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OT: College enrollment and financial issues?

bigmatt718

bigmatt718

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Rutgers Chris said:
Interesting that one of the co-authors of the piece is a Syracuse alum, tagged here.
Click to expand...

Cuse has no business costing $90K a year when the only thing the school excels at academically is Comm. The school cant consider itself among the Ivy Lites like USC, Vandy, NW, etc., and then justify costing Ivy Lite tuition when they suck at STEM and business.
 
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B

Bueller

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Leonard23 said:
Here's a free version of the full article:

Click to expand...



SU prof on reddit is blaming excessive administrative costs similar to what happened at local schools. I recall an article about Stanford having one administrator for every student. I also see people blaming a birth rate decline but I see more to it since Zoomers aren't way off other gens. . SU's student population specifically has increased over a decade and not decreased. Part of that will be increase of 10% online students who pay less per credit and no dorm etc costs. SU also had 18% foreign students in 2020 and that was 5% in 2025.

I think its been destructive to raise tuition/dorm costs to 90k and squeezing Americans out while compensating with students from China with a government that pays tuition (for students who have be interrogated about what they learned.)

Closer to home, NY State has been replacing its native populations (some specifically told they have no place in NY) with an imported sector that doesn't care about 4 year college degrees. My local HS went from 9% Hispanic to 75% over 15 yrs and most of them dont care about college, They are very entrepreneurial and even have their own informal "banking system" for funds.

Then you have the amputation of specific males from college bodies. SUNY (State University of New York) has 214,000 4 year students and they are now 61% female (places like New Paltz are 66%)., SU undergrads are 56% female (RU = 54% according to RU page). US colleges have been stacking the decks financially and ideologically against some of its own people while compensating with foreigner students with funding from from oppositional governments. I don't have a lot of sympathy for most colleges (who also saved money hiring adjuncts often not allowed to use copiers). A lot of the excessive administrators are in place for "therapeutic coddling" and "narrative culturing" (a euphemism)

I don't like ratings because they are slanted. I think there should be rankings for entrepreneurial success and not so much just on jobs/pay. Someone has to create the jobs. Seems like Harvard's dropouts do more than than the Wall St grifters who like to camo-up with prestige degrees ("Flash Boys" author Michael Lewis said Wall St is a place where smart grads go to be stupid) .
 
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Knight Shift

Knight Shift

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Leonard23 said:
Here's a free version of the full article:

Click to expand...

Comments under that story are the usual political bickering about woke/non-woke stuff. That aside, this stands out:

the # of administrators at Syracuse grew from 148 in 1987 to over almost 800 in 2011, and is surely far higher today. Enrollment only grew by 28% over that time.

During and after Covid, number of administrators and Deans of silly things really blew up.
 
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A

Anon1754923206

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Bueller said:
SU prof on reddit is blaming excessive administrative costs similar to what happened at local schools. I recall an article about Stanford having one administrator for every student. I also see people blaming a birth rate decline but I see more to it since Zoomers aren't way off other gens. . SU's student population specifically has increased over a decade and not decreased. Part of that will be increase of 10% online students who pay less per credit and no dorm etc costs. SU also had 18% foreign students in 2020 and that was 5% in 2025.

I think its been destructive to raise tuition/dorm costs to 90k and squeezing Americans out while compensating with students from China with a government that pays tuition (for students who have be interrogated about what they learned.)

Closer to home, NY State has been replacing its native populations (some specifically told they have no place in NY) with an imported sector that doesn't care about 4 year college degrees. My local HS went from 9% Hispanic to 75% over 15 yrs and most of them dont care about college, They are very entrepreneurial and even have their own informal "banking system" for funds.

Then you have the amputation of specific males from college bodies. SUNY (State University of New York) has 214,000 4 year students and they are now 61% female (places like New Paltz are 66%)., SU undergrads are 56% female (RU = 54% according to RU page). US colleges have been stacking the decks financially and ideologically against some of its own people while compensating with foreigner students with funding from from oppositional governments. I don't have a lot of sympathy for most colleges (who also saved money hiring adjuncts often not allowed to use copiers). A lot of the excessive administrators are in place for "therapeutic coddling" and "narrative culturing" (a euphemism)

I don't like ratings because they are slanted. I think there should be rankings for entrepreneurial success and not so much just on jobs/pay. Someone has to create the jobs. Seems like Harvard's dropouts do more than than the Wall St grifters who like to camo-up with prestige degrees ("Flash Boys" author Michael Lewis said Wall St is a place where smart grads go to be stupid) .
Click to expand...
Disturbing but unsurprising
 
RUTGERS95

RUTGERS95

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35,033
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Knight Shift said:
He did say something about size of the student body mattered, and that makes sense. Our youngest quickly eliminated Rutgers for that reason, and chose a much smaller private school in Connecticut that is not as "prestigious" but very solid in the chosen major and generally in that area-health sciences. IDGAS about how jobs are plentiful in the area. The experience there has been phenomenal, and would not have been matched at Rutgers, in our humble opinion.
Click to expand...
totally get that but kids learn quickly, the size of the school matters less the more time in as it shrinks. But to your point and with your son, some kids will flourish in smaller setting, no doubt. Kids need to pick the school for them and need to be smart about it; sounds like yours is smart and knows his path:)
 
RUTGERS95

RUTGERS95

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Fat Koko said:
Similar situation with my oldest kid who moves into Fairfield next week. I brought him to College Ave campus and downtown New Brunswick many times. He had no interest. With merit scholarship at Fairfield, it is less than Rutgers in-state and SUNY, as long as GPA is >2.8. That will be easy for him.

Kid is very in tune with the situation on college campuses and wanted somewhere with a moderate to conservative environment which most Catholic schools have.

Trade off is the course offering is much bigger at Rutgers, maybe the biggest in the Northeast. I will pitch this prospective students, many of them undecided on majors, if Rutgers ever gets back to me on running a Rutgers table at Long Island college fairs.
Click to expand...
my kids have zero interest in Rutgers, they are 'Rutgers'd out' as they say (football, baseball, basketball and volleyball) as they've grown up on campus of sorts. Some of my favorite memories are some of the games. My oldest applied and my youngest will shortly however, their paths lay elsewhere.

I loved Rutgers despite it being a last minute change and the reasons for
 
RUTGERS95

RUTGERS95

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mdk02 said:
IIRC he has not raised tuition during his tenure as president.
Click to expand...
Mitch is the old 'new' guy, Chaing was there previous 6yrs and recently left for Northwestern. I don't think MD will change anything, especially the approach to STEM. If anything, his appointment will probably mean more state resources to the school for his as he's incredibly well connected
 
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T2Kplus20

T2Kplus20

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May 1, 2007
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Bueller said:
SU prof on reddit is blaming excessive administrative costs similar to what happened at local schools. I recall an article about Stanford having one administrator for every student. I also see people blaming a birth rate decline but I see more to it since Zoomers aren't way off other gens. . SU's student population specifically has increased over a decade and not decreased. Part of that will be increase of 10% online students who pay less per credit and no dorm etc costs. SU also had 18% foreign students in 2020 and that was 5% in 2025.

I think its been destructive to raise tuition/dorm costs to 90k and squeezing Americans out while compensating with students from China with a government that pays tuition (for students who have be interrogated about what they learned.)

Closer to home, NY State has been replacing its native populations (some specifically told they have no place in NY) with an imported sector that doesn't care about 4 year college degrees. My local HS went from 9% Hispanic to 75% over 15 yrs and most of them dont care about college, They are very entrepreneurial and even have their own informal "banking system" for funds.

Then you have the amputation of specific males from college bodies. SUNY (State University of New York) has 214,000 4 year students and they are now 61% female (places like New Paltz are 66%)., SU undergrads are 56% female (RU = 54% according to RU page). US colleges have been stacking the decks financially and ideologically against some of its own people while compensating with foreigner students with funding from from oppositional governments. I don't have a lot of sympathy for most colleges (who also saved money hiring adjuncts often not allowed to use copiers). A lot of the excessive administrators are in place for "therapeutic coddling" and "narrative culturing" (a euphemism)

I don't like ratings because they are slanted. I think there should be rankings for entrepreneurial success and not so much just on jobs/pay. Someone has to create the jobs. Seems like Harvard's dropouts do more than than the Wall St grifters who like to camo-up with prestige degrees ("Flash Boys" author Michael Lewis said Wall St is a place where smart grads go to be stupid) .
Click to expand...
Why would anyone consider an average at best college with a price tag of $90k? In that location, with that weather, etc.
 
T2Kplus20

T2Kplus20

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RUTGERS95 said:
my kids have zero interest in Rutgers, they are 'Rutgers'd out' as they say (football, baseball, basketball and volleyball) as they've grown up on campus of sorts. Some of my favorite memories are some of the games. My oldest applied and my youngest will shortly however, their paths lay elsewhere.

I loved Rutgers despite it being a last minute change and the reasons for
Click to expand...
We stopped off at Busch and College Ave with the little one yesterday. We have a long way to go (starting 9th grade this week) but size is a concern. Not a deal breaker right now, but a hurdle that needs to be cleared.

Regardless, she is currently fixated on architecture and business, so RU is a non-starter if the former doesn't change.
 
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Knight Shift

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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University of Vermont-





"The university’s response is to beef up and improve its athletic facilities, which is all well and good.
But while it is impossible to quantify, it is also impossible to deny that the falling popularity of UVM has at least something to do with Burlington’s sketchy downtown area."
 
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RUTGERS95

RUTGERS95

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Sep 28, 2005
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Knight Shift said:
University of Vermont-





"The university’s response is to beef up and improve its athletic facilities, which is all well and good.
But while it is impossible to quantify, it is also impossible to deny that the falling popularity of UVM has at least something to do with Burlington’s sketchy downtown area."
Click to expand...

overpriced, no longer cool, absolute shyythole downtown now but hey, let's fix hockey

haha
 
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Fat Koko

Fat Koko

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The Syracuse collapse was pointed out months before the WSJ article.

Let's fast forward a decade or two. Syracuse will be begging the state to bail it out to create SUNY Syracuse. At the same time, New York will be struggling to close dozens of unnecessary rural SUNY campuses in remote parts of the state where college-bound students neither are created nor want to move.
 
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Anon1754923206

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Fat Koko said:
The Syracuse collapse was pointed out months before the WSJ article.

Let's fast forward a decade or two. Syracuse will be begging the state to bail it out to create SUNY Syracuse. At the same time, New York will be struggling to close dozens of unnecessary rural SUNY campuses in remote parts of the state where college-bound students neither are created nor want to move.
Click to expand...
SUNYs future is dim
 
bigmatt718

bigmatt718

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Mar 11, 2013
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Temple having problems of their own. I think St. Joe's and La Salle though are the schools in real danger in Philly. Cant fathom paying for a 4th/5th rate Catholic university in 2026.

 
J

JL23

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RUTGERS95 said:
overpriced, no longer cool, absolute shyythole downtown now but hey, let's fix hockey

haha
Click to expand...
This
Always amazed when I go there for work that they just don't clean it up
Tons of potential and water views to die for
Similar to Portland, Maine in a lot of areas
 
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JL23

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Leonard23 said:
🤔
Click to expand...

Isn't Cuse like 80k/year? I know Newhouse is amazing, but absent of Ivy's / Public Ivy's, that's insane
Plus the city has seen better days and winter is beyond depressing there
Throw in subpar bball and bad football and it's easy to see why enrollment is declining
 
bigmatt718

bigmatt718

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Mar 11, 2013
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JL23 said:
Isn't Cuse like 80k/year? I know Newhouse is amazing, but absent of Ivy's / Public Ivy's, that's insane
Plus the city has seen better days and winter is beyond depressing there
Throw in subpar bball and bad football and it's easy to see why enrollment is declining
Click to expand...
And that's Cuse's main problem. They think they are on par with NW and Duke when they are nowhere close to those schools academically. The price tag doesn't justify mediocre academics.
 
e5fdny

e5fdny

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Nov 11, 2002
115,050
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mdk02 said:
Years back Smugglers Notch used to offer dirt cheap season tickets to UVM students. I wonder if that still holds true.
Click to expand...
I have one nephew who went to St. Michael’s and another nephew and niece who go to Vermont now.

I’ll ask. I think they offer that at Stowe too.
 
RUTGERS95

RUTGERS95

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Sep 28, 2005
35,033
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e5fdny said:
I have one nephew who went to St. Michael’s and another nephew and niece who go to Vermont now.

I’ll ask. I think they offer that at Stowe too.
Click to expand...
VT has some great mountains to ski and of course the lake is awesome in the summer. It's really a superb place to love minus the politics
 
A

Anon1754923206

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RUTGERS95 said:
VT has some great mountains to ski and of course the lake is awesome in the summer. It's really a superb place to love minus the politics
Click to expand...
VT my only time there was in high school looking at Lyndon State…dad spun his car off the interstate because there was close to 1 inch of ice on everything. Thankfully, I realize that a college that close to Canada was a big mistake.
 
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Fat Koko

Fat Koko

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Vlife said:
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting.

Rutgers is best positioned of the B1G schools on demographics and by a wide margin versus most of them.

Hopefully, Rutgers administrators don't remain complacent just because they can fill classes with qualified NJ students when peers are forced to make cuts in response to falling tuition revenues from shrinking numbers of students. Rutgers lucked out because New Jersey doesn't have swaths of the state made up of rural areas and small cities being abandoned like most other states have.
 
Last edited:
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Fat Koko

Fat Koko

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bigmatt718 said:
To be fair publics in New England are largely terrible academically outside of UMass and UConn.
Click to expand...
Rutgers beats them all by a lot. This is why I went to Rutgers. Back in the day when in-state was $10k at New Engalnd schools and out-of-state at Rutgers was $13k. Had to convince pops staring down 6 college-bound kids with 24 years of tuition in front of him plus precarious employment at time to pay extra $3k.

Was worth it. Rutgers education is better in so many ways than all six New England public flagships.

Showing up in the rankings too.

1788234085008.png
 
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Fat Koko

Fat Koko

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bigmatt718 said:
Temple having problems of their own. I think St. Joe's and La Salle though are the schools in real danger in Philly. Cant fathom paying for a 4th/5th rate Catholic university in 2026.

Click to expand...

Temple is downsizing its enrollment projections. Common sense after the school's enrollment is down 27% in past eight years. WIll Temple also downsize it administrative spending projections?

I looked at Temple's financial statements and salaries and wages, not including benefits. Salaries and wages are up 25% over the same period. This administrative bloat is at least as big a problem as student enrollment across US higher education, but the bureaucrats hide the bloat part because fixing it would mean eliminating their jobs and the jobs of their colleagues.

Rutgers Camden is pushing its One Tuition Grant that offers Pennsylvania students New Jersey's in-state tuition rate.

Temple and Rutgers Camden recruit from the same area, metro Philly including South Jersey. A Pennsylvania student's family will take notice that Rutgers Camden tuition is ~$7,000 lower than Temple tuition.

Plus, Rutgers Camden recently entered the rankings and has surged past Temple.

1788261499314.png
Temp
 
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Fat Koko

Fat Koko

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On the migration from Northeast high schools to Southeast colleges, here are anecdotes from my family.
  • Brother one - Virginia, worked in Charlottesville for a few years, now lives in Boston with family
  • Sister one - Vanderbilt, worked in New York for a few years, now lives in Boston with family
  • Sister two - Clemson, graduated during 2009 Great Recession, zero employment opportunities in Southeast, got temp job in Boston, now lives in Boston with family
  • Niece graduated from Clemson last year, immediately got job at Wayfair and returned to Boston
  • Other niece went to small liberal arts in Boston, hated it and wanted traditional college experience, transferred to Clemson to be with sister and join sorority, almost certainly returns home after graduation
For the two nieces, this could be a supermarket line or car bumper sticker scenario because they live in fancy town, people there probably don't want their kids to go to UMass even though UMass is a fraction of the price and ranks far higher than Clemson and similar Southeastern schools. Maybe they were rejected from UMass. Brother, who is named after Tom Brady, goes to Michigan State and almost certainly doesn't stay in Michigan.

Point is Rutgers will lose some qualified students to Southeast schools and Rutgers needs to do a better job offering the traditional college experience many kids seek. Still, Rutgers - and UMass - are thriving because the states are overflowing with immigrant families raising bright kids who go to the in state flagships. These families don't care if the football teams suck.
 
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RUTGERS95

RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
35,033
51,394
113
Fat Koko said:
Temple is downsizing its enrollment projections. Common sense after the school's enrollment is down 27% in past eight years. WIll Temple also downsize it administrative spending projections?

I looked at Temple's financial statements and salaries and wages, not including benefits. Salaries and wages are up 25% over the same period. This administrative bloat is at least as big a problem as student enrollment across US higher education, but the bureaucrats hide the bloat part because fixing it would mean eliminating their jobs and the jobs of their colleagues.

Rutgers Camden is pushing its One Tuition Grant that offers Pennsylvania students New Jersey's in-state tuition rate.

Temple and Rutgers Camden recruit from the same area, metro Philly including South Jersey. A Pennsylvania student's family will take notice that Rutgers Camden tuition is ~$7,000 lower than Temple tuition.

Plus, Rutgers Camden recently entered the rankings and has surged past Temple.

View attachment 1415144
Temp
Click to expand...
salaries, wages, bloat are the biggest issues facing colleges today as they've outpaced the realities and dynamics of the university system.
 
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