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The American Public Has Gotten the Message on College Degrees

atl-cock

atl-cock

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Many consider the college degree a form of job training. Historically, it is not. It is to teach you how to think critically and independently and learn on your own.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten a degree in broadcast journalism from USC and a two-year computer science degree from Midlands Tech.
 
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bayrooster

bayrooster

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Technical college degrees are in somewhat limited fields, but tend to be (potentially) high-earning ones. They also don't offer curricula in fields there isn't a real demand for, unlike 4-year universities.
 
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adcoop

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Skuddy said:
Was Charlie Kirk right? I think so.

Getting a 4 year degree in transgender studies and expecting to make a living wage with that is bat **** crazy.
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I will never agree with this. I think the problem with America right now is this movement to dumb down too much. People want to talk about medicine with no training. They want to be psychologists with no degrees. I have had experience with guys that barely have a high school diploma want to argue with me about the Constitution. Everyone wants to jump on a podcast spouting nonsense. Now, getting a degree in Interdisciplinary Studies may be worthless. However, these are the decisions that grown-ups have to make in life. Do your research on the job market, where is it going, what jobs are going away, and finally look within on what your interests are. A person that does what they love will most likely be able to make money with it. If you are not passionate, you will probably be mediocre at whatever you are doing and earn less.
 
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Skuddy

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adcoop said:
I will never agree with this. I think the problem with America right now is this movement to dumb down too much. People want to talk about medicine with no training. They want to be psychologists with no degrees. I have had experience with guys that barely have a high school diploma want to argue with me about the Constitution. Everyone wants to jump on a podcast spouting nonsense. Now, getting a degree in Interdisciplinary Studies may be worthless. However, these are the decisions that grown-ups have to make in life. Do your research on the job market, where is it going, what jobs are going away, and finally look within on what your interests are. A person that does what they love will most likely be able to make money with it. If you are not passionate, you will probably be mediocre at whatever you are doing and earn less.
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I think you say you disagree with me because I mentioned Charlie Kirk. In fact, you did agree with me on "interdisciplinary studies". Those are the degrees I am talking about. Other degrees don't pay all that well and yes that is a grown-up decision. Some degrees you have to go further and with the expense of college these days, it may not be feasible for a lot of people.
 
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Lurker123

Lurker123

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Skuddy said:
I think you say you disagree with me because I mentioned Charlie Kirk. In fact, you did agree with me on "interdisciplinary studies". Those are the degrees I am talking about. Other degrees don't pay all that well and yes that is a grown-up decision. Some degrees you have to go further and with the expense of college these days, it may not be feasible for a lot of people.
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The Kirk name is very triggering for some. And yes, he was right.

Your point is correct though. To oversimplify, college is not a scam for STEM degrees, but is for transgender degrees.

The degree matters.

Now, college as a whole is way more expensive than it needs to be, and addressing that would alleviate the "scam" nature for a lot of degrees.

But to your point, some colleges are full of useless degrees, charging people a lot of money for some worthless liberal arts degree only for these people to get a job selling coffee.
 
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adcoop

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Skuddy said:
I think you say you disagree with me because I mentioned Charlie Kirk. In fact, you did agree with me on "interdisciplinary studies". Those are the degrees I am talking about. Other degrees don't pay all that well and yes that is a grown-up decision. Some degrees you have to go further and with the expense of college these days, it may not be feasible for a lot of people.
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Of course, that too. However, I disagree with the overall premise of a college degree is worthless. Charlie Kirk to me was a symptom of the problem more than the solution. He was out here questioning the qualifications of people and he had very little in the way of that himself. He didn't even graduate from the Community College he went to, but he was out here talking about qualifications. I applaud his success. However, how many people are going to be able to do what he did with little to no education. He was an anomaly. Not the rule going forward. He is probably one of the reasons the enrollment of white males is still going down despite all of this push against DEI.
 
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Skuddy

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adcoop said:
Of course, that too. However, I disagree with the overall premise of a college degree is worthless. Charlie Kirk to me was a symptom of the problem more than the solution. He was out here questioning the qualifications of people and he had very little in the way of that himself. He didn't even graduate from the Community College he went to, but he was out here talking about qualifications. I applaud his success. However, how many people are going to be able to do what he did with little to no education. He was anomaly. Not the rule going forward. He is probably one of the reasons the enrollment of white males is still going down despite all of this push against DEI.
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Well, I'm not going to get into a Charlie Kirk argument. You will say you have watched his debates objectively, but I am sure all you have done is digest the liberal narrative about him as the gospel truth.

If you want to discuss solutions to the price of a college education, I am here.
 
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Lurker123

Lurker123

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Skuddy said:
Well, I'm not going to get into a Charlie Kirk argument. You will say you have watched his debates objectively, but I am sure all you have done is digest the liberal narrative about him as the gospel truth.
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I dont think he really watched anything other than edited snippets of Charlie.

If he had, he'd have known Charlie spoke directly to the "argument from authority" and how some people think the degree, rather than the facts, make them correct.
 
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adcoop

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Lurker123 said:
Retard, are you asking for a response so that you can then whine and cry about someone "stalking" you?
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Like I thought, you have nothing intellectual to say and you still are being disrespectful even after your little crash-out yesterday. I think I will continue this conversation with Skuddy. As he seems to be a reasonable person even if we may disagree in some regards.
 
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Lurker123

Lurker123

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adcoop said:
Like I thought, you have nothing intellectual to say and you still are being disrespectful even after your little crash-out yesterday. I think I will continue this conversation with Skuddy. As he seems to be a reasonable person even if we may disagree in some regards.
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Lmao, didn't read the whole thread before replying, did you retard?
 
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Piscis

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adcoop said:
Of course, that too. However, I disagree with the overall premise of a college degree is worthless. Charlie Kirk to me was a symptom of the problem more than the solution. He was out here questioning the qualifications of people and he had very little in the way of that himself. He didn't even graduate from the Community College he went to, but he was out here talking about qualifications. I applaud his success. However, how many people are going to be able to do what he did with little to no education. He was anomaly. Not the rule going forward. He is probably one of the reasons the enrollment of white males is still going down despite all of this push against DEI.
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I don't think any degree is "worthless", however, some degrees have very little value in the marketplace. If someone wants to spend a ton of money on an art appreciation degree or a women's studies degree, more power to them. When those people want to borrow money to obtain those degrees and then expect taxpayers, some of whom never went to college at all, to repay their loans (this is what student loan forgiveness is), I have a real problem with that.

As to Kirk's education, while he didn't have a formal college education, he was a very educated man. If you listened to him discuss issues, he was extremely knowledgeable about history, economics, government and he was also very well spoken. He was self educated to a pretty high level. Not many people will be able to achieve what he did because not many people are willing to put in the time and effort that he put in.

Charlie pointed out the fact that the higher education industry in the US is raking in billions of dollars in borrowed money and some of the degrees being awarded have basically zero value in the marketplace. I don't ever recall him saying the entire idea of a college degree was a bad thing.
 
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Lurker123

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Piscis said:
I don't think any degree is "worthless", however, some degrees have very little value in the marketplace. If someone wants to spend a ton of money on an art appreciation degree or a women's studies degree, more power to them. When those people want to borrow money to obtain those degrees and then expect taxpayers, some of whom never went to college at all, to repay their loans (this is what student loan forgiveness is), I have a real problem with that.

As to Kirk's education, while he didn't have a formal college education, he was a very educated man. If you listened to him discuss issues, he was extremely knowledgeable about history, economics, government and he was also very well spoken. He was self educated to a pretty high level. Not many people will be able to achieve what he did because not many people are willing to put in the time and effort that he put in.

Charlie pointed out the fact that the higher education industry in the US is raking in billions of dollars in borrowed money and some of the degrees being awarded have basically zero value in the marketplace. I don't ever recall him saying the entire idea of a college degree was a bad thing.
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Spot on. Especially the part where taxpayers are asked to pay for a degree that cant provide a career that allows the individual to even afford the loan.

I would argue the "worthless" term at that point, but thats semantics.

This is the crux of this debate though:
Piscis said:
I don't ever recall him saying the entire idea of a college degree was a bad thing.
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He didn't. He used the eye catching phrase "college is a scam" to garner attention/responses/debate.

Anyone who watched him actually discuss the topic knows he was quite emphatic that some degrees are very worth it, and that the different degrees make all the difference.

If someone tells you that they object to his belief that all college was a scam, then they weren't reacting to him, they were reacting to what their political party told them he said.

It is amazing to me (but shouldn't be) how many people had very strong feelings about what he was supposed to have believed. And it becomes apparent when talking to them that they had no clue what he believed. They let politics tell them who to hate and why.
 
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adcoop

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Skuddy said:
Well, I'm not going to get into a Charlie Kirk argument. You will say you have watched his debates objectively, but I am sure all you have done is digest the liberal narrative about him as the gospel truth.

If you want to discuss solutions to the price of a college education, I am here.
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I disagree with you judging me on Charlie Kirk because I don't see him in the glowing terms as you do. I am just the type that will immediately look up your educational bio as soon as you start to get attention. If that bio does not meet the standards of what I see you talking about, I won't listen to you. I know it sounds a little academically haughty, but I worked hard for my two degrees. I don't need someone with nothing out here telling me who is qualified and who is not.

Now, getting to the matter of affordability, I think you have to address the matter of inflation at large first. Everything costs more. I will just keep my example to the University of South Carolina because that is what I know. The tuition cost of the University of South Carolina has increased roughly 20% over the past 10 years. That seems terrible. However, the cost of groceries has increased roughly 35% over that same period. Gas has increased roughly 80% over that same period. So, I think we have to take it one step at a time and address inflation in general. Then, we can get into the micro with education.

There are ways to combat the rising cost of education especially in this state. The Life Scholarship is attainable for any student that is really trying. All you have to do is rank in the top 30% of your graduating class and have a 3.0 GPA. Even if you miss one of those benchmarks, you get it with a 1100 on your SAT or 22 on your ACT. Those are achievable goals that will knock $5,000.00 off your tuition each year. This scholarship is not need based and the criteria is very achievable.

Further, you can get another $7500 each year through the Palmetto Fellows scholarship. This scholarship is more exclusive. Requires you to get a 1200 on the SAT, have a 3.5 GPA, or finish in the Top 6% of your class. Yes, this is harder to achieve, but a student can do it if he is about getting what is available to him. Put these scholarships together and you almost have your tuition paid for. This doesn't take into account work study and other federal grants you can get.

Finally, most schools have monthly based payment plans available. It can be difficult, but you should be able to get your child out of college without them being in debt if you plan it right.
 
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Lurker123

Lurker123

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Lurker123 said:
I dont think he really watched anything other than edited snippets of Charlie.

If he had, he'd have known Charlie spoke directly to the "argument from authority" and how some people think the degree, rather than the facts, make them correct.
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Called it AGAIN.
 
Lurker123

Lurker123

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adcoop said:
What authority? His? Spoken like a guy without a degree. It's okay to be right. Doesn't hurt to have the degree too. People just don't want to do the work and take shortcuts these days.
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Not his authority, retard. You could have simply looked up the term, but putting your foot in your mouth seems to be your preference.

"Its okay to be right" doesnt really go with " If that bio does not meet the standards of what I see you talking about, I won't listen to you."

Congrats, you've volunteered as the poster child for "argument from authority". Facts dont matter, the truth doesnt matter, the DEGREE is all that matters.
 
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adcoop

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Lurker123 said:
Not his authority, retard. You could have simply looked up the term, but putting your foot in your mouth seems to be your preference.

"Its okay to be right" doesnt really go with " If that bio does not meet the standards of what I see you talking about, I won't listen to you."

Congrats, you've volunteered as the poster child for "argument from authority". Facts dont matter, the truth doesnt matter, the DEGREE is all that matters.
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Facts? From Where? You wouldn't know what a citation was if I hit you in the face with it. Just saying something "With Authority" doesn't make it true.
 
Lurker123

Lurker123

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adcoop said:
Facts? From Where? You wouldn't know what a citation was if I hit you in the face with it. Just saying something "With Authority" doesn't make it true.
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Holy crap. You still didn't even bother to look up the term yet. You dont even know what it is you're arguing.

10 seconds on Wikipedia and you could go from making my point for me to something like "I dont have time for this". Lmao

This is honestly hysterical.
 
Uscg1984

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I think asking if college is worth it is like asking if vacation is worth it. Nobody would attempt to answer if vacation is worth it without knowing where you plan to go, for how long, doing what activities, and at what cost. It's also probably important to understand exactly what you hope to get out of the vacation (relaxation, action, culture, education, etc). Whether it was worth it or not is ultimately going to come down to the individual person. I think college is much the same way.

As a rule of thumb, however, I think if you are complaing about your student loan payments 10, 12, or 15 years after graduation, especially if you are asking for somebody else to forgive that debt, that's probably tantamount to an admission that your particular college experience wasn't worth the cost. Some people probably need to be honest with themselves.
 
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Lurker123

Lurker123

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Uscg1984 said:
I think asking if college is worth it is like asking if vacation is worth it. Nobody would attempt to answer if vacation is worth it without knowing where you plan to go, for how long, doing what activities, and at what cost. It's also probably important to understand exactly what you hope to get out of the vacation (relaxation, action, culture, education, etc). Whether it was worth it or not is ultimately going to come down to the individual person. I think college is much the same way.

As a rule of thumb, however, I think if you are complaing about your student loan payments 10, 12, or 15 years after graduation, especially if you are asking for somebody else to forgive that debt, that's probably tantamount to an admission that your particular college experience wasn't worth the cost. Some people probably need to be honest with themselves.
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I won't do it justice, but i heard someone put it well once. It had to with taking out a personal loan at 18 for 100k. The bank would want collateral, cosigners, and a very detailed plan for repayment, (etc) and would probably turn down most, if not all applicants.

But 100k loan to an 18 year old to go to college? In a degree that has little to no chamce of landing a well paying job? Rubber stamp.
 
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vacock

vacock

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atl-cock said:
Many consider the college degree a form of job training. Historically, it is not. It is to teach you how to think critically and independently and learn on your own.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten a degree in broadcast journalism from USC and a two-year computer science degree from Midlands Tech.
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A computer science prof at Greenville Tech did exactly that.
 
atl-cock

atl-cock

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Lurker123 said:
The Kirk name is very triggering for some. And yes, he was right.

Your point is correct though. To oversimplify, college is not a scam for STEM degrees, but is for transgender degrees.

The degree matters.

Now, college as a whole is way more expensive than it needs to be, and addressing that would alleviate the "scam" nature for a lot of degrees.

But to your point, some colleges are full of useless degrees, charging people a lot of money for some worthless liberal arts degree only for these people to get a job selling coffee.
Click to expand...
College is not about job training. That's what tech schools are for.
 
atl-cock

atl-cock

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adcoop said:
Of course, that too. However, I disagree with the overall premise of a college degree is worthless. Charlie Kirk to me was a symptom of the problem more than the solution. He was out here questioning the qualifications of people and he had very little in the way of that himself. He didn't even graduate from the Community College he went to, but he was out here talking about qualifications. I applaud his success. However, how many people are going to be able to do what he did with little to no education. He was anomaly. Not the rule going forward. He is probably one of the reasons the enrollment of white males is still going down despite all of this push against DEI.
Click to expand...
And people misinterpret DEI to be the equivalent of affirmative action. It is not.
 
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usc_nc

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All I got to say… a few weeks ago, those Astronauts with PHDs and Master’s degrees wanted a little plumber with a GED….. and then again he would have need 100 engineers to design a way to get up to the spacecraft to fix it.
 
PrestonyteParrot

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Colleges in general have gone off the rails as a true source of education and independent thinking when money and the profit motive became the focus and professors became ''social media influencers'' with a captive audience. And to cap it off, our taxpayer dollars are being used to finance loans to pay for the student's ''subscription'' to this overpriced service which provides little value for the graduate's prospects to pay back the loans.
 
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Lurker123

Lurker123

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atl-cock said:
College is not about job training. That's what tech schools are for.
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Understand the notion. But we cant deny there is a direct correlation between some degrees and job opportunities, and some are oftentimes requirements for some fields.

Lord knows not many people use calculus ever again when they step off campus. But a STEM degree is light-years ahead of transgender studies degrees when it comes to getting a job that can afford to pay off the loan.

Unless your comment is trying to remove the job from the equation entirely? Some in my extended family hold this notion that college is just to "make you a more well rounded person". No thought of finding a career.

That might have been doable when a summer job could pay for school, but with price tags of over 100k, and now people wanting to force others to pay off their loan for them? I have no interest in paying the loan of an art history major so she can pour my coffee. (Ill admit though, i dont drink coffee)
 
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Gamecock Jacque

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usc_nc said:
All I got to say… a few weeks ago, those Astronauts with PHDs and Master’s degrees wanted a little plumber with a GED….. and then again he would have need 100 engineers to design a way to get up to the spacecraft to fix it.
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Would it be faster and easier for the astronauts to learn plumbing or the plumber to be taught to be an astronaut? Not everyone is born with the same abilities.
 
atl-cock

atl-cock

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Lurker123 said:
Understand the notion. But we cant deny there is a direct correlation between some degrees and job opportunities, and some are oftentimes requirements for some fields.

Lord knows not many people use calculus ever again when they step off campus. But a STEM degree is light-years ahead of transgender studies degrees when it comes to getting a job that can afford to pay off the loan.

Unless your comment is trying to remove the job from the equation entirely? Some in my extended family hold this notion that college is just to "make you a more well rounded person". No thought of finding a career.

That might have been doable when a summer job could pay for school, but with price tags of over 100k, and now people wanting to force others to pay off their loan for them? I have no interest in paying the loan of an art history major so she can pour my coffee. (Ill admit though, i dont drink coffee)
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Thanks for an even-handed, objective reply.

You'll note in a previous comment of mine what I would do differently with my college career if I could.

I will state that English or Philosophy are excellent majors for law school, since the classes teach you how to think, analyze, and write.
 
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vacock

vacock

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And math, science, and engineering are needed for work that requires math, science, and engineering. Also good to understand cause and effect often misunderstood when emotions are strong.
 
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KingWard

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I think that the lucrativity of transgender study degrees is in question unless a person with an advanced degree (more expenditure) goes on to teach this "discipline" as a tenured professor and publishes books of esoteric interest in the field. I would describe the financial prospects as "narrow", in case one objects to a characterization of "limited".
 
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