I just want to point out the Hecklinski's INT was on 4th down and he was about to be tackled. I'd much rather have him throw into the endzone in that situation that throw it away or be tackled.
QB Battle: Jeremy Hecklinski appears to have passed Hank Brown on the Depth Chart. QB was NOT a Transfer Portal Priority per KF on Dec 18
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
Bingo. Not doing the team any favors in the long run. I think the fact remains Brown has always been KF’s likely preference. He needs to just name Brown the starter and get him QB1 reps in practice and in the game. Every snap is invaluable for the QB1 this year.
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Sorry, but that's on DJV, not Brown.No QB is perfect on every play. Even though he had to turn over his shoulder that ball went right between both hands. That has to be a catch.
Maybe, but if Brown starts against ISU and is playing well, I'd probably leave him in and give him some real momentum and let the team rally around him before the Michigan game on the 26th. I still think running them both in and out of the line up doesn't allow either guy to play to the best of his ability.
Agree on DJV needing to catch that, I'm a firm believer that if it hits the hands it should be caught, but both can be true. That was also a clear miss from Brown. That should have been a gimme touchdown and he made it difficult.
Same thing but worse for Heck, who led Diaz over his outside shoulder out of bounds on the sideline about the 20 yd line, just off his hands. If that balls on his inside shoulder he walks into the end zone.
I'm not sure I saw that play live, still need to rewatch all of it. I was watching at a house with a bunch of babies.
I'm not necessarily advocating for that, but if they're still evaluating, it wouldn't be the worst idea. I'm of the opinion Brown looked a lot more comfortable Saturday and would be fine if they had made their decision. But it's possible they want to see how Hecklinski responds with getting the first series or two right out of the gate. Not saying that's the correct thing to do, but it's something that may happen.
Absolutely should have been caught. Definitely not a ball placed where it should have been. Both were probably graded down for it.
Nvm just saw it and yes that was a bad miss as well. I also missed his first throw of the day where he came out and looked like he had some jitters with the double clutch.
I would like to see both continue to see time.
My concern with Brown is how he performs against better competition. At Auburn, he looked great in his first couple games (6 TDs, 0 INTs, 11.8 yards per attempt). Then they played a mediocre Arkansas team, he threw 3 interceptions in the first half and was benched. Brown has better physical attributes than Heck - he is taller, has a stronger arm, and even has better straight-line speed. For this to be a competition in the first place, Heck must be processing information better (also presumably why he passed Brown on the depth chart last year).
Brown and Heck both missed some throws against NIU. I think Heck had the most impressive play when he corralled a bad snap and then completed a pass to Buie. Brown made a couple nice throws to Diaz (the TD and a 14-yard out route). But neither hit on their deep balls. I think we may have had only two passes of 10+ air yards completed - the biggest pass plays were runs after the catch.
With all that said, if Brown starts on fire against Iowa State, I'd be good letting him play the whole game. But otherwise I'd like to at least keep Heck "warm" before we go to Michigan.
My concern with Brown is how he performs against better competition. At Auburn, he looked great in his first couple games (6 TDs, 0 INTs, 11.8 yards per attempt). Then they played a mediocre Arkansas team, he threw 3 interceptions in the first half and was benched. Brown has better physical attributes than Heck - he is taller, has a stronger arm, and even has better straight-line speed. For this to be a competition in the first place, Heck must be processing information better (also presumably why he passed Brown on the depth chart last year).
Brown and Heck both missed some throws against NIU. I think Heck had the most impressive play when he corralled a bad snap and then completed a pass to Buie. Brown made a couple nice throws to Diaz (the TD and a 14-yard out route). But neither hit on their deep balls. I think we may have had only two passes of 10+ air yards completed - the biggest pass plays were runs after the catch.
With all that said, if Brown starts on fire against Iowa State, I'd be good letting him play the whole game. But otherwise I'd like to at least keep Heck "warm" before we go to Michigan.
I wonder if they give Heck the start this time and then combine games 1 & 2, to compare them....
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Maybe make the decision after game #2, where for game #3, QB1 gets all the practice reps and starts and only leaves once its a rout.
I think the better data to collect would be to give Hank the full game, and see what he does with it.
But keep Heck warm and ready.
hopefully we get these minor issues cleaned up before Michigan/Ohio State/Washington....
I am just glad the players are making the mistakes now
hopefully they get corrected and we just keep getting better week to week
Things like this happen all the time. It's not something you "clean up" there will be incompletions about 45% of the time. That's football.
sounds weird but i would like to see this happen
Overall, I think Leistikow and Tachman do a really good job. I want to say that up front.
But I also think it’s interesting that all summer long, they were beating the drum for the idea of the QB competition stretching into the season. Then, after Kids Day, they pretty clearly became Team Heck, so much so that last week, after Kirk declined to name a starter, they seemed skeptical of the move, with Tachman, in particular, raising the question that in a few weeks, we might be criticizing the coaching staff for mismanaging the QB decision, by not settling on a starter. And now, after Saturday’s game, when most observers are giving the edge to Brown (and there’s data to back it up), they are once again advocating for shared time for the two QBs against ISU. Tachman, specifically, called for Heck to get the start, with the QBs switching after 2-3 series.
I want to acknowledge that there’s probably no clear answer as to how we should proceed at QB. We all have our opinions. But these two sportswriters, who I think usually do an excellent job, are kind of all over the place on this one.
I went through the exercise of rewatching all of Brown and Heck's passing/running snaps. I charted each play with some brief notes and assigned a score of +1 positive / 0 neutral / -1 negative. For some added context, there were both completions and incompletions that I would consider 'neutral' plays. Completions where it was a short throw to a schemed up wide open receiver that any middle school QB could hit would be a neutral completion example. For example, Heck's touchdown pass I graded as neutral. Hats off to Lester on those. There were also some incompletions I considered 'neutral', where the QB made the best he could out of a play, or it wasn't a necessarily egregious miss.
Overall my general thoughts were that both quarterbacks were unfortunately even worse than I had initially thought. Both had some positive moments, but also a fair share of bad misses and turnover worthy plays. They were also about as even as can be in positive/neutral/negative plays made. Below is how things shook out:
Total passing plays (plus the one RPO with Heck):
Brown - 23
Heck - 18
Positive / Neutral / Negative plays
Brown - 9 / 6 / 8
Heck - 7 / 5 / 6
Turnover worthy plays
Brown - 2
Heck - 1 (the actual INT, although this was 4th and goal where he threw up for grabs to avoid sack)
One other item to note. On Heck's passing plays, over half (or 9 of 17) came on what would be considered obvious passing downs (2nd and 7 or more, 3rd and 5 or more or 4th down). These are naturally going to be more difficult to convert as the defense is expecting pass. While only 8 of Brown's 23 passing plays came in these obvious passing down situations. They also passed way more on first down with Brown, 13 of his 23 pass plays vs. only 4 of 17 passing on first down for Heck.
Overall it was extremely even between the two in regards to the number of positive plays and negative plays with bad misses and near turnovers. I would like to see more from both before anointing either of them the full time starter. I simply don't believe we've seen enough to know who will be the better option for when we get into Big Ten play and see tougher competition. Gun to my head right now I would lean Heck. Yes he had some absolutely terrible misses (so did Brown), but I like his mobility in the pocket better than Brown, and Brown really scares me with his locking in on wide receivers. More so than the two turnover worthy plays Brown had on Saturday, the more telling miss for me was the miss he had to Diaz on the left side of the field on 3rd and 4 near the end of the first half. NIU basically brought a four man rush that was picked up, but Brown for whatever reason panicked and quickly threw it out to the left on his back foot and without setting his feet. Not a good look, as I've long been a believer that pocket presence is maybe the most important skill for a QB to have. If this is an issue with Brown, it will be magnified when we start to face better defenses.
Overall my general thoughts were that both quarterbacks were unfortunately even worse than I had initially thought. Both had some positive moments, but also a fair share of bad misses and turnover worthy plays. They were also about as even as can be in positive/neutral/negative plays made. Below is how things shook out:
Total passing plays (plus the one RPO with Heck):
Brown - 23
Heck - 18
Positive / Neutral / Negative plays
Brown - 9 / 6 / 8
Heck - 7 / 5 / 6
Turnover worthy plays
Brown - 2
Heck - 1 (the actual INT, although this was 4th and goal where he threw up for grabs to avoid sack)
One other item to note. On Heck's passing plays, over half (or 9 of 17) came on what would be considered obvious passing downs (2nd and 7 or more, 3rd and 5 or more or 4th down). These are naturally going to be more difficult to convert as the defense is expecting pass. While only 8 of Brown's 23 passing plays came in these obvious passing down situations. They also passed way more on first down with Brown, 13 of his 23 pass plays vs. only 4 of 17 passing on first down for Heck.
Overall it was extremely even between the two in regards to the number of positive plays and negative plays with bad misses and near turnovers. I would like to see more from both before anointing either of them the full time starter. I simply don't believe we've seen enough to know who will be the better option for when we get into Big Ten play and see tougher competition. Gun to my head right now I would lean Heck. Yes he had some absolutely terrible misses (so did Brown), but I like his mobility in the pocket better than Brown, and Brown really scares me with his locking in on wide receivers. More so than the two turnover worthy plays Brown had on Saturday, the more telling miss for me was the miss he had to Diaz on the left side of the field on 3rd and 4 near the end of the first half. NIU basically brought a four man rush that was picked up, but Brown for whatever reason panicked and quickly threw it out to the left on his back foot and without setting his feet. Not a good look, as I've long been a believer that pocket presence is maybe the most important skill for a QB to have. If this is an issue with Brown, it will be magnified when we start to face better defenses.
Huh? If he throws it away NIU takes over at the 2 yd line. Even sacked at the 5 yd line is better than the end zone pick, taking a knee and moving the ball out to the 20 yd line.
You'd rather have 15 yards of field position over a 50/50 ball for a possible TD? Ball on the 20 is still not good field position.
This. Give Hank some leash, but it things really go sideways, you see what Heck has.
Good summary. The discrepancy in number of 1st down passing plays and obvious passing situations is interesting and obviously impacts the results.
Yes it popped out after reviewing the notes, I didn't notice this when watching live. I'm guessing this was at least partially due to the game already being out of hand by the time Heck started playing. I also wonder if a lot of the first few drives when Brown was in were scripted, and then they went more conservative later on.
Not really. It was a play action designed to go out to the right. No one was open and by the time Hecklinski could turn back to his left he already had the guy in his face and just had to get rid of it.
Edit: Actually it looks like the design was for a throw back to Buie crossing on the back side, but it was too slow developing for the pressure and he had to let it go.
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