is still ginormous.

 

[bac2therac]

B1G is young.....and that doesn't bode well for us climbing the ladder.

#afraidofheights

my bad I meant that was freshmen and sophomores, not just frosh but the point remains, alot of young players

 

[bac2therac]

Huge win for Little Ricky 70-66 over Nwstern....two big quality road wins already

Nebby and Iowa look like they are going to OT tied at 74 after a Nebby player missed two free throws with 3 seconds to win the game..wow..that after a controversial no call on a Nebby player on Jok that led to the runout and free throws

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

When you take off the Scarlet glasses and really assess the situation it is very depressing.

If you look at kenpom we are 142 and there is nothing between us and the 80-90 range. All the teams that are near the bottom are all remarkable young. Their young players are so much better than ours. Not a knock on Pikiell because of his hire date....our freshman are nice pieces, but not difference makers.

The other 13 programs right now are so far ahead of us. The thought of making the NCAA tournament in the next 4 years is almost silly. I don't know how we can leap frog 6 or 7 programs.

 

[bac2therac]

We need 3 full classes of top 150 players...with 3-4 of them top 100..2018 2019 2020...if so that is our chance in 2021...I know we will be criticized for being too negative but most Rutgers fans fail to look at what the other programs are doing..they have a huge impact

 

[bac2therac]

Nebby outlasts Iowa in 2 OT...whata game...Jok had 34 for Iowa in the losing effort

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Penn State Nebraska Iowa Minnesota northwestern are all programs on the rise with young talent that would be stars at RU.

Indiana Michigan Wisconsin Purdue
OSU MD MSU are great programs with youth

I guess Illinois is our only chance.

 

[Fzacsattac]

young and they can score. I asked this question last year for this year, who are we going to pass...schools like PSU and Nwstern have been trying to get out of the bottom for years, the latter did it last year and even though tonight they went down looks like they are out of it again.

These teams have firepower on offense that RU can only dream of. Sure we can play with them in spurts or even pull off an upset, but we are so far away from competing night and night out. Our fans are happy we have spurts to cut the gap to Wisky to 9 before losing by 20. We have one player...Sanders that would get significant minutes on another program. I keep hearing that Eddie recruited well and left a core..not really, the talent differential with everyone else is still ginormous.

Wow! Whoever said that Eddie recruited well must have their head examined.

 

[Mr_Twister]

I'm guessing that Gophers' coach's father is a great recruiting resource in terms of player evaluation and connections. It will take him a few years to master his Dad's roster management skills. I still laugh thinking that Louisville, not too many years ago, pushed a few scholarship players to non-scholarship status to free up scholarships for fresh blood. Essentially created a roster that exceeded the NCAA scholarship limit. Cold ... but brilliant from a competitive standpoint.

 

[RutgHoops]

When you take off the Scarlet glasses and really assess the situation it is very depressing.

If you look at kenpom we are 142 and there is nothing between us and the 80-90 range. All the teams that are near the bottom are all remarkable young. Their young players are so much better than ours. Not a knock on Pikiell because of his hire date....our freshman are nice pieces, but not difference makers.

The other 13 programs right now are so far ahead of us. The thought of making the NCAA tournament in the next 4 years is almost silly. I don't know how we can leap frog 6 or 7 programs.

Jok averaged 4.4ppg as a frosh. The B1G 2nd leading scorer, Malcolm Hill also scored 4.4 ppg as a frosh. The 5th leading scorer, Tai Webster scored 3.9 ppg as a frosh.

I LOVE this staff. Kids like Thiam and Omoruyi are going to be MUCH better under this group as they progress. I'm excited to see what kids like Baker and Doucore bring. Our '18 class, in my opinion, is going to be real good. Filling gaps with kids like Gettys and Sa and Mensah is what good staffs do when handed a situation like ours.

Pike inherited a group that can't shoot a lick (last in scoring, 2nd to last in FT%, 12th in FG%, last in 3 pt FG%). It is what it is. Yet, we are 3rd in scoring defense, 4th in FG% defense, 4th in rebounding margin, 3rd in steals, and we bust it each and every game....Enjoy the ride. Lamenting the present, in my opinion, is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I hear you, but frosh Jok on this team scores 10+. Roy Marble was playing over him (I trust it was Roy Marble's son and not Roy Marble himself.)

Watching games nightly on BTN is a real eye opener. Especially watching some of these young teams and seeing the impact their freshman are having relative to ours.

Wednesday's game really threw me for a loop. I hated what I saw. Coaching staff's allocation of minutes bothered me the most.

 

[RutgHoops]

I hear you, but frosh Jok on this team scores 10+. Roy Marble was playing over him (I trust it was Roy Marble's son and not Roy Marble himself.)

Watching games nightly on BTN is a real eye opener. Especially watching some of these young teams and seeing the impact their freshman are having relative to ours.

Wednesday's game really threw me for a loop. I hated what I saw. Coaching staff's allocation of minutes bothered me the most.

Definitely Roy Marble, Jr, although it actually being Roy Marble would make me feel young again. :sunglasses:

As you know I also watch a bunch. I see more parity than I do "high level basketball" on BTN to be honest. I think we get to 5 B1G wins. I really do.

I thought Michigan State played one of the five best games I've seen a CBB team play this year. To the point that immediately after the game I put a couple $$ on them to win it all at 50-1. UCLA @ Rupp, Kentucky over UNC in Vegas, Nova's win over Notre Dame in Newark, and UNC dominating Wisconsin in Maui were the only other games I saw a team play at that high a level. I added MSU to my preseason wagers of UL, ND and Duke to win it all (ACC is brutal every night...much better than the B1G in my opinion).

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Time will tell if I am right and that we made them look all world. I am not overly impressed with their guards. Bigs and wings won't get as much quality touches if opposing guards are in the grill of MSU guards.....something that did not occur on Wednesday night, especially by Mr. Sanders.

Tomorrow's game at 1PM MSU vs PSU @Palestra is going to be very interesting to watch. I think it will have a NCAA tournament feel. That place is going to be loud.

 

[RutgHoops]

Didn't realize they were playing at The Palestra. Ever go to a game there? It's great. Really great. I've seen a couple Big 5 games there that were awesome. Took my daughter when Rutgers/Mike Rice played St. Joe's there. Cheesesteaks and Palestra basketball is a great day.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Didn't realize they were playing at The Palestra. Ever go to a game there? It's great. Really great. I've seen a couple Big 5 games there that were awesome. Took my daughter when Rutgers/Mike Rice played St. Joe's there. Cheesesteaks and Palestra basketball is a great day.

A10 tournament for a few years. Was it 1991 when we lost in the 1st round. Love that place.

 

[cRURah]

This thread is depressing. Please delete for the sake of our sanity

 

[RickB113]

As bac said all that matters is recruiting. The rest is just something else to talk about. We need top 150 players and lots of them that is why I don't like this last pick up. He is not getting us anywhere. If he had four years of eligibility maybe. For the next two years we are limited with who he can distribute to. I would rather have saved the ship and hoped to use it on someone who becomes available later.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

That's like telling a sales person if you want to make more money than you are going to have to sell more.

Serious questions.....Why would a Top 150 player even consider Rutgers as an option? What is our batting average of Top 150 player playing like a Top 150 player when at RU?

Do the math...you have 15 programs that probably fill their 4 spots every year with Top 150 players without any effort. That leaves 90 Top 150 guys. Leaving those 15 teams out there are 125 programs right now rated higher than us and probably 60 programs more attractive.

I am sorry, but part of climbing a ladder is getting it 1 rung at a time. Hoping to land a class of TOP 150 players is just plain unrealistic.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

To succeed....staff needs to fish from the 150-300 pond and find players that fit what we are looking to do. The upper 1/3 of the 150-300 pond are "winners" and are so much better than the bottom 1/3 of the Top 150 pond that are "losers" and are paper tigers.

 

[toby83]

As you know I also watch a bunch. I see more parity than I do "high level basketball" on BTN to be honest.

if you watched NW/MN last night you wouldn't say that. both teams were playing at such a high level offensively for the first 10-15 minutes, both cooled down later, but were making contested shots, the extra passes, it was amazing basketball.

check out how this game started, i see TWO missed field goals in first six minutes between both teams. they finished the GAME with 8 and 9 team turnovers respectively. i don't think RU has been even close to single digit turnovers. (maybe against one of those high school teams early on)

side note Amir Coffey is an NBA player. he'll play one more season and then he's done.
1st Half
TIME TEAM PLAY SCORE
19:42 Bryant McIntosh Turnover. 0 - 0
19:27 Jordan Murphy made Layup. 2 - 0
19:08 Scottie Lindsey made Jumper. Assisted by Vic Law. 2 - 2
18:50 Amir Coffey made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Dupree McBrayer. 5 - 2
18:28 Vic Law made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Bryant McIntosh. 5 - 5
18:08 Amir Coffey made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Dupree McBrayer. 8 - 5
17:50 Vic Law missed Jumper. 8 - 5
17:50 Amir Coffey Block. 8 - 5
17:50 Minnesota Defensive Rebound. 8 - 5
17:09 Reggie Lynch made Jumper. Assisted by Nate Mason. 10 - 5
16:53 Foul on Jordan Murphy. 10 - 5
16:53 Dererk Pardon made Free Throw. 10 - 6
16:53 Dererk Pardon missed Free Throw. 10 - 6
16:53 Reggie Lynch Defensive Rebound. 10 - 6
16:32 Nate Mason made Jumper. 12 - 6
16:18 Bryant McIntosh made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Scottie Lindsey. 12 - 9
16:00 Nate Mason missed Three Point Jumper. 12 - 9
16:00 Vic Law Block. 12 - 9
15:58 Dererk Pardon Defensive Rebound. 12 - 9
15:54 Vic Law made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Scottie Lindsey. 12 - 12
15:35 Dupree McBrayer made Jumper. Assisted by Nate Mason. 14 - 12
15:15 Scottie Lindsey made Jumper. Assisted by Bryant McIntosh. 14 - 14
14:52 Jordan Murphy made Jumper. Assisted by Nate Mason. 16 - 14
14:36 Vic Law made Layup. Assisted by Scottie Lindsey. 16 - 16

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Going back 10 years..according to this site 11 Top 150 guys. 3 graduated

Echenique 50...under his rating, not by much. transferred
Rosario 55....definitely under his rating, had tough time getting minutes at a real school. transferred
Chandler 65....
Sanders 75....jury out
Miller 95....way under his rating
Seagears 101....oh my
Mack 112...5'9'' hybrid guard, nice player coming off the bench at a NCAA tourney type of team
Carter 114...transferred, tough to say based on his injury
Foreman 133...transferred
Etou 139....some issues
Lewis 139...

 

[toby83]

Why is that game at the Palestra? Does PSU have a game there every season?

 

[RickB113]

To succeed....staff needs to fish from the 150-300 pond and find players that fit what we are looking to do. The upper 1/3 of the 150-300 pond are "winners" and are so much better than the bottom 1/3 of the Top 150 pond that are "losers" and are paper tigers.

Totally disagree with that statement. Rice landed 5 top 150 guys his first class and he had zero facilities to sell. Rice would have landed an outstanding second class as well had it not been for Murdock and his own temper. If Rice was just a little more stable I fully believe he would have gotten us over the hump. Yes there were some busts in that first class but Carter Mack and Jack were big ten quality players. That is why you need three classes in a row of top 150 players. Two more classes similar to the Mack class and we most likely would have had 8 or 9 high quality big ten players backed up by some role players and then you have something. That is the only way to do this. Won't happen any other way. We have 20+ years of evidence across many many different types of coaches to back up my theory.

Look at seton hall. They only got good under Willard when they started landing studs. And honestly their team would probably not make the tournament in the big ten this season and the reason is they stopped landing enough top 150 players after their big class. Has nothing to do with Willards coaching abilities.

 

[RickB113]

And on the idea of why would someone come here? That's recruiting. That's sales. Outside of tradition we have everything else a player would want;

Facilities - yes (I know they are coming and not in)
Great conference - yes
Tv exposure - yes
Experienced quality staff - yes
Great home court environment - yes when winning
Education - yes
Media market - best in the world.
Playing time - yes.

From there you have to sell the vision.

 

[RutgHoops]

....That is why you need three classes in a row of top 150 players. Two more classes similar to the Mack class and we most likely would have had 8 or 9 high quality big ten players backed up by some role players and then you have something. That is the only way to do this. Won't happen any other way. We have 20+ years of evidence across many many different types of coaches to back up my theory.....

This. Folks thinking there is a quick fix and/or some magic coaching dust that can get us out of our perennial bottom feeder status and not enjoying what Coach P is trying to build here are missing it (imo)

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This. Folks thinking there is a quick fix and/or some magic coaching dust that can get us out of our perennial bottom feeder status and not enjoying what Coach P is trying to build here are missing it (imo)

It is pixie dust thinking you are getting 3 classes in a row of Top 150 players of players that belong in the Top 150 and have their head screwed on right at Rutgers.

It needs to be built before the legit Top 150 come. We don't want the paper tiger top 150.

You have a few characteristics that a Rutgers has to have and you do the best from there. To me the 3 things that they must have....
1. Willingness to defend and get dirty
2. Ability to defend
3. Need to be able to shoot the basketball

 

[RickB113]

It is pixie dust thinking you are getting 3 classes in a row of Top 150 players of players that belong in the Top 150 and have their head screwed on right at Rutgers.

It needs to be built before the legit Top 150 come. We don't want the paper tiger top 150.

You have a few characteristics that a Rutgers has to have and you do the best from there. To me the 3 things that they must have....
1. Willingness to defend and get dirty
2. Ability to defend
3. Need to be able to shoot the basketball

Did you skip over my post that showed Rice was doing it without the facilities Pikiel has to sell. It absolutely can be done with the right coach.

 

[TDIrish27]

IMO for many of the NY/NJ Metropolitan area kids it was easier to sell the Big East than the Big Ten.

I don't think they get all jazzed about playing in Iowa City , Ann Arbor or Columbus like they do about playing in the Garden or at the Pru Center or Wachovia Center.

Kids just have hard time relating to it because it's so new to them.

Even the ACC is an easier sell.

Critical that the Big Ten Tourney gets to the Garden at some point soon.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Did you skip over my post that showed Rice was doing it without the facilities Pikiel has to sell. It absolutely can be done with the right coach.

Were they really Top 150 players?

 

[RUJMM78]

We need 3 full classes of top 150 players...with 3-4 of them top 100..2018 2019 2020...if so that is our chance in 2021...I know we will be criticized for being too negative but most Rutgers fans fail to look at what the other programs are doing..they have a huge impact

Accurate assessment but the problem is what happens the next 4 years?.Rutgers has a 3-38 B1G record which is unbelievable and will be part of the negative recruiting used against them in future recruiting battles.The only way out of this morass is to get lucky like Wenzel did with the two all American transfers from Syracuse which led to the last Rutgers NCAA bid.Gradual improvement won't work because the opponents aren't sitting still allowing Rutgers to catch up.

 

[RickB113]

Were they really Top 150 players?

Yes. Every one of them. They all had multiple power five offers. Three of the five panned out and Randall probably would have been good had he stayed. That is exactly what you need. As I said above two more classes like that where two or three guys work out and the others don't and we would have something. We have been trying to do it your way for 20+ years and haven't come close. That's because it can't be done. Conference is too tough.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

How many scholarships are you going to have?

You are going to average about 4 slots.

Again those top 150 players weren't top 150 players and there was a reason they were picked over and ended up at Rutgers.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Accurate assessment but the problem is what happens the next 4 years?.Rutgers has a 3-38 B1G record which is unbelievable and will be part of the negative recruiting used against them in future recruiting battles.The only way out of this morass is to get lucky like Wenzel did with the two all American transfers from Syracuse which led to the last Rutgers NCAA bid.Gradual improvement won't work because the opponents aren't sitting still allowing Rutgers to catch up.

Unfortunately I agree

 

[RickB113]

How many scholarships are you going to have?

You are going to average about 4 slots.

Again those top 150 players weren't top 150 players and there was a reason they were picked over and ended up at Rutgers.

The guys that don't pan out transfer (pushed out). That is how you have to do it if you want to play on the NCAAs.

 

[RickB113]

Over the next three years you give out 5, 4, 4. Of those ships 3, 2 and 2 have to be solid big ten players. That is. Nice seven man rotation. The other two or three rotation players can be role type players.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If it were that easy We wouldn't have a coach every 4 years.

 

[Deathclutch]

IMO for many of the NY/NJ Metropolitan area kids it was easier to sell the Big East than the Big Ten.

I don't think they get all jazzed about playing in Iowa City , Ann Arbor or Columbus like they do about playing in the Garden or at the Pru Center or Wachovia Center.

Kids just have hard time relating to it because it's so new to them.

Even the ACC is an easier sell.

Critical that the Big Ten Tourney gets to the Garden at some point soon.

We got a couple NY/NJ kids coming here to Minnesota next year, and also have McBrayer who is from Queens. So I don't know if that is necessarily the case.