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Mark Pope 46-26 63.8% after 2 seasons at UK

MichaelGray

MichaelGray

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20MRoster said:
Year 3 will be the biggest regression. About 80% of the fanbase at least seems to have a grasp on how ugly next year is going to be. The rest are in for a rude awakening.

Also, we don't know if he will be fired for a **** year. Too much up in the air with the AD direction, and much internal corruption at the institution.
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Year 3 predictions are assumptions, none of us truly know until we see them play a good team. I honestly didn't think year 1 was going to be worth a ****, yeah they had some bad losses but they beat 9 or 10 top 25 teams, ended up a 3 seed & made the sweet 16, they overachieved. I know this, last year sucked because of no PG, next year has 2 that can get to the rim, that's something to build on. I think it's more like 50/50 or 60/40 with the fanbase, go look at FB in "Pope's Cats" join the group just for ***** & giggles, there's so many different posts on a daily basis, good & bad, then read the hundreds of comments, way more positive than negative. I'm not assuming anything about next year but I will say this, they have a chance to be better than year 1 at the very least, Pope does know how to run offense when he has a true PG.
 
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megablue

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Dr.LutherSan said:
You can’t villainize the players for wanting to maximize their worth. Other programs are having no issues with the new landscape.
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I understand, of course, but my intent is not to "villainize" players at all. I TOTALLY understand they're chasing top dollar. In doing so, I cannot help but believe their focus on working hard and sacrificing to do what's best for the team to WIN games and earn a Championship is diminished. There is a change in focus is my only point. I believe that makes it harder, although certainly not impossible, to regularly and consistently win BIG ... not to mention the budget disparities that might exist between programs.
 
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KentuckyWildcats74

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I do think Pope is capable of winning championships here, but he might not get to stick around long enough to find out. I think his first year was a decent year, but I can't argue last year was a failure on all levels. It looks like he may need to over achieve next year just to keep his job, but I do think it is possible.
 
BlueSince92

BlueSince92

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Beatle Bum said:
I loved parts of both of those first two years, but roster was not the issue. His second year did not have much in roster improvement. It was more experience in the system. Something NIL does not really provide.
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In terms of roster improvement his second year had Jamal Mashburn adding 13 and 7!!! How he did it is kind of a distraction anyway when the conversation is what two-year percentage he racked.
 
Dr.LutherSan

Dr.LutherSan

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Sep 6, 2019
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UKGrad24 said:
It’s amazing to me how off some of this stuff is.

Pope is NOT YOUNG. He is not EARLY IN HIS CAREER. lol.

Why are you comparing Pope to guys on that list? Pope is working on his SECOND DECADE COACHING. His 2nd -4th years in coaching he was terrible for UK standards. He is still TERRIBLE for UK standards. He’s the same, he doesn’t change.

Some of this stuff is just flat out low rent nonsense.
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It's grasping at straws.
 
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megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
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For reference and long-term perspective, here are the winning percentages while at UK for all coaches, beginning with Rupp, for their UK career and their first two (2) years here:

Rupp.........876-190 82.18%.......30-5 85.71% (Southland Conference)
Hall............297-100 74.81%.......33-21 61.11%
Sutton.........88-39 69.29%.......50-15 76.92%
Pitino........219-50 81.41%.......36-20 64.29%
Smith........263-83 76.01%.......63-13 82.89%
Gillispie......40-27 59.70%.......40-27 59.70%
Calipari....410-123 76.92%........64-12 84.21%
Pope...........46-26 63.89%.......46-26 63.89%

Totals......2239-638 77.82%....362-139 72.26%
 
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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mjj_2K said:
To be clear, because I don't think it completely is, the Smith in question is Dean Smith.

Dean Smith got the UNC job because UNC was facing major probation. And UNC was not what we think of as UNC yet. They won a title in 57 but they wouldn't really become the premier ACC program until the late 60's.

Izzo got Michigan State because they weren't really an elite program (Magic for 2 years, then not much else) and they decided to keep it in-house when Judd Heathcote retired.

And really, the idea of the Pitino and Cal style coach as a sort of mercenary for hire is fairly modern. Coaches always moved around to some extent, but the highest-bidder/brightest spotlight thing is much more modern.
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In the 6 years prior to Smith getting the job Frank McGuire had gone 126-27 82.4% with a National Championship in '57. UNC had gone 19-4 the season before Smith's debut. The probation was only a one year post season ban which Smith was nowhere close to qualifying for anyway from what I can find. If you have more info feel free to link it. It's not like he took over a struggling program by any means.

Jud Heathcote had gone 126-56 69.2% while making the tourney 5 times in the six years before Izzo. Heathcote had gone 22-6 in his final season. This also was not an example of a struggling downtrodden program.
 
paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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TFCat11 said:
Meh, if you want to impress me, run all of those coaches winning percentages for the first 12 years of their career 🤣

Oh, and remember, NONE of those coaches could recruit with NIL!

As a bonus, let’s see you post their percentage of recruiting versus signing 5 star players during any 12 year stretch of their careers, compared to Pope’s😂

Son, go outside and play with a wasp nest, you are not ready to play in the deep end just yet!
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What an utter goofball you are. If you want to look at other factors or stats there is no one stopping you from doing your own work. I am not a totally negative incessant whiner so why would I seek out things to help you do that?
 
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KyLegacyBBN

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Jan 12, 2005
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Better List. 2024 new coaches.


  1. Dusty May — Michigan
    • Year 1: 29–6 (.828)
    • Year 2: 29–7 (.806)
    • Combined: 58–13 (.817)
  2. Pat Kelsey — Louisville
    • Year 1: 27–8 (.771)
    • Year 2: 27–8 (.771)
    • Combined: 54–16 (.771)
  3. Kevin Young — BYU
    • Year 1: 26–10 (.722)
    • Year 2: 26–10 (.722)
    • Combined: 52–20 (.722)
  4. Mark Pope — Kentucky
    • Year 1: 24–12 (.667)
    • Year 2: 22–14 (.611)
    • Combined: 46–26 (.639)
  5. John Calipari — Arkansas
    • Year 1: 22–14 (.611)
    • Year 2: 22–14 (.611)
    • Combined: 44–28 (.611)
  6. Danny Sprinkle — Washington
    • Year 1: 18–14 (.563)
    • Year 2: 18–14 (.563)
    • Combined: 36–28 (.563)
 
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Beatle Bum

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
42,034
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BlueSince92 said:
In terms of roster improvement his second year had Jamal Mashburn adding 13 and 7!!! How he did it is kind of a distraction anyway when the conversation is what two-year percentage he racked.
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My bad. I forgot Mashburn came in year 2. For some reasons thought it was year 3.
 
paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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SlowWalkerSTL said:
Cal not listed 😂. Wonder why. Doesn’t fit the agenda?
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It was clearly stated that these were the ones with worse records their first two years at the school they won their title. Cal did not fit that criteria along with eight others. Thirteen of them did fit the criteria. Do you not read what is stated or are you just unable to understand a clearly stated and simple concept?
 
UKGrad24

UKGrad24

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Beatle Bum said:
That exists but acting like Pope should have been fired after year two is shear stupidity and that is what many here have advocated for. That is why the rest of us get so tired of the stupid redundancy. Give it a rest and let’s see what happens.
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The reason is not simply a year 2 coaching record. It’s not ridiculous the only ridiculous thing is how some don’t seem to comprehend anything past a coach in his second year “doesn’t get fired”.

First of all in the NIL era at serious programs you are going to see that way more in the future than you did before NIL. That “2nd year” can also mean 20-40 million dollar payrolls. Some programs in football and especially basketball will pull the plug faster.

And so you are also other factors now. Within that payroll, what does TRAJECTORY look like? What does the coaches history say, what is his recruiting look like when taken a deeper dive from the inside, what is he building a reputation for, how respectable are his losses, where is the show HEADED.

pope shows only one thing when taking in the entire picture. A steep DECLINE.

When you think about also the guy that hired him was essentially fired, and has a history of making hires that have low ceilings and bombs outs…

You add it together from a PROFESSIONAL standpoint, which is what this league is, and you’ll see how firing him in year two is MORE than acceptable at a place like Kentucky. Not to mention his reputation around the league and within the organization itself.

It isn’t happening and even though the administration to some degree is behind the years, and doesn’t want to have to pay more out in settlement, it very much so stands to reason that firing this guy in year two is not only acceptable but a progressive approach to where we are in college athletics.

To not understand that and continue to think people are out of bounds for even thinking about firing pope in year 2 shows an incredible lack of understanding about how these things work. It’s ridiculous to even keep suggesting something is wrong with it. It’s a comedy act.
 
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UKortho

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UKGrad24 said:
The reason is not simply a year 2 coaching record. It’s not ridiculous the only ridiculous thing is how some don’t seem to comprehend anything past a coach in his second year “doesn’t get fired”.

First of all in the NIL era at serious programs you are going to see that way more in the future than you did before NIL. That “2nd year” can also mean 20-40 million dollar payrolls. Some programs in football and especially basketball will pull the plug faster.

And so you are also other factors now. Within that payroll, what does TRAJECTORY look like? What does the coaches history say, what is his recruiting look like when taken a deeper dive from the inside, what is he building a reputation for, how respectable are his losses, where is the show HEADED.

pope shows only one thing when taking in the entire picture. A steep DECLINE.

When you think about also the guy that hired him was essentially fired, and has a history of making hires that have low ceilings and bombs outs…

You add it together from a PROFESSIONAL standpoint, which is what this league is, and you’ll see how firing him in year two is MORE than acceptable at a place like Kentucky. Not to mention his reputation around the league and within the organization itself.

It isn’t happening and even though the administration to some degree is behind the years, and doesn’t want to have to pay more out in settlement, it very much so stands to reason that firing this guy in year two is not only acceptable but a progressive approach to where we are in college athletics.

To not understand that and continue to think people are out of bounds for even thinking about firing pope in year 2 shows an incredible lack of understanding about how these things work. It’s ridiculous to even keep suggesting something is wrong with it. It’s a comedy act.
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I agree. I don’t need stats from other coachs to see that Pope is in over his head. His resume is all that matters.
 
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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UKortho said:
I agree. I don’t need stats from other coachs to see that Pope is in over his head. His resume is all that matters.
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Comparison and context are not allowed if it doesn't support incessant whining and complaining? You'd likely have said the same thing about all these other coaches at the same point based on resume and you would have been wrong. I have not made any predictions or claims about how his career works out going forward but I have provided considerable evidence that it is not set in stone as so many insist on believing.
 
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RedwoodHigh

RedwoodHigh

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UKortho said:
I agree. I don’t need stats from other coachs to see that Pope is in over his head. His resume is all that matters.
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All that matters- is that Pope is the Ky Coach now & will be for at least 2 more years.
Like the Mother in Law that is a real test of your tolerance - she’s the Grandmother of your children & nothing you can do about it.
 
paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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RunninRichie said:
Mark Pope is Lute Olson we just need to give him some time!




Mark Pope has been coaching basketball for 15 years.
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Are you really this ignorant or do you just rely on constant dishonesty to push your agenda? Pope has been a Head Coach 11 seasons not 15. Lute Olson had been a head coach for 12 seasons after his second season at Arizona.

I'll state this yet again. I have not made any predictions or claims about how Pope's career works out going forward but I have provided considerable evidence that it is not set in stone as so many insist on believing.
 
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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Richie, I guess you deserve credit for having a decent sense of humor since you are able to laugh at the fact that you made a fool of yourself. You inaccurately said Pope had been coaching 15 years when it was actually 11 and also the insinuation that he had been coaching longer than Olson at the comparative mark was also dead wrong. I'll assume it was just an error based on ignorance as opposed to being flat out dishonest.
 
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B

Beatle Bum

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
42,034
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113
UKGrad24 said:
The reason is not simply a year 2 coaching record. It’s not ridiculous the only ridiculous thing is how some don’t seem to comprehend anything past a coach in his second year “doesn’t get fired”.

First of all in the NIL era at serious programs you are going to see that way more in the future than you did before NIL. That “2nd year” can also mean 20-40 million dollar payrolls. Some programs in football and especially basketball will pull the plug faster.

And so you are also other factors now. Within that payroll, what does TRAJECTORY look like? What does the coaches history say, what is his recruiting look like when taken a deeper dive from the inside, what is he building a reputation for, how respectable are his losses, where is the show HEADED.

pope shows only one thing when taking in the entire picture. A steep DECLINE.

When you think about also the guy that hired him was essentially fired, and has a history of making hires that have low ceilings and bombs outs…

You add it together from a PROFESSIONAL standpoint, which is what this league is, and you’ll see how firing him in year two is MORE than acceptable at a place like Kentucky. Not to mention his reputation around the league and within the organization itself.

It isn’t happening and even though the administration to some degree is behind the years, and doesn’t want to have to pay more out in settlement, it very much so stands to reason that firing this guy in year two is not only acceptable but a progressive approach to where we are in college athletics.

To not understand that and continue to think people are out of bounds for even thinking about firing pope in year 2 shows an incredible lack of understanding about how these things work. It’s ridiculous to even keep suggesting something is wrong with it. It’s a comedy act.
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Well, Mitch was not fired and his status is irrelevant. Pope was not going to be fired in year 2 in any era. His first team won more top 25 games than any team in history, I believe and despite devastating injuries to starters and key backups went to the Sweet 16 after playing what has been described as the most difficult conference in NCAA history. All that after picking up a team with no returning players.

UK could not hire a good coach if they fired Pope after 2 years with Pope’s record and no off court issues. No coach worth their salt would step into such a cesspool seeing how unreasonably Pope was treated. It’s just elementary. Year two went badly, but it also had injury issues that must be considered.

in THIS NIL era, there is no AD with any sense who was going to fire Pope. You have stated nothing to change that fact. And, it is a fact. To not understand that is not not understand how things actually work in the college sports world rather than on fan message boards.
 
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Ash Williams

Ash Williams

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Aug 3, 2022
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TheApostleSaulSmith said:
Idk, fellow Pope bashers. I know it’s a different era and some of those programs are way below UK but still there are a lot of big names here. I’m trying to come up with a counter to this and I can’t. Good thread, OP. You’ve done your research and made an appeal for Pope that doesn’t appeal to emotion or his history as an alum.

Alright you’ve convinced me. A year 3 is acceptable. I will lessen my b*tching. That’s my stance until another Pope whiff or public appearance after which I’ll immediately go back to bashing
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Did any of those coaches go 0 for 14 in big name recruits after year two?
 
UKGrad24

UKGrad24

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paulcalhoun_rivals397471 said:
Comparison and context are not allowed if it doesn't support incessant whining and complaining? You'd likely have said the same thing about all these other coaches at the same point based on resume and you would have been wrong. I have not made any predictions or claims about how his career works out going forward but I have provided considerable evidence that it is not set in stone as so many insist on believing.
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The statistics you point out are totally nonsensical. You are leaving out the most important variables which means those stats are completely void of context and don’t fit inside anything that would be acceptable from any sort of academic standpoint. I hope you understand that. You’re wanting to ignore those variables and throw everything in a vacuum. That’s not how this works.

You cannot compare Pope to a coach who’s been coaching for 3 years. You can’t compare Pope to a guy that was coaching in 1950. What you’re doing is bastardizing data interpretation and trying to simplify a situation down to what you want it to be. That’s not how any of this works.

You can continue to do that, but your conclusions are incorrect and faulty and it’s very easy for anyone who knows anything about these methods to understand. I’m not sure you are aware of how a research is conducted, because what you posted is about as wrong as you can do this. And that’s the nicest way I can put it.
 
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Noledynasty2490

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RedwoodHigh said:
With extra game - Pope will win 26+ games this year including 2 NCAA games & 1 SEC Tournament game
we are DEEP at crucial positions & have a battle to see who starts across the board.
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Lol, I'm not as negative on the roster as some but there's no way you're predicting 26 wins with the CURRENT ROSTER. Our backup guards are a out of top 100 true freshman and a role player on an 8th place WCC team. Now, get Mom, and we could be talking. But right now, cmon lol
 

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paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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UKGrad24 said:
The statistics you point out are totally nonsensical. You are leaving out the most important variables which means those stats are completely void of context and don’t fit inside anything that would be acceptable from any sort of academic standpoint. I hope you understand that. You’re wanting to ignore those variables and throw everything in a vacuum. That’s not how this works.

You cannot compare Pope to a coach who’s been coaching for 3 years. You can’t compare Pope to a guy that was coaching in 1950. What you’re doing is bastardizing data interpretation and trying to simplify a situation down to what you want it to be. That’s not how any of this works.

You can continue to do that, but your conclusions are incorrect and faulty and it’s very easy for anyone who knows anything about these methods to understand. I’m not sure you are aware of how a research is conducted, because what you posted is about as wrong as you can do this. And that’s the nicest way I can put it.
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No one listed was coaching in 1950 nor the entire decade of the 50's for that matter. Everything you claim here is hogwash based on your inability to control your emotions in regards to Mark Pope.
 
RunninRichie

RunninRichie

Heisman
Sep 5, 2019
28,935
69,604
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471 said:
Richie, I guess you deserve credit for having a decent sense of humor since you are able to laugh at the fact that you made a fool of yourself. You inaccurately said Pope had been coaching 15 years when it was actually 11 and also the insinuation that he had been coaching longer than Olson at the comparative mark was also dead wrong. I'll assume it was just an error based on ignorance as opposed to being flat out dishonest.
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Pope has been "COACHING" since 2009. I said coaching, not head coaching. Lute Olson coached at Iowa for almost 10 years, before he got to Arizona. He made the NCAAT 5 times in a row, won the big ten, and went to the final four. Pope, coached at BYU and Utah Valley state. Where he never won more than 25 games, never won a conference title of any sort. Your ignorance knows no bounds, Paul. Keep the shilling up.
 
paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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RunninRichie said:
Pope has been "COACHING" since 2009. I said coaching, not head coaching. Lute Olson coached at Iowa for almost 10 years, before he got to Arizona. He made the NCAAT 5 times in a row, won the big ten, and went to the final four. Pope, coached at BYU and Utah Valley state. Where he never won more than 25 games, never won a conference title of any sort. Your ignorance knows no bounds, Paul. Keep the shilling up.
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What are you actually trying to claim I was ignorant about? Nobody considers years as an assistant when discussing the careers of head coaches. What Olson did at Iowa has no bearing what so ever on the facts I listed. Olson was also a HS coach for 13 years. Should I have counted that and said Olson had been a coach for 25 years after his second year at Arizona by your implied logic?
 
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