The boosters must be fatigued at this point.

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

PastorofMuppets82 said:
See above, this has been answered multiple times. Why would I compare beyond three years after Pope left the program, he is in year 3 currently. Pope at Utah Valley did not have NIL. Mark Madsen was atrocious at Utah Valley before NIL (year 3). Comparing anything Utah Valley did after NIL was allowed to before NIL is a bad faith argument and you know it. You have also claimed several times Utah Valley won the conference tournament with Madsen, they didn't. Grand Canyon did the year Utah Valley finished tied for 1st in the regular season WAC conference (shortened season at that). You keep trying to squeeze blood from stone and look stupid every time you do it. Give it up dude. Take the L.

How long was Pope at UVS? If he was there 4, why do only 3 count now?

He was atrocious but tied for first in his conference in yr 2? Something Pope never did in 4?

Who did they get post NIL that really changed the program? What was their NIL budget and expenses to players?

It's not at all. Particularly a place like UVS that we both know isn't competing for players with NIL money. Lulz. If so, show us the proof!

Also, the 1st place tie was prior to NIL, right? And the coach prior to pope who also won the conference and went to the NIT prior to NIL, what is the excuse for that?

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

@PastorofMuppets82

NIT appearances before and after Pope. Conference champion before and after Pope.

Notice, Pope did neither. But sure, it was NIL and whatever other excuse you could come up with. It had nothing to do with coaching ability. And obviously CBI appearances are better than NIT and not winning the Conference is better than doing so.

But, you're right...you win!!!

PastorofMuppets82 · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
They finished tied for first 2 years removed from pope. Just like they had 2 years prior to Pope. Pope never won either or ties.

Mark Masden has taken them to the NIT semis and won the conference and or tournament 4 out of 7 years there. That’s far better than Pope.

Who were these miraculous players UVS got post NIL in 2021 that really changed the program to elite?

Funny thing is Pope has the same NIL and isn't performing, but sure, that was the difference at UVS. Lmao.

So now you back track from LYING and claiming they won the WAC Conference Tournament 2 years after Pope, to (correctly) saying they tied for 1st in the regular season conference 2 years removed from Pope after I proved you wrong. Try to slide the goalposts however you want. You lied. Liars suck. You lose. Take the L.

Mark Pope coaches in the WAC currently? lmao If UK played Utah Valley's schedule they "might" lose one game a year. You are trying awful hard to make a case for yourself.

The top 3 scorers for Utah Valley that year were all Transfers.
Fardaws Aimaq (Mercer Transfer) 6'11" JR 245 F averaged 18.9 ppg, 13.6 rbs, 1.7 ast
Connor Harding (BYU Transfer) 6'6" JR 185 G averaged 10.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.8 ast
Justin Harmon (JUCO - Barton CC, Kansas Transfer) 6'4" SO 180 G averaged 10.9 ppg, 3.8 rbs, 1.4 ast

But that had nothing to do with NIL right?

PastorofMuppets82 · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
How long was Pope at UVS? If he was there 4, why do only 3 count now?

He was atrocious but tied for first in his conference in yr 2? Something Pope never did in 4?

Who did they get post NIL that really changed the program? What was their NIL budget and expenses to players?

It's not at all. Particularly a place like UVS that we both know isn't competing for players with NIL money. Lulz. If so, show us the proof!

Also, the 1st place tie was prior to NIL, right? And the coach prior to pope who also won the conference and went to the NIT prior to NIL, what is the excuse for that?

Is an 11-11 overall record not atrocious? If you were 11-11 in your court cases would you be a world beater?

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

PastorofMuppets82 said:
So now you back track from LYING and claiming they won the WAC Conference Tournament 2 years after Pope, to (correctly) saying they tied for 1st in the regular season conference 2 years removed from Pope after I proved you wrong. Try to slide the goalposts however you want. You lied. Liars suck. You lose. Take the L.

Mark Pope coaches in the WAC currently? lmao If UK played Utah Valley's schedule they "might" lose one game a year. You are trying awful hard to make a case for yourself.

The top 3 scorers for Utah Valley that year were all Transfers.
Fardaws Aimaq (Mercer Transfer) 6'11" JR 245 F averaged 18.9 ppg, 13.6 rbs, 1.7 ast
Connor Harding (BYU Transfer) 6'6" JR 185 G averaged 10.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.8 ast
Justin Harmon (JUCO - Barton CC, Kansas Transfer) 6'4" SO 180 G averaged 10.9 ppg, 3.8 rbs, 1.4 ast

But that had nothing to do with NIL right?

Not at all. He still won the conference by tying for 1st. Did Pope ever do that? You've only interated my point.

Who said he coaches there currently?

Lol, with Pope coaching? Lmao. Sure, bud! The guy who performed worse than his predecessor and successor?

Did they not take transfers before NIL. What were the NIL deals?

How did NIL help the coach prior to Pope and the one who tied for 1st in the conference before NIL?

Also, do the other teams not get to utilize NIL now, too?

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

PastorofMuppets82 said:
Is an 11-11 overall record not atrocious? If you were 11-11 in your court cases would you be a world beater?

When you are first at the seasons end, are you really worried about the season record?

Is 1st still not better than Pope did?

PastorofMuppets82 · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
Not at all. He still won the conference by tying for 1st. Did Pope ever do that? You've only interated my point.

Who said he coaches there currently?

Lol, with Pope coaching? Lmao. Sure, bud! The guy who performed worse than his predecessor and successor?

Did they not take transfers before NIL. What were the NIL deals?

How did NIL help the coach prior to Pope and the one who tied for 1st in the conference before NIL?

I haven't interated your point (Not a real word by the way, but cool point for trying). You LIED and claimed he won the Conference TOURNAMENT. They did not. Game set match. Everything else is just a smoke screen for you being full of ****. Nice try though. Moving on.

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

PastorofMuppets82 said:
I haven't interated your point (Not a real word by the way, but cool point for trying). You LIED and claimed he won the Conference TOURNAMENT. They did not. Game set match. Everything else is just a smoke screen for you being full of ****. Nice try though. Moving on.

Iterate since you're obviously struggling.

When spelling becomes your argument, that let's everyone know you've already lost on substance.

Not at all. He still tied for first in the conference. Did Pope ever?

You claimed they weren't better before or after Pope, but they won the conference and went to the NIT both before and after Pope, but never during Pope's tenure. That's the game set match, boss.

PastorofMuppets82 · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
When you are first at the seasons end, are you really worried about the season record?

Is 1st still not better than Pope did?

That's not what I asked. Keep moving the goalposts because you can't defend your position. You have yet to make a good faith discussion out of anything discussed here and are frankly getting tiresome at this point.

Maybe we should just count up your losses at this point and call it a season for you?

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

PastorofMuppets82 said:
That's not what I asked. Keep moving the goalposts because you can't defend your position. You have yet to make a good faith discussion out of anything discussed here and are frankly getting tiresome at this point.

Maybe we should just count up your losses at this point and call it a season for you?

What goalposts were moved?

My position has been easily defended.

My position was they were better before and after Pope. The proof is in the facts, boss.

See those yellow lines before and after Pope, what are they for?

See the NIT next to certain years before and after Pope? What does that mean? Why doesn't Pope have any?

That can't be refuted!

PastorofMuppets82 · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
Iterate since you're obviously struggling.

View attachment 1419813

When spelling becomes your argument, that let's everyone know you've already lost on substance.

Not at all. He still tied for first in the conference. Did Pope ever?

You claimed they weren't better before or after Pope, but they won the conference and went to the NIT both before and after Pope, but never during. That's the game set match brother.

Oh I'm fully aware iterate is a real word. But whatever the hell you typed, again, continues to make your rebuttals and half truths and lies look even worse. You look sloppy, uneducated, and not worth taking seriously when you continue to make grammatical errors. It's unprofessional in its appearance and frankly, reflects poorly on someone who should care more about the details (like any actual attorney would). Your only defense to your poor performance with grammar and spelling is to attack me for correcting you. Maybe more effort should be spent improving yourself instead of worrying about me?

I didn't claim they weren't better before or after Pope. You created that out of thin air to try and defend your claim that EVERY program was better after Pope left. What happened before he got there is irrelevant to that discussion which is I why I didn't mention it. There is no point in arguing it because that wasn't the claim. Then you stumbled and claimed they won the Conference Tournament title two years later, (which they did not), got dunked on, and have been trying to lob a full assault to save face ever since. Another bad faith attempt on your part. At this point, there is zero point in continuing to discuss with you. You make a wild claim, it gets proven wrong, you deviate and lob new accusations and never admit you made a mistake or were incorrect. It's pretty clear you are either a narcissist or very committed to protecting your self image. Either way, I'm out. You've spent 3 days being wrong. Time to let someone else smack you around.

gracetoyou · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
So they knew, but didn't know and he was for sure BYUs because of the do not contact, but he not enough that they didn't feel they could flip him?

Did I cover all that?

He requested to visit. UK was the ONLY school he would talk to or visit hence the do not contact card. How is this hard to understand?? No coach anywhere would not "try".

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

PastorofMuppets82 said:
Oh I'm fully aware iterate is a real word. But whatever the hell you typed, again, continues to make your rebuttals and half truths and lies look even worse. You look sloppy, uneducated, and not worth taking seriously when you continue to make grammatical errors. It's unprofessional in its appearance and frankly, reflects poorly on someone who should care more about the details (like any actual attorney would). Your only defense to your poor performance with grammar and spelling is to attack me for correcting you. Maybe more effort should be spent improving yourself instead of worrying about me?

I didn't claim they weren't better before or after Pope. You created that out of thin air to try and defend your claim that EVERY program was better after Pope left. What happened before he got there is irrelevant to that discussion which is I why I didn't mention it. There is no point in arguing it because that wasn't the claim. Then you stumbled and claimed they won the Conference Tournament title two years later, (which they did not), got dunked on, and have been trying to lob a full assault to save face ever since. Another bad faith attempt on your part. At this point, there is zero point in continuing to discuss with you. You make a wild claim, it gets proven wrong, you deviate and lob new accusations and never admit you made a mistake or were incorrect. It's pretty clear you are either a narcissist or very committed to protecting your self image. Either way, I'm out. You've spent 3 days being wrong. Time to let someone else smack you around.

1 extra letter confused you that much?

You keep responding to me though. Seems odd for someone you think is uneducated, sloppy and not worth taking seriously as you claim. That really says more about you than me.

I get it though. Spelling and grammar of are high importance on rafters and negate everything. Obviously people typing quickly on cellphones should be taking time to spellcheck everything because it's so important.

Correct me all you want, it just shows your actual argument lacks substance and you have to resort to other things. It's very transparent.

Sure you did! You've said it multiple times in this thread.

I've consistently maintained both programs were better before and after Pope. That's irrefutable.

They won the conference, correct? Did Pope?

How did I get embarrassed or "lob a full assault"? What face am I trying to save?

I get it! Your claims have all been disproven and now you’re claiming you didn't make statements you did make and that you never claimed both schools actually weren't better before and after Pope. That has literally been the argument for 3 days now.

I would probably stop, too. Particularly if I was taking your stances.

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

gracetoyou said:
He requested to visit. UK was the ONLY school he would talk to or visit hence the do not contact card. How is this hard to understand?? No coach anywhere would not "try".

So he requested to visit, but the staff was pretty much assured he was going back to BYU and didn't have much of a chance, but they wanted to host him anyway to shoot their shot for a player they were pretty aure was going back to BYU. He had a do not contact because he intended to go to BYU. But then the staff wanted to get into a public bidding war they would likely lose anyway?

This makes no sense. Either it's a lie or Pope and co are bigger morons than most thought. Which do you prefer?

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

gracetoyou said:
He requested to visit. UK was the ONLY school he would talk to or visit hence the do not contact card. How is this hard to understand?? No coach anywhere would not "try".

Ok, so UK got themselves played is what you're saying. They willfully participated in it.

Kantucke_rivals · Sep 4, 2026

They'll write books about it

gracetoyou · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
Ok, so UK got themselves played is what you're saying. They willfully participated in it.

You're too dumb & unrealistic to talk to. Go back to your ignorance room while the adults do adult things. The only "played" perspective is all the morons on social media, like Jeff Goodman, who knew nothing about the situation & was saying "Pope would have to work hard to mess this up". Jeff had surface info like:
-Wright's family wandered him closer
-BYU would not pay up
-No contact tag & wanted to visit UK

So his conclusion was UK must be in driver's seat. With it being about UK, this got massive social media attention & raised fanbase expectations, when in reality that was never the case. Fans fell apart with "Whiff Pope" stupidity. Any college coach in Pope's shoes would have welcomed a visit from Wright & try like Pope did.

Thanks! Play again sometime!

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

Ohh, so it was all Goodman's fault even though you said it was UK who knew he was guaranteed to stay at BYU, but that they wanted to see if they could miraculously flip him, even though you claimed they knew he was really just trying to get more out of BYU? And that UK never really felt they had a shot but wanted to be embarrassed on a national stage, and this is all Goodman and social media's fault?

Did I sum that up correctly?

How does this same situation keep happening with Pope? That Goodman and social media's fault, too?

Hmm.....you know what might make all this more believable is proof. You have any?

gracetoyou · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
Ohh, so it was all Goodman's fault even though you said it was UK who knew he was guaranteed to stay at BYU, but that they wanted to see if they could miraculously flip him, even though you claimed they knew he was really just trying to get more out of BYU? And that UK never really felt they had a shot but wanted to be embarrassed on a national stage, and this is all Goodman and social media's fault?

Did I sum that up correctly?

How does this same situation keep happening with Pope? That Goodman and social media's fault, too?

Hmm.....you know what might make all this more believable is proof. You have any?

Maybe if you could read. I never said anything about "guranteed" to stay at BYU. I said they knew he was wanting to stay & leaning towards a BYU return.

Like I said, I can tell you're a poster that its a complete waste of time to discuss anuthing with. I will go back to the big boy board.

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

gracetoyou said:
Maybe if you could read. I never said anything about "guranteed" to stay at BYU. I said they knew he was wanting to stay & leaning towards a BYU return.

Like I said, I can tell you're a poster that its a complete waste of time to discuss anuthing with. I will go back to the big boy board.

Here was your post, bud?

#1 UK did NOT ever think they would get Wright. They simply kicked the tires. Most of that perception is from media reading the tea leaves & thinking UK was a leader. Wright's family wanted him to visit UK & be closer to their Atlanta home. Wright only visited for family favor & at agent recommendation...UK knew this but why not kick the tires? Wright's agent used visit to get more money out of BYU.

So UK didn't think they would ever get him, kicked tires, media made up that UK was ever in it, pope and Co knew they weren't according to you.

Only visited UK as favor and recommendation to get more money. UK knew this but why not kick tires.

But it wasn't a guarantee????

gracetoyou · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
Here was your post, bud?

#1 UK did NOT ever think they would get Wright. They simply kicked the tires. Most of that perception is from media reading the tea leaves & thinking UK was a leader. Wright's family wanted him to visit UK & be closer to their Atlanta home. Wright only visited for family favor & at agent recommendation...UK knew this but why not kick the tires? Wright's agent used visit to get more money out of BYU.

So UK didn't think they would ever get him, kicked tires, media made up that UK was ever in it, pope and Co knew they weren't according to you.

Only visited UK as favor and recommendation to get more money. UK knew this but why not kick tires.

But it wasn't a guarantee????

I said: "But it WASN'T guaranteed".
Can you read???

YOUR POST:
Ohh, so it was all Goodman's fault even though you said it was UK who knew he was guaranteed to stay at BYU, but that they wanted to see if they could miraculously flip him, even though you claimed they knew he was really just trying to get more out of BYU? And that UK never really felt they had a shot but wanted to be embarrassed on a national stage, and this is all Goodman and social media's fault?

Did I sum that up correctly?

How does this same situation keep happening with Pope? That Goodman and social media's fault, too?

Hmm.....you know what might make all this more believable is proof. You have any?

Cattorney · Sep 4, 2026

gracetoyou said:
I said: "But it WASN'T guaranteed".
Can you read???

YOUR POST:
Ohh, so it was all Goodman's fault even though you said it was UK who knew he was guaranteed to stay at BYU, but that they wanted to see if they could miraculously flip him, even though you claimed they knew he was really just trying to get more out of BYU? And that UK never really felt they had a shot but wanted to be embarrassed on a national stage, and this is all Goodman and social media's fault?

Did I sum that up correctly?

How does this same situation keep happening with Pope? That Goodman and social media's fault, too?

Hmm.....you know what might make all this more believable is proof. You have any?

"Uk did NOT think they would ever get Wright."
That's not a guarantee?

"Wright only visited for family favor & at agent recommendation...UK knew this but why not kick the tires?" That's not a guarantee?

These are your words, bud.

JPFisher · Sep 4, 2026

Boosters? Hell, I'm broker than a square body Ford left in a field since 93 and I'm tired.

Drogon · Sep 4, 2026

This has been a very interating discussion.

Son_Of_Saul · Sep 4, 2026

Even if we grant the Pope deflectors the idea that UK knew Wright was a stretch from the onset, what about Collins, Holt, Stokes, and 11 other top 20 kids they missed on in one cycle without even a single success from that clas? What about Kusturica? What about Freeman? What about Dent last year, or Yaxel, or Caleb Wilson, or Acaden Lewis, or Chaz Lanier and Wilkerson and all the other primary targets Pope routinely misses on?

Almost every starting player Pope has brought to UK has been a secondary or third-level target. Pope absolutely sucks at landing primary targets.

UKBB4Ever · Sep 4, 2026

Son_Of_Saul said:
Even if we grant the Pope deflectors the idea that UK knew Wright was a stretch from the onset, what about Collins, Holt, Stokes, and 11 other top 20 kids they missed on in one cycle without even a single success from that clas? What about Kusturica? What about Freeman? What about Dent last year, or Yaxel, or Caleb Wilson, or Acaden Lewis, or Chaz Lanier and Wilkerson and all the other primary targets Pope routinely misses on?

Almost every starting player Pope has brought to UK has been a secondary or third-level target. Pope absolutely sucks at landing primary targets.

And UK pays more money than anyone.

His problem is not money. One more season, if not sooner, and we can start the rebuild.

Choosing right the next time and it will be a quick rebuild.

bnewt5 · Sep 4, 2026

Cattorney said:
I don't think they have a law school, boss. Lulz. Again, trying way too hard.

Salary doesn't really indicate how your career is going. It just dictates how much you get paid. A lot of people are overpaid and underperforming. Again, make your jokes make sense. They may actually land then.

Yes, he got with a bafoon like Barney, worked out a horrible contract that pays him way too much for very little in return. Then he continues to take it while underperforming.

You seem very angry with me for some reason. Why is that?

"Over paid and underperforming"
The new uk standard for players and coaches

Loucatfan30 · Sep 4, 2026

Son_Of_Saul said:
Even if we grant the Pope deflectors the idea that UK knew Wright was a stretch from the onset, what about Collins, Holt, Stokes, and 11 other top 20 kids they missed on in one cycle without even a single success from that clas? What about Kusturica? What about Freeman? What about Dent last year, or Yaxel, or Caleb Wilson, or Acaden Lewis, or Chaz Lanier and Wilkerson and all the other primary targets Pope routinely misses on?

Almost every starting player Pope has brought to UK has been a secondary or third-level target. Pope absolutely sucks at landing primary targets.

It's not even up for debate anymore. He is the worst recruiter all time at Kentucky and he can even pay big money to get players. I read somewhere he had like 23 offers out to high school players right now. How can any of the players get a feel if they are truly wanted or not? It would be confusing to potential recruits when they can read all the same things we can see about all these offers. It recks of a person throwing sh@@ against a wall to see what sticks. Nobody wants to be the sh@@ thrown. Then you got out last minute to try and add a player over the top of others players recruited so now other coaches will be able to say you can't trust him look what he just tried to do with Mitchell.

The boosters must be fatigued at this point.

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