All Pain, No Gain

bamaEER

Freshman
May 29, 2001
32,435
60
0

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
I think it's starting to sink in that most of the bad things that enter this country enter via ports of entry. He's only heard this 1000 times from all sorts of CBP and other law enforcement officials, mayors in Arizona and Texas and 1000 miles of wall isn't gonna get any wood on the ball.

If this is 100% true, then why did the Obama administration not strengthen the ports? Instead, he forced port resources to be diverted to taking care of illegal aliens instead of keeping drugs out of our country.
 

moe

Junior
May 29, 2001
32,860
282
83
If this is 100% true, then why did the Obama administration not strengthen the ports? Instead, he forced port resources to be diverted to taking care of illegal aliens instead of keeping drugs out of our country.
Okey dokey
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
Okey dokey

Seems like a reasonable response when 1000's of Americans are being killed each year by illegal drugs and Obama decided it was more important to grow his voting base.

You have accused Trump of everything that has ever happened in the US for the last two years, but the illegal drug crisis escalated under Obama and he did nothing to stop it other then say it was an issue during a SOTU address but never followed to take action.
 

moe

Junior
May 29, 2001
32,860
282
83
Seems like a reasonable response when 1000's of Americans are being killed each year by illegal drugs and Obama decided it was more important to grow his voting base.

You have accused Trump of everything that has ever happened in the US for the last two years, but the illegal drug crisis escalated under Obama and he did nothing to stop it other then say it was an issue during a SOTU address but never followed to take action.
You make a lot of claims, feel free to back any of them up.
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
You make a lot of claims, feel free to back any of them up.

Don't need to, I have been to 2 funerals in the last year from drug overdoses by teenagers or 20 somethings. All good families who's kids made bad decisions. My hometown in WV is nothing more than a drug den now and it's hard to go back and see people you grew up wondering around what's left of Main Street.

Prove to me that Obama did anything to address the drug crisis in the 8 years that he was President. Actual Executive action. I will be awaiting your response. You might not agree with how Trump is doing it, but at least he is trying to do something. Give him credit for that.
 

moe

Junior
May 29, 2001
32,860
282
83
Don't need to, I have been to 2 funerals in the last year from drug overdoses by teenagers or 20 somethings. All good families who's kids made bad decisions. My hometown in WV is nothing more than a drug den now and it's hard to go back and see people you grew up wondering around what's left of Main Street.

Prove to me that Obama did anything to address the drug crisis in the 8 years that he was President. Actual Executive action. I will be awaiting your response. You might not agree with how Trump is doing it, but at least he is trying to do something. Give him credit for that.
America has a drug problem?! nothing gets by you does it? all you have is hate for BO, zero facts. Trump is doing nothing other than trying to get re-elected with his wall addons that nobody wanted to include Repubs. Congress wouldn't authorize it when Repubs controlled everything. Back up your own claims, don't look to me to do it for you. Trump is lucky to get what he's getting then he'll foolishly declare a national emergency. It's the gang that couldn't shoot straight.
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
America has a drug problem?! nothing gets by you does it? all you have is hate for BO, zero facts. Trump is doing nothing other than trying to get re-elected with his wall addons that nobody wanted to include Repubs. Congress wouldn't authorize it when Repubs controlled everything. Back up your own claims, don't look to me to do it for you. Trump is lucky to get what he's getting then he'll foolishly declare a national emergency. It's the gang that couldn't shoot straight.

Really, that is what you come back with? Until you prove to me that Obama did anything but play bad golf and cut book deals, don't even respond to any of my posts.

You are the Keaton's Corner of the off topic board. Your attacks are repetitive and childish.
 

moe

Junior
May 29, 2001
32,860
282
83
Really, that is what you come back with? Until you prove to me that Obama did anything but play bad golf and cut book deals, don't even respond to any of my posts.

You are the Keaton's Corner of the off topic board. Your attacks are repetitive and childish.
Triggered. All I did was ask you to back up your claims and you can't do it. You've got nothing.
 

boomerwv

Freshman
Jan 16, 2008
9,988
79
48
Really, that is what you come back with? Until you prove to me that Obama did anything but play bad golf and cut book deals, don't even respond to any of my posts.

You are the Keaton's Corner of the off topic board. Your attacks are repetitive and childish.

If you think you can even begin to address the drug epidemic from the supply side then you just dont know the issue enough to talk about it.

You could totally seal the border and the epidemic would be just as bad. As long as there is high demand, the drugs will find their way to the users.
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
If you think you can even begin to address the drug epidemic from the supply side then you just dont know the issue enough to talk about it.

You could totally seal the border and the epidemic would be just as bad. As long as there is high demand, the drugs will find their way to the users.

Really, then legalize it all and start free treatment programs. Problem is, we already have free treatment programs. If you think that limiting the flow of drugs will not have a direct impact on society, you are mistaken. Heroin is less than $10 a dose, Meth is $55 a gram, Teenagers can afford these drugs. If you increase the price, you will limit the market. My point was that Obama totally ignored the drug epidemic and now it so bad, it will be hard to reign it back in.

If you remember, Heroin was a major inner-city epidemic in the 60's and 70's and they cracked down on it hard and its usage was curtailed. On a far out thought, cigarette usage is at an all time low and it's at its highest price in history? Correlation?

By legalizing Pot, do you think that drug cartels are switching to more addictive, easier drugs to smuggle in or less?
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
Thats funny. Nice one.

He did this in June of 2016! The last months of his administration! Now you can find another funny picture to play down this epidemic. And he is focusing on curing addiction, how's that working for us?


Obama announces new moves to fight opioid and heroin abuse epidemic











  • [paste:font size="5"]
$1.1 billion he proposed last month.
Overdose deaths from opioids -- drugs that include heroin as well as prescription drugs like oxycodone and hydrocodone -- continue to be a leading cause of unintentional death for Americans, rising 14% from 2013 to 2014. Every 19 minutes someone dies from a drug overdose.


Medication-assisted treatment with drugs like methadone and buprenorphine is a key component of the administration's attack on the opioid epidemic. These drugs are used in conjunction with behavioral treatment to help manage an addict's recovery and ease withdrawal from opioid drugs.


Heroin-related overdose deaths quadruple since 2002

In a call to reporters, Michael Botticelli, director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, said, "Expanding access to medication-assisted treatment for opioid-use disorders has been a top priority for this administration. Research clearly shows that this approach, when combined with behavioral therapies, is more effective at sustaining recovery and preventing overdose."
Some critics are concerned that drugs like methadone or buprenorphine could be diverted, or that their use could lead to further addiction.
However, Caleb Banta-Green says we can't ignore their success. "Buprenorphine and methadone cuts mortality rates (of addicts) in half. ... The fundamental line is that we need to keep people alive," said Banta-Green, a senior research scientist at the Alcohol and Drug Abuse Institute at the University of Washington.
Expanding treatment
Currently, physicians are limited by law to prescribing buprenorphine to just 100 patients per doctor. The White House is increasing that cap to 200 patients per doctor.
But there's also a limited number of doctors around the country eligible to prescribe the drug, just about 30,000.
Last October, states and private sector groups proposed to double the number of buprenorphine prescribing physicians over the next three years. So far, 2,200 additional physicians have committed to complete training in buprenorphine prescribing, the White House said.
Banta-Green said expanding the number of doctors is key in the fight against an epidemic that is hitting more and more in rural and suburban areas, where access to treatment is limited. "You have to push out care to many more places," he said.
Additional efforts to fight epidemic
In addition to upping the patient limit, the White House also announced an additional $11 million to go toward state efforts to expand medication-assisted treatment programs, as well as another $94 million in new funding for treatment services to 271 community health centers across the country.
On top of expanding access to MAT, the White House announced other initiatives:
  • providing an additional $11 million to increase access to naloxone, the opioid overdose reversal drug.
  • establishing a Mental Health and Substance Use Disorder Parity Task Force.
  • ensuring that mental health and substance use benefits are offered as medical and surgical benefits are for those enrolled in Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program.
  • a $7 million initiative by the Department of Justice toward policing and investigating heroin distribution.
  • guidance from the Department of Health and Human Services for federally funded needle exchange programs.
Public health experts said they were pleased to see the White House attention to community health centers and needle exchange programs. "We've seen these programs at the front lines of overdose death, bringing people to drug treatment, and addressing the risk of hepatitis C and HIV," said Daniel Raymond, policy director for the Harm Reduction Coalition, an advocacy group working to mitigate the effects of illegal drug use on people and communities.
Banta-Green said the focus on community health centers was key because they are more likely to be access points for continuous, ongoing addiction care, instead of a hospital or jail.
Obama to speak about opioids
What may have the the most lasting effort, Raymond said, is the President's address at the National Rx Drug Abuse & Heroin Summit in Atlanta on Tuesday. "That sends a powerful signal," said Raymond.
Obama will be taking part in a panel moderated by CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
We've been reporting on dangers of opioids for years. @POTUS invited me to moderate a panel on the issue tomorrow... pic.twitter.com/3GUhLOmeof

— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (@drsanjaygupta) March 28, 2016
Over the past month, federal agencies have been aggressive in implementing new strategies to help fight the epidemic. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued new opioid prescribing guidelines, stating plainly that opioids were not first-line therapies. The Food and Drug Administration issued new requirements that immediate-release, or fast-acting, opioids must carry "black box" warning labels. The FDA is also encouraging abuse-resistant formulations of generic opioids. Generics make up 90% of the market, the FDA said.






  • [paste:font size="5"]

One man's road from heroin to hope 08:21
Banta-Green says he's been encouraged by the administration's efforts, but he said a key element was missing -- guidance and training on how doctors should address these issues with their patients. "This is a lot of attempt to build supply and capacity of services, which is great ... but it is important that we create tools about these difficult conversations for clinicians."
Many hope that Obama's addressing these issues can help change the stigma attached to addiction and treatment.
'Long overdue'[/paste:font]
"Coming to the summit, he's coming to an audience of over 1,000 people who are not going to be patting him on the back or paying lip service at all. They are anxious for actions and solutions. I think his willingness to come is more than symbolic. We should expect a lot more to see in his final year of his administration, and some of it is long overdue," Raymond said.
Raymond likened the fight against the opioid epidemic to pushing a boulder up a hill. "There are signs that we are getting a handle on the prescription opioid problem, but over the past few years the heroin issue has gotten worse. Now that we're taking more action on heroin, now we're seeing illicit fentanyl get worse. The problem is spiraling," he said.
"We had an over-reliance on prescription painkillers. We're going to be paying for the original sins for many years to come. And the problem (that) could have gotten under control earlier is going to be affecting a whole generation," Raymond said.
 

moe

Junior
May 29, 2001
32,860
282
83
He did this in June of 2016! The last months of his administration! Now you can find another funny picture to play down this epidemic. And he is focusing on curing addiction, how's that working for us?


Obama announces new moves to fight opioid and heroin abuse epidemic











  • [paste:font size="5"]
$1.1 billion he proposed last month.
Overdose deaths from opioids -- drugs that include heroin as well as prescription drugs like oxycodone and hydrocodone -- continue to be a leading cause of unintentional death for Americans, rising 14% from 2013 to 2014. Every 19 minutes someone dies from a drug overdose.


Medication-assisted treatment with drugs like methadone and buprenorphine is a key component of the administration's attack on the opioid epidemic. These drugs are used in conjunction with behavioral treatment to help manage an addict's recovery and ease withdrawal from opioid drugs.


Heroin-related overdose deaths quadruple since 2002

In a call to reporters, Michael Botticelli, director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, said, "Expanding access to medication-assisted treatment for opioid-use disorders has been a top priority for this administration. Research clearly shows that this approach, when combined with behavioral therapies, is more effective at sustaining recovery and preventing overdose."
Some critics are concerned that drugs like methadone or buprenorphine could be diverted, or that their use could lead to further addiction.
However, Caleb Banta-Green says we can't ignore their success. "Buprenorphine and methadone cuts mortality rates (of addicts) in half. ... The fundamental line is that we need to keep people alive," said Banta-Green, a senior research scientist at the Alcohol and Drug Abuse Institute at the University of Washington.
Expanding treatment
Currently, physicians are limited by law to prescribing buprenorphine to just 100 patients per doctor. The White House is increasing that cap to 200 patients per doctor.
But there's also a limited number of doctors around the country eligible to prescribe the drug, just about 30,000.
Last October, states and private sector groups proposed to double the number of buprenorphine prescribing physicians over the next three years. So far, 2,200 additional physicians have committed to complete training in buprenorphine prescribing, the White House said.
Banta-Green said expanding the number of doctors is key in the fight against an epidemic that is hitting more and more in rural and suburban areas, where access to treatment is limited. "You have to push out care to many more places," he said.
Additional efforts to fight epidemic
In addition to upping the patient limit, the White House also announced an additional $11 million to go toward state efforts to expand medication-assisted treatment programs, as well as another $94 million in new funding for treatment services to 271 community health centers across the country.
On top of expanding access to MAT, the White House announced other initiatives:
  • providing an additional $11 million to increase access to naloxone, the opioid overdose reversal drug.
  • establishing a Mental Health and Substance Use Disorder Parity Task Force.
  • ensuring that mental health and substance use benefits are offered as medical and surgical benefits are for those enrolled in Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program.
  • a $7 million initiative by the Department of Justice toward policing and investigating heroin distribution.
  • guidance from the Department of Health and Human Services for federally funded needle exchange programs.
Public health experts said they were pleased to see the White House attention to community health centers and needle exchange programs. "We've seen these programs at the front lines of overdose death, bringing people to drug treatment, and addressing the risk of hepatitis C and HIV," said Daniel Raymond, policy director for the Harm Reduction Coalition, an advocacy group working to mitigate the effects of illegal drug use on people and communities.
Banta-Green said the focus on community health centers was key because they are more likely to be access points for continuous, ongoing addiction care, instead of a hospital or jail.
Obama to speak about opioids
What may have the the most lasting effort, Raymond said, is the President's address at the National Rx Drug Abuse & Heroin Summit in Atlanta on Tuesday. "That sends a powerful signal," said Raymond.
Obama will be taking part in a panel moderated by CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
We've been reporting on dangers of opioids for years. @POTUS invited me to moderate a panel on the issue tomorrow... pic.twitter.com/3GUhLOmeof

— Dr. Sanjay Gupta (@drsanjaygupta) March 28, 2016
Over the past month, federal agencies have been aggressive in implementing new strategies to help fight the epidemic. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued new opioid prescribing guidelines, stating plainly that opioids were not first-line therapies. The Food and Drug Administration issued new requirements that immediate-release, or fast-acting, opioids must carry "black box" warning labels. The FDA is also encouraging abuse-resistant formulations of generic opioids. Generics make up 90% of the market, the FDA said.






  • [paste:font size="5"]

One man's road from heroin to hope 08:21
Banta-Green says he's been encouraged by the administration's efforts, but he said a key element was missing -- guidance and training on how doctors should address these issues with their patients. "This is a lot of attempt to build supply and capacity of services, which is great ... but it is important that we create tools about these difficult conversations for clinicians."
Many hope that Obama's addressing these issues can help change the stigma attached to addiction and treatment.
'Long overdue'[/paste:font]
"Coming to the summit, he's coming to an audience of over 1,000 people who are not going to be patting him on the back or paying lip service at all. They are anxious for actions and solutions. I think his willingness to come is more than symbolic. We should expect a lot more to see in his final year of his administration, and some of it is long overdue," Raymond said.
Raymond likened the fight against the opioid epidemic to pushing a boulder up a hill. "There are signs that we are getting a handle on the prescription opioid problem, but over the past few years the heroin issue has gotten worse. Now that we're taking more action on heroin, now we're seeing illicit fentanyl get worse. The problem is spiraling," he said.
"We had an over-reliance on prescription painkillers. We're going to be paying for the original sins for many years to come. And the problem (that) could have gotten under control earlier is going to be affecting a whole generation," Raymond said.
Ever heard of OxyContin? I guess that's BO's fault too. I'm pretty sure that the peak of getting OCs prescribed has passed and it's harder to get pain pills now which is a reason that people turned to street heroin so now everyone is OD'ing. Drug use in our country is a complex issue that all the southern border fence in the world is not going to have much if any effect on imo. Drug dealers are masters at getting their product into the hands of eager users. Helping users get treatment for their addictions is a great idea, not sure why you wouldn't support that.

 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
Ever heard of OxyContin? I guess that's BO's fault too. I'm pretty sure that the peak of getting OCs prescribed has passed and it's harder to get pain pills now which is a reason that people turned to street heroin so now everyone is OD'ing. Drug use in our country is a complex issue that all the southern border fence in the world is not going to have much if any effect on imo. Drug dealers are masters at getting their product into the hands of eager users. Helping users get treatment for their addictions is a great idea, not sure why you wouldn't support that.

Let's talk about Rx drug abuse. I worked for a company (23 years) that sold Fentanyl and other addictive drugs and today is one the largest producer's of opioids in the WORLD! By the way, you would never know this because they do this overseas with a company name not associated with the parent company.

I sold narcotics/pain meds in KY in the early 2000's. Clinton was the President. My whole sales pitch was to talk about the 5th vital sign, a federal program launched by CMS. The premise was that pain was being under treated and when checking a patients physical status, heart rate, BP, O2 levels, etc, you had to evaluate their pain. If they responded that they were in pain, the medical provider HAD to adequately treat that pain.

If they refused, CMS could withhold additional monies from the physician or hospital. It could amount to up 2% of the total reimbursement from the Federal Gov. A hospital works on a 3-5% profit margin, so this was big money.

I sold a drug called tramadol which at the time was a non-scheduled pain reliever (It's now a schedule 2 drug in most states). Other's in my company sold Fentanyl and other narcotics, and we never crossed paths. My pitch was to tell the ED doc that when they suspected that a patient was a drug seeker they could start them on tramadol and if needed move onto opioids. It worked great for about 6 months. Then, the patients started telling the physicians that they were allergic to Tramadol and needed opioids. The physician had to give it to them. We met with local law enforcement because of this issue as they were finding tramadol pills mixed with other Rx opioids when they busted dealers or users. While they agreed that tramadol was not the drug they were after, it is well known that Tramadol is metabolized by the same receptors as opioids and when used in conjunction with other opioids it potentiated their buzz.

This, to me, and many others was the start of the Rx Drug problem. Who's to blame, well, the Federal Gov. ( Executive and Legislative branches, as both supported the 5th vital sign and championed that it was enacted), the pharma. companies, lobbyist's were very effective in getting the federal gov. to make it a federal issue. Those two share the majority of the blame. Physicans and Pharmacists are next. They went along with the muse.

After a couple of promotions, I managed a team that sold Fentanyl in WV. I had to fly to Charleston because a couple of kids died of an overdose that included fentanyl. The investigation uncovered that the kids visited their grandmother who had cancer, they stole her fentanyl patches and figured out that if they froze the patch the fentanyl would crystalize on the top of the patch. They froze them, cut them open and scraped off the fentanyl and injected it. They died with the syringes in arms. That was a tough day for everyone. My company spent millions trying to make it a safe alternative for hospice patients to ease their pain at the end of life. They never thought that anyone would figure out that they could freeze it.