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OT - Flock Cameras

greenbean.sixpack

greenbean.sixpack

All-American
Oct 6, 2012
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What does the pack think about Flock Cameras? There have been several treads on local FB groups about them and I am surprised when so many people are for them. The argument is often that our phones are already tracking us. My counter argument is that we "opt in" to our phones, we had no such choice with Flock. Some states have banned or limited the use of this technology, I think we should do the same. Pearl uses license plate readers to send tickets to those without car insurance, (from what I understand there is a decent error rate), but MS banned red light cameras several years ago.
 
horshack.sixpack

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
11,726
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greenbean.sixpack said:
What does the pack think about Flock Cameras? There have been several treads on local FB groups about them and I am surprised when so many people are for them. The argument is often that our phones are already tracking us. My counter argument is that we "opt in" to our phones, we had no such choice with Flock. Some states have banned or limited the use of this technology, I think we should do the same. Pearl uses license plate readers to send tickets to those without car insurance, (from what I understand there is a decent error rate), but MS banned red light cameras several years ago.
Click to expand...
This guy is worth following if you are a computer guy. I found his take on flock to be well reasoned.



It has tons of value when used correctly and downside if not. Back to my chainsaw analogy. Trees - good. People - bad.
 
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BulldogBlitz

BulldogBlitz

Heisman
Dec 11, 2008
17,455
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Are you saying "opt in" with the phone because its either have a phone or not? Your phone definitely tracks you and listens whether you agree or not to allow it.

Every app seems to want access to pics, voice, location, etc.

In this area, its hilarious to read all the fb posts because they dont want anyone "tracking" them with a camera. So they are listing them all in case someone wants to accidentally swerve.
 
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Dawgbite

Dawgbite

Heisman
Nov 1, 2011
9,503
10,515
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That’s a new on on me. We’d never have a fictional crime drama or a true crime show if they ban those things. What would we watch on tv. There will be consequences and ramifications!
 
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MStateU

MStateU

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Nov 15, 2009
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Shmuley

Shmuley

Heisman
Mar 6, 2008
24,113
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greenbean.sixpack said:
What does the pack think about Flock Cameras? There have been several treads on local FB groups about them and I am surprised when so many people are for them. The argument is often that our phones are already tracking us. My counter argument is that we "opt in" to our phones, we had no such choice with Flock. Some states have banned or limited the use of this technology, I think we should do the same. Pearl uses license plate readers to send tickets to those without car insurance, (from what I understand there is a decent error rate), but MS banned red light cameras several years ago.
Click to expand...
The Pearl distinction is that the tag readers are not for “moving violations” (speeding, running a red light, etc.) but for non-moving violations (expired tag, no insurance, etc) so this is why the Pearl tag readers are not in violation of the state statute banning traffic cameras. So far, the argument has worked. The state legislature can address the Pearl situation if it chooses to do so, but I don’t know many voters who think it’s okay for people to operate a vehicle without the mandated liability insurance coverage. So, politically, there is not a lot of incentive for the legislature to try and block what Pearl is doing.
 
M

MSUDOG24

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horshack.sixpack said:
This guy is worth following if you are a computer guy. I found his take on flock to be well reasoned.



It has tons of value when used correctly and downside if not. Back to my chainsaw analogy. Trees - good. People - bad.
Click to expand...

Interesting watch and answers my first question, what the heck is a Flock camera. That guys pretty good and had to chuckle at "a conference room full of people arguing over who owns the conduit". I'm also now firm in my opinion .... it depends. 🤷‍♂️ What was the chainsaw analogy?
 
grinningmule

grinningmule

Heisman
Jul 15, 2021
4,776
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They are great for tracking criminals but the human element always finds a way to corrupt it:
Documented Stalking Incidents
    • Florida Deputy Case: A Monroe County sheriff's deputy allegedly used a surveillance hotlist tied to automated cameras to track down and pull over a woman he met while providing security on a TV set. [1, 2]
    • Costa Mesa Officer: A Costa Mesa, California police officer used the department's Flock network and law enforcement databases to track his mistress and other romantic interests, ultimately pleading guilty to criminal charges. [1, 2]
    • Milwaukee Officers: A former Milwaukee police officer resigned and faced charges after searching his ex-girlfriend's license plate nearly 180 times via the department's Flock system. A second Milwaukee detective was later charged for similar personal tracking. [1, 2, 3, 4]
 
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Howiefeltersnstch

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Dec 28, 2019
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No different than FISA. Its a great tool to prevent terrorists from other countries. But it can be used for evil, such as monitoring senators text messages and phone records from the opposing party. Or spying on a duly elected president in an attempt to topple his government. With great power comes great responsibility. But everybody is a corrupt pos these days so 🤷
 
W

WrapItDog

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Aug 23, 2012
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Flock Safety cameras generate billions of license plate scans monthly, leading to massive absolute error counts despite high percentage accuracy claims. The company states its system is 99% accurate (or 93% in some independent reports) while scanning approximately 20 billion vehicles per month.

  • 99% Accuracy Claim: Flock claims 99% accuracy, which still results in approximately 200 million misreads per month.
  • 93% Accuracy Data: Independent analysis and some reports cite a 93% accuracy rate, implying over 1.4 billion inaccurate readings per month.
  • Error Sources: Mistakes stem from machine misreads (e.g., confusing '0' and 'O', dirt, or partial plate entries) and human errors (e.g., officers entering incomplete data into the NCIC database).
  • Consequences: These errors have led to innocent drivers being detained at gunpoint, swarmed by police, or wrongfully arrested, with incidents occurring across multiple states including Minnesota, Nebraska, and Tennessee.
  • Systemic Issue: The architecture often fails to distinguish between full matches and partial substring matches, amplifying small data entry errors into nationwide surveillance alerts.
 
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horshack.sixpack

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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MSUDOG24 said:
Interesting watch and answers my first question, what the heck is a Flock camera. That guys pretty good and had to chuckle at "a conference room full of people arguing over who owns the conduit". I'm also now firm in my opinion .... it depends. 🤷‍♂️ What was the chainsaw analogy?
Click to expand...
Good if you are cutting wood bad if you are cutting people. All about who is using it and how.
 
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horshack.sixpack

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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WrapItDog said:
Flock Safety cameras generate billions of license plate scans monthly, leading to massive absolute error counts despite high percentage accuracy claims. The company states its system is 99% accurate (or 93% in some independent reports) while scanning approximately 20 billion vehicles per month.

  • 99% Accuracy Claim: Flock claims 99% accuracy, which still results in approximately 200 million misreads per month.
  • 93% Accuracy Data: Independent analysis and some reports cite a 93% accuracy rate, implying over 1.4 billion inaccurate readings per month.
  • Error Sources: Mistakes stem from machine misreads (e.g., confusing '0' and 'O', dirt, or partial plate entries) and human errors (e.g., officers entering incomplete data into the NCIC database).
  • Consequences: These errors have led to innocent drivers being detained at gunpoint, swarmed by police, or wrongfully arrested, with incidents occurring across multiple states including Minnesota, Nebraska, and Tennessee.
  • Systemic Issue: The architecture often fails to distinguish between full matches and partial substring matches, amplifying small data entry errors into nationwide surveillance alerts.
Click to expand...
Police should have firm processes for how they use the information and they should not be the only source of info for those kinds of incidents.
 
R

RivaDawg

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Feb 26, 2008
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greenbean.sixpack said:
What does the pack think about Flock Cameras? There have been several treads on local FB groups about them and I am surprised when so many people are for them. The argument is often that our phones are already tracking us. My counter argument is that we "opt in" to our phones, we had no such choice with Flock. Some states have banned or limited the use of this technology, I think we should do the same. Pearl uses license plate readers to send tickets to those without car insurance, (from what I understand there is a decent error rate), but MS banned red light cameras several years ago.
Click to expand...
Probably a dumb question, but how do they know whether or not you have car insurance?
 
M

MSUDOG24

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horshack.sixpack said:
Good if you are cutting wood bad if you are cutting people. All about who is using it and how.
Click to expand...
LOL, well that went right by me. Cutting people with a chainsaw honestly never crossed my mind (but was never into slasher movies). I was trying to some how twist that trees are a good thing but some people use a chainsaw on them in a bad way. How's that for some over thinking?
 
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Puppychow

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Nov 5, 2014
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As former head of our HOA, I installed and operated flock cameras at the entrances of our neighborhood. I had residents asking me to track their spouses and kids. Of course I didn’t. The main uses, for me, were identifying suspicious vehicles based on their description and license plate verification. The cameras are added to the law enforcement networks so they can track BOLO’s. Other than that, they weren’t being used much.
 
mstateglfr

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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ronpolk said:
I’m a fan when these cameras allow me to go thru a toll without having to stop…. Otherwise I kinda think the cops should get out and do their job.
Click to expand...
That isn't what flock cameras are for though.
A toll camera is not a flock camera.

Both use automatic license plate reading tech, but do does the parking garage I use for work.
 
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mstateglfr

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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I am fine with the speeding ticket camera we have on an intrastate through our metro. It tickets the vehicle if it's above 10mph over the speed limit.
For years now, people drive slower than they used to and there are fewer accidents in that area.
No need to pay a cop to sit there every day.


I dislike the concept of flock cameras due to the data gathering and data sharing...both potential for and real examples of.
Some really strong guardrails need to exist. One's that cant just be brokeb/ignored because someone pressured others for the data.
 
HotMop

HotMop

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May 8, 2006
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greenbean.sixpack said:
What does the pack think about Flock Cameras? There have been several treads on local FB groups about them and I am surprised when so many people are for them. The argument is often that our phones are already tracking us. My counter argument is that we "opt in" to our phones, we had no such choice with Flock. Some states have banned or limited the use of this technology, I think we should do the same. Pearl uses license plate readers to send tickets to those without car insurance, (from what I understand there is a decent error rate), but MS banned red light cameras several years ago.
Click to expand...
When Portland and LA banned them I knew they were a good thing.
 
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Dawgbite

Dawgbite

Heisman
Nov 1, 2011
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mstateglfr said:
That isn't what flock cameras are for though.
A toll camera is not a flock camera.

Both use automatic license plate reading tech, but do does the parking garage I use for work.
Click to expand...
Last year I was in Texas and hopped on the LBJ Turnpike tollway. I was driving a rental that I didn’t rent, it was on a company credit card in someone else’s name and three months later I get a toll bill in the mail. That’s kinda scary.
 
greenbean.sixpack

greenbean.sixpack

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Oct 6, 2012
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Shmuley said:
but I don’t know many voters who think it’s okay for people to operate a vehicle without the mandated liability insurance coverage.
Click to expand...
So why stop there, why not breathalyzers required on everyone's vehicle? Why not roadblocks at every intersection? Why not ban cars over 20 year old? All these would increase public safety and reduce insurance costs.
 
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PhredPhantom

PhredPhantom

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There’s a free app in the Apple App Store named DeFlock that shows you on a map where they are located nationwide. (Not sure about Android; I only have iPhone)
 
Maroon13

Maroon13

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Flock cameras make the job of law enforcement easier and safer.

1. bad guys usually don't lay down in one place more than six months. They use Mommas address on gov paper. Flocks make them easy to find while they are committing crime and try to hide from law enforcement.

2. When bad guys run, become fugitives, it's easy for LEOs to follow and track them without high speed chases. Or going to bad address after old addresses to find them.

3. Don't commit crime. Won't be a problem.
 
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WrapItDog

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Maroon13 said:
3. Don't commit crime. Won't be a problem.
Click to expand...

Apr. 2026​

Volusia County, FL​

Based on a Flock capture, officers mistook an innocent driver’s car for one that was at the scene of a deadly accident. The driver was jailed for 13 days.

Nov. 2025​

San Diego, CA​

Based on a Flock capture, officers mistook an innocent driver’s car for one that was at the scene of an attempted carjacking. The driver was jailed for nearly one month.

Apr. 2024​

Toledo, OH​

After a Flock camera misread a “7” as a “2”, officers detained an innocent driver at gunpoint, sicced their dog on him, and jailed him for several hours.

Sep. 2023​

Detroit, MI​

Officers misinterpreted ALPR data and detained an innocent woman at gunpoint, put her autistic child in the back seat of a police car, and impounded her vehicle for several weeks.

Jul. 2022​

Charlotte, NC​

An ALPR hit led to an innocent woman’s arrest after officers entered incorrect information into the license plate reader system.

Jun. 2024​

Morristown, TN​

After a Flock camera misread an “O” as a “0”, officers detained two grandparents at gunpointwhile their three-year-old granddaughter watched from the car.
 
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