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Oh How We’ve Grown

troutrus

troutrus

All-Conference
Oct 7, 2021
859
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I was thinking about my days at University Park and how successful our teams were at that time. Lots of excitement during the seasons for sure.
Players living in dorms like everyday students. They used to be referred to as Student-Athletes.
Dug out this old game program and noticed many players were significantly smaller than current players, so it’s quite obvious that players are bigger these days.
Beaver Stadium at the time was at 48,000 seats, so we know that it has gotten much bigger.
I understood that at the time, scholarship players received free education plus a small stipend for incidentals. Though there were some players that were believed to be receiving some additional benefits, it was low key and in no way compared with today’s NIL $$$$$. So we know that player benefits are much bigger.
Hype has gotten bigger with 24 hr sports channels, internet, and every game being televised.
So with everything getting BIGGER, I keep wondering why my excitement for a new season and the opening game seems to be waning.
With that said, as long as the games are televised on one of my included channels, I’m sure I’ll be sitting on my couch watching, leaning into tackles, cursing, pissing and moaning along with the rest of the fans.
We ARE !!


IMG_1943.jpegIMG_1942.jpegIMG_1946.jpeg
 
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F

fairgambit

All-American
Aug 20, 2010
2,440
7,510
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troutrus said:
I was thinking about my days at University Park and how successful our teams were at that time. Lots of excitement during the seasons for sure.
Players living in dorms like everyday students. They used to be referred to as Student-Athletes.
Dug out this old game program and noticed many players were significantly smaller than current players, so it’s quite obvious that players are bigger these days.
Beaver Stadium at the time was at 48,000 seats, so we know that it has gotten much bigger.
I understood that at the time, scholarship players received free education plus a small stipend for incidentals. Though there were some players that were believed to be receiving some additional benefits, it was low key and in no way compared with today’s NIL $$$$$. So we know that player benefits are much bigger.
Hype has gotten bigger with 24 hr sports channels, internet, and every game being televised.
So with everything getting BIGGER, I keep wondering why my excitement for a new season and the opening game seems to be waning.
With that said, as long as the games are televised on one of my included channels, I’m sure I’ll be sitting on my couch watching, leaning into tackles, cursing, pissing and moaning along with the rest of the fans.
We ARE !!


View attachment 1420565View attachment 1420566View attachment 1420567
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Once there was a place of true student athletes called "Happy Valley". In this idyllic world, the Golden Age of College Football took its final bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Football Players who attended class, got a Degree, and played for the "Glory of Dear Old State". Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a "Grand Experiment" gone with the wind...
 
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J

JWB389

All-Conference
May 16, 2017
1,046
1,330
113
fairgambit said:
Once there was a place of true student athletes called "Happy Valley". In this idyllic world, the Golden Age of College Football took its final bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Football Players who attended class, got a Degree, and played for the "Glory of Dear Old State". Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a "Grand Experiment" gone with the wind...
Click to expand...
That era will return. Probably not in my lifetime, but some day it will be back.
 
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B

Bob2022

Redshirt
Mar 15, 2022
26
25
3
The '1969 Orange Bowl against Missouri was the first PSU game I saw. The Eagles sucked
and I was looking for something else. In Philly channel 6 I believe was replaying Penn Quaker games on
sundays and i thought that was fun. Then I stumbled across the Orange bowl on New Years Night and I was hooked
on college football. I was 10.
 
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G

G3624

Senior
Feb 18, 2014
534
452
63
Unfortunately, I think the toothpaste is out of the tube. The farts been had.
 
O

olelion

Senior
Jun 10, 2001
2,704
871
113
fairgambit said:
Once there was a place of true student athletes called "Happy Valley". In this idyllic world, the Golden Age of College Football took its final bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Football Players who attended class, got a Degree, and played for the "Glory of Dear Old State". Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a "Grand Experiment" gone with the wind...
Click to expand...
Careful now, Lando will be on you like a cheap suit for being naive enough to think that such a time existed
 
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K

KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
7,024
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olelion said:
Careful now, Lando will be on you like a cheap suit for being naive enough to think that such a time existed
Click to expand...
The Grand Experiment never truly existed but I understand none of you are going to accept that reality
People, including myself, always make the past sound better than it was--that's human nature.
 
PSU Soupy 615

PSU Soupy 615

Junior
Aug 3, 2008
178
349
63
KingLando said:
The Grand Experiment never truly existed but I understand none of you are going to accept that reality
People, including myself, always make the past sound better than it was--that's human nature.
Click to expand...
not sure if it was a grand experiment.....but it was more of a real college experience for the football players than a lot of the teams that we competed against. I did go to engineering classes with a number of the 1982 - 1987 players. some were very good students.

The team did go to real classes, they did participate.........it was different from how most programs operated.
 
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KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
7,024
3,999
113
PSU Soupy 615 said:
not sure if it was a grand experiment.....but it was more of a real college experience for the football players than a lot of the teams that we competed against. I did go to engineering classes with a number of the 1982 - 1987 players. some were very good students.

The team did go to real classes, they did participate.........it was different from how most programs operated.
Click to expand...
The bold is an opinion--I'm sure many players on opposing team would disagree with your statement.
Some are very good students at all programs--it's always been about the "player/student" and what they wanted.
There's been plenty of guys at Penn State that had no business being on campus (at any college/university) and wouldn't have been without football. They didn't care--they just wanted to play ball and took the classes so they could.
 
K

KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
7,024
3,999
113
bdgan said:
On what planet?
Click to expand...
Maybe it awaits him in heaven as he said not in this life time???
If he actually thinks it will or can happen on Earth this may be the most insane post about football on this board.
 
B

bdgan

All-American
Oct 12, 2021
5,319
5,163
113
KingLando said:
The Grand Experiment never truly existed but I understand none of you are going to accept that reality
People, including myself, always make the past sound better than it was--that's human nature.
Click to expand...
You're wrong. Over the years I had the opportunity to talk with a players, coaches, and academic advisors. I've been in the Lasch Building where things are plastered all over the place about Success With Honor and the focus on academics. I've read Joe's speech to the BOT in 1983 after winning the national championship where he was more focused on academics than the title.

PSU wasn't the only school that was concerned about academics and teaching kids right from wrong but Joe was certainly a leader in that area. Suspending kids for academic reasons was a real thing. Today's players often don't even attend classes because they can take them online.

Sure we are nostalgic for the good old days and make them sound better than they were. But some things WERE better. Family values were better. Personal responsibility was better. And while players in the 70s might have taken easy classes and received other perks they were also expected to do well in class. Today it's much more about the money and much less about academics. It's sad that you can't see it.
 
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KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
7,024
3,999
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bdgan said:
You're wrong. Over the years I had the opportunity to talk with a players, coaches, and academic advisors. I've been in the Lasch Building where things are plastered all over the place about Success With Honor and the focus on academics. I've read Joe's speech to the BOT in 1983 after winning the national championship where he was more focused on academics than the title.

PSU wasn't the only school that was concerned about academics and teaching kids right from wrong but Joe was certainly a leader in that area. Suspending kids for academic reasons was a real thing. Today's players soften don't even attend classes because they can take them online.

Sure we are nostalgic for the good old days and make them sound better than they were. But some things WERE better. Family values were better. Personal responsibility was better. And while players in the 70s might have taken easy classes and received other perks they were expected to do well in class. Today it's much more about the money and much less about academics. It's sad that you can't see it.
Click to expand...

Who said it wasn't "more about money"--of course it is--they get paid by NIL but nothing has changed in the fact--those that want an education will get a good one wherever they decide to go to school--those that don't care will do what they're required to do. Everyone can be angry about that but that's nostalgia by definition--you (and others) are longing for the days with different roles

Paterno and Penn State were not better than everyone else. This nonsense is why so many loved watching Paterno's fall. All programs were suspending kids for academics--some just weren't consistent with it. Like Miami wasn't going to suspend Michael Irvin but would someone buried on the depth chart.

Comparing the two eras is changing the discussion--I said the Grand Experiment never really existed in reality. It didn't, it existed to lower expectations--Paterno was very intelligent but it was always about football.
 
ApexLion

ApexLion

Heisman
Nov 1, 2021
6,386
10,853
113
KingLando said:
The Grand Experiment never truly existed but I understand none of you are going to accept that reality
People, including myself, always make the past sound better than it was--that's human nature.
Click to expand...
Sorry bs. I played a sport and worked at PSU in the athletic dept and then later worked in college athletics traveling around the country. Tell your stories to the thousands who experienced the grand experiment firsthand as d1 athletes at PSU. They will laugh at you. I’d also recommend doing some reading to more fully understand Paterno’s background and why he ‘tilted’ at windmills and succeeded.
 
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KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
7,024
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ApexLion said:
Sorry bs. I played a sport and worked at PSU in the athletic dept and then later worked in college athletics traveling around the country. Tell your stories to the thousands who experienced the grand experiment firsthand as d1 athletes at PSU. They will laugh at you. I’d also recommend doing some reading to more fully understand Paterno’s background and why he ‘tilted’ at windmills and succeeded.
Click to expand...
I fully understand what happened and I fully understand why you & others want to believe your experience was unique. We're back to nostalgia and wanted to believe what we lived was special.
 
L

LMTLION

All-Conference
Mar 20, 2008
1,968
4,022
112
Imagine a guy like Tyler Warren transported back in time on that team. He would be larger and faster than literally everybody else.
 
C

Chumboshifko1

All-Conference
Oct 15, 2025
2,761
2,902
113
KingLando said:
Who said it wasn't "more about money"--of course it is--they get paid by NIL but nothing has changed in the fact--those that want an education will get a good one wherever they decide to go to school--those that don't care will do what they're required to do. Everyone can be angry about that but that's nostalgia by definition--you (and others) are longing for the days with different roles

Paterno and Penn State were not better than everyone else. This nonsense is why so many loved watching Paterno's fall. All programs were suspending kids for academics--some just weren't consistent with it. Like Miami wasn't going to suspend Michael Irvin but would someone buried on the depth chart.

Comparing the two eras is changing the discussion--I said the Grand Experiment never really existed in reality. It didn't, it existed to lower expectations--Paterno was very intelligent but it was always about football.
Click to expand...

What a worthless clown you are.
 
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NEPA Lion

NEPA Lion

Sophomore
Nov 2, 2021
119
181
43
Went to the Maryland game that year on a high school trip, cold with a dusting of snow that
day. Walked around the track while i was standing behind the PS bench Mike Reid had the
strip fumble recovery.
It seemed to me at the time and age, TV and the national media didn't have weekly opinion
as much as today. The South and Midwest viewed Eastern football as Ivy League. I was watching a
sleeping giant of a team rise to national prominence before my eyes.
 
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CVLion

All-Conference
Oct 13, 2021
1,120
2,272
113
KingLando said:
Who said it wasn't "more about money"--of course it is--they get paid by NIL but nothing has changed in the fact--those that want an education will get a good one wherever they decide to go to school--those that don't care will do what they're required to do. Everyone can be angry about that but that's nostalgia by definition--you (and others) are longing for the days with different roles

Paterno and Penn State were not better than everyone else. This nonsense is why so many loved watching Paterno's fall. All programs were suspending kids for academics--some just weren't consistent with it. Like Miami wasn't going to suspend Michael Irvin but would someone buried on the depth chart.

Comparing the two eras is changing the discussion--I said the Grand Experiment never really existed in reality. It didn't, it existed to lower expectations--Paterno was very intelligent but it was always about football.
Click to expand...

I agree that some fans make it out in their minds that certain aspects of years gone by in PSU football were better than they were. Of course that happens.

But the notion that “the Grand Experiment never really existed” is a ridiculous assertion and unfair to Joe’s legacy.

Your Michael Irvin example actually helps prove how different Joe was. Miami suspending only someone buried on the depth chart is a transparent facade and counts for nothing. In the 97 season, Joe Jurevicius was the closest thing we had to a Michael Irvin, and JoePa kept him out of the bowl game when he WAS still academically elegible, but hadn’t met Paterno’s higher academic standard. And this even with SuitGate going on — any other coach would have let Jurevicius play to help compensate for the loss of Enis.
 
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K

KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
7,024
3,999
113
CVLion said:
I agree that some fans make it out in their minds that certain aspects of years gone by in PSU football were better than they were. Of course that happens.

But the notion that “the Grand Experiment never really existed” is a ridiculous assertion and unfair to Joe’s legacy.

Your Michael Irvin example actually helps prove how different Joe was. Miami suspending only someone buried on the depth chart is a transparent facade and counts for nothing. In the 97 season, Joe Jurevicius was the closest thing we had to a Michael Irvin, and JoePa kept him out of the bowl game when he WAS still academically elegible, but hadn’t met Paterno’s higher academic standard. And this even with SuitGate going on — any other coach would have let Jurevicius play to help compensate for the loss of Enis.
Click to expand...
We know my thoughts on bowl games so I'm not impressed by sitting a guy out of a bowl game that didn't have an impact to the national title. I get what you're saying and I'm fine with you giving Joe credit for that but that's true for most programs. Miami was the exception not the rule.

I think what hurts Joe's legacy nationally more than anything is those in our base that act as though what he did was unique and that everyone was else who had success was cheating. Joe was an elite coach and person--but there was no Grand Experiment. I'm fine with others wanting to believe in it but it only was discussed to lower expectations--and it worked amazingly well.
 
LionJim

LionJim

Heisman
Oct 12, 2021
16,298
22,438
113
NEPA Lion said:
Went to the Maryland game that year on a high school trip, cold with a dusting of snow that
day. Walked around the track while i was standing behind the PS bench Mike Reid had the
strip fumble recovery.
It seemed to me at the time and age, TV and the national media didn't have weekly opinion
as much as today. The South and Midwest viewed Eastern football as Ivy League. I was watching a
sleeping giant of a team rise to national prominence before my eyes.
Click to expand...
I remember the track. I remember walking around the track sometime in the 1977 season with a friend who was asking me “What are you doing? What are your plans for your future? You’re just spinning your wheels here.” It was pretty much right then and there that I decided to leave PSU. Sometimes your best friends are the ones who won’t tolerate your BS.
 
9

94LionsFan

Senior
Sep 27, 2023
227
427
63
KingLando said:
Joe was an elite coach and person--but there was no Grand Experiment. I'm fine with others wanting to believe in it but it only was discussed to lower expectations--and it worked amazingly well.
Click to expand...
I could understand criticizing Joe for being holier than thou. Or you could say that we weren’t actually much different from other programs. But you’ve twice now said that his talk of a Grand Experiment was just a ploy to insulate himself against criticism during bad seasons. I’m sorry, that’s batshit crazy.

That term first appeared in the late 60s, at a time when he was leading the team to undefeated seasons. You think he was looking ahead to a time when he wasn’t winning, so he could say, “Cut me a break. It’s really hard to win AND have good students?”

You just referred to him as an elite person. If what you’re saying is true, wouldn’t he be a fraud?
 
K

KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
7,024
3,999
113
94LionsFan said:
I could understand criticizing Joe for being holier than thou. Or you could say that we weren’t actually much different from other programs. But you’ve twice now said that his talk of a Grand Experiment was just a ploy to insulate himself against criticism during bad seasons. I’m sorry, that’s batshit crazy.

That term first appeared in the late 60s, at a time when he was leading the team to undefeated seasons. You think he was looking ahead to a time when he wasn’t winning, so he could say, “Cut me a break. It’s really hard to win AND have good students?”

You just referred to him as an elite person. If what you’re saying is true, wouldn’t he be a fraud?
Click to expand...
I'll play...
Did Joe survive many bad seasons at Penn State that other coaches wouldn't have? Even high profile coaches...Osborne never won less than 9. Saban won double digits every year after his first at Bama. Our base accepted less because we did things the "right way". Right?

Wouldn't a man as smart as Joe realize that when you're having undefeated seasons that likely will become the expectation?

Did Joe always plan ahead...on and off the field?

Not sure why you think this makes him a fraud. He told the base what they wanted to hear...he sold a product and himself. He wasn't perfect nor a saint...like all of us. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great man.
 
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