POLL: Should Trump and Rs Restore Confederate Statues and Monuments
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
Bringing them back is worse than keeping them in the first place.
Whatever your politics, this kind of poll is good for curating your ignore list.
@cigaretteman - Why only "mostly" oppose? Are there some Confederate monuments or statues that were taken down that you want to see put back up?
Seems like a waste of money as libs will vandalize them and most likely remove them when they are in office
I just feel that there could be educational value in keeping some in place when shown and explained in the proper context.
I've always thought there can be value in displaying them appropriately. Rotate some through the Smithsonian, for example. I mean there's nothing wrong with having displays that illustrate and explain racism, treason, and the rest - as long as they are clearly treated as the evils they are and not celebrated.
But Trump gang wants to see these people and their beliefs honored or whitewashed, and that needs to be opposed.
THIS. And this is from someone who's family fought for the South. It's crazy to me that memorials honoring a bunch of Rebels were ever allowed to be on US Government land at all. That is weird as shiit. HOWEVER, I do believe that the entire Civil War is an important piece of US history and shouldn't be whitewashed (pun intended) and ignored. So I'm all about removing these from Government Land, but I'm also all about placing them where they can still be a part of the country's history.
The entire country was extremely racist. It was not treason to think that states could separate from the union. This is well chronicled.
There's no secession provision in the US constitution. The Confederacy attacked first (Ft Sumpter).
How is that not treason?
That was never the point. The vast majority were put in place in the early 20th century to intimidate the black population. A “we’re still here” message.
Sumter, no P. The states joined the union voluntarily so why couldn’t they leave it? They were a separate country at that point. Lincoln was reinforcing the troops. Obviously it was not going to work having a foreign country’s military base in your harbor. Not treason. It’s more complicated and nuanced than you want to believe.
This is my logic too. They are a part of our history, good or bad. They should be framed in an accurate historical context.
Hell yes, I want Cheeto and his fellow white nationalists to bring back every one of those traitor (aka Confederate) statues. Do it with military force if necessary.
Then wait for the reaction. Cheeto and his henchmen are already SO popular. This can only help, right?
Then wait for the reaction. Cheeto and his henchmen are already SO popular. This can only help, right?
John Brown was found guilty of treason and hanged. How many Confederates were?Hell yes, I want Cheeto and his fellow white nationalists to bring back every one of those traitor (aka Confederate) statues. Do it with military force if necessary.
Then wait for the reaction. Cheeto and his henchmen are already SO popular. This can only help, right?
I am curious how history - say, fifty years from now - will view a political movement that transparently and aggressively worked to exclude black and women accomplishments from our museums while working to return/keep monuments to confederate generals and soldiers.
What kind of person doesn't understand how absurdly wrong this is? Will we reach a point where we reach a consensus on this?
What kind of person doesn't understand how absurdly wrong this is? Will we reach a point where we reach a consensus on this?
so here's a question....why were the statues created? who paid for their creation?Hell yes, I want Cheeto and his fellow white nationalists to bring back every one of those traitor (aka Confederate) statues. Do it with military force if necessary.
Then wait for the reaction. Cheeto and his henchmen are already SO popular. This can only help, right?
IMO destroying statues does nothing to erase the history. Nor does destruction eliminate the necessity of understanding the reasons why the south seceded. There were reasons, based on things at the time.
We're doing things now that our ancestors will look at and say "what were they thinking"....even though there are good reasons today.
and, what are we gaining from destroying some statues? the confederacy existed, it's part of American history, and now, people who never thought about the civil war, are discussing it when statues were taken down and now that some propose putting them back up.
Lot's of people had relatives who fought and/or died during the conflict and with or without statues, they're not going to forget
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IMO people who say removing Confederate statues is "erasing history" are really just ignorant of history. Nobody is talking about erasing the Civil War. ...put it in the history books, museums, historical parks, etc.
But most don't even know why they were erected in the first place. The biggest wave of Confederate monument construction wasn't even right after the war...the majority went up decades later (1880s-1920s) during the Jim Crow era. They were part of the Lost Cause effort to portray the Confederacy as heroes while the South was simultaneously disenfranchising and segregating Black Americans. Many were deliberately put in courthouse squares, statehouse grounds and city parks to serve as reminders of the Confederates and what they represented--kind of a finger point at the blacks.
IMO, if you're NOT a racist, then you should understand why these statues really don't belong in a fully equal, non-segragated society.
But most don't even know why they were erected in the first place. The biggest wave of Confederate monument construction wasn't even right after the war...the majority went up decades later (1880s-1920s) during the Jim Crow era. They were part of the Lost Cause effort to portray the Confederacy as heroes while the South was simultaneously disenfranchising and segregating Black Americans. Many were deliberately put in courthouse squares, statehouse grounds and city parks to serve as reminders of the Confederates and what they represented--kind of a finger point at the blacks.
IMO, if you're NOT a racist, then you should understand why these statues really don't belong in a fully equal, non-segragated society.
Because he doesn't want it to be.
What educational value could they possibly serve? What is the purpose of the statue? This is stupid.
You want an educational statue of Lee? Put him in front of a firing squad with the plinth saying "What should have happened".
So I will start this by saying that no military base or installation should be allowed to be named after or celebrate the Confederacy.
I do believe that there should be a place for these, sort of a museum of the damned. But there is another reason to display them, and it is hard to put into words so I will tell you a story that I hope helps explain it.
Shortly after highschool I was lucky enough to be able to travel to Australia and Hawaii as part of a program to play American football in Australia.
On the way back we got to spend a few days relaxing in Hawaii. A group of us went to the USS Arizona Memorial - which even to an 18 year old Gester was so very powerful and moving so if you have a chance to see it, take it.
While we were there a bunch of Japanese tourists came in and some of the guys I was with became agitated. Then a veteran (Korean War) who was working there came up and talked with us about how there are usually always Japanese tourists that come to pay respects to their family members that fought and died there. To paraphrase him as it has been decades: "It is alright and we encourage them to come. War is horrible and almost no one who fights in one wants to be. They gave their lives for their country and it is ok for their family to honor them. It is now part of our shared history."
So we can honor shared history without necessarily celebrating it.
I do believe that there should be a place for these, sort of a museum of the damned. But there is another reason to display them, and it is hard to put into words so I will tell you a story that I hope helps explain it.
Shortly after highschool I was lucky enough to be able to travel to Australia and Hawaii as part of a program to play American football in Australia.
On the way back we got to spend a few days relaxing in Hawaii. A group of us went to the USS Arizona Memorial - which even to an 18 year old Gester was so very powerful and moving so if you have a chance to see it, take it.
While we were there a bunch of Japanese tourists came in and some of the guys I was with became agitated. Then a veteran (Korean War) who was working there came up and talked with us about how there are usually always Japanese tourists that come to pay respects to their family members that fought and died there. To paraphrase him as it has been decades: "It is alright and we encourage them to come. War is horrible and almost no one who fights in one wants to be. They gave their lives for their country and it is ok for their family to honor them. It is now part of our shared history."
So we can honor shared history without necessarily celebrating it.
I think getting rid of the statues was a big mistake. For better or for worse it's part of our history. It's whitewashing our history. Sort of what trump is doing with the Smithsonian. Making it so we see his version of our past. He's whitewashing our past as well.
If they've been removed, let them stay removed. If they're up, let them stay up.
Iconoclasty seldom leads anywhere good, regardless of whose icons are being clasted.
Iconoclasty seldom leads anywhere good, regardless of whose icons are being clasted.
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Why are there ghettos in all the big liberal cities? Why did they have red lining? Did the Daughters of the Confederacy make them do it?
It's hilarious that at the time he wasn't put in front of a firing squad and for years later US Military Personnel and Government official held him in high regard, but you modern pussies can't handle it.
Some light reading.
Five American Presidents Who Praised Robert E. Lee
Highlighting numerous quotes from prestigious historical figures who admired and revered Robert E. Lee
www.lafayettesnewsletter.com
Not sure what ghettos and redlining in Northern/liberal cities have to do with my point about why Confederate monuments were erected. But sure, redlining was real. Yes, racial segregation and discriminatory housing policies existed outside the South. None of that changes the history of Confederate monuments.
We need to put signs up in those neighborhoods so that we can understand the historical context.Not sure what ghettos and redlining in Northern/liberal cities have to do with my point about why Confederate monuments were erected. But sure, redlining was real. Yes, racial segregation and discriminatory housing policies existed outside the South. None of that changes the history of Confederate monuments.
yes...the people who want to honor confederates would also want to comemmorate racist housing policies too
is this the point you were trying to make?
Just as long as we acknowledge the land was also stolen first.
i don't think you even know what you're advocating for at this point
We must acknowledge all things that liberals find wrong with history and put it on a sign for context.
There are no statues of Yamamoto or Genda at Pearl Harbor. No monuments for the Japanese dead. The Arizona Memorial honors American dead on American soil. What a Japanese tourist takes from that is up to them - my guess is they are simply paying respects - but there is no memorial at Pearl Harbor to the enemy.
liberals are the ones that want to remove the memorials, statues and signs honoring the confederates
We're not sure you do.
I understand that yall can't seem to wrap your minds around the fact Andrew Johnson issued a formal pardon for all Confederate Soldiers.
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