OT: Thoughts on the growing prevalence of Flock surveillance cameras

DJ Spanky said:

And how do you guarantee it gets deleted? Who oversees that? What happens when the government steps in for whatever reason and says: "We need to hold onto it a little longer"? There are so many, many ways to abuse this - how do you stop it? How do you guarantee it never happens? What about when the government sets up an institution like the Disinformation Governance Board to monitor people? I could go on and on, but you get the point.

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agree, need safeguards but for now, many munis have a 30 day window which is egregious

Let's not forget, the data isn't even housed in the US!!!!!

Rutgers Chris said:

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That’s some bullshite right there.

DJ Spanky said:

And how do you guarantee it gets deleted? Who oversees that? What happens when the government steps in for whatever reason and says: "We need to hold onto it a little longer"? There are so many, many ways to abuse this - how do you stop it? How do you guarantee it never happens? What about when the government sets up an institution like the Disinformation Governance Board to monitor people? I could go on and on, but you get the point.

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This reminds me of the actress playing Will Smith’s wife in “Enemy of the State” asking ”… and who is going to check the checkers?”

MS playing games with one drive and surreptitiously slipping scanning on to phone. One drive data on MS servers can be harvested for AI, reported etc. This is all related to Flock, doorbell cams, phones etc. Pretty soon your taxes will be done by gov because their files on you will be better than yours

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LETSGORU91 said:

"So sayeth the sheppard! So sayeth the flock!" Anyone?

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I am a little disappointed nobody got this reference. Is was from a movie...last call.

Just like any other technology, it can be useful but it depends on the people controlling it. Are they ethical, do they act with integrity, behave morally, are responsible, etc. The problem with this, you can have a police force of 100, and only 1 misusing the technology can cause issues. Also, who are the politicians in control of the cops. Many times they don't act ethically and will force a cop to do something in return for a promotion or something else.

Rutgers Chris said:

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So anyone who travels to Michigan and back to Wisconsin can be searched with cause?

I'm assuming they had more?

LETSGORU91 said:

I am a little disappointed nobody got this reference. Is was from a movie...last call.

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I know it........but can't quite remember. Give me a bit.

DJ Spanky said:

Are we getting closer to George Orwell's 1984?

Map shows Flock camera locations in every state amid growing backlash

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Little crazy, but since we are all being track via our phones, I guess this is mostly meh. Perhaps?

We crossed the rubicon a long time ago.

Rutgers Chris said:

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can't imagine that will stand

Some talk about it, some be about it

Well an interesting side note . How about the cars that have coverings over the License plates to obscure the plate? They are toll scoffs. The PANYNJ has gone after these folks at the GWB and MTA at various other NY Bridges and Tunnels.

I'm curious why NJ State PD and local PD are letting this go. Should be easy pickings for fines and catching people not paying tolls etc.

"Paranoia strikes deep.
Into your life it can seep.
It starts when you're always afraid.
Step out of line, the man comes, and takes you away!"

Since I'm not a scumbag criminal I don't give a ****

Though most criminals walk anyway

Buy a gun, shoot them yourself works better

Rutgers booster runs a company that does what Flock does.

“Automated license plate recognition is an increasingly powerful tool for law enforcement,” said Greg Brown, chairman and CEO of Motorola Solutions, in the statement. “With this acquisition, VaaS will expand our command center software portfolio with the largest shareable database of vehicle location information that can help shorten response times and improve the speed and accuracy of investigations.” Link

Flock camera hysteria is hitting the level online that makes you wonder if it’s a foreign disinformation campaign similar to data centers and 5g

Rutgers Chris said:

Flock camera hysteria is hitting the level online that makes you wonder if it’s a foreign disinformation campaign similar to data centers and 5g

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Foreign governments are smiling at the proliferation of Flock cameras. Enables them to know the movements of whoever they wish to watch in the US. Hack 'em and track 'em.

The Flock backlash could be a Flock competitor aiming to gain market share from Flock, or drive down its value before acquiring it.

Mass surveillance = double edged sword.

fg7321 said:

Well an interesting side note . How about the cars that have coverings over the License plates to obscure the plate? They are toll scoffs. The PANYNJ has gone after these folks at the GWB and MTA at various other NY Bridges and Tunnels.

I'm curious why NJ State PD and local PD are letting this go. Should be easy pickings for fines and catching people not paying tolls etc.

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Flock also records bumper stickers, scratches, dents, body type etc. They see cars as possessing their own "fingerprints" that are more than just plates.

"State officials have used Flock Safety’s technology, cameras commonly known as automatic license plate readers, to build a network of vigilant eyes across North Carolina. But the high-tech surveillance system captures more than just vehicle plates. The Atlanta-based company’s cameras record data including a car’s make, decals and body type, according to a 2024 product presentation prepared for the N.C. State Bureau of Investigation’s license plate reader pilot program, obtained by The News & Observer.

Officers can also tap into data showing a car’s decals, bumper stickers, back and top racks — along with temporary and unique state tags. Flock calls it a “Vehicle Fingerprint” and it’s touted as a way for law enforcement officials to get more information “even when you don’t have full plate information,” the company’s presentation shows."

‘No plate? No problem’: High-tech cameras capture more than license plates​

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article315990932.html#storylink=cpy

​

Fat Koko said:

Foreign governments are smiling at the proliferation of Flock cameras. Enables them to know the movements of whoever they wish to watch in the US. Hack 'em and track 'em.

The Flock backlash could be a Flock competitor aiming to gain market share from Flock, or drive down its value before acquiring it.

Mass surveillance = double edged sword.

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US "big tech" bros helped China build its surveillance and censorship system. They salivated to do it in US after they lost their "public information management" system at Twitter, Stanford, Facebook, MIT. That's why they are in such a rush and got out over their skis.

Don't look just at Flock - the low voltage Bluetooth surveillance web is everywhere including kitchens appliances, TVs, neighbors cars etc. People can be located/monitored down to the foot. MS/Google web browsers have new IDs that are trackable and cant be evaded as in past

ACLU is strong against Flock and published about Flock lying about recording vehicle heat

The ACLU documents how an automatic license plate reader company has lied about its operations, signaling a need for reputable governments to avoid working with Flock Safety.


"During a city council meeting in a suburb of Wisconsin in April, the city of Oshkosh considered whether it should approve a contract to use automatic license plate readers (ALPR) from Flock Safety, a prominent company that provides ALPRs to law enforcement agencies across the country. During the meeting, one city council member asked Flock if the company’s ALPR system created heat maps that could reveal where a particular vehicle had driven over a period of time. Flock’s chief information security officer, who was in attendance, told the council that Flock’s system did not “create a pattern or heat map of an individual’s movement” through the tracking of their vehicles. At the end of that meeting, the Oshkosh City Council approved a contract with Flock. The very next morning, the city learned that Flock had lied.

Later that day, the city council reconvened to discuss what it had learned. Confronting Flock, Oshkosh Deputy Mayor Joe Stephenson said “I don't know how this body can govern if someone tells untruths, mistruths, exaggerated truths. I don't know how I can make a decision or discern what's right or what's wrong, or even the capabilities of this system if you lie to me.” “Shame on them,” Oshkosh Mayor Matt Mugerauer added. “All I'm saying is if you give bad information, then I just don't want to work with you.”

I bet that everyone who is concerned about flock cameras, all have smart phones in their pockets, which can track everywhere you go & everything you say.

tru2ru1 said:

I bet that everyone who is concerned about flock cameras, all have smart phones in their pockets, which can track everywhere you go & everything you say.

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I see, so all those models, and data centers, and data harvestings, and trillions being invested is just to replicate phone data? God help us.

DJ Spanky said:

Flock wanted 350,000 Uber and Lyft dashcams to spy for it. Nobody behind the wheel would have known.

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Walmart found collecting voice prints for AI - including "emotional' traits. Walmart also does facial scans surreptitiously.

• Walmart allegedly builds permanent voiceprints from customer service calls without proper BIPA consent.
• Walmart’s AI system reportedly tracks caller emotions by analyzing vocal pitch, tone, and cadence.
• Illinois’ 2024 BIPA amendment caps damages per claimant, reducing Walmart’s potential financial exposure.
  

Walmart Accused of Secretly Building Voiceprints From Customer Service Calls​

Illinois plaintiffs say Walmart’s AI phone system extracted voiceprints from millions of customer service calls without valid BIPA consent

Walmart Accused of Secretly Building Voiceprints From Customer Service Calls

Walmart faces a class action alleging its AI phone system secretly built customer voiceprints without the consent Illinois biometric privacy law requires.

www.gadgetreview.com

I get all of the concerns. Believe me I do. But as someone who consumes as many True Crime type shows as I can( See No Evil, Text Me When You Get Home, Your Worst Nightmare etc) I also think of how many lives could have been saved. Now if they could only do something about protective orders and non-stalking laws being more strictly enforced.

You can always wrap your car like an alternative Mountain Dew can:

Seems like flock is making some changes

AI Overview




Flock Safety announced mandatory privacy guardrails and system restrictions for its automated license plate reader network. These updates—rolling out following reports of law enforcement data misuse—reduce default data retention to seven days, require case codes for searches, and introduce automatic lockouts for abnormal search behavior. [1, 2, 3]

New Data and Search Restrictions

• • Shorter Data Storage: Cut the recommended default data retention period from 30 days down to 7 days. [1, 2]
  • Mandatory Case Codes: Require police officers to input a valid case ID number before running a search in the system. [1, 2]
  • Abnormal Activity Lockouts: Proactively and automatically suspend or lock out user accounts flagged for unusual or suspicious search patterns pending a review. [1, 2]
  • Offense and Agency Filtering: Allow local communities and police departments to restrict which outside or federal agencies can access their data, enabling blocks on searches related to specific issues like immigration enforcement. [1, 2]
  • Audit Assistance: Make automated tracking tools mandatory for law enforcement agencies to flag and review questionable queries. [1, 2]

So here's an interesting question. Anyone who has driven on NJ roads like the Tpke Pkywy rt 80 & 78 have experienced being almost run off the road by cars racing cutting people off tailgating speeding etc. These a holes caiuse accidents and potentially kill innocent unsuspecting drivers.

In NJ Speed and red cameras are illegal. Why cant the state police put up drones to track these offenders and then have an officer down the road issue the fine. Seems like a good use of tech and much lower cost that a helicopter or plane to do aviation enforcement. Solves the issue of an actual officer giving the ticket.

DJ Spanky said:

Massachusetts cop charged with stalking ex using Flock cameras

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And that's the dilemma. There is a 2 year old who is with her parents today because of those cameras. But the system can also be abused.

Sedona is a very small city




The Dallas Police Department conducted the most searches of CCSO’s network with 313,404, ahead of the California Highway Patrol’s 299,216. The Texas Department of Public Safety was third at 75,432, followed by the Houston Police Department with 72,184.

Flock also makes cameras to track pedestrians, cyclists and so on. Called "Condor" they use full tilt/pan/25x zoom/night vision. China has same type of camera and that's the model. None of this "safety" stuff (they let shoplifters raid stores and girls' get murdered on public transportation by guys with dozens of arrests). In China they track Uyghurs by facial features. Huawei and others have been criticized for ethnic detection algorithms. People are even ranked by attractiveness. Switching to use of backdoor can get police to your house

The real surveillance target is a multifaceted web much bigger than just plated readers: Those AI centers aren't for book reports and recipes. Its AI that makes mass surveillance possible since not enough people, could be hired to watch input.

IJOP = Integrated Joint Operations Platform

"The IJOP app demonstrates that Chinese authorities consider certain peaceful religious activities as suspicious, such as donating to mosques or preaching the Quran without authorization. But most of the other behavior the app considers problematic are ethnic-and religion-neutral. Our findings suggest the IJOP system surveils and collects data on everyone in Xinjiang. The system is tracking the movement of people by monitoring the “trajectory” and location data of their phones, ID cards, and vehicles; it is also monitoring the use of electricity and gas stations of everybody in the region. This is consistent with Xinjiang local government statements that emphasize officials must collect data for the IJOP system in a “comprehensive manner” from “everyone in every household.”

When the IJOP system detects irregularities or deviations from what it considers normal, such as when people are using a phone that is not registered to them, when they use more electricity than “normal,” or when they leave the area in which they are registered to live without police permission, the system flags these “micro-clues” to the authorities as suspicious and prompts an investigation.

Another key element of IJOP system is the monitoring of personal relationships. Authorities seem to consider some of these relationships inherently suspicious. For example, the IJOP app instructs officers to investigate people who are related to people who have obtained a new phone number or who have foreign links."

https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/05/...ion/reverse-engineering-xinjiang-police-mass# vision.

"Vehicle surveillance giant Flock Safety has told the public for years that its technology “cannot recognize, identify, or track individuals.” It has now built a system that does both, an artificial intelligence tool for police that can identify drivers and track vehicles by their patterns of movement alone, WIRED has learned.

When they start attaching use of this to social compliance and a social score…then we are truly effed…but hey the govt has your best interest at heart!