So Chuck Oliver asks Dave Bartoo about Dan Mullen

Called3rdstrikedawg said:

And go back and watch that TD. It was a workman’s effort to get the first down let alone fight his way into the end zone. It was 4th and the pass was short of the down marker, but Evan’s just shook off the tackler, picked up the first do n and more to make it to the “Land of Milk & Honey”!

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And let’s not forget the 4th down play on the prior set of downs where our receiver had to stop and slide and make a miracle catch on a horribly thrown ball. The replay of that was on just the other day and I cringed watching it.

Every bit of that game pales in comparison to the 3-4 games we had no business losing, though. Should have been a massive breakout year but we refused to finish.

Mullen half assing it > Lebby

Lebby is 1-15 in the SEC in two years. Some of yall don't want to admit it, but Croom was better in his first two years. The Maine loss was horrid, but getting blown out by Toledo may have been worse. Mullen got here in '09 and took a **** show team to 5-7 and should have been 6-6. By year two we were 9-4 and spanking Michigan in a bowl game.

Let's look at Lebby and Croom in the first two years. Spare me the "SEC is better" now,.

Year 1 Lebby (2-10, 0-8 SEC)
56-7 win over Eastern Kentucky
7 straight losses with just one in single digits (but were down 30-3 at one point)
45-20 win over a horrible Massachusetts team
3 blowout losses to ranked SEC teams to end the season

Year 1 Croom (3-8, 2-6 SEC)
28-7 win over Tulane
5 straight losses, mostly blowouts, including losses to Maine and UAB
A win over a ranked Florida team
A blowout win over Kentucky
3 losses to end the season, 2 blowouts but a near win over Arkansas

Despite losses to Maine and UAB, Croom's first season was better than Lebby's first season.



Year 2 Lebby (5-8, 1-7 SEC)
4-0 start with a win over #12 Arizona State
4 straight losses, three of which were competitive and one (Florida) where a dumb coaching decision directly lost the game
A 38-35 win over a horrible Arkansas team
4 straight blowout losses

Year 2 Croom (3-8, 1-7)
Blowout over Murray State
Blowout loss to Auburn
Win over Tulane
7 straight losses with just one in single digits (13-7 to Kentucky)
Blowout win over Ole Miss

Lebby probably wins the second season based on competiveness in the losses, but they had the same SEC record.

Year 3 Croom was 3-9 (1-7). Here comes the tiebreaker season. Lebby has to be 4-5 in the SEC wins to surpass Croom in his first three seasons.

Called3rdstrikedawg said:

Auburn?

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Flarda was 4-8 last season

Howiefeltersnstch said:

Pretty sure Bartoo and his CFBmatrix are widely consulted anytime a coaching search begins. So I would say he is pretty knowledgeable. Or at least has a fairly accurate system of stats to predict and grade with. Plus he agrees with me, so that shows he is no dummy. Dan will never walk thru that door. Stop living in the past.

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Says who? Dave Bartoo?

This is the first time I have every heard Bartoo's name come up outside of the context of Bo Bounds and I consume a healthy diet of college football content.

Bhamdawg1725 said:

CUSA and Big East vs ACC probably had more to do with that. He was a helluva coach. And a poor motorcyclist.

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You left off "and a master cocksman."

I stopped listening to other people's opinions, even when they are so called "experts".

and in this NIL world, there are no long term rebuilds. Coaches must show they have it or they don't when they are given money to build a roster year to year. Lebby hasn't done that.

and also, yes......there will be other coaches who will take an SEC job with a higher salary, even if it is considered a bottom feeder program. We just need to find the right one. If a coach is too scared to take a job because we fired the previous coach, that is a coach we do not want.


I really don't want Dan back. He was a coach who brought in gym rat, over achievers and coached them up, but that isn't the world we live in today. He also chose to leave and take staff with him. Not a Dan fan anymore.

eckie1 said:

And let’s not forget the 4th down play on the prior set of downs where our receiver had to stop and slide and make a miracle catch on a horribly thrown ball. The replay of that was on just the other day and I cringed watching it.

Every bit of that game pales in comparison to the 3-4 games we had no business losing, though. Should have been a massive breakout year but we refused to finish.

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Also one Brennan Thompson TD away from losing ASU. They almost owned the 2nd half.

615dawg said:

Lebby is 1-15 in the SEC in two years. Some of yall don't want to admit it, but Croom was better in his first two years.

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You're wasting time, they are just going to blame Leach, the guy that went 8-4 in his last year and left a ton of returning starters. Rather than a roster riddled by chaos and 3 beatdown seasons that Kang left Croom. But still not as bad they would have us believe at the time.

Bottom line is Croom, Moorhead and Lebby all suck(ed), at least in the way they approached the MSU job, and the timing of their hiring.

Colonel Kang said:

Good lord, we have a $30 mil roster. At what point are we allowed to have expectations?

is there another $30 mil roster in the sport in which the media thinks the program & team are awful?

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Just a reminder that the Seahawks & the Raiders have the same salary cap.

Dan should be rejected forever at State, after taking advantage of us the way he did. He lost three EB's because he checked out early and was shopping for other jobs before and during the EB's.

60sdog said:

Dan should be rejected forever at State, after taking advantage of us the way he did. He lost three EB's because he checked out early and was shopping for other jobs before and during the EB's.

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I actually agree with this. It's time to move on. Mullen did a lot of great things and is one of the best coaches we've ever had, but let me submit some alternate talking points:

- Like you said, he did check out in multiple seasons, but to me, it was mainly a distraction in recrootin. I don't know that it affected ALL egg bowls, really just 2017;
- He left us before what was going to be the culmination of his tenure in Starkville, with that roster we had, and all the returning coaches;
- He never did that one 'thing' that defines a coach, like get us a Heisman, and obviously winning a title of some sort. He failed to sign Cam Newton, and our biggest pinnacle was likely that Gator Bowl win over Michigan.

So what's the result? Well....he's not some statue worthy coach. We don't have that, throughout the history of MSU football. Because our history sucks. And the Mullen Era was just one of the few positive parts of that, similar to the Kang Era. It is what it is.

Reject may be a little strong. Sure, reach out to him if we have a coaching vacancy, and he reaches out to us, but Mullen is no more of an MSU guy than Kang Jackie or anybody else. Kang is obviously an aTm homer now, and who knows who Mullen truly roots for, probably Penn State.

So 17 these guys, I say.

OG Goat Holder said:

You're wasting time, they are just going to blame Leach, the guy that went 8-4 in his last year and left a ton of returning starters. Rather than a roster riddled by chaos and 3 beatdown seasons that Kang left Croom. But still not as bad they would have us believe at the time.

Bottom line is Croom, Moorhead and Lebby all suck(ed), at least in the way they approached the MSU job, and the timing of their hiring.

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Moorhead is really frustrating because we had really good teams with him that underperformed.

Lebby was just not ready for an SEC head coaching job. Its not a place for on the job training. I'm with DawgatAuburn on this - the moment we drop below .500, you get rid of him.

615dawg said:

Moorhead is really frustrating because we had really good teams with him that underperformed.

Lebby was just not ready for an SEC head coaching job. Its not a place for on the job training. I'm with DawgatAuburn on this - the moment we drop below .500, you get rid of him.

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I don't think you can fire him until after the Vandy game at the earliest. 5-7 with an Egg Bowl win will be enough to keep his job. And the 3 games before the Egg Bowl are all very winnable.

Anon1684630174 said:

Everyone bitches about Lebby and yeah, he has had some 17 ups but good luck talking anyone that would be considered at least average into taking the job if we fired him at this point. When he was hired, from the way things were looking, we were having a hell of a time getting anyone to listen. I can’t imagine it would be much easier at this time.

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You need to take this stuff back to jean's page where it's an accepted narrative. Over here in the real world, the stakes are too high to continue to accept mediocrity because "we couldn't get anyone better." That's a loser's mentality. Don't be a loser.

HumpDawgy said:

that isn't the world we live in today.

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This is the biggest question about Dan that exists today. Can he recruit in this environment? It's not easy, and we all know he isn't a fan of recruiting, schmoozing mamas (or preachers), telling people what they want to hear, paying hyped up players, or dealing with players with egos.

Unfortunately, all of the above seems to be in the job description of an SEC head coach today. I just don't see him being up for all that. Imagine our best receiver coming up to the coach and saying if he doesn't get a raise, he's going in the portal.

Kiffin: "Naw dawg, we'll get you taken care of. Don't leave - here, come get a picture with this wad of cash next to my BMW and post it on your insta"

Mullen: "Get the 17 out"

Darryl Steight said:

This is the biggest question about Dan that exists today. Can he recruit in this environment? It's not easy, and we all know he isn't a fan of recruiting, schmoozing mamas (or preachers), telling people what they want to hear, paying hyped up players, or dealing with players with egos.

Unfortunately, all of the above seems to be in the job description of an SEC head coach today. I just don't see him being up for all that. Imagine our best receiver coming up to the coach and saying if he doesn't get a raise, he's going in the portal.

Kiffin: "Naw dawg, we'll get you taken care of. Don't leave - here, come get a picture with this wad of cash next to my BMW and post it on your insta"

Mullen: "Get the 17 out"

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He'd be fine. And he'd be perfect for us. He'd pay the stars to stick around, and he'd say the hell with the rest and find some developmental guys and pay them to stick around, like he did last time.

But he still ain't coming, unless we're like his only option and last chance.

patdog said:

The second time around is very rarely as good as the first.

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See Polk 2 - Electric Boogaloo for typical results of a re-tread.

Darryl Steight said:

This is the biggest question about Dan that exists today. Can he recruit in this environment? It's not easy, and we all know he isn't a fan of recruiting, schmoozing mamas (or preachers), telling people what they want to hear, paying hyped up players, or dealing with players with egos.

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Exactly. Dan doesn't just need to win over players and mamas with his wonderful personality, but he also needs to schmooze the cigar boys for more NIL money.

HumpDawgy said:

Exactly. Dan doesn't just need to win over players and mamas with his wonderful personality, but he also needs to schmooze the cigar boys for more NIL money.

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I've been at one of those meetings, and he is truly a shittty schmoozer. He hates it.

HumpDawgy said:

Exactly. Dan doesn't just need to win over players and mamas with his wonderful personality, but he also needs to schmooze the cigar boys for more NIL money.

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Apparently we have people donating to Heavy Lebby. I think they'd give money to Danny Boy. All they'd need to see is those wins starting.

But the problem is, in true toxic Miss Stake style, the second he had a down year, we'd start calling to fire him and thinking we know better.

Our fanbase does not have the maturity to handle this situation. Mullen knows this 'element' all too well.

Dan thought he would be all lined up for the Penn State job in 2014, but he choked throughout the 2013 season, got lucky throwing an injured Dak into the Egg Bowl fray, and won big against an overrated Rice team in a meaningless bowl.

James Franklin, on the other hand, was a world beater that same season at Vanderbilt and ended up in Happy Valley. The PedoProtectingPaternos would have been better off taking Dan.

But he gave them no reason to.

Loser!

Darryl Steight said:

I've been at one of those meetings, and he is truly a shittty schmoozer. He hates it.

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Yes. Been there too. He is much more comfortable standing over to the side, studying/judging people. That's his schtick.

Called3rdstrikedawg said:

And if he thinks Mullen can be satisfied at UNLV. Bartoo says look for Mullen to be a top 3 candidate next year at North Carolina. And he thinks that is where Mullen will end up. So Chucky asks him about Mullen returning to State if something happens with Lebby. Bartoo said no way Dan should walk back through that door. He said Dan is the best coach ever at State and he doesn’t need to ruin that legacy. Chuck pressed him and Bartoo said Dan should not go back to State in the shape State is in for any amount offered! And he indicated that even though Lebby is considered on the hot seat, he should not be. He said State needs continuity and the time to do a complete rebuild.

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A loss in Minneapolis will have these "keep Lebby-ites" shutting up

Dan will have multiple options by the end of this season.

Howiefeltersnstch said:

Pretty sure Bartoo and his CFBmatrix are widely consulted anytime a coaching search begins. So I would say he is pretty knowledgeable. Or at least has a fairly accurate system of stats to predict and grade with. Plus he agrees with me, so that shows he is no dummy. Dan will never walk thru that door. Stop living in the past.

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Yes, it sure is widely consulted anytime any coaching search begins. The source, Dave Bartoo.

Im the best plumber that ever lived. Source, me.