Q of the Week: How will you define success of the expanded IHSA state football playoff system

Edgytim · Thursday at 10:45 AM

I know many of you are already set to kill it after one season and that's cool I get it and in many ways I agree.

But overall how would you define success for the expanded playoff system? Again I'm very interested to know your thoughts here.

SiuCubFan8 · Thursday at 11:20 AM

This is the way I have looked at it.
16 teams make the playoffs in each class and get a bye.
32 remaining teams are in a "play in" round to fill the remaining 16 spots.
Then we have the same old 32 team bracket.
We will get much the same blowouts in all rounds including championship games.
Maybe we see some more deserving teams get in to the 32 team round than years past, that we have to wait and see.

ramblinman reborn · Thursday at 11:21 AM

Edgytim said:
I know many of you are already set to kill it after one season and that's cool I get it and in many ways I agree.

But overall how would you define success for the expanded playoff system? Again I'm very interested to know your thoughts here.

Hmmmm...very interesting question. You're asking me to take what I think is a lemon and turn it into lemonade.

The extra week for schools receiving a bye is more time to prepare and perhaps add a new play or two to the playbook. Most importantly, it is an opportunity for those players who are banged up to rest, recover, rehab and generally do whatever they need to do to be as healthy as possible for when their playoffs begin.

For those schools who won't be receiving a bye, it's a chance to lengthen their season and have one more week of practice and one more game. The benefits of that for most of those first round schools may well be felt in the next year as those underclassmen will have an extra week that they normally wouldn't have had.

Other than playoff revenue, I think it is pretty much impossible to establish metrics to measure the success (or lack thereof) of the expanded playoffs.

AwGabJazz · Thursday at 11:44 AM

ramblinman reborn said:
Hmmmm...very interesting question. You're asking me to take what I think is a lemon and turn it into lemonade.

The extra week for schools receiving a bye is more time to prepare and perhaps add a new play or two to the playbook. Most importantly, it is an opportunity for those players who are banged up to rest, recover, rehab and generally do whatever they need to do to be as healthy as possible for when their playoffs begin.

For those schools who won't be receiving a bye, it's a chance to lengthen their season and have one more week of practice and one more game. The benefits of that for most of those first round schools may well be felt in the next year as those underclassmen will have an extra week that they normally wouldn't have had.

Other than playoff revenue, I think it is pretty much impossible to establish metrics to measure the success (or lack thereof) of the expanded playoffs.

Not sure if a BYE in High School is that beneficial. Not having real game action in 2 weeks could hurt a team. Not like NFL where it can certainly help and get injured people back, in High School it could make teams come out flat and not as physically prepared. Just my opinion....

SiuCubFan8 · Thursday at 11:45 AM

AwGabJazz said:
Not sure if a BYE in High School is that beneficial. Not having real game action in 2 weeks could hurt a team. Not like NFL where it can certainly help and get injured people back, in High School it could make teams come out flat and not as physically prepared. Just my opinion....

I'm confused, HS kids get banged up, NFL teams come out flat after a bye week.....

Colin2299 · Thursday at 11:49 AM

If the 32 team format average margin of defeat is improved from last years

4Afan · Thursday at 11:51 AM

I think that's a question for the teams that will make it this year that previously wouldn't have made the playoffs. Ask the leadership of those 4-5, 3-6, and 2-7 teams that made the playoffs feel that the extra game was worth it to their coaches, players, and fans.

If a 2-7 team hangs with a 5-4 team in the opening round but still loses, is that playoff experience worth it for their kids?

McCaravan · Thursday at 11:59 AM

I think it's going to be another round at the CCL punching bag as some 3-6 CCL team is going to get matched up with a 7-2 public team and if they win, the separation talks will happen a week earlier then they normally do.

johnndoe · Thursday at 12:08 PM

Colin2299 said:
If the 32 team format average margin of defeat is improved from last years

One factor may actually INCREASE the margin in the Round of 32 games. The seeded teams waiting will know their possible opponent with the chance to personally scout with the whole staff the play-in game feeding in to their bracket. Previously, both competing teams in the Round of 32 were flying blindly equally.

ramblinman reborn · Thursday at 1:50 PM

C

AwGabJazz said:
Not sure if a BYE in High School is that beneficial. Not having real game action in 2 weeks could hurt a team. Not like NFL where it can certainly help and get injured people back, in High School it could make teams come out flat and not as physically prepared. Just my opinion....

Yes, I thought of that, and there is probably some truth to it. Then I also thought of teams at the end of the regular season that might be banged up and can use the week off to become healthier. Certainly, there's truth in that too.

ramblinman reborn · Thursday at 1:53 PM

Colin2299 said:
If the 32 team format average margin of defeat is improved from last years

Good metric. However, with 3-6 teams qualifying, it's not likely to happen.

ramblinman reborn · Thursday at 1:56 PM

McCaravan said:
I think it's going to be another round at the CCL punching bag as some 3-6 CCL team is going to get matched up with a 7-2 public team and if they win, the separation talks will happen a week earlier then they normally do.

And the whining from those 7-2 public schools will claim they would have run the table if it hadn't been for that 3-6 private all-star team.

Cross Bones · Thursday at 2:34 PM

ramblinman reborn said:
And the whining from those 7-2 public schools will claim they would have run the table if it hadn't been for that 3-6 private all-star team.

Not if they place those guys in the proper class. They'd get stomped out like theyre supposed to be.

Quags22 · Thursday at 2:47 PM

The only way this is a success, is if it has the ability to grow the game of football in programs that have not been successful.

That maybe can come from schools like Joliet Central, which has only made the playoffs once or just a few times. Or for schools that have qualified for the playoffs in the past, but haven't hosted a playoff game in a long time or even ever. Add in a school that gets its first playoff.

All of those could be huge boosts to sluggish programs all over the state.

If schools across the state, especially those that fall into those above categories don't build off the momentum, that this whole thing is a giant whiff.

SouthofI80Fan · Thursday at 7:31 PM

Well, it was supposed to improve scheduling with the hope that teams wouldn't dodge games to help their record. Maybe it's too soon to to tell, but that so far has been a failure.

As mentioned, maybe it helps grow some programs and improve their numbers because they get a "taste of success" but they won't be seen until next August.

MsDavis10 · Thursday at 8:47 PM

Many teams scheduled more competitive than usual non-con games due to the new playoff rules where wins don’t matter. This has caused a handful of good teams to currently be slightly above, on, or below the .500 line. The CCL, for example, has a ton of teams that this board think can do some real damage in the playoffs, even though they currently have 2, 3, or 4 wins.

I believe we will have a few instances of two very good teams with bad records matching up in the “play-in” round. Screwed by the draw. We will also having some very bad 2 win teams facing off vs very bad 5 or 6 win teams in the “play-in” round. Luck of the draw.

dwc25 · Friday at 10:13 AM

4Afan said:
I think that's a question for the teams that will make it this year that previously wouldn't have made the playoffs. Ask the leadership of those 4-5, 3-6, and 2-7 teams that made the playoffs feel that the extra game was worth it to their coaches, players, and fans.

If a 2-7 team hangs with a 5-4 team in the opening round but still loses, is that playoff experience worth it for their kids?

If they are playing a bunch of underclassment who will benefit from the experience, probably yes. If it's a smaller school, where a few players are also playing basketball, they might be better off just getting on with their next sport.

Kevin JCHS 1981 · Friday at 11:00 AM

Success? Devils Advocate:

1) If all 48 teams get a big trophy for their case, engraved with the level of accomplishment. And a HUGE banner for their Gym.

2) There are NO forfeits in the 1st 2 rounds by teams that normally would not have gotten in.

OnVikings! · Friday at 12:22 PM

Extra real game playing time for a young inexperienced team is always good for future developnment. The prep bowl playoffs have proven this in the past (This year's Iggy squad is the most recent example). Unfortunately, the real success of the new system may not even be known until we see how it impacts some of next year's teams, at which point the new system may already be dead and buried.

For everyone predicting blowouts in the first round, here is a list of CCL squads that may now be playoff eligible while they may not have been under the old system: St. Francis, Nazareth, Carmel, Marmion, Benet, Leo, Marian Catholic, DePaul Prep, St. Laurence. If some of you don't think some, or even most, of these teams can knock off a 5-4/6-3/7-2 non-CCL opponent in the first round, then you may be in for a surprise. I think a few of these teams can even make deep runs depending on how the seedings shake out.

I see pros and cons to the new system, but at the end of the day, in every other IHSA sport, everyone gets a seat at the table come playoff time. Why should football be any different?

RB_RocketFan · Friday at 12:52 PM

SouthofI80Fan said:
Well, it was supposed to improve scheduling with the hope that teams wouldn't dodge games to help their record. Maybe it's too soon to to tell, but that so far has been a failure.

As mentioned, maybe it helps grow some programs and improve their numbers because they get a "taste of success" but they won't be seen until next August.

This was supposed to help the scheduling issues. How many years would this need to be in place to see if that really happens?

Blacknight36 · Friday at 1:41 PM

I'm going to do something crazy and wait until it actually plays out before passing judgement.

Illinifan1971 · Friday at 2:23 PM

If no one forfeits i think it will be a success, whats stopping a kid on a 2 win team from just sitting out and focusing on their next sport,
i know its an extreme compare, but you see it now with bowl games in ncaa, guys sitting out to transfer….wont be surprised if it happens to players on 2 or 3 win teams.

SiuCubFan8 · Friday at 2:26 PM

Illinifan1971 said:
If no one forfeits i think it will be a success, whats stopping a kid on a 2 win team from just sitting out and focusing on their next sport,
i know its an extreme compare, but you see it now with bowl games in ncaa, guys sitting out to transfer….wont be surprised if it happens to players on 2 or 3 win teams.

If it happens it happens, I think that would be an outlier but we will see.

Wittymoniker1 · Friday at 3:26 PM

MsDavis10 said:
Many teams scheduled more competitive than usual non-con games due to the new playoff rules where wins don’t matter. This has caused a handful of good teams to currently be slightly above, on, or below the .500 line. The CCL, for example, has a ton of teams that this board think can do some real damage in the playoffs, even though they currently have 2, 3, or 4 wins.

I believe we will have a few instances of two very good teams with bad records matching up in the “play-in” round. Screwed by the draw. We will also having some very bad 2 win teams facing off vs very bad 5 or 6 win teams in the “play-in” round. Luck of the draw.

I agree with this. Let's see how it plays out, but I love the fact Rita scheduled both PC and GBW knowing they would still make the playoffs.

Yes, if you play in a tough conference and you need 5 wins, I am all for scheduling "weaker" teams. However, with this format, you can schedule some good games against opponents you normally do not see.

SiuCubFan8 · Friday at 4:57 PM

Wittymoniker1 said:
I agree with this. Let's see how it plays out, but I love the fact Rita scheduled both PC and GBW knowing they would still make the playoffs.

Yes, if you play in a tough conference and you need 5 wins, I am all for scheduling "weaker" teams. However, with this format, you can schedule some good games against opponents you normally do not see.

Yes but I think there is hesitation on next years schedules with rumblings this could get voted on again. If this is the norm moving forward I think you could see more non-con matchups, hopefully at least.

Cross Bones · Friday at 5:18 PM

I dont think we've seen the effect to scheduling at all as most teams likely had their schedule done when the new playoffs vote passed. We probably need two more years to visualize how it would be.

oldfan123 · Friday at 6:53 PM

I love the expanded playoffs. Many teams with losing records will be more competitive than ones with winning records. So here they get a chance

johnndoe · Saturday at 9:13 AM

This I will tell you since witnessing it now unfolding. A team taking a pounding in the late weeks of the regular season may not have the appetite for another game after qualifying with just 2 (or 3 wins). Enough may be enough following Week 9, particularly if that is another beat-down.

Kevin JCHS 1981 · Saturday at 9:55 AM

johnndoe said:
This I will tell you since witnessing it now unfolding. A team taking a pounding in the late weeks of the regular season may not have the appetite for another game after qualifying with just 2 (or 3 wins). Enough may be enough following Week 9, particularly if that is another beat-down.

That is basically what I was trying to say with my point #2

Kevin JCHS 1981 said:
Success? Devils Advocate:

1) If all 48 teams get a big trophy for their case, engraved with the level of accomplishment. And a HUGE banner for their Gym.

2) There are NO forfeits in the 1st 2 rounds by teams that normally would not have gotten in.

It will be a bad look for the IHSA if there ends up being several Play-In round forfeits.

Colin2299 · Saturday at 12:18 PM

ramblinman reborn said:
Good metric. However, with 3-6 teams qualifying, it's not likely to happen.

Sure it will. 3-6 team can be better than a 7-2 CPS team and will provide a closer matchup vs the 9-0 team.

Colin2299 · Saturday at 12:20 PM

Any answers to the original question that are measurable?

Wassup13_rivals219252 · Saturday at 12:29 PM

I say this new system is better if the free message board posters get a % kickback of the revenue of all the extra games being played in this playoff season.

Otherwise they are wasting a week of our time. Next time put all those teams over 32 teams per bracket in their own NIT tourney.

4Afan · Saturday at 12:36 PM

Wassup13_rivals219252 said:
I say this new system is better if the free message board posters get a % kickback of the revenue of all the extra games being played in this playoff season.

Otherwise they are wasting a week of our time. Next time put all those teams over 32 teams per bracket in their own NIT tourney.

If you're against the new playoff format that's fine, I am too, but at least make sense when bashing it. This is at least the 3rd or 4th post you've made that makes zero sense.

If you feel it's going to be such a waste of time then don't watch any of the opening round games and don't post at all that week. Boom! No more wasted week for you.

Wassup13_rivals219252 · Saturday at 1:55 PM

4Afan said:
If you're against the new playoff format that's fine, I am too, but at least make sense when bashing it. This is at least the 3rd or 4th post you've made that makes zero sense.

If you feel it's going to be such a waste of time then don't watch any of the opening round games and don't post at all that week. Boom! No more wasted week for you.

4a,

Yes I went overboard on the replies. Its just a subject that irks me but I feel like each time I did give an alternative that would satisfy everybody.

We dont play an extra week, ihsa makes more $$, as many teams play in the playoffs as they want. So it's beautiful for everybody.

Basically keep the same number of teams in the regular playoffs as last year and any additional teams can opt into a separate NIT Playoffs of their own.

HuskieFan2020 · Saturday at 4:26 PM

I think it's certainly going to be intriguing to see how everything plays out, which we will start to see in two weeks time. To me, I haven't even gotten super hung up on the W-L records of teams this year. For example, Naperville North is 7-1 going into week 9. However, four of those seven wins are against teams with losing records (Metea, Waubonsie, Neuqua, and DeKalb).

Everyone wants to complain about the teams with losing records getting in, but how about we look at some of these teams who are going to get a first round bye, some of which play in a cakewalk of a conference, beat everyone, and then end up getting bounced early on?

The reality is that the regular season record doesn't matter when the playoffs begin because a powerhouse like Naperville North hasn't won a playoff game since like 2012 or something.

Or how about we talk about a conference like the West Suburban, which is so lopsided, and a school like Downers South, not a ton of success in terms of deep runs in the playoffs could get a bye, host a playoff game, or both because they are simply the higher seed? If DGS had to play Glenbard West, York, and Lyons, then they aren't going to get the bye or host in the first round. And guess what, all three of the schools mentioned are in the same conference, just a different division.

But wait, I'm not done yet. You have teams like the three Valley schools listed above, who have been way more competitive compared to years past and while all three could make the playoffs with losing records, they will still put up a fight and make for an entertaining game, bringing in a true playoff atmosphere.

The point is, maybe we need to stop getting too fixated on the regular season W-L records and let the entire process play out. There will be blowouts that happen but the experience will be good for the student athletes/teams who traditionally, haven't had a chance at making into the postseason.

Wassup13_rivals219252 · Saturday at 6:54 PM

I found the everybody gets a trophy thread.

Good riddins.

Wassup13_rivals219252 · Saturday at 6:58 PM

HuskieFan2020 said:
The point is, maybe we need to stop getting too fixated on the regular season W-L records and let the entire process play out. There will be blowouts that happen but the experience will be good for the student athletes/teams who traditionally, haven't had a chance at making into the postseason.

So why then do we even need a regular season if W / L records dont matter?

Let's just start the playoffs in August and every team is in it.

HuskieFan2020 · Saturday at 7:20 PM

Wassup13_rivals219252 said:
So why then do we even need a regular season if W / L records dont matter?

Let's just start the playoffs in August and every team is in it.

Because you do need some sort of competition before the postseason. We just need to accept that the system isn't perfect and that while we can complain about teams with losing records getting in, more competition is good for everyone.

Plus the IHSA is non-profit organization and so they'll make a lot of money off of this.

Wassup13_rivals219252 · Saturday at 7:39 PM

HuskieFan2020 said:
Because you do need some sort of competition before the postseason. We just need to accept that the system isn't perfect and that while we can complain about teams with losing records getting in, more competition is good for everyone.

Plus the IHSA is non-profit organization and so they'll make a lot of money off of this.

LOL, I'm out

4Afan · Saturday at 8:25 PM

Wassup13_rivals219252 said:
LOL, I'm out

Q of the Week: How will you define success of the expanded IHSA state football playoff system

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