Irvine yes, but UCLA and further are ok at least in my daughter’s case. I also think UCLA and Berkeley are in a category that should transcend the “too close to home” argument. Not sure the ones I mentioned got into those two but I know they got into UCI and UCSD.
OT: College enrollment and financial issues?
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UCLA and Berkeley are legit Top 5 nationally amongst publics, if not #1 and #2 nationally. Those are schools you suck it up and go to if you get into them whether they are 5 mins away or across country.
They send kids all over Europe. Paris vs Cook, wonder which one the kids preferred
yeah the Tampa thing is nuts. I know someone's whose daughter is heading there. I just laugh
I am talking about making friends, but yes being an 18 year old in Europe is definitely going to be fun as long as you have self control lol
I mean it'd certainly be interesting if there was a huge % of Bay Area kids at UCSD and SoCal kids at Berkeley and Davis but somehow I doubt it. I know a ton of people that grew up in LA and went to UCLA and USC. But if there is info on it I'd love to see it.
Idk if there is a list of top CA schools for OOS but I would imagine Oregon and Arizona and ASU are up there for people who don't make UC. Going to Alabama or Missouri over UCSD or Irvine should cause a brain damage check.
USF is a public school also and therefore cheaper but they may require more than a pulse to get in.
Honestly I think it's two things. One Tiktok culture because they can post it's warm out most of the year, girls post thirst traps etc. And two the parents say they're going to move to Florida and can be hovering. For some reason if that happens in NJ it's bad but in Florida it's wonderful.
And I think they want a private school so it can be filled with NJ kids and be familiar. The kids from NJ just want to be with other wealthy and upper middle class colleagues. Presumably a FL state school would have icky middle class kids and they don't want that!
As I said before, ucla and Berkeley are in a class of their own.
Again, I know the child you are suggesting has brain damage, parents too. Though Mizzou is an interring choice, she wanted a school in the south, bigger athletic profile, etc. it matched her major choice. Very far from brain damaged. Point being, more often than not there’s reasoning behind going further away and it’s not the narrow “ShopRite line” story you constantly run with.
I mean..."a school in the south with a bigger athletic profile"...assuming the child isn't the athlete herself that IS the Shop Rite story.
With the cost of college today, do you really think a middle class kid is thinking of anything but the best school for the best price?
Being able to consider the athletic profile of the school and wanting a region you can only fly to...that's ShopRite right there. It's shorthand for not academics and value, but rather factors that don't matter in the real world- how pretty the campus is is another favorite.
Also...literally no employer outside of Missouri is going to be more impressed with Mizzou over Irvine, indicating a job is likely waiting with a connection.
It's kind of funny. When I was applying, a wealthier parent could foot the bill for a Cult even though it was a lesser school than RU. Now the K shape of the economy is such that that's no longer fancy enough. We need a whole new region- one big on TikTok.
And again, these Southern loving families and students never end up at UF, UGA, GT, Vandy, Emory, Wake Forest, UNC, Duke- the real academic cream of the crop places. Mystery...
Add Tulane, SMU and Rice to the list of the top tier Southern schools. But yeah, the current day NJ kids hellbent on going to a Southern school never end up at the top academic Southern schools like Vandy, Florida, UNC, Wake, Duke, GT, Emory, Tulane, etc. They end up at meh 2nd or 3rd tier state schools like Coastal Carolina or Florida Atlantic lol.
failure in parenting unless the specific program is a top program. Kids getting into ucsd and irvine are not dumb, surprised to see kids choose much lesser academic schools in this regard. agree with you on ucla, it's an outstanding school
The Florida thing is interesting as my youngest is looking at UF and Miami, as well as some other schools out of state, due to program and area of focus. The Florida schools are cheap, even for oos kids so I get that angle from a parent's perspective but then I think about how irresponsible the parent is to pi$$ money away on a degree like Tampa, USF, UCF etc. because it's warm or looks nice. I just don't get it.
The Big 3 in Florida (UF, Miami, FSU) are fine academically, even USF is solid academically. U of Tampa, UCF, FIU, FAU, etc are academic dogs and just goes back to the parents allowing their kids to make poor decisions or just enabling said poor decisions to justify moving to FL.
I'm with you guys. I have people ask me about helping their kids with wall st and I politely tell them that unless they went to a target school, there is no way I can get them into any of the programs. I'm sure it's the same in other industries; I know a few large CPCs that only take marketing and finance kids from target schools for their management programs as well.
Hell, even some graduate/law programs are increasing scrutiny on undergrad degrees.
the big 3 pending program sure (and I'm holding my nose on fsu as I type this) but you'll never convince me on the others.
edit-FSU has gotten better on some things so I'm being harsh but old ways dies hard lol
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For someone who presents as open minded as you, you sure do have a narrow view on this one. Kids should be ok staying home at a state school and being around people of all walks of life. Solid stating point, no disagreement. But choosing to go out of state to see what amounts to a different culture down south for a costal elite is a bad thing? We are talking general state schools here. Your average Rutgers/Ucsd kid isn’t getting into the ivies of the South, we can remove that argument. There’s very much something to be said for seeing other parts or the country and every kid/family doing it isn’t doing it for the tok
what Ivies of the South are you referring to? I've seen kids with ivy like aspirations rejected by UF and kids rejected at Rutger get in to UF. Surely you are not including UF, Miami, Wake, UNC and host of other schools being discussed here as 'ivies of the south that your RU/UCSD kid isn't getting into'
also, the oos admissions process has varied applicability to each candidate at the candidates point in time of applying
Vandy, Duke, Emory, etc. To your latter point I agree, there’s always individual stories behind acceptances and choices. It’s why I think blankly labeling strangers as brain dead or bad parents is a stretch. Of course that applies to some cases but not as broadly as discussed here.
This one popped up in the neighborhood recently. Can’t imagine they are sending her from San Diego to Union for the internet clout.
that's embarrassing to be honest but at least there is a Rutgers touch point!!!!!!
agree on vandy, Emory and Duke, all outstanding schools
I don't understand the decisions parents make with respects to college. I certainly appreciate wanting to your kid to be happy but holy Batman, some are just mind bottling.
They are going as a group. Still make friends. I think it usually a few hundred kids per location. Small percentage can’t handle the “freedom”.
So just from google
I see UCF OOS tuition 22k
Montclair in state tuition 17k
UCF Room and Board 14k
Montclair Room and Board 16k
UCF ranking 117
Montclair ranking 158
So from that angle...3k more a year...and w flights to Orlando being on the cheaper side, people accrue points, etc. I get the logic.
U of Tampa is a private school so I get it less. UCF would have the big school experience, p5 sports, and at least you're not really wasting $$.
I think though the FL schools are the exception, a lot of OOS schools are very expensive and I believe FL also offers some kind of discount if the grandparent lives there. I believe NC may have some cheaper schools, both states have laws about keeping tuition as close to free as possible.
The other SEC states know they have NJ parents by the short hairs because of what the kids see online.
I guess why not do that after graduation? I have a friend from RU who grew up in Middlesex County and now lives in Latin America, another from Mercer in London, never mind people who moved to other states. They did it on their own dime. Jersey Roots, Global Reach.
Doing it on the parents' dime, I don't understand. I wanted to go to NYU. My parents couldn't afford it. For grad school I paid myself and moved to the city. And after a while I was like...I'd much rather live in NJ lol.
You might say the parents can afford it. Sure. That's my point about the Shop Rite line. It's the flash.
I'd be much more impressed at the kid going to UCSD and then the parents saying we'll give you money to buy a condo in the South. Would probably cost way less and the long term investment better.
And my guess is...the kid would run straight back because if you have the money for it...SoCal is FAR better to live in. There's a reason why rich people choose the places they do.
And, a lot of these kids go with their friends from HS and just replicate, at least in NJ. I know people from my HS that went to Cult and then all joined the same frats and sororities. Gross.
If the parents are so loaded as to not care, may as well put the money for the kid to buy a house or sent them to the South (for the culture!) after graduation like kids in my day used to go to Europe.
I have an EU passport. I always figured if I had the money I would say, between college and grad school, here's your passport, live in Europe, sow those wild oats for a year, here's some cash.
That to me is culture, but again, this is what the kids are seeing online. Because there is not one person I went to HS, college or law school with that was like "damn, can't wait to move south!" Cali yes, Europe yes, NYC and Philly of course. And sure I know people who moved for the pandemic and nearly all moved back, one moved to Thailand.
And even at 17 I certainly didn't know it all but could understand when my parents spoke to me about money. They wanted for me what they couldn't afford, but if I seemed irresponsible they'd try to reason with me. Can't parents still do that?
The kid who gets into UCSD from California goes to out of state schools for less than it costs to stay here. So cost doesn’t really factor.
Glad we agree that going out of state is a good thing, we can disagree on when the best time to go is.
I am thinking that unless the kid is desperate to live in St. Louis or KC that an employer is going to be 10x more impressed with the UC school. Idk that I ever met one Mizzou alum anywhere. I know a lot of UC people. And granted, I've spent more time in Cali because professional life has taken me there much more often as well as my social life. And at least as a millennial that is pretty normal IMO.
And with more money, more culture and exploration.
Honestly I think there's also more culture in OC than the middle of Missouri, but with a white collar salary after graduation, the kid could drive around the South and take it all in. My suspicion is though again that it's more about the fraternity and sorority houses and pool parties on TikTok. I see them when they make it to Instagram like all good millennials do. And I see the Gen Z kids when they come into JC and Hoboken (they mostly cannot afford to live here which is also why I suggest saving) and how they try to replicate "Southern" style and post it online. I think the parents just get pressured.
You continually say “I’ve never met someone who…” That’s a rough barometer for whether or not something makes sense to a wide variety of people, it’s all based on your personal worldview. We get it, your idea of “culture” doesn’t exist in the south. There’s plenty of people who would disagree and having more people from difference areas (cultures) interact is usually a good thing. A kid from Jersey or California going to the south, Midwest, etc to a similar state school makes a lot of sense. I can absolutely see our daughter doing it and she doesn’t have a tik tok
University of Missouri dropped out of the USNWR top 100 in 2016 and is ranked 102 in 2026. Over the same time, Rutgers-New Brunswick moved up from 72 to 42, and Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden entered the top 100. Nine UC campuses are in the top 100.
Another problem Mizzou faces is meth. Missouri meth incident data signal Missouri kids in high school today are more likely to raised in households prioritizing meth over education.
Public colleges in Missouri, the rest of the Midwest, and most of the Northeast face strong demographic headwinds. New Jersey is a glaring exception and I am bullish on Rutgers for this reason.
Another problem Mizzou faces is meth. Missouri meth incident data signal Missouri kids in high school today are more likely to raised in households prioritizing meth over education.
Public colleges in Missouri, the rest of the Midwest, and most of the Northeast face strong demographic headwinds. New Jersey is a glaring exception and I am bullish on Rutgers for this reason.
1. No one here is comparing Mizzou to Rutgers academically
2. Drug users in New Jersey far prefer heroin and cocaine to meth, thus explaining your chart. We can thank the mob in the northeast for keeping meth out of here.
If you want to talk about schools in Missouri & St. Louis it kind of starts with Washington University, which is ranked #20 in the USNWR ranking of national private universities.
I hate using usnwr because they are not accurate, fraught with model issues in how they value certain criteria and the weight applied. Not to mention, the overall ratings make no sense when you consider a school like Rutgers that has over 40 top programs across under and grad schools that are top 25. This is more than half the current top 25 lol
that said, I've been to Mizzou for a ball game and it's a fun place and they've some passionate fans. Would I send a kid there for school; HELL TO THE NO!
Wash U is a very good school,has as many top 25 programs as Rutgers
that said, I've been to Mizzou for a ball game and it's a fun place and they've some passionate fans. Would I send a kid there for school; HELL TO THE NO!
Wash U is a very good school,has as many top 25 programs as Rutgers
I would happy to read any source about a Mizzou degree having the value of one from UC Irvine. Can you direct me to a source?
I grew up in an upper middle class town in NJ, so I actually know A LOT of people whose parents paid (never the person themselves, of course) for degrees worth way less than they could have gotten in NJ. And I know what they do now, and what their "cultural" experiences were. And then having gone to RU, I knew a lot middle class kids and their experiences. And then a private law school, the experiences of the actual rich. At my law school, the two top 10 feeder public schools were RU and Michigan...and the rest of the top 10 were schools like UPenn, Cornell, Columbia, GTown, BC...stunning I know, no Missouri. Did know one Arizona kid whose family was connected though!
The south has plenty of culture, but dude, give me a break that Mizzou has more culture than OC. It's just so deluded. Beyond that, financially speaking, the kid and family would be 10x better off using the UC system and then moving to the South. Much like, of course, RU did and does have more culture than State College. But the people in question wanted the culture of middle of nowhere PA for a specific reason.
And again, just mindblowing that the elite schools in the South with P4 sports like UF, UGA, GT, UNC, Wake, UVA etc don't ever figure into these discussions. I guess they're campus isn't beautiful enough or something.
Don't be silly, Brayden and Jayden can't go there, they need big time athletics! That's what college is based on, not the academic profile of the school!
I hate using usnwr because they are not accurate, fraught with model issues in how they value certain criteria and the weight applied. Not to mention, the overall ratings make no sense when you consider a school like Rutgers that has over 40 top programs across under and grad schools that are top 25. This is more than half the current top 25 lol
that said, I've been to Mizzou for a ball game and it's a fun place and they've some passionate fans. Would I send a kid there for school; HELL TO THE NO!
Wash U is a very good school,has as many top 25 programs as Rutgers
Like I said I'm open to any source that would say otherwise but my doubt is we're going to get one.
The source is the Shop Rite line (or Ralph's in CA)....it isn't USNWR, it's not grad school admission, it's not employers, it's not some other ranking.
It's like the gems I've seen in other threads here. We don't understand the beauty of the Tennessee campus. We don't understand the turf management program at Clemson. We don't understand the culture that one will find in the middle of rural Missouri that you simply won't get in Orange County, probably one of the most racially and economically diverse places on the planet Earth laden with beaches, sunshine, and beautiful people and between 2 cities every 20 something dreams of living in, next to a military base and 1.5 hours from an international border.
Cocaine is much less harmful than meth, but you take a look at drug use numbers, and crime, NJ is always among the lowest.
I am not going to pin that on a college. I will say though that overall demographic trends are worth looking at.
And when I say trends I mean data, not like our NJ genius brigade that says "New Brunswick is so dangerous" without data and then sends their kids to places with much more crime. I am sure there's a CA equivalent shaking in their boots about Westwood like the cul de sac warriors on this board who saw broken glass in Hoboken.
For the 11th time, no one is saying these degrees are remotely comparable. My point is going away from home has value and people make decisions based on a lot of factors. Having a daughter approaching the process I talk to a lot of families about what made them choose all types of schools and it’s far less narrow than you’d like people to believe
I’ve seen Irvine listed as one of the 10 most dangerous college campuses the same week I think it was named one of the safest cities in the country. Those lists are all comedy
Right. And the idea that "exploring Southern culture" or "big time athletics" for a non-athlete should be up there with academics is:
1. Exactly what the Shop Rite phenomenon is
2. Stupid
3. A poor reflection on its protagonists
4. Enhanced by social media, especially TikTok
I didn't say it's not "narrow." But if we're putting Missouri and Irvine in the same bucket, it damn well should be 10x more narrow.
I have seen a lot of stupid helicoptering, but I have to really laugh at the idea that 99% of parents are going to roll up to New Brunswick or Irvine unprompted, or that someone is not going to be exposed to a completely new kind of culture in those places...and that on top of it, the cuckoo parent isn't going to fly to Missouri and that the "culture" there is going to be something you don't find in OC. Ludicrous.
And BTW I would say the same thing for say a CA kid who needs to explore NYC culture. Wait till grad school or employment. We're loaded with west coasters here, and they mostly went to west coast schools.
They are, but someone heavily invested could look up the crime stats themselves.
Someone afraid of Irvine I would imagine has agoraphobia, period, or is just insane.
People who have raised kids and been through the process know this.
Agreed, always easy to judge the decisions of faceless/nameless strangers