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Thoughts After Reading About Jim Mora Firing DC Tyson Summers Mid Game

Phlebitis

Phlebitis

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I was reading more about this because the way it was handled was so outrageous, but Mora's explained further:

Mora made it abundantly clear that he was expecting Summers to simplify his defensive scheme.

"Players at any level, regardless of intelligence, can only comprehend so much in a football game. It's chaos. When you get in situations where your players aren't playing fast because they're not certain, it's critically important that you shrink the package. That's why I say we have to do a better job. We can't wait to change things. It's too late and that's not fair to our players," he added. "You have to be ultra-demanding of your players but you have to be specific about what you're demanding of them. It's not easy. It's complicated, but we have to un-complicate it."

PSU looked slow and less athletic in both losses and you have to at least question how much of that might have to do with overly complicated schemes they are still learning? I am honestly shocked by how much less athletic they have looked in the last 2 games. I don't doubt they are to a degree, but they have looked like a FCS team at times and we know many of them are better than that. This has me pondering, if the schemes are sound, does this team have the potential to improve quite a bit as the season continues?
 
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Marshall2323

Marshall2323

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Phlebitis said:
I was reading more about this because the way it was handled was so outrageous, but Mora's explained further:

Mora made it abundantly clear that he was expecting Summers to simplify his defensive scheme.

"Players at any level, regardless of intelligence, can only comprehend so much in a football game. It's chaos. When you get in situations where your players aren't playing fast because they're not certain, it's critically important that you shrink the package. That's why I say we have to do a better job. We can't wait to change things. It's too late and that's not fair to our players," he added. "You have to be ultra-demanding of your players but you have to be specific about what you're demanding of them. It's not easy. It's complicated, but we have to un-complicate it."

PSU looked slow and less athletic in both losses and you have to at least question how much of that might have to do with overly complicated schemes they are still learning? I am honestly shocked by how much less athletic they have looked in the last 2 games. I don't doubt they are to a degree, but they have looked like a FCS team at times and we know many of them are better than that. This has me pondering, if the schemes are sound, does this team have the potential to improve quite a bit as the season continues?
Click to expand...
So successful coaches must shrink their package?
 
Marshall2323

Marshall2323

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Nitt1300 said:
It's more likely a lack of talent than a bad scheme.
Click to expand...
A failure by Mora none the less. I mean who hired the guy? You didn't understand and approve of his scheme and you hired him? Every HC has the right to make staff changes IMO. Mid game? Nonsense.
 
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BobPSU92

BobPSU92

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Nitt1300 said:
It's more likely a lack of talent than a bad scheme.
Click to expand...

The coach lacks talent?

I like when coaches say, “I didn’t put our players in a position to win.” Campbell has said it. I know what they mean, but it still sounds stupid. It’s trite. The kids were on the field, 11 to a side. They were in full uniform. Shoes were tied. They had a football. Seems like they were in position to win.

Oh, position. “You stand like this. You like this. You over here like this.“ Maybe that’s what they mean.
 
Rocco3

Rocco3

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Phlebitis said:
I was reading more about this because the way it was handled was so outrageous, but Mora's explained further:

Mora made it abundantly clear that he was expecting Summers to simplify his defensive scheme.

"Players at any level, regardless of intelligence, can only comprehend so much in a football game. It's chaos. When you get in situations where your players aren't playing fast because they're not certain, it's critically important that you shrink the package. That's why I say we have to do a better job. We can't wait to change things. It's too late and that's not fair to our players," he added. "You have to be ultra-demanding of your players but you have to be specific about what you're demanding of them. It's not easy. It's complicated, but we have to un-complicate it."

PSU looked slow and less athletic in both losses and you have to at least question how much of that might have to do with overly complicated schemes they are still learning? I am honestly shocked by how much less athletic they have looked in the last 2 games. I don't doubt they are to a degree, but they have looked like a FCS team at times and we know many of them are better than that. This has me pondering, if the schemes are sound, does this team have the potential to improve quite a bit as the season continues?
Click to expand...
I wasn't sold on Lynn at USC, and I'm not sold on him now.

I do think his schemes are to blitz heavy but in all honesty some of that may be out of necessity.

The biggest problem is they can't stop the run. Our front end is a sieve. The need to scrap the D scheme entirely and go with a flexible form of the 4-4 D disguising it slipping in and out of it when needed.

Everyone is going to run on PS if they don't get the front end of the D fixed.

IMO a multiple defense is always best!

The other thing is the middle LB captain of the D is just getting lost during the play getting sucked into the wash and not being near the right gap or the play. They do not have the players on the front end to run the current scheme.

If they don't get this fixed and in a hurry, it's feasible we don't win another game.
 
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Rocco3

Rocco3

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Nitt1300 said:
It's more likely a lack of talent than a bad scheme.
Click to expand...
When you don't have the talent to run your scheme and they don't, you change or simplify your scheme. I recommend changing it entirely which can't happen after one game. Sadly it takes time and we are already in the heat of the battle..
 
Marshall2323

Marshall2323

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BobPSU92 said:
Relieved of duties during the game, left the sideline, fired afterwards.

www.espn.com

Colorado State DC leaves sideline, fired after game

Colorado State coach Jim Mora said defensive coordinator Tyson Summers was "no longer with the program" after he was relieved of his playcalling duties in the first half and left the sideline.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
Click to expand...
You heard it here first. It wasn't really about scheme. It starts with a disagreement about such.....but its a personality clash.
 
Bob78

Bob78

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Marshall2323 said:
So successful coaches must shrink their package?
Click to expand...
I have never coached, so this is just based on conversations and assumptions. Take it as such. Your perspective is welcome.

Coaches come pre-packaged with schemes and overall strategies that they like and have had success with. They do their best to recruit players to fit those schemes, who can comprehend and execute to maximize their effectiveness.

On the other hand, you have to play the cards you're dealt once all the players you're going to get are in the building. So, sometimes in practice and games, certain aspects just aren't clicking, or backups are in who aren't "getting it" just yet. Whatever. You can't over-complicate stuff and compound the already rampant confusion, especially during the heat of battle. Your best chance to win the game is to put in a game plan that the players can execute at a high level. That game plan may be "dumbed down" or shrunk to have a chance to win.

The coaches spend countless hours preparing and discussing and practicing and evaluating for each game. If they go into the game, and the coach calling the plays isn't following the prescribed plan while the team is losing and falling further behind, the Head Coach has every right to take control. Relieving a coach of calling plays during a game isn't new. Arguments between coaches during games isn't new. I don't know if Mora is right or wrong here, but I would not necessarily condemn his in-game decision to relieve the coach of calling plays until we know what led up to it even before the game.

The decision to leave the bench and ultimately the team seems to fall on the Asst. Coach/DC, who (perhaps) made an emotional decision at that moment of truth. He did himself no favors career-wise, and did the team no favors during the game. Imo, on the surface this looks worse for the Asst. Coach than for Mora.
 
Marshall2323

Marshall2323

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Bob78 said:
I have never coached, so this is just based on conversations and assumptions. Take it as such. Your perspective is welcome.

Coaches come pre-packaged with schemes and overall strategies that they like and have had success with. They do their best to recruit players to fit those schemes, who can comprehend and execute to maximize their effectiveness.

On the other hand, you have to play the cards you're dealt once all the players you're going to get are in the building. So, sometimes in practice and games, certain aspects just aren't clicking, or backups are in who aren't "getting it" just yet. Whatever. You can't over-complicate stuff and compound the already rampant confusion, especially during the heat of battle. Your best chance to win the game is to put in a game plan that the players can execute at a high level. That game plan may be "dumbed down" or shrunk to have a chance to win.

The coaches spend countless hours preparing and discussing and practicing and evaluating for each game. If they go into the game, and the coach calling the plays isn't following the prescribed plan while the team is losing and falling further behind, the Head Coach has every right to take control. Relieving a coach of calling plays during a game isn't new. Arguments between coaches during games isn't new. I don't know if Mora is right or wrong here, but I would not necessarily condemn his in-game decision to relieve the coach of calling plays until we know what led up to it even before the game.

The decision to leave the bench and ultimately the team seems to fall on the Asst. Coach/DC, who (perhaps) made an emotional decision at that moment of truth. He did himself no favors career-wise, and did the team no favors during the game. Imo, on the surface this looks worse for the Asst. Coach than for Mora.
Click to expand...
IMO damaging to both. I can't think of a potential positive result for either one or the program in general, for this to be a national story. As a head coach, I would make it abundantly clear to a potential coordinator hire that I had the final say.
IMO, I think this had roots in a clash of personalities that made the incident more that it needed to be.
 
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Marshall2323

Marshall2323

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Bob78 said:
I have never coached, so this is just based on conversations and assumptions. Take it as such. Your perspective is welcome.

Coaches come pre-packaged with schemes and overall strategies that they like and have had success with. They do their best to recruit players to fit those schemes, who can comprehend and execute to maximize their effectiveness.

On the other hand, you have to play the cards you're dealt once all the players you're going to get are in the building. So, sometimes in practice and games, certain aspects just aren't clicking, or backups are in who aren't "getting it" just yet. Whatever. You can't over-complicate stuff and compound the already rampant confusion, especially during the heat of battle. Your best chance to win the game is to put in a game plan that the players can execute at a high level. That game plan may be "dumbed down" or shrunk to have a chance to win.

The coaches spend countless hours preparing and discussing and practicing and evaluating for each game. If they go into the game, and the coach calling the plays isn't following the prescribed plan while the team is losing and falling further behind, the Head Coach has every right to take control. Relieving a coach of calling plays during a game isn't new. Arguments between coaches during games isn't new. I don't know if Mora is right or wrong here, but I would not necessarily condemn his in-game decision to relieve the coach of calling plays until we know what led up to it even before the game.

The decision to leave the bench and ultimately the team seems to fall on the Asst. Coach/DC, who (perhaps) made an emotional decision at that moment of truth. He did himself no favors career-wise, and did the team no favors during the game. Imo, on the surface this looks worse for the Asst. Coach than for Mora.
Click to expand...
In my 54th year as a coach, AD, league and district administrator, I continue to be fascinated with the dangerous dance between a HC and his coordinators. A coordinator's goal is to look brilliant and advance his career. The HC goal is to win and preserve and perhaps advance his career. You'd think the 2 are compatible. I find the relationships fascinating.
Speaking of relationships. I wonder what Terry Smith's real feelings are right now?
 
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Rocco3

Rocco3

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KingLando said:
The toddler approach?
He wouldn't have been fired...he would have retained his title and not called plays. We've seen that hundreds of times where the HC takes over play calling
Click to expand...
See JoePa. He many times took over play calling and in a couple instances said here you take it I'm not doing them any good. His own words.
 
B

BCS PSU

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Phlebitis said:
I was reading more about this because the way it was handled was so outrageous, but Mora's explained further:

Mora made it abundantly clear that he was expecting Summers to simplify his defensive scheme.

"Players at any level, regardless of intelligence, can only comprehend so much in a football game. It's chaos. When you get in situations where your players aren't playing fast because they're not certain, it's critically important that you shrink the package. That's why I say we have to do a better job. We can't wait to change things. It's too late and that's not fair to our players," he added. "You have to be ultra-demanding of your players but you have to be specific about what you're demanding of them. It's not easy. It's complicated, but we have to un-complicate it."

PSU looked slow and less athletic in both losses and you have to at least question how much of that might have to do with overly complicated schemes they are still learning? I am honestly shocked by how much less athletic they have looked in the last 2 games. I don't doubt they are to a degree, but they have looked like a FCS team at times and we know many of them are better than that. This has me pondering, if the schemes are sound, does this team have the potential to improve quite a bit as the season continues?
Click to expand...
This is the same defense that held what now appears to be a decent Wisconsin team to 10 points until under 5 minutes to go in the fourth quarter despite getting no help from the offense, and they were good against the run. Obviously, this defense needs a huge infusion of talent, but there was more to their terrible performance against Northwestern than a lack of talent, because even a bottom MAC team wouldn’t have been that bad against the run in that game.
 
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B

BCS PSU

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royboy said:
Probably so, but that was an awful defensive scheme PSU had (mostly for the 1st half) vs Northwestern's running game.

Would have been far better to bring LBs and an occasional Safety up to the line of scrimmage to combat the run; go to man coverage in the secondary.
Click to expand...
I never understand why it takes coaches until halftime to adjust. It was obvious very early in the game that PSU needed to maybe play with three d-linemen and maybe force Niorthwestern to alter what they were doing with the running game.
 
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