4 months later and we are still there. Doesn't he know you can end these wars with one phone call? Is Trump stupid or something?
War started in February and Trump told us it would be over in 4 weeks
- Thread starter Huey Grey 2
- Start date
During Trump's first term, when many were calling Trump the worst President ever, I disappointed some fellow liberals by insisting that Bush43 still topped the list.
Why? Because for all Trump's awfulness, he hadn't started any criminal wars yet.
In Bush’s defense he did get authorization from Congress.
Domino Theory of course. It was a total disaster. I wish we could have seen JFK finish out his presidency.
Bush arguably had the worst VP in history and the second worst sec def (to Pete H). Bush had a ton of flaws, but I think he was fooled (like I was) by the MIC lies about Iraqi weapons. I was a big Bush supporter and gung ho on Iraq when it started. I learned a mighty big lesson. A lesson that taught me this Iran folly was a massive strategic blunder.
Alas that was a lesson Trump never learned.
Dems got a massive reconstruction for 2029 and beyond.
And to the OP...Iran has been OBLITERATED...17X.
And to the OP...Iran has been OBLITERATED...17X.
He got a blank check. Then he lied to Congress to cash it. Not much of a defense.
How many voted against the use of force? I think he had like 98% vote in Congress. My point is that the uniparty wanted war and war is what we got. Trump on the other hand didn’t bother to ask.
Iran is still a thorn in his side and he does appear to have miscalculated. He made need to wipe out the rest of the IRGC in order to open the strait. If the strait was open, I think he would leave tomorrow. But Iran is going to make that difficult.
Way too many Dems voted to give Bush that blank check - and shame on them - but not as many as you think. Without looking it up, if you subtract the R votes, the resolution would not have passed both Houses of Congress. One House, but not both. I could be wrong.
Oh heck, I looked it up anyway. Here's what Gemini says (vote tally at the bottom)
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Your memory is largely accurate. In October 2002, Congress passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 107-243). While critics at the time frequently described it as a "blank check," the law did include specific statutory conditions and determination requirements that President George W. Bush had to fulfill before launching an attack.
The Core Authorization
The resolution granted the President the authority to use the U.S. Armed Forces "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" to:- Defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq.
- Enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.
The Statutory Conditions (The "Determination")
Section 3(b) of the resolution explicitly required the President to make a formal determination. Before he could exercise the authority to use military force, or within 48 hours of doing so, he had to submit a written certification to Congress affirming two distinct conditions:- Diplomacy Fails: That further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone would not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the threat posed by Iraq, nor ensure Iraqi compliance with UN Security Council resolutions.
- The 9/11 Connection: That the use of force against Iraq was consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, specifically including those who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.
How It Played Out
President Bush officially met these legal conditions on March 18, 2003, by sending a formal letter and report to Congress.In that document, he certified that further reliance on peaceful or diplomatic means would not protect U.S. national security or enforce UN resolutions regarding Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction (WMDs). He also affirmed that acting against Iraq was a key component of the broader War on Terror. The ground invasion, Operation Iraqi Freedom, began less than 48 hours later, on March 20, 2003.
Congressional Vote Breakdown
The resolution passed with significant bipartisan support in both chambers on October 11, 2002, and was signed into law on October 16:- House of Representatives: Passed 296–133 (Democrats split: 81 in favor, 126 opposed; Republicans: 215 in favor, 6 opposed).
- Senate: Passed 77–23 (Democrats split: 29 in favor, 21 opposed; Republicans: 48 in favor, 1 opposed; Independent: 1 opposed).
Sorry. I didn't read further before responding to your earlier post. I'm glad you took the initiative to do your own checking.
Q: As I recall, Bush's affirmation to Congress was insultingly and dismissively brief. What was the actual language?
Gemini:
Your recollection is spot on. The formal letter President Bush sent to Congress on March 18, 2003, did not offer a detailed defense, new evidence, or an explanatory essay. Instead, it was a highly transactional, boilerplate legal text that copied the exact phrasing of the original congressional resolution back to them, checked the required boxes, and effectively declared that the conditions for war had been met.
The core text of the determination letter, sent to the Speaker of the House and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, reads exactly as follows:
By simply inserting "I determine that..." in front of the criteria Congress wrote for him five months prior, the Bush administration treated the statutory checkmark as a mere bureaucratic formality rather than a moment for deep, evidence-based justification to the legislature. Within 48 hours of this letter being delivered, the bombing of Baghdad began.
Gemini:
Your recollection is spot on. The formal letter President Bush sent to Congress on March 18, 2003, did not offer a detailed defense, new evidence, or an explanatory essay. Instead, it was a highly transactional, boilerplate legal text that copied the exact phrasing of the original congressional resolution back to them, checked the required boxes, and effectively declared that the conditions for war had been met.
The core text of the determination letter, sent to the Speaker of the House and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, reads exactly as follows:
Why it felt brief and dismissive
While the letter was accompanied by a slightly longer, classified report summarizing the administration's stance on Iraqi non-compliance and links to terrorism, the actual legal instrument that triggered the authorization of war was just those two generic paragraphs.By simply inserting "I determine that..." in front of the criteria Congress wrote for him five months prior, the Bush administration treated the statutory checkmark as a mere bureaucratic formality rather than a moment for deep, evidence-based justification to the legislature. Within 48 hours of this letter being delivered, the bombing of Baghdad began.
We're doing slightly better than Russia. Their 3 day war is now in year 4 and going favorably better for Ukraine than Russia. So, we got that going for us.