No, they don’t.
At present time, Lebby is the worst head coach we’ve had in any major sport in modern history.
Time will tell if that is where he finishes. But that’s where he is right now.
Did something happen to Croom?
- Thread starter jxndawg
- Start date
At present time, Lebby is the worst head coach we’ve had in any major sport in modern history.
Time will tell if that is where he finishes. But that’s where he is right now.
Maine is a state with a division 1-AA college football team. It was made up of off season hockey players, fishermen and Canadians. Toledo at least plays in the MAC and have had recent success. There is no comparing the 2 losses. Maine is BY FAR worse. It would be like losing to Alaska.
Also "Croom's decent defenses" is a complete myth made up by our fanbase. In a 12 team SEC, State finished in total defense 10th, 9th, 11th, 6th, 11th. So if by decent defenses you mean making the mid point in the league once in 5 years then I guess you got me there.
Maine is a far worse team to lose to, but when you compare the actual games, the Toledo loss (humiliating beatdown) was worse than Maine (fluke).
Well, we did actually have an opportunity to kick a fg to win the game. Dude missed a ~40 yarder by about 20 yards short and 20 yards wide to the left.
Agree. Maine is the worst loss in the history of MSU sports. I also think people think about Crooms defense being pretty good because they were comparing it to the putrid offense.
Don't forget Croom kicked a bunch of players off the team, including Nick Turner at rb. Turner was probably going to start over Norwood if he hadn't left MSU. It worked out thought, because Jerious Norwood turned out to be my favorite RB ever.
You don't seem to understand just how bad the offense was. My brother had the saying "real State fans don't start clapping until the end of the 3rd quarter" during the Croom era. There was zero hope. You just showed up to watch an inept train wreck of an offense that would have been better off with a 1A high school coach. We never threw the ball on 1st down. 2nd down incomplete pass and usually ran it on 3rd down to gain better field position to punt. The whole offense was set up to punt all game, slowly gain field position and he would berate his defensive coordinators if they gave up said field position. If he won 3-0 he did a great job and the plan worked. It was terrible.
I'm not trying to equate statistics with wins and losses.
You also can't compare the league from 2004–08 to what it is today. The game has changed too much, so I judge those teams based on what I actually saw rather than trying to compare numbers across eras.
When Croom's teams took the field, I went into almost every game with very little expectation that we were going to score more than 2 td's...forget winning.
Look at our losses in 2004: 43-14, 9-7, 51-0, 31-13, 27-13, 30-14, 24-21, 20-3.
In 2005: 28-0, 23-10, 37-7, 35-9, 28-16, 13-7, 17-0, 44-10.
Those are some ridiculously terrible scores.
The game that most summed up the Croom era was the spring game which ended regulation tied 0-0 and they had to go to overtime before one of the teams finally scored a touchdown to win 6-0.
I look at it like this, asking for Croom or Lebby is like asking should I get kicked in the left nut or the right? Either one is pretty bad and the one you are currently suffering through is the worst.
My 1st year at msu was his last. Hadn't really followed it that closely before, but I do remember watching that team and thinking, wow, we look terrible.
His first year was my last. We started 6-1 with wins over Syracuse & Tennessee. Then came came crashing back to earth losing last 4 games by combined 160-7.
Good take. One thing that can always be said about the Croom era is that we had stout defenses almost always. I still remember Titus Brown and some other great players.
Team defense ratings are determined by Yards given up per game (total defense) , not points per game as your stats above show. If using the standard measuring stick of YPG average, State in 2004-2008, finished 8, 8, 7, 5, and 10 in total defense in SEC. Ellis Johnson's defenses were quite good, considering the poor recruiting of the era.
Hell, we still do that-burn time-outs when not needed, false starts on third-and-3, followed by a holding call on a sack, clock management failures, etc. It actually feels like a time-warp to 2004-2006 the past 3 seasons.
You aren't helping your argument with these numbers. Like I said before "Croom had good defenses" is a myth our own fanbase made up.
My main point is that he had good defenses when factoring in his recruiting results, admittedly helped by Ellis Johnson's efforts.
I understand, but I still believe Lebaby’s teams would run circles around Croom’s teams
There is nothing more MSU than reading a MSU thread debating / comparing our worst seasons
Death. Taxes. MSU athletics misery.
#FailState
Death. Taxes. MSU athletics misery.
#FailState
Croom had 8 nfl players in season 2
Not counting Omar Connor
how manny players from last years team play in the nfl?
Damn, can you imagine what Micheal Henig felt that day in 2006. You grow up an Auburn fan. You get a chance to play sec ball at State. Then you get to play at Bryant Denny and 17n win. You win!!! Unbelievable!
Hats off Mike!
Croom was so bad that there was a nickname for coaches who got fired after losing to him. How many coaches can say that? Ron Zook, Mike Shula and Ed Orgeron were all Croomed, and I would argue Tommy Tuberville was Croomed as well because even though he beat us, the 3-2 game was such an embarrassment for both teams, that he had to go.
The Toledo loss is like playing chess against a player that you think you should beat and losing in 4 moves.
The Maine loss is like playing chess against your cat and losing, then justifying the performance because it was a close game.
I actually do agree with pookie on the W/L comment, but the problem is that no matter where else you want to look, Lebby is terrible there too. Recruiting, development, in game decisions…. All bad
If Croom was head coach in 2024 we go 2-10. If Croom was head coach in 2025 we go 3-9 beating USM in OT