What was the problem with this baseball team?...

thekimmer · Monday at 9:13 AM

First let me say I am pleased with the overall direction we are going. But still, so much promise for this team that ended a regular season improved but with significant underachievement. I was thinking about why. My thoughts went to the first few years under Lemonis where, despite lem's short-comings that became very obvious, we were elite for three seasons until it all came crashing down after 21. Might the reverse be happening now? Could at least part of our issues be, despite a deep roster, that we are suffering from the residual of our previous coaching staff and have to get through 'de-Lemonisization' before we really get where we need to be?

Other thoughts?

greenbean.sixpack · Monday at 9:18 AM

significant underachievement? Our best pitcher was out most of the year and we’re going to host a regional and have an RPI of 12. Yes underachieved, but certainly not significantly. Significant underachievement would be LSU.

patdog · Monday at 9:22 AM

greenbean.sixpack said:
significant underachievement? Our best pitcher was out most of the year and we’re going to host a regional and have an RPI of 12. Yes underachieved, but certainly not significantly. Significant underachievement would be LSU.

I get that. But at some point you have to overcome injuries. Everybody has injuries, especially pitchers. I sure didn't feel sorry for Mississippi when their #1 pitcher missed the season. And I didn't feel sorry for Texas A&M when their #1 pitcher missed the series vs us. There's definitely a lot of good things to point to this season. But for the most part, pitching wasn't one of them. We needed someone to step up and no one did.

thekimmer · Monday at 9:23 AM

I view significant underachievement as not performing up to what you were projected to be. LSU was a nuclear disaster. Yes we are going to host but we were projected to be a national seed. We lost six straight SEC home games. I am not saying we were terrible. I said we were improved and I was happy with our direction. As someone also mentioned, pitching was not really our biggest issue. To that end, I think our biggest issue was between the ears.

Villagedawg · Monday at 9:25 AM

Pitching.

DoggieDaddy13 · Monday at 9:34 AM

Sorry, but you don't overcome pitching injuries unless you got a roster with 4 or more stud starting pitchers and half dozen stud relievers and a couple of stud closers.

That's baseball.

We have to recruit mo and betta pitching.

The real disappointment is getting swept at home. We win two of those 6 mid season losses, hells- even one, and we are in the top 8.

needed to win two against Tennessee - but if I remember that series was more of a hitting issue than a pitching issue for us. Sometimes your batters tighten up or they just go cold.

That's baseball.

I am still holding judgement until our last out of the season. We have a lot of good pieces, probably not enough to make the CWS, but you never know what might happen...

Baseball is a funny game.

theoriginalSALTYdog · Monday at 9:42 AM

DoggieDaddy13 said:
Sorry, but you don't overcome pitching injuries unless you got a roster with 4 or more stud starting pitchers and half dozen stud relievers and a couple of stud closers.

That's baseball.

We have to recruit mo and betta pitching.

The real disappointment is getting swept at home. We win two of those 6 mid season losses, hells- even one, and we are in the top 8.

needed to win two against Tennessee - but if I remember that series was more of a hitting issue than a pitching issue for us. Sometimes your batter tighten up or they just go cold.

That's baseball.

I am still holding judgement until our last out of the season. We have a lot of good pieces, probably not enough to make the CWS, but you never know what might happen...

Baseball is a funny game.

You are indeed correct that hitting was the issue against UT and to a certain extent against UGA. We just couldn't get the key hits. We had about a three week stretch where we struggled offensively. The bullpen has been inconsistent much of the year however. We've got some guys that look great one week and look like **** the next. Just no consistency other than Miller.

TrueMaroonGrind · Monday at 9:47 AM

The biggest disappointment to me was the lack of performance from newcomers and especially the older bullpen arms from the portal. Teel has been a complete and utter failure. Catcher and shortstop also haven’t been good enough. The veteran arms we brought in to fill the gap this year just haven’t gotten it done. Too inconsistent.

The freshman have really impressed(Bauer, Millerand Gleason) for freshmen. They are going to be great for us next year.

We are so close to being great. Just had too many disappointments plus injury to make it happen. It could still be an awesome postseason if a few people figure it out.

Seinfeld · Monday at 9:47 AM

When we look back on this season, I think it’s going to be crystal clear that pitching was a big letdown. Did losing McPherson hurt? Yes, and has pitching been awful as a whole? Of course not

However, here are the things we were all saying at the beginning of the year.

Really need a 3rd guy amongst Stone, Billingsley, Foster, and Sweeney to step up. Stone’s battled at times, but he’s also struggled a lot, and the rest have been a disaster

Really need a few bullpen arms to distance themselves from the rest of the pack. A few have had moments of success, but the bullpen as a whole has been largely inconsistent

Really need a closer, and we never found one

Again, pitching hasn’t been terrible by any means, but I just don’t feel like many guys got better as the season progressed which is disappointing

patdog · Monday at 9:49 AM

DoggieDaddy13 said:
Sorry, but you don't overcome pitching injuries unless you got a roster with 4 or more stud starting pitchers and half dozen stud relievers and a couple of stud closers.

That's baseball.

We have to recruit mo and betta pitching.

The real disappointment is getting swept at home. We win two of those 6 mid season losses, hells- even one, and we are in the top 8.

needed to win two against Tennessee - but if I remember that series was more of a hitting issue than a pitching issue for us. Sometimes your batter tighten up or they just go cold.

That's baseball.

I am still holding judgement until our last out of the season. We have a lot of good pieces, probably not enough to make the CWS, but you never know what might happen...

Baseball is a funny game.

You'll never fully compensate for losing your #1 starter, but there's no excuse for starting pitching to be such a shambles as it is right now. Heck, if anything, they did OK the first couple weeks with McPherson out and got worse as the season progressed. There's no excuse for that.

The Peeper · Monday at 9:50 AM

thekimmer said:
We lost six straight SEC home games.

and won only 3 of the last 9 conference games too

Dogdazey · Monday at 9:51 AM

I know everyone is down on the pitching. And in many of the games, rightfully so. The walks were not a good look this season, but and I know there's always a but. But Valincus, McPherson (before the injury) were elite. If McPherson doesn't go down, i think we are having a totally different conversation right now. You have 1a and 1b, with Stone going on Sunday. With that you nave one of the best weekend rotations in the nation.

Next year, as long as there isn't an exodus, we will have 4-5 really really good SEC Weekend pitchers. If we get a few bullpen arms, the pitching staff will be top tier.

We have a few holes to fill in the lineup next year. Catcher being a top notch priority. I'm not sure about Shortstop. I would not dislike to upgrade there.

Faustdog · Monday at 9:54 AM

thekimmer said:
First let me say I am pleased with the overall direction we are going…

The direction doesn’t appear to be all that different from where we were going.

TrueMaroonGrind · Monday at 10:01 AM

Faustdog said:
The direction doesn’t appear to be all that different from where we were going.

Clean your screen dawg

Perd Hapley · Monday at 10:02 AM

patdog said:
I get that. But at some point you have to overcome injuries. Everybody has injuries, especially pitchers.

Not everyone loses their #1 starter for the entire conference schedule.

patdog said:
I sure didn't feel sorry for Mississippi when their #1 pitcher missed the season.

Me either. But look what happened to them. It cost them a regional host, no question. They felt the pain from it just as we did.

patdog said:
And I didn't feel sorry for Texas A&M when their #1 pitcher missed the series vs us.

Me either. For all intents and purposes, ours missed the series, too.

patdog said:
There's definitely a lot of good things to point to this season. But for the most part, pitching wasn't one of them.

Final conference only stats:

5th in Team ERA
2nd in strikeouts
5th in HR allowed
7th in WHIP
9th in Walks

Walks were the weakest area, but statistically we were still solidly middle of the pack even there. Those are all very good numbers for a staff that, again, didn’t have it’s #1 starter for 90% of SEC play.

patdog said:
We needed someone to step up and no one did.

Valincius didn’t step up? 9th in the league in ERA, Tied for 3rd in WHIP. Tied for 5th in innings pitched. Those are legit #1 SEC starter numbers from a dude who was supposed to be our Saturday guy.

This team had some bad luck. Finishing 5th in ERA, 2nd-4th in all relevant offensive categories, but 9th in the standings…..there’s not much other explanation. 30 games is a pretty miniscule sample size in baseball. There’s still plenty of room for the law of averages to help us out in the postseason.

MSUDC11-2.0 · Monday at 10:07 AM

McPherson getting hurt changed a lot. But I think generally speaking we went into the year believing we had a good offense (which we do) and the thinking on pitching was “well, we’re unproven but talented so surely someone will figure it out”. And it’s May 18th and we are still trying to figure a lot out on the mound.

PBRME · Monday at 10:10 AM

Villagedawg said:
Hitting.

Corrected that for you. We put up great numbers against inferior pitching. When it came time to nut up against top teams our offense disappeared.

maroonmania · Monday at 10:44 AM

This team was a real enigma. In SEC stats ONLY (if I read correctly on the SEC sports site) for the season we were 3rd in runs scored in the league, 2nd in batting average, 5th in ERA, 3rd in runs allowed, and 5th in fielding percentage YET we somehow finished in 8th place. THAT is difficult to do when all of that is factored in. Biggest issue is that we won a lot of lopsided games but dropped EVERY competitive game with the teams that finished in the top half of the conference. The only close games we won were all against the dregs of the conference and OM. I know stats are for losers but no way this team should have finished 8th with the conference stats they have.

JackShephard · Monday at 10:51 AM

No 3rd starter, no shut down arms in the pen, hitters all streak at the same time in both directions.

60sdog · Monday at 11:44 AM

I think it is often overlooked how relatively weak our non-conference schedule was this year, and how it inflated some of our pitching and hitting stats.

It included the likes of: Hofstra (3 games), Delaware (3), Lipscomb (3), JSU (1), Alcorn (1), Nicholls (1) and Grambling (1).

24% of our schedule.

patdog · Monday at 12:09 PM

Perd Hapley said:
Not everyone loses their #1 starter for the entire conference schedule.

Me either. But look what happened to them. It cost them a regional host, no question. They felt the pain from it just as we did.

Me either. For all intents and purposes, ours missed the series, too.

Final conference only stats:

5th in Team ERA
2nd in strikeouts
5th in HR allowed
7th in WHIP
9th in Walks

Walks were the weakest area, but statistically we were still solidly middle of the pack even there. Those are all very good numbers for a staff that, again, didn’t have it’s #1 starter for 90% of SEC play.

Valincius didn’t step up? 9th in the league in ERA, Tied for 3rd in WHIP. Tied for 5th in innings pitched. Those are legit #1 SEC starter numbers from a dude who was supposed to be our Saturday guy.

This team had some bad luck. Finishing 5th in ERA, 2nd-4th in all relevant offensive categories, but 9th in the standings…..there’s not much other explanation. 30 games is a pretty miniscule sample size in baseball. There’s still plenty of room for the law of averages to help us out in the postseason.

Valincius was ineligible to step up since he was already our #2 (or co-#1) starter. We needed a Stone, Foster, Billingsley to step up and at least be a serviceable starter. And they’ve been terrible.

maroonmania · Monday at 12:34 PM

60sdog said:
I think it is often overlooked how relatively weak our non-conference schedule was this year, and how it inflated some of our pitching and hitting stats.

It included the likes of: Hofstra (3 games), Delaware (3), Lipscomb (3), JSU (1), Alcorn (1), Nicholls (1) and Grambling (1).

24% of our schedule.

Yep, that's why I really only looked at conference stats. I fully agree though that we have to cut down to no more than ONE SWAC game per year. If we replaced 2 of those SWAC games with teams between 100-200 RPI, then our RPI would probably be a couple of spots higher than it is now. Playing teams down around 300 RPI is just an anchor.

Pak Drescott · Monday at 12:38 PM

Roster management could have been better. Vytas and Bevis have been 2 of our better hitters in conference play and we didn't see much of either until injuries to Stallman and Teel got them in the lineup. Also not sure why Wyers never got much of a shot at SS. Guy hit over .400 last year.

Some of the bullpen decisions have been head scratchers as well (using Bauer and Davis in games where we are up big)

JackShephard · Monday at 12:53 PM

60sdog said:
I think it is often overlooked how relatively weak our non-conference schedule was this year, and how it inflated some of our pitching and hitting stats.

It included the likes of: Hofstra (3 games), Delaware (3), Lipscomb (3), JSU (1), Alcorn (1), Nicholls (1) and Grambling (1).

24% of our schedule.

That's every year. We also played UCLA, USMx2, Tulane, Arizona State, VT....

Villagedawg · Monday at 2:03 PM

PBRME said:
Corrected that for you. We put up great numbers against inferior pitching. When it came time to nut up against top teams our offense disappeared.

In the series we got swept we scored 9, 1, 5, 5, 2, 2. Against Texas, Auburn, and A&M we scored 1, 7, 6, 10, 4, 2, 18, 9, and 6. (87) We won 3 of those games. Out of those 15 games we scored plenty enough to win 9. One (4) could go either way. Had it not been for some big offensive performances we would have probably lost the 18-11 A&M game too.

Over that same span we gave up 10, 3, 8, 6, 6, 7, 3, 4, 11, 3, 5, 13, 11, 11, and 7. (108) That isn't lack of hitting. Outside Valincius, we were pretty bad to middle of the road. Situational hitting could have been better in those other 5, but pitching let us down consistently.

maroonmania · Monday at 2:52 PM

Villagedawg said:
In the series we got swept we scored 9, 1, 5, 5, 2, 2. Against Texas, Auburn, and A&M we scored 1, 7, 6, 10, 4, 2, 18, 9, and 6. (87) We won 3 of those games. Out of those 15 games we scored plenty enough to win 9. One (4) could go either way. Had it not been for some big offensive performances we would have probably lost the 18-11 A&M game too.

Over that same span we gave up 10, 3, 8, 6, 6, 7, 3, 4, 11, 3, 5, 13, 11, 11, and 7. (108) That isn't lack of hitting. Outside Valincius, we were pretty bad to middle of the road. Situational hitting could have been better in those other 5, but pitching let us down consistently.

That's why I'm saying that this team is an enigma and had to work hard to lose the number of games they did in league play. Its difficult to match up game scores where you are 3rd in the league in runs scored and 3rd in the league in runs allowed but somehow finish 8th! But its just like this past weekend. If we had scored the 9 runs we got on Friday on Saturday we would have won on Saturday but instead when we held down A&M to their lowest output (7 runs) it was the same game we got our lowest output (6 runs). Seems to have been like that all year, when we win we usually win decisively but lost most competitive games.

Maroon13 · Monday at 2:59 PM

They just weren't as good as they were hyped up to be. But let me qualify that by saying SEC baseball is tougher than SEC football. So while state has a very good baseball team, they're still not a national championship caliber team as they were hyped up to be.

The state fanboy writers and Podcasts are just so frustrated with football and basketball that they had to give the fans some hype to keep the wheels from completely coming off the wagon. That's my theory. Maybe they really did believe new coach a bunch of transfers from Virginia and other transfers from here and there we're gonna win a national championship. But you could see at USM, they were good, but not great.

Maroon13 · Monday at 3:01 PM

But I will also add, again the SEC baseball schedule was very tough. State could possibly get a good draw in the NCAA tournament and go all the way to the college World Series. Or they could lose in a super. Just depends on their draw and when they match up with other SEC teams. Or Georgia Tech.

paindonthurt · Monday at 3:04 PM

greenbean.sixpack said:
significant underachievement? Our best pitcher was out most of the year and we’re going to host a regional and have an RPI of 12. Yes underachieved, but certainly not significantly. Significant underachievement would be LSU.

This. We didn't under achieve.

Our fans started screaming Natty as soon as BOC was hired.

The GD season isn't over yet. We are likely gonna host a regional. Have a good shot at winning it and possibly making the CWS. But our fans are lathering up the vagisil like a bunch of whiny k unts.

patdog · Monday at 3:04 PM

maroonmania said:
That's why I'm saying that this team is an enigma and had to work hard to lose the number of games they did in league play. Its difficult to match up game scores where you are 3rd in the league in runs scored and 3rd in the league in runs allowed but somehow finish 8th! But its just like this past weekend. If we had scored the 9 runs we got on Friday on Saturday we would have won on Saturday but instead when we held down A&M to their lowest output (7 runs) it was the same game we got our lowest output (6 runs). Seems to have been like that all year, when we win we usually win decisively but lost most competitive games.

Actually 6th in runs scored and 5th in runs allowed in conference games. But still, that shouldn't translate to finishing 8th.

Maroon13 said:
But I will also add, again the SEC baseball schedule was very tough. State could possibly get a good draw in the NCAA tournament and go all the way to the college World Series. Or they could lose in a super. Just depends on their draw and when they match up with other SEC teams. Or Georgia Tech.

Actually, teams we played were 146-152, thanks to getting all of the bottom 3 (which was 9 of our 16 wins - we were 7-14 vs the rest of the SEC).

onewoof · Monday at 3:11 PM

you have a subset of an unrealistic fanbase that saw how good this team COULD play, and expected them to play that well all season

some folks actually believe you can flip a team like you can flip a cheap house in a few months

PBRME · Monday at 3:12 PM

Pitching is pretty watered down in college. You have to score runs. The amount of runners we lob this season was embarrassing. You combine that with a pitching staff giving free passes it leads to disappointment. In half our losses we scored 4 runs or less. The bulk of those were 2 runs or under.

maroonmania · Monday at 3:24 PM

patdog said:
Actually 6th in runs scored and 5th in runs allowed in conference games. But still, that shouldn't translate to finishing 8th.

Actually, teams we played were 146-152, thanks to getting all of the bottom 3 (which was 9 of our 16 wins - we were 7-14 vs the rest of the SEC).

You are correct. I thought I had hit the conference tab but apparently did not. But even 6th and 5th in each should make it difficult to finish 8th but more understandable than 3rd. I went back and fixed my earlier post and we still finished higher in every statistical category than we actually placed in the league.

onewoof · Monday at 3:31 PM

PBRME said:
Pitching is pretty watered down in college. You have to score runs. The amount of runners we lob this season was embarrassing. You combine that with a pitching staff giving free passes it leads to disappointment. In half our losses we scored 4 runs or less. The bulk of those were 2 runs or under.

I can think of 6 losses we had due to a damn passed ball. Insanity.

maroonmania · Monday at 3:37 PM

onewoof said:
I can think of 6 losses we had due to a damn passed ball. Insanity.

Yep, we had a lot of wtf type moments relative to a catcher not being able to catch a ball that hits him right in the mitt, baserunners making stupid outs on the bases, outfielders not catching an easy fly ball and so on.

patdog · Monday at 3:38 PM

maroonmania said:
You are correct. I thought I had hit the conference tab but apparently did not. But even 6th and 5th in each should make it difficult to finish 8th but more understandable than 3rd. I went back and fixed my earlier post and we still finished higher in every statistical category than we actually placed in the league.

Yeah. Statistically, we should be in the top 4 or 5. Instead we're 2 games back of that in 8th.

Wesson Bulldog · Monday at 3:42 PM

Seinfeld said:
When we look back on this season, I think it’s going to be crystal clear that pitching was a big letdown. Did losing McPherson hurt? Yes, and has pitching been awful as a whole? Of course not

However, here are the things we were all saying at the beginning of the year.

Really need a 3rd guy amongst Stone, Billingsley, Foster, and Sweeney to step up. Stone’s battled at times, but he’s also struggled a lot, and the rest have been a disaster

Really need a few bullpen arms to distance themselves from the rest of the pack. A few have had moments of success, but the bullpen as a whole has been largely inconsistent

Really need a closer, and we never found one

Again, pitching hasn’t been terrible by any means, but I just don’t feel like many guys got better as the season progressed which is disappointing

Stone fights himself more than any other pitcher in the league. He is his own stumbling block.

She Mate Me · Monday at 3:44 PM

I gotta say, IMHO this horse has been beaten to death. What more is there to say about the season we just had that hasn't already been said multiple times and multiple ways hereabouts?

We weren't as good as we thought we were after the Ole Miss sweep, but if three more games had "that's baseball"ed our way everybody would feel very different about the season.

On to the postseason. We've got a lot of good players, maybe they'll get on a roll...

maroonmania · Monday at 4:00 PM

onewoof said:
you have a subset of an unrealistic fanbase that saw how good this team COULD play, and expected them to play that well all season

some folks actually believe you can flip a team like you can flip a cheap house in a few months

This is not accurate. Everyone involved with college baseball had us as a preseason Top 8 team in the country. Some had us as high as 3 or 4. This team has a lot of talent and has shown that often but could never pull it all together. I am not going to accept the excuse though that our expectations were too high or the old 'we had a first year coach' excuse. Heck, BOC is the most highly experienced, highly decorated coach we've ever hired in any sport in an era where players can instantly transfer and teams can be built in an instant. Heck, baseball is the most individualized team sport there is. Ultimately, this team just didn't come together and get things done the way most thought it would. But, unless you win the SEC, post-season results are really all that matter in baseball.

Leeshouldveflanked · Monday at 6:52 PM

thekimmer said:
First let me say I am pleased with the overall direction we are going. But still, so much promise for this team that ended a regular season improved but with significant underachievement. I was thinking about why. My thoughts went to the first few years under Lemonis where, despite lem's short-comings that became very obvious, we were elite for three seasons until it all came crashing down after 21. Might the reverse be happening now? Could at least part of our issues be, despite a deep roster, that we are suffering from the residual of our previous coaching staff and have to get through 'de-Lemonisization' before we really get where we need to be?

Other thoughts?

Weak up the middle… no closer…. bad situational hitting….over managing the games.

What was the problem with this baseball team?...

All-Conference

All-American

Heisman

All-Conference

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All-American

Heisman

Heisman

Sophomore

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All-Conference

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Heisman

All-Conference

Senior

Senior

Senior

Heisman

Senior

Senior

Senior

All-Conference

Senior

All-Conference

All-Conference

All-Conference

Heisman

Heisman

All-Conference

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Heisman

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All-Conference

Heisman

Senior

All-American