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Corby2

Heisman
Jul 14, 2025
4,667
10,172
113
mvattivo said:
Listen, I don't want to get into an argument, but, what can't he be waiting to call it in that situation? Knowing the way replay works, I think you should be taught to be patient in that situation. Now, if it's a clear double leg takedown with zero question, you blow the whistle. This situation was obviously close enough that too officials chose to overturn it. I maintain that I would like to see the mat ref show patience in that situation. I'm not blaming him, I just believe it is something that can be used as a situation to learn from.
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When the hip hits on a nearside cradle it's 3 immediately. McCormick talked about the hip hitting at the convention. Just because the review got it wrong I don't want refs holding calls. Refs waiting to call takedowns was one of the big complaints last year I definitely don't want them waiting longer
 
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DWilly

Redshirt
Apr 13, 2020
1
9
3
Corby2 said:
When the hip hits on a nearside cradle it's 3 immediately. McCormick talked about the hip hitting at the convention. Just because the review got it wrong I don't want refs holding calls. Refs waiting to call takedowns was one of the big complaints last year I definitely don't want them waiting longer
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Call the takedown in real time, but why can't the ref wait for the sequence to play out before stopping action?
 
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mvattivo

mvattivo

All-Conference
Jun 23, 2005
463
2,295
93
DWilly said:
Call the takedown in real time, but why can't the ref wait for the sequence to play out before stopping action?
Click to expand...

Exactly...........that situation was at least questionable enough that two guys over-turned the call. Like you said, award the TD, but, knowing the situation and that it is sudden victory, allow the sequence to finish out. Again, this is a much different situation than a guy getting a clear to everyone takedown.
 
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V

vhsalum

All-Conference
Nov 14, 2002
1,689
4,046
113
mvattivo said:
Listen, I don't want to get into an argument, but, what can't he be waiting to call it in that situation? Knowing the way replay works, I think you should be taught to be patient in that situation. Now, if it's a clear double leg takedown with zero question, you blow the whistle. This situation was obviously close enough that too officials chose to overturn it. I maintain that I would like to see the mat ref show patience in that situation. I'm not blaming him, I just believe it is something that can be used as a situation to learn from.
Click to expand...

Wrestleknownothing said:
There is a corollary in soccer. Assistant ref's used to call offside immediately if they thought it was the case. But once soccer added video reviews they were trained to hold the flag until the sequence of play was done (a goal was scored or posession changed). This way they could disallow the goals that were truly offside upon review, but let the goals stand when the assistant ref was in error. It can be hard to train a ref to let the whole sequence play out when they previously have been trained to call things quickly, but it can be done.

That said the ref now has to decide when to call something quickly and when to wait while withstanding the crowd and coaches going crazy in their ear. Human nature is to respond quickly to that kind of pressure.
Click to expand...

OOOOOORRRR... and hear me out here boys. Eliminate reaction time? This is getting ridiculous.

Corby2 said:
When the hip hits on a nearside cradle it's 3 immediately. McCormick talked about the hip hitting at the convention. Just because the review got it wrong I don't want refs holding calls. Refs waiting to call takedowns was one of the big complaints last year I definitely don't want them waiting longer
Click to expand...
But that's not in the rulebook. Every takedown has "reaction time." So here we are again where the out-loud interpretation of a rule, becomes the rule. And people complain about FS rules. So now, even though it's not in the rule book, the head official of officials is saying that a nearside cradle with the hip hitting is an immediate takedown???? JFC
 
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Wrestleknownothing

All-American
Oct 30, 2021
2,211
5,901
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vhsalum said:
OOOOOORRRR... and hear me out here boys. Eliminate reaction time? This is getting ridiculous.


But that's not in the rulebook. Every takedown has "reaction time." So here we are again where the out-loud interpretation of a rule, becomes the rule. And people complain about FS rules. So now, even though it's not in the rule book, the head official of officials is saying that a nearside cradle with the hip hitting is an immediate takedown???? JFC
Click to expand...
Compromise Shrug GIF
 
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Corby2

Heisman
Jul 14, 2025
4,667
10,172
113
vhsalum said:
OOOOOORRRR... and hear me out here boys. Eliminate reaction time? This is getting ridiculous.


But that's not in the rulebook. Every takedown has "reaction time." So here we are again where the out-loud interpretation of a rule, becomes the rule. And people complain about FS rules. So now, even though it's not in the rule book, the head official of officials is saying that a nearside cradle with the hip hitting is an immediate takedown???? JFC
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Because in that situation it's a takedown and has been forever . Jr high and HS as well it's called that way. Been that way as long as I can remember. Are you telling me that it's not called that way all over the country?
 
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vhsalum

All-Conference
Nov 14, 2002
1,689
4,046
113
Corby2 said:
Because in that situation it's a takedown and has been forever . Jr high and HS as well it's called that way. Been that way as long as I can remember. Are you telling me that it's not called that way all over the country?
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My point is that there is reaction time. And I definitely think Robideau had "it" - this nebulous, undefined rule that exists.

And that's my chagrin - now there are points where there is no reaction time? Remember the rear standing instantaneous TD? Absolutely ridiculous in conjunction with the actual rules.
 
C

Corby2

Heisman
Jul 14, 2025
4,667
10,172
113
vhsalum said:
My point is that there is reaction time. And I definitely think Robideau had "it" - this nebulous, undefined rule that exists.

And that's my chagrin - now there are points where there is no reaction time? Remember the rear standing instantaneous TD? Absolutely ridiculous in conjunction with the actual rules.
Click to expand...
No reaction time is needed when the hip hits on a nearside cradle. That's what I have been told.
Next year it sounds like headgear will go away and a step out will probably happen
 
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dicemen99

dicemen99

All-American
Nov 15, 2005
3,541
5,127
113
vhsalum said:
My point is that there is reaction time. And I definitely think Robideau had "it" - this nebulous, undefined rule that exists.

And that's my chagrin - now there are points where there is no reaction time? Remember the rear standing instantaneous TD? Absolutely ridiculous in conjunction with the actual rules.
Click to expand...
Corby is correct. Reaction time applies to many situations, but hitting the hip in a cradle is a scenario outlined in the case book before and reaction time does not apply. Many fans call for a TD when a cradle is locked, but it is not necessarily a TD even when it looks like control. Hitting a hip triggers the TD call - I believe there are other criteria as well that may trigger this, but not sure. But being broken down to your hip is definitely one of them.

Maybe Tom can weigh in on this.
 
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TwoJoints

TwoJoints

Senior
Feb 2, 2025
183
626
93
Wrestleknownothing said:
There is a corollary in soccer. Assistant ref's used to call offside immediately if they thought it was the case. But once soccer added video reviews they were trained to hold the flag until the sequence of play was done (a goal was scored or posession changed). This way they could disallow the goals that were truly offside upon review, but let the goals stand when the assistant ref was in error. It can be hard to train a ref to let the whole sequence play out when they previously have been trained to call things quickly, but it can be done.

That said the ref now has to decide when to call something quickly and when to wait while withstanding the crowd and coaches going crazy in their ear. Human nature is to respond quickly to that kind of pressure.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I’m wrong (and I very well may be here) in a dual meet setting, if a wrestler in sudden victory got a TD while at the same time locking up a cradle, putting himself into a position to immediately go for a fall, would the action be stopped on the TD, or would the action proceed in its natural progression toward the potential fall?
 
BeerLion

BeerLion

Senior
Oct 12, 2021
348
751
93
TwoJoints said:
Correct me if I’m wrong (and I very well may be here) in a dual meet setting, if a wrestler in sudden victory got a TD while at the same time locking up a cradle, putting himself into a position to immediately go for a fall, would the action be stopped on the TD, or would the action proceed in its natural progression toward the potential fall?
Click to expand...
In SV if you take someone down to their back, the match will continue until the pin occurs or the possibility of a pin has passed. That would be in any setting because of the opportunity of team bonus points.
 
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C

Corby2

Heisman
Jul 14, 2025
4,667
10,172
113
TwoJoints said:
Correct me if I’m wrong (and I very well may be here) in a dual meet setting, if a wrestler in sudden victory got a TD while at the same time locking up a cradle, putting himself into a position to immediately go for a fall, would the action be stopped on the TD, or would the action proceed in its natural progression toward the potential fall?
Click to expand...
The takedown has to be in nearfall criteria for the ref to let it continue. They can't let a nearside when you put the guy on his hip continue.
 
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BigFella235

BigFella235

Senior
Aug 13, 2021
226
711
93
Corby2 said:
The takedown has to be in nearfall criteria for the ref to let it continue. They can't let a nearside when you put the guy on his hip continue.
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That’s an important aspect that I saw a lot of coaches, wrestlers and parents get riled up about last year. It applies in a tech fall situation as well. If you take your opponent directly to their back from neutral, bottom, or top in SV or when you’re about to record a TF, you can still potentially be awarded the fall. But only if they stay in nearfall criteria. The second they come out of the nearfall criteria the match is over.
 
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C

Corby2

Heisman
Jul 14, 2025
4,667
10,172
113
BigFella235 said:
That’s an important aspect that I saw a lot of coaches, wrestlers and parents get riled up about last year. It applies in a tech fall situation as well. If you take your opponent directly to their back from neutral, bottom, or top in SV or when you’re about to record a TF, you can still potentially be awarded the fall. But only if they stay in nearfall criteria. The second they come out of the nearfall criteria the match is over.
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I definitely saw a few refs mess that up last year in duals and forget the guy could've gotten the pin. They usually realize it immediately after and look at the coach like sorry I messed up
 
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Psalm 1 guy

Psalm 1 guy

All-American
Nov 3, 2019
1,346
5,251
113
Tom McAndrew said:
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He is only 22 and has accomplished so much in his life. We Penn State fans, in particular, are blessed to have watched his college career. And if he wants it, hopefully we get to see him again this season. I'm also very excited to watch his freestyle career progress. His style lends itself very well to freestyle with his brutal hand fighting and snap downs.
 
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C

Corby2

Heisman
Jul 14, 2025
4,667
10,172
113
Psalm 1 guy said:
He is only 22 and has accomplished so much in his life. We Penn State fans, in particular, are blessed to have watched his college career. And if he wants it, hopefully we get to see him again this season. I'm also very excited to watch his freestyle career progress. His style lends itself very well to freestyle with his brutal hand fighting and snap downs.
Click to expand...
He's coming back unless the courts change something in the next few weeks
 
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Tom McAndrew

Tom McAndrew

BWI Staff
Staff member
Oct 27, 2021
83,560
68,070
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Today's edition of FloWrestling Radio Live:



(0:00) fun and easy banter
(1:15) Why USA is #1 in Kozak's new World Championship rankings
(10:55) news from the weekend - decommitments, new RAF matches, and CP's ESPN 2 debut
(16:45) our dark horse NCAA champion predictions
(58:40) questions from friends
 
A

amattaro

All-Conference
Sep 12, 2017
380
2,042
93
Camp is awesome. Ziola is a big boy. If Ross fills out, good grief. The Nebraska crew rocks. My son told the Okie St crew about seeing Dee Lockett puke 30 minutes before the Nebraska match. They loved it. Coach Casey, Levi, Marcus, and Dake here for our guys. Levi worked with a Georgian (their national team is here), Marcus with Van Dee, Dake with Mike Mach. Nothing live. Maybe 75%. Saw Dake hit a sweet little duck and to a bear hug and a gentle Dake bomb on Mach. Poetry in motion.
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