Football Participation and bad football

beamer24 · Friday at 7:43 AM

Maybe its always been like this and just not realized it but it seems alot of schools are struggling with numbers and there are just some flat out bad football teams. What's the deal? Its easy to say kids just dont want to play, but they play at some schools.
Is it covid hangover, bad coaching, transfer portal, economy

redhill1300 · Friday at 7:59 AM

1) The state doesn’t pay good
2) We’re in the worst era parity wise because every good player goes to the same 2 schools max in their area
3) A lot of the kids probably missed out on a lot of fundamentals being in middle school during COVID.
4) See #2 again. I’m in the Winston area and I can’t stress enough of what it’s killed there. Carver, Parkland, North Forsyth, RJR, & W-S Prep are all dumpster fires because no one goes to school in district now. It’s just West Forsyth (only true contender), then Reagan, then whoever else lucks up. Especially messed up Carver though

Vik-Val 86 · Friday at 7:59 AM

beamer you brought out a good point. One thing I’m seeing is seems like the rich are getting richer. If I was in school now and see how things are being done I probably wouldn’t play anyway. Seeing how the transfer is going. Certain schools seems to get the the transfer and others don’t. Like my school. I like it better back in the days when schools played with their locals.

redhill1300 · Friday at 8:01 AM

I’m from Durham and it’s much the same there too. Southern Durham is the only contender, and then everyone else is mostly teams you genuinely shouldn’t be spending $11 on unless you’re seeing a relative.

CHEERDUCK · Friday at 8:22 AM

Covid is the silent culprit followed by the female scream of concussion protocol. Social media sure has made it easier to communicate with other schools and coaches. How many private and charter schools were around 30 years ago? Times, they are a changing.

Goldendomer10 · Friday at 10:02 AM

The mountains are a little different on the transfer scene some due to proximity and also not having new schools built/districted so people still have more communal ties to the school. That communal tie is loosening as more people move into the mountains. I may be wrong but the last mountain redistricting high school I can remember being built would be when Edneyville got rolled into the new North Henderson High in 1994ish. Brevard wouldn’t be as down as they are this year without transfers departing. East Henderson wouldn’t be as regularly weak without kids regularly leaving for other Henderson schools and Christ School.

Fundamentals especially tackling are definitely not as strong as they once were and that seems like the vast majority of teams I watch. I assume that’s just attributed to less time spent physically practicing it. Not to say back in my day it was right or better but we did a lot more live practice drills. Maybe we were both more durable and expendable in the coaches eyes.

.

I think overall that football quality across the board will continue to trend down especially in rural areas based on youth league numbers,etc. Not my desire, just my observation.

WNCfootball · Friday at 10:38 AM

Not as many kids are playing football in general. There are alot of factors affecting this, and there are certainly schools and areas where this is not the case. But who would who would have ever thought that a school with the tradition of Swain County would have to forfeit varsity football games due to a lack of players?

beamer24 · Friday at 10:47 AM

I do believe you have kids specializing in a sport like basketball or baseball who, 20 years ago, would probably have played football too.

WNCfootball · Friday at 11:14 AM

Just posted on 1a/2a board that First Flight has had to drop varsity football for the remainder of the year. Just another example of the discussion in this thread

redhill1300 · Friday at 11:24 AM

Honestly, I feel like if Charlotte-Meck enforced things, the rest of the state would’ve followed suit.

It’s been like 4 all time dynasties out of that school system in a 20 yr span and it was blatant recruitment in many of em. It sets the tone that everyone then followed, with the exception of down east & appalachians.

Panther97 · Friday at 11:40 AM

Demographic shifts, Administrative changes and their focus on what they want the school to be, parent involvement in which athletics get favorable treatment. Kids now can go to school based on the number of classes they need vs having to be there from 8-3 every day. I feel like most kids that play are looking to play in college and don't just play b/c its something to do and they way things are today if you aren't 110% bought in to whatever "program" is there then there is no point in playing.

Goldendomer10 · Friday at 11:41 AM

WNCfootball said:
Just posted on 1a/2a board that First Flight has had to drop varsity football for the remainder of the year. Just another example of the discussion in this thread

And they are a 4A school. 850+students. Long story short, if you don’t have tradition and a strong football culture many 4A schools and below are going to struggle more and more with participation numbers.

It's Frank · Friday at 11:44 AM

If only this state had a governing body to control and regulate high school athletics...

But on another note, you can attribute non faculty coaches/persona as a factor of increased transfers and recruiting of said transfers. There may or may not be some schools with coaches hired specifically to prowl around youth leagues, middle school, jv and even varsity games. May or may not be money and housing offered as well. It is literally the wild west. Not to mention you see people saying "this kid should go here or there" everyday on social media and who knows what private messages are sent and what could be offered.

notanyonesfan1 · Friday at 11:45 AM

I think transfers really affect the morale of others that don't have the ability to do the same and that causes some to just not play.

Specializing in baseball or basketball nowadays too. But transfers is the biggest issue I think

PisgahCatamount007 · Friday at 12:18 PM

Economy... It seems like just about everyone's struggling right now. More kids taking jobs after school to help family out or fund their after school hobbies, vehicles, girlfriends, clothes, etc. Where as they didn't have to as much back in the day, because families could survive and thrive on a modest wage brought in by one or both parents. Living was more affordable.

Trades and Skills... Less kids going to a 4-year college due to increasing and rising wages with the possibility of a very successful career in select trades, such as HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical, Linework, etc. that they can start delving into and studying now instead of waiting to graduate to get a leg up. Time is revealing that 4-year degrees simply aren't worth it in a lot of fields.

Traveling sports and specialization of certain sports... Mommy and Daddy have Junior globetrotting around the Southeast year round in baseball, basketball, golf, soccer, etc. to try to get more exposure and recognition.

Lack of discipline and belts to asses starting at home... Kids today in general with exception of some simply don't have the respect or discipline that was instilled back in the day in a lot of us. They can't handle being coached, corrected, and criticized.

Social media and transfer portal, which go hand in hand now... Self explanatory and probably the biggest culprit of all.

North Carolina Teachers and Coaches salaries... Can't keep count of all the good men and women that we've lost to neighboring states or that have changed professions completely due to the almighty dollar and rightfully so.

The continued rise of charters, privates, religious institutions, etc. They simply didn't exist or were very few and far between 20+ years ago.

This list could honestly go on and on but my fingers are getting tired...

rawacopaea · Friday at 12:38 PM

Transfers......period. Should end discussion. All the other factors mentioned collectively might add up to 20% of the reason but when the rich get richer, regardless of the sport (see below), the poor tend to give up. Can't say I blame them. Who wants to put in the blood, sweat, tears and pain required to play football when you know before you walk on the field you are going to have a running clock.

Gutless school boards who couldn't get the backing of a gutless state association 20+ years ago opened Pandora's Box. Combine that with a "me" culture that has no loyalty to anyone but self and you have the current state of amateur sports in America. As much as I wish we would return to the days of being devoted to ones "home" school, I don't see it happening.

We are focused on football here but this same trend can be applied to other sports. Look at what has happened to many non revenue sports at many inner city schools. Many of the kids that played those sports and made their schools competitive were allowed to leave and go to the school of their choice.

We are living in sad times.

Wow71 · Friday at 1:25 PM

1- Online schools are hurting ADM's. Lots of kids doing K12 online, Dogwood and other online classes.
2- School systems are allowing kids to graduate with 22 credits. That takes players out of the mix as a Junior.
3- Lack of participation and desire to play sports anymore. This is the generation of digital tech, social media and laziness.
4- Coaches pay is not great in NC, but the majority of coaches love the game and coach hard regardless.
5- Transfers matter, but typically only in the higher divisions and bigger districts like CMS, Raleigh area, Forsyth, Guilford counties.
6- The 8 quarter system needs to be adjusted based on ADM's. Small 1A/2/3A teams with say 35-40 total kids 9-12 need the ability to be more flexible on who they can bring up and down each week. Injuries have a huge impact on the ability to maintain a small JV team at many schools. NCHSAA needs to look at that and maybe bump the numbers up for smaller teams.
7- Rise in the number of charter, private and online classes is an issue. Seems like a bunch open every year, especially in the bigger Urban areas.

Vik-Val 86 · Friday at 1:25 PM

Taking North Iredell for example. They haven’t had a good team in years and they always at the bottom of the conference. When they see teams like Mooresville , Lake Norman at the top for year after year and then they cant beat the teams in between I can understand players not wanting to go out and play. They don’t need to be the same conference. They would fit better with Wilkes or Surry Co teams for example. But they don’t see it that way. If only conferences could be better matchup with teams that are more equal It would help. Mooresville and Lake Norman needs to be playing Forsyth Co schools or Meck Co schools. Mooresville and Lake Norman is in a big built up area now. North Iredell being at the upper part of the county don’t have the population growth. The talent is not there like it is in the more southern part.

Wow71 · Friday at 1:31 PM

Vik-Val 86 said:
Taking North Iredell for example. They haven’t had a good team in years and they always at the bottom of the conference. When they see teams like Mooresville , Lake Norman at the top for year after year and then they cant beat the teams in between I can understand players not wanting to go out and play. They don’t need to be the same conference. They would fit better with Wilkes or Surry Co teams for example. But they don’t see it that way. If only conferences could be better matchup with teams that are more equal It would help. Mooresville and Lake Norman needs to be playing Forsyth Co schools or Meck Co schools. Mooresville and Lake Norman is in a big built up area now. North Iredell being at the upper part of the county don’t have the population growth. The talent is not there like it is in the more southern part.

Unfortunately there are AD's, Principals and Systems that value money (home gates) over the state and health of the teams. They want a gate that schools like Mooresville and LN bring in to maintain the programs. Losing becomes secondary to $$$ in many situations. Gas is a major issue now in most systems and some are closing smaller teams or allowing only local travel options for non-conference games in all sports.

beamer24 · Friday at 3:17 PM

I like revamping 8 quarter rule, think that would help smaller clases

Kingbluedevil · Friday at 4:32 PM

PisgahCatamount007 said:
Economy... It seems like just about everyone's struggling right now. More kids taking jobs after school to help family out or fund their after school hobbies, vehicles, girlfriends, clothes, etc. Where as they didn't have to as much back in the day, because families could survive and thrive on a modest wage brought in by one or both parents. Living was more affordable.

Trades and Skills... Less kids going to a 4-year college due to increasing and rising wages with the possibility of a very successful career in select trades, such as HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical, Linework, etc. that they can start delving into and studying now instead of waiting to graduate to get a leg up. Time is revealing that 4-year degrees simply aren't worth it in a lot of fields.

Traveling sports and specialization of certain sports... Mommy and Daddy have Junior globetrotting around the Southeast year round in baseball, basketball, golf, soccer, etc. to try to get more exposure and recognition.

Lack of discipline and belts to asses starting at home... Kids today in general with exception of some simply don't have the respect or discipline that was instilled back in the day in a lot of us. They can't handle being coached, corrected, and criticized.

Social media and transfer portal, which go hand in hand now... Self explanatory and probably the biggest culprit of all.

North Carolina Teachers and Coaches salaries... Can't keep count of all the good men and women that we've lost to neighboring states or that have changed professions completely due to the almighty dollar and rightfully so.

The continued rise of charters, privates, religious institutions, etc. They simply didn't exist or were very few and far between 20+ years ago.

This list could honestly go on and on but my fingers are getting tired...

You covered it, thanks

Kingbluedevil · Friday at 4:47 PM

I think having good coaches in each sport working together helps participation. It also effects some areas more than others. West Stokes 4a has won wells Fargo cup for several years running and they have good coaches in all sports.

kyleheel30 · Friday at 5:55 PM

Technology plays a big role in this. Young people are constantly on cell phones instead of wanting to practice and be outside.

theBatMan88 · Saturday at 8:54 AM

Wow71 said:
Unfortunately there are AD's, Principals and Systems that value money (home gates) over the state and health of the teams. They want a gate that schools like Mooresville and LN bring in to maintain the programs. Losing becomes secondary to $$$ in many situations. Gas is a major issue now in most systems and some are closing smaller teams or allowing only local travel options for non-conference games in all sports.

Except nobody travels TO North Iredell, not even the big programs. Shelling out gas money, supper, and the $10 game tickets to see a 50-0 blowout isn't happening.

beamer24 · Saturday at 9:13 AM

I do think going to region play in football could even the playing field for some teams.

Football Participation and bad football

All-American

Sophomore

All-American

Sophomore

All-Conference

All-Conference

Senior

All-American

Senior

Sophomore

Sophomore

All-Conference

All-Conference

Senior

Freshman

Junior

Senior

All-American

Senior

All-American

All-American

All-American

All-American

Freshman

All-American