Also, remember Republicans defunded it. The best way conservatives prove a collective agreement doesn't work is to sabotage it.
Bernie Moreno and Elizabeth Warren: Our Plan to Save Social Security
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
Not to mention, they are bringing up billionaires in a thread discussing raising taxes on people making $185K.
Even if we all agree billionaires should pay more, or even 100+ millionaires ... why are we then proposing that a dad making $200K to support his family should get a tax increase? These people make no sense.
Lol. I feel dumber for having read this.
Yes I’m positive. JFC we can’t have nice things because of fearmongers like yourself. Wealthiest country in the world can’t afford it. Everyone else but us. Stop being ridiculous. Again, big pharma and insurance companies thank you for carrying their water. Dumbest country in the world. Nobody would trade with us.
It won’t be more. Why are you so afraid to do something that even freaking China can pull off with their billion citizens? Our taxes aren’t going up 10 grand per person. Stop sending our money overseas, wasting it on bs wars, etc. Stop the billionaires from skirting taxes.
How do you know taxes aren’t going up 10 grand? Just the SS cap removal proposed ITT would raise my taxes that much several times over.
Propose something for the billionaires and leave hardworking families out of your tax grab.
republicans defended Obamacare? Are you talking the pandemic expanded subsidies?
you do know the wealthiest country is the world is also one of the most in debt. We're $40 trillion, and counting, in debt.
Can we have universal healthcare? Sure we can. Is every American going to pay for it through higher taxes? you bet!
But no problem, you want national healthcare, go for it.
How did the boomers create this problem%? We have contributed what we were told to contribute. Maybe the politicians should have kept their fingers out of the cookie jar. Maybe instead of funding Ukraine and Isreal we could pump a couple million into SS.
SS needs to die a quick death. Any other organization attempting to sell SS as a long term investment product would be shut down for being a pyramid scheme. ( Fraud) it quite literally relies on every generation contributing more than the one they are replacing and gives a fraction of the returns. It’s a pyramid. **** FDR in his royal *******.
So we’re the only country with debt? Stop thinking every American’s taxes are going to go up past the cost of what we already pay for healthcare. Only country in the world because people like you are afraid.
Of course not every American. There are a ton of people who barely pay income taxes.
But the people already paying the lions share of taxes will undoubtedly have substantial increases.
Estimates are that we need an ADDITIONAL $1.5-3 TRILLION in annual tax revenue to fund UHC. An average family only pays around $6850 out of pocket for healthcare premiums. And many will still likely need to purchase supplemental coverage on top of UHC to match their private coverage. The math doesn’t math.
Then what happens to the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people employed by insurance companies? What happens to billions and billions of shareholder value in these companies? What happens with physician wait times? What happens to physician and innovation incentives (ie high comp drives investment and talent)? Etc etc.
This is far more complex than you make it out to be. But for a modest earner with minimal tax consequence- sure, it’s a simple thing for you to want.
Again, it’s weird how everyone can pull this off. We enjoy getting screwed, apparently. Yes it’s a massive undertaking but stop acting like it’s not affordable. Close loopholes for billionaires. Tax them. Stop wasting our tax dollars on stupid stuff Trump wants. Stop wasting it on wars. Sending money to other countries. If you think our taxes are going to go up higher than what insurance companies and big pharma steals from us now then we will continue to get screwed. Chicken s h i t $.
I get where you are coming from. But the answer is to fix the government part (MAYBE... stop congress from dipping into the Social Security Fund in the first place), not punish people who have paid in their whole lives expecting a certain income.
YES! We are the LAZIEST country in the world. No one wants to work anymore and it’s all due to social security and this very DANGEROUS and SOCIALIST idea of retirement!!! MAGA!
So we punish those that are still working vs punishing the people who allowed the government to dip into Social Security and run up a $30 trillion debt?
What loopholes should we close? Taxing unrealized wealth is not the answer.
Absolutely not. We are not out here for a life of leisure, but for productivity.
All of the issues in our country can be traced back to the formation of the welfare state (Medicare and social security) and the advent of the five day work week.
it made Americans SOFT!
I'm not saying that people should be accountable b/c they should. BUT that being said, you are wrong on the "things weren't that bad before Social Security" part. Here you go:
Key points here... Before the SS act was passed, half of all seniors lived in extreme poverty once they couldn't work. That's hardly "not bad".
I know it's just me, apparently, but I don't get why there is a faction so hung up on billionaires. Both parties have made the tax laws and so far the majority of our elected officials seem happy with the tax code...if there is a billionaire who is violating the code, prosecute them. But, again so far, I get the opportunity for the same loopholes as they do.
Yea, a billionaire has more money than I do...but I didn't start Tesla or Google or Microsoft, Amazon, citadel or any of the other companies. They hire hundreds of thousand of employees, make products that benefit all of us, pay federal state and local taxes, make charitable contributions....and get disparaged
the government has decided that you're not smart enough to save/plan for your own retirement...Problem is, in the case of a large segment of our population, they're right.
"Pull this off" is relative. If given the choice, are you going to get heart surgery in Congo or Uzbekistan or the USA? You noted that all countries in the World Cup offer universal health care....
The USA has the highest quality surgeons and procedures in the world. Our model has created the most innovation and the highest incentive for the best and brightest to pursue medicine.
Sticking with just the EU, the average effective tax rate for income + SS is ~39%. There is an ADDITIONAL ~22% average VAT tax.
In the US, that same tax rate is around 21% and there is no national VAT, though there are state and local taxes.
There is a MASSIVE difference in taxes paid between these countries and the USA. So to be like "everyone else," we would need to:
- Accept a reduction in care quality
- Accept a slowing of medical innovation
- Many would need to accept longer wait times for visits and procedures
- Accept substantially higher taxes
I'm sorry, but I have no interest in being like "everyone else."
That's a given,... Unfortunate part is that the government has also proven itself not smart enough to plan for our retirement.
Dude! The French, Spanish, and Italians ALL say hello.
Annual Hours: The average American works roughly 1,811 hours per year. This outpaces peers in Japan (~1,632), the UK (~1,532), and Germany (~1,341)
Time Off: The U.S. is the only advanced economy in the world with no federally mandated paid time off (PTO). This lack of legal requirements forces U.S. workers to rely on employer policies, leading to significantly fewer days off.
and this is the same government that some want to turn over total healthcare to, right?
According to the OECD Average Annual Wages data, average wages differ significantly across these countries due to varying economic scales, tax systems, and purchasing power: [1]
- United States: ~\(\$75,000 - \$80,000+\)
- Germany: ~\(\$68,000+\) (\(\sim \)€66,700)
- Italy: ~\(\$50,500\) (\(\sim \)€36,500)
- Spain: ~\(\$54,400\) (\(\sim \)€32,600) [1, 2, 3]
Breakdown by Country
United States
- Average Salary: \(\sim \$80,000\) to \(\$83,000\) annually
- Notes: The U.S. generally reports the highest gross nominal salaries among major global economies, though this is partially offset by higher out-of-pocket healthcare and living costs. [1, 2]
- Average Salary: \(\sim \$68,104\) (approx. €66,700) annually
- Notes: Leads the major economies in Europe, offering robust labor protections and high productivity, though subject to progressive income tax rates. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Average Salary: \(\sim \$50,514\) (approx. €36,500) annually
- Notes: Does not have a statutory minimum wage; workers rely heavily on collective bargaining agreements which has historically kept wage growth slower than in northern Europe. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Average Salary: \(\sim \$54,460\) (approx. €32,600) annually
- Notes: Gross salaries are comparatively lower, but Spain offsets this with more moderate living costs and a lower Cost of Living Level in most regions compared to the U.S. or Germany. [1, 2, 3]
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Bear, we're almost brothers from different mothers. Think about that. I'll be 69 in August and just started SS in May. Retiring in late August right after turning 69 so I'll be able to spend more time here keeping you in your space.
They see these morons up in Washington and think, "Gee, I'd love for these folks to manage my retirement and healthcare!" It's mystifying.