I was commenting on the rebounding rate comparison. Yeboah played like a wing on offense, but I thought much more like a traditional 4 on defense. I recall RHJ played the 3 that year becuase we had Yeboah.
BB Recruiting Coastal Carolina transfer G Rasheed Jones commits to Rutgers
- Thread starter Richie O
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You keep calling him a 4, he wasn't, just a forward who played on a pretty small team at SB. He was listed at 6'6 at Stony Brook, Smith at 6'7 at CCSU, Jones at 6'6, Syndor at 6'8.
The offense would look different with ball handlers around Tariq, but it also would render him less relevant without the ball.
One sites stats. Yeboah was the best player on a 24 or 25 win SB team. None of these other guys won 20.
AY true shooting his last two years at SB, .589 then .529 - .545 at RU. Smith .653 then .587, Jones .513 then .535, Syndor .537. Not much difference.
AY win shares his last two years at SB 7.4 (3.2 at RU), Smith 6.5, Jones 5.8, Syndor 2.4 (one year)
AY box +/- his last two years at SB 4.5(7.1 at RU), Smith -1.1, Jones -.6, Syndor -1.6 (one year) - their teams were better without them.
I agree, if even two of the transfers give us the impact AY had it's a great thing. You can tell I think he's even a little underappreciated here by some!
He played the the 4 on defense at Rutgers. We don’t really distinguish between a 3 and a 4 on offense. At least traditional Pike teams have not.
Who says Tariq won’t have the ball? He didn’t play all that much without either J Mike or Lino in the game and had the ball plenty. Receiving the ball in the halfcourt sets and penetrating doesn’t mean you have to be play the point. He no longer needs to be the one to walk the ball across halfcourt if we’re not playing another small guard. He’s much better off being able to run ahead and receive the ball with space.
Unless there is a press, who dribbles the ball across half court is irrelevant, anyone can do it. Once across Tariq needs the ball in his hands to be effective, which was why last years team was tailor made for him, no one else needed the ball, except Lino. If you have a team full of guys that can hold it and orchestrate, Tariq becomes much less effective since the ball won't be looking to make it's way back to him.
Don’t be shocked if Jones plays some point and brings the ball up, not saying he’s our full time point guard but I bet he plays some point. He did some of this at Coastal, Pike likes his big guards up top, Geo (6’4”), Paul (6’6”), JWill (6’4”), Simpson (6’3”), Dylan (6’6”). Jones is 6’6”, I will not be shocked at all if he plays some PG. PG looks like it will be a shared role anyway (some Francis, some Lino, some JMike, and I see some Jones). Depending on whichever one stands out in early season games, I believe that will be the one who gets more run at the PG position especially at crunch time. I think we are looking at an early season competitive tryout for this role.
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True but he showed very little ability to catch and shoot. He is an ISO player and we brought in 3 very high ball dominant players. If we are going to be successful TF will be taking a step back this year.
I disagree. Tariq isn’t great at getting the offense started. He only brought the ball up when he played without JMike or Lino. The other two bring the ball up with purpose and pass more in stride to the perimeter to get us in flow. A lot of time came off the shot clock when Tariq brings it up. He can certainly get better at it but that was the biggest problem I thought when he played point (Seton Hall press not withstanding). I don’t think it will be an issue now.
That’s not true. Tariq is an awesome “thrasher”. Best I’ve ever seen who lacks explosive speed and succeeds instead via craftiness. Most “thrashers” do what they do via speed (Tez for example).TF is much better off running down the court and receiving the ball there than first having to break a defender who picks him up around halfcourt and get the offense started.
I do agree he’s more effective off the dribble but he’s also more effective receiving the ball down court in position to only have to beat one guy to make something happen that first having to make a play to avoid an on ball defender to get the offense started. Again - we didn’t have anyone else other that J Mike or Lino who could be trusted consistently not to lose the ball in that single coverage so TF had to play that role by default at times last season unless we played 2 small guards.
Let me add that Tariq didn’t play the point last season very much - so I’m not sure why folks are saying he was successful because he had the ball on his hands as the PG. J Mike and Lino averaged over 40 mpg on the season and barely played together. Tariq didn’t play without a PG all that often.
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Fans seemed to have more patience with Young upon arrival
I could not stand him early on, he could not dribble and keep the ball
I wanted him off the court
Mark has the same speed,and did not fumble the ball away as much......and is/was a true freshman
Your comparison of the two is a good one
Tariq is terrible at getting the offense started (JMike was only guy who tried that), Lino also as he was only looking for his opening to drive. Tariq would usually make the right play, but like you say, after dribbling 20 seconds off the clock to find that play. I don't see that issue changing.
To be clear, I didn’t say that would change. The only thing that might change is that it’s possible Jones and / or Smith are strong enough with the ball in single coverage bringing the ball up in the halfcourt set to assume that role for stretches while Tariq (and not the other 2 small guards) are in the game. Both of them are better ball handlers than every other player on last year’s roster enabling the possiblity of Tariq being on the court without another small guard and not having to assume the role you described. That was my only point. In this case, Tariq would be playing a similar role on offense as he did last year. The difference would simply be that we wouldn’t always need 2 small guards playing together.
Lino made a lot of frosh decisions and forced things at times, but for better or worse, the offense moves at a fast pace when he’s at point - whether he penetrates or passes to the wing.
To paragraph 1 - it had to be Tariq bringing the ball up if it wasn’t J Mike or Lino. Powers and Zrno could not be trusted if picked up in coverage at halfcourt. Buchanan has no left so he too struggles with on ball pressure. I honestly think the next best ball handler on the team after the 3 small guards might’ve been Bryce Dortch. I’ve watched enough film on Jones and Smith to say with strong confidence that both of them have better handling skills. This isn’t a skill where competition level plays that big a role. The low major D1 level is good enough to observe who can handle the ball when pressured on ball and who can’t.
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Do you agree with the ball dominant additions for us to be successful he has to take a step back so others can flourish?
Agreed he didn’t play PG because he is not a PG. The 2 players we have listed as PG more specifically JMike take the ball up the court, handoff to TF top of the key and then just stand around. So I get ppl being confused constantly seeing TF top of the key with the ball. Unfortunately that’s our “ offense”.
Lino obviously showed flashes pushing pace and finishing. The Hope is he takes the next step but it will be interesting to see at what pace we play at?
No - I’m not sure what you mean by “take a step back”. If you simply mean that since we may have more scoring threats than we did last year, he may end up attempting less than 432 shots (round to 500 bringing back the misses he was fouled on) then sure. But I think there’s a good chance he’ll be a lot more efficient if he’s not the only scoring threat for the defense to focus on. Anyone who watched his game all season and is being honest has to recognize that you mostly saw the best of him early in games until teams realized he was the whole damn offense and zoned in on him. Also - it’s not like he started games off by forcing highly contested shots hoping to get fouled. He did that later in games at times when it became apparent nobody else could do anything and we were suffering scoring drouts. I actually think HIS game could “thrive” (your word for others) when surrounded by other scoring threats for the first time in his career. Not too many defenders can shut him down in single halfcourt coverage.
Obviously we all hope this happens
But this requires both him and the coaching staff to recognize the NEED to adapt and to activity work out a game plan to do so
I have no idea about Tariq’s ability and willingness to do so… so won’t comment on that
but this coaching staff has shown ZERO ability to develop an offensive game plan around the talents of its players. So consider me very skeptical
with that said - next year - if Tariq is going into ball hog mode (which WAS largely necessary last year but will likely be detrimental next year ) - don’t blame Tariq - blame the coaches for not devising an offense
See - I just don’t get where folks are getting that Tariq needs to change what he’s doing or shift his mindframe drastically. He’s not a ball hog and simply doesn’t come across as one in game play. His first instinct as a player isn’t to force the issue. When games started to get out of hand, at times he did so which virtually every star player on any team ends up doing. He actually had some success drawing fouls off those contested shots. But it’s not like he comes across as a player who wanted or needs to play this way to succeed. JY and Tez were much more “me” style offensive players than Tariq in my opinion. For the most part, TF comes across as a smart IQ player on both ends who makes the correct basketball play most of the time. His size and lack of explosive speed create some limitations to what he can do on both ends, but he uses his craftiness to maximize the things he’s good at which makes up for some of his physical deficiencies. He’s not a natural PG and isn’t really comfortable in the role of navigating pressure bringing the ball up and ideally won’t have to be thrust into that role (he didn’t bring it up much last year and don’t expect that to change considering we have more ball handlers now - not less). That’s the scouting report on TF. I’m not sure why folks things he needs to change drastically for us to succeed. I don’t see that.
So you think TF is still going to have the ball in his hands for 20-25 sec every possession again? You think TF is going to get up the same amount of shots and increase his scoring average ? Our staff has shown the ability to run an offense to include multiple scoring options at a high level? Let’s just see if he starts first .
I’m not sure I follow. The things you are pointing to are not how / the primary reason TF scored the bulk of his points. They are rather the reason he wasn’t more efficient overall. We didn’t have anyone else who could do all that much so after Tariq burned teams a couple times, they adjusted and focused on him. There’s no reason to think he couldn’t make the same 5 baskets a game on 10 recorded attempts rather than 14. There’s no way he’s not taking 10 shots a game. Kaden Powers only played 15 mpg and took almost 7 this year. And there’s no way he doesn’t average at least 3 FTs a game. He’s very good at drawing contact and selling it when we’re in the bonus. Unless all the newcomers come in and are absolute rock stars he’ll be averaging at least 12 ppg.
I actually agree with 95% of what you said.
Tariq did what he had to do last year. And I had no problem with him being “ball dominant” when he needed to be last year
my only point is that next year - if these incoming players provide the more scoring options we think they will - then we will NOT need him to play that way.
So there should be some adaption.
Again - I am not saying he can’t adjust …. But can the coaching staff?
My point was, he didn’t play that way last year until games were slipping away from us. If that no longer happens in games, then logic suggests he’ll continue playing the way he always did for us early in games which was generally a good thing. If there are other scoring threats to focus on, teams also won’t be paying as much attention to him so that’s a good thing too.