England and France, not Mexico. I do know about obesity rates in Mexico and elsewhere. Can't imagine anyone saying "if only we were as healthy as Mexicans, we'd be good at soccer." They're not any better at the sport than we are. What exactly did I get wrong? Argentina is different but you're making my point about class and status. I'd don't know if Mexico or Argentina has anything like Title IX, I suppose I could look it up, but we do and that gave us a head start in women's soccer over every country. Still, the level of soccer in the international women's game is so much lower. Again, structural and class issues. Also, good luck getting lots of educated American moms to send junior off to some soccer academy at age 9.
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DING, DING, DING we have a winner.......Soccer always has been and always will be a secondary sport in this country...........
Those are all good points. Most Mexicans are very small in stature but are tough. I know it was far easier for me to compete among the high school ranks in MS than down there. It’s like geez these are kids are fast, extremely tough and don’t tire down. One of the favorite past times down there was playing soccer in the street. That’s just an average afternoon after their one big meal at 4pm. Was fun times.
I’d imagine our size overall is a big advantage when we play them but historically we haven’t exactly dominated. Offhand I think we are 25 wins, 37 losses, 15 or so ties vs Mexico? Argentina and Brazil… forget it.
100%
We just don't like it that much. Plus, there are other people that are way better at it than us, and we just don't have the "want" to change it because we just don't really care that much. Just think of the entire cultural and structural shifts that would have to be made for high school soccer to become more important than high school football. Now apply that reverse uno card to Europe and it's why they enjoy the occasional spectacle of an NFL game but aren't gonna do anything about trying to ingrain it into their youth sports culture.
The way the Dominicans produce baseball players shows you all you need to know about development, and how much that should cost. We have WAY too much 'structure', i.e. the coaching are subbing players in such a way to win a game based on this and that.
Oh, there's year round training. Just not sure it's good training. Started at 9U for my kid's group (though he decided to play football at that point). Tournaments, 2/3 practices a week, skills training on the other. You could literally do it every day if you wanted, from August to November then January to May. A lot of kids also played indoor during the winter.
Something's not working with it too, because these kids are having a ton of knee surgeries. It's like the UCL of baseball. I don't know if it's just lack of weight training or what. Hard for me to think we're overusing them because like others have said, other countries play even more soccer than we do, daily.
America football is just more popular than soccer, it likely always will be, and it's a great sport. Some of our best athletes play basketball and really good basketball players end up at small, regional universities. That's a pool of talent unavailable for our soccer teams. If you're not really skilled at dribbling and passing at age 14, you're not making any pro team (well maybe goalie). You can become a good football player starting in high school
I agree. And that's not going to change. But the fact still is USA is 10 times bigger than countries like Spain, France, England, Germany, etc. There should still be enough left over after football and basketball to be competitive with them.
I think it’s what others have hit on. The better athletes here in the US aren’t picking soccer. I’m sure in Europe, the best athletes are picking soccer.
It's not good training. Saw an interview with Landon Donovan the other day. He said they don't even teach kids how to shoot properly. It's just pass the ball around and take a shot. OK good. Never any instruction of how to shoot or how to pick out which part of the goal to shoot at. When he went to Europe as a kid to train, they taught proper shooting technique and practiced and drilled it every day. I mean, that's kind of the #1 most important thing a soccer player can do and we don't even teach it or really practice it here. It's no wonder we never have any good strikers or offensive threats.
I guess maybe the government should start subsidizing youth soccer leagues
or maybe Trump could persuade Bezos, Zuckerberg, Anderson, and Musk to underwrite it with lots of media hype and promotion.
I'd help, but my money is going to MSU.
And, as an observer, I have never found soccer not boring.
I mean the goals are cool, but you get maybe 5 of those in a 90 minute game. -- like last night, but they weren't all that exciting.
or maybe Trump could persuade Bezos, Zuckerberg, Anderson, and Musk to underwrite it with lots of media hype and promotion.
I'd help, but my money is going to MSU.
And, as an observer, I have never found soccer not boring.
I mean the goals are cool, but you get maybe 5 of those in a 90 minute game. -- like last night, but they weren't all that exciting.
Two biggies:
- Pay to play (i.e you are getting the best athletes who can afford to pay for travel ball starting about 10)
- Lack of consistent coaching structure and access to trained coaches. Early development is left up to whoever couldn't wiggle out of having to "coach" their kid, and if you aren't paying for the higher level club teams and coaching, you likely aren't getting good coaching.
I thought from watching soccer games that the #1 most important thing that a soccer player can do is when someone touches you to flop like you had been shot with a rifle.
Race and class. Do you want to be a rapper or soccer player. From Grok:
Fifty-four players at the World Cup were born in Paris and its surrounding suburbs, a number that is enough to roster two full tournament squads. Across the entire tournament, the broader Paris region serves as the birthplace for roughly 4.3% of all participating players, far more than any other city. [1, 2, 3]
The Paris banlieues (suburbs) are renowned as one of the most prolific soccer talent factories in the world. Because of the region's high number of dual-nationals, these players represent not only the France National Football Team but also several other competing nations across the globe. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Fifty-four players at the World Cup were born in Paris and its surrounding suburbs, a number that is enough to roster two full tournament squads. Across the entire tournament, the broader Paris region serves as the birthplace for roughly 4.3% of all participating players, far more than any other city. [1, 2, 3]
The Paris banlieues (suburbs) are renowned as one of the most prolific soccer talent factories in the world. Because of the region's high number of dual-nationals, these players represent not only the France National Football Team but also several other competing nations across the globe. [1, 2, 3, 4]
if you want to know the real difference here is a completely fictional but completely plausible career path for an England player. You could do this same thing for all of the big soccer nations.
Born in Broad Green, Croydon
From about as soon as he could walk played street ball.
Age 5: starts playing local organized stuff, turns a few heads but nothing crazy
Age 10: has turned quite a few more heads and local informal scouts are starting to pass his name around
Age 12: West Ham and a couple of others have looked at him, but passed
Age 13: signed by local club Sutton United (5th tier) to their youth set up: Starts getting professional coaching, starts at their academy the next year. Really starts to explode at the academy.
Age 16: signs a pre-professional contract with Queens Park Rangers (2nd tier) that converts to a full Pro contract as soon as he is eligible. Breaks into the first team set up by the middle of his first season.
Age 17: becomes a regular sub and starts a few games at the end of the season. Gets his first England U18 cap.
Age 18: bought by Crystal Palace for £30 million. Is a regular sub from the start. Is starting at age 19.
Age 22: bought by Liverpool for £80 million. Is a sub at first but is a starter by Boxing Day. Gets his first England cap soon after.
The biggest difference between our soccer set up and theirs is that they are getting full time professional coaches at a very early age. The second is that they, because of how much more ubiquitous soccer is there, cast a much wider net. The third is that their best players are exposed to upper level older players at a younger age.
That's all just my two cents from observing the game for a while.
Born in Broad Green, Croydon
From about as soon as he could walk played street ball.
Age 5: starts playing local organized stuff, turns a few heads but nothing crazy
Age 10: has turned quite a few more heads and local informal scouts are starting to pass his name around
Age 12: West Ham and a couple of others have looked at him, but passed
Age 13: signed by local club Sutton United (5th tier) to their youth set up: Starts getting professional coaching, starts at their academy the next year. Really starts to explode at the academy.
Age 16: signs a pre-professional contract with Queens Park Rangers (2nd tier) that converts to a full Pro contract as soon as he is eligible. Breaks into the first team set up by the middle of his first season.
Age 17: becomes a regular sub and starts a few games at the end of the season. Gets his first England U18 cap.
Age 18: bought by Crystal Palace for £30 million. Is a regular sub from the start. Is starting at age 19.
Age 22: bought by Liverpool for £80 million. Is a sub at first but is a starter by Boxing Day. Gets his first England cap soon after.
The biggest difference between our soccer set up and theirs is that they are getting full time professional coaches at a very early age. The second is that they, because of how much more ubiquitous soccer is there, cast a much wider net. The third is that their best players are exposed to upper level older players at a younger age.
That's all just my two cents from observing the game for a while.
We can add athletes to the program all we want but u til we have kids who eat, sleep and breathe soccer under great training and even academy programs it won’t matter. Let’s be real. We didn’t get out athleted last night. We got outclassed in the game of soccer.
I don’t think it’s an athleticism thing, many of the best players in the world are like 5-8 and 160 pounds. We just are way behind in our development of young players. These European academies are identifying kids before they hit puberty. And have been doing so for decades.
We just were really late to the party at a sport a lot of countries do better than us. And it’s going to take a lot for us to ever catch up. We hosted the 1994 World Cup before the MLS had ever played a single game. Literally as a country we’ve only attempted to care about soccer in the last 30 years, and even within those 30 years the progress has been incremental and a slow burn.
We just were really late to the party at a sport a lot of countries do better than us. And it’s going to take a lot for us to ever catch up. We hosted the 1994 World Cup before the MLS had ever played a single game. Literally as a country we’ve only attempted to care about soccer in the last 30 years, and even within those 30 years the progress has been incremental and a slow burn.
Do we care enough about swimming? I agree to some extent but with the right changes, culturally and structurally, we can be top 10. Will that happen? Who knows. We're in a better position to become top 10 in soccer than State is to become top 10 in college football. That won't stop me from being a State fan.
Absolutely. They get them YOUNG, and then train them with professional coaches with actual coaching licenses.
Nah. The Europeans practice with soldiers with guns pointed at them. They get better or get shot. Same as in South America.
We aren’t exactly dominating the sports we take seriously either. Wemby from France? Does the USA really produce the wemby of football and baseball? Not really. Ohtani is by far the most talented baseball player that ever lived… from Japan. Funny enough our youth football team USA lost to Japan by several touchdowns recently. We don’t even win the world baseball classic. Out of 6 world baseball classics, we have won 1, Japan 3. I bet the one we won was a major upset too.
When we care like really care about soccer we will be a top program. That day may never come and that day could be in the next decade but it ain't today for sure.
With that said, I've truly enjoyed the World Cup this year. When I tell you I never watch soccer and know very little of the rules it could be an understatement **** I have started to understand and appreciate the beauty of it and I do plan on watching as much of the rest of the tournament as possible.....something I'd never have said in the past. I'm even considering trying to pick a premier team and watch it this year before nfl games.....crazy talk I know but it seems the needle is slowly moving. When enough people in the US care we'll be a tough out just like every other sport the US cares about.
Fair point (about swimming, hadn't thought about it that way). Maybe because it's more of an indiviudal sport with some team aspect to it like track? Not sure to be honest.
Ok, but there's a bit more to the story than that, let's be honest here:
Team USA was defeated 41-20 by Japan at the IFAF U20 World Junior Championships in Edmonton, Canada. The American roster was largely composed of high school standouts, NAIA, and NCAA Division III (D3) college football players, as USA Football does not send its top-tier NCAA Division I or FBS talent to this tournament. The surprising upset, which eliminated the United States from advancing to the gold medal game, occurred because the Japanese team featured a more cohesive, well-practiced roster that had been training together for months. In contrast, the US squad consisted of players from various programs who had only about a week of practice to build chemistry and learn the playbook.
Really? You list individual unicorns in baseball and basketball from totally different countries and claim we don't dominate both of those sports. Oh the WBC....yeah the tournament where non-American players care more about it than the MLB World Series. Give me the best American players in baseball who don't opt out of the WBC and see how we'd dominate.....just pitching alone....good grief.
The US is extremely serious about individual training for Olympic sports like swimming, track, and gymnastics. Same for a few winter sports like figure skating and downhill skiing.
We had Paul Skenes and Aaron Judge and they lost. Who would you take over those 2 players?